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| reality don |
 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: what is real? what is science? |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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i was looking for the answer to everything and i found the church of reality. 
seriously guys you have to check this site out. it claims to be an anti-religious religion, and they worship reality.
OK sounds good so far, but how do they define reality?
well i checked their FAQ and this is a direct quote
"Isn't Reality just science? Why do you want to stain science by lowering it to the level of a religion?
In pure science the universe is just stars exploding and rocks in space bumping into each other."
they've opened war on the church of scientology aswell haha. good because scientology is possibly on a par of ridiculousness with these guys.  |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 890
Location: Norway
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Church of Reality
That's.... about as wierd as it gets, lol. It's like... an atheist religion or something.
| From The Site wrote: |
How do you know that the Church of Reality won't become corrupt like all the other religions?
That's a very good question. The short answer is that we don't know that. It is definitely possible that the Church of Reality will become just another cult. But - there are a few differences that we are starting with that distinguish the Church of Reality from other religions.
First - the Church of Reality is about reality. Reality is more stable that a religion based on a fictional premise or lost books or books written by people which are supposed to be influenced by invisible deities. With fiction based religions - if the religion moves from one fiction to another - who is to say which is the better fiction. Reality is something you can always get back to. Reality is something that doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. The Church of Reality can stay true as long as it remembers its original mission.
Second - The Church of Reality isn't about any individual. It's about reality. So it's not something that is driven by a personality. No one is empowered by supernatural forces or otherwise spiritually endowed.
Third - The Principle of Self Scrutiny will help keep us on track and let us look at our progress and evaluate ourselves as objectively as possible so hat if we get off track we can correct ourselves and get back to where we should be. We are committed to doing the hard work and making sure that we are in fact successful and that we resist the paths of corruption.
The bottom line is - we are just going to have to try hard and hope for the best. |
| From The Site wrote: |
| The Church or Reality exists for the pursuit of the understanding of understanding. |
It doesn't sound bad, but what will it develop into? This is just too wierd, a religion based upon nothing supernatural or alien etc? Is it to even be considered a religion?
EDIT:
The Churchs' Hidden Agenda
Ahahaha^^
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
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It sounds almost like something cosmo would join.  As for scientology: it is the worst of the worst! If hell existed, L Ron Hubbard would be in it.
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long 
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Location: South Africa
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I guess if people can belong to a cult that believes jesus is on a spaceship and you go there if you commit suicide, they can believe in scientology.
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 1524
Location: Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
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| Obviously wrote: |
| I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long |
Proof of my maxim that people can and will believe just about anything.
Unfortunately the maxim means that there will also be people who believe that people should not be allowed to believe as they choose, but must be force to think as they insist is the only possible rational way.
My hope is that most people can see that it is better accept that this maxim is unalterable, and that we should love people for who they are. Granted this will certainly have limits in regards to what beliefs people can be allowed to act upon. Nevertheless it seems to me that tolerance is a worthwhile ideal to follow as far as is consistently possible.
_________________
See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com
Last edited by mitchellmckain on Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Obviously wrote: |
| I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long |
Why does it exist: Hubbard was an amoral genius. Why has is survived: it is heirarchical.
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| reality don |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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the reasons these (lets face it-crazy) churches exist and are larger than ever before is really quite simple.
1) ease of global communication: i think we can all agree that its easier to 'spread the faith' than it ever has been before.
2) they become ever more implausible(which means harder to prove one way or the other): people who gravitate towards these wacko beliefs simply want to be able to have absolute faith so that they dont have to be responsible for anything. the more crazy and modern the church is, generally the harder to disprove.
3) they avoid the mistakes they've seen other religions make: for example they become more vague. they've seen judaism, christianity etc all being slowly choked by the advancement of the general level of knowledge/awareness in the population. and so, eg. the church of reality believes in reality-as proved by science. a good theory in premise except when you read it, it becomes crystal clear they have NO IDEA about even the most basic science principles, and has simply become fanatical about 'reality' with no central focus. therefore making it easy to defend their vague belief in 'reality'. |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm aware of all this, the thing I don't get is why it has been allowed to prosper. In the US it's recognized as a religion, therefore it has also gotten the benefits religions get. If I'm not mistaking, if a cult reach a certain number of members, then it is allowed to be recognized as a religion? People in the cult of scientology get their minds raped with all kinds of wierd techniques and we sit by and watch it happen, allow it to happen. I think the reason why scientology has prospered for so long is because of overtolerance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "letting people make their own choices", but there's a line to be drawn. Not all people are capable of making the right choices. Reason for that can include: they are vulnerable, they are just plain stupid, they just want to try something new, they are handicapped etc, etc. When you join scientology, they make SURE you are pshycologically damaged enough to pay A LOT of money. They make SURE they can suck out every little life span and every little dollar you might have. For anyone trying to expose them as dangerous, they are killed.
Why the heck has this been allowed to prosper?
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| For anyone trying to expose them as dangerous, they are killed. |
Where did you here this?
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| reality don |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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| Quote: |
Proof of my maxim that people can and will believe just about anything.
Unfortunately the maxim means that there will also be people who believe that people should not be allowed to believe as they choose, but must be force to think as they insist is the only possible rational way.
My hope is that most people can see that it is better accept that this maxim is unalterable, and that we should love people for who they are. Granted this will certainly have limits in regards to what beliefs people can be allowed to act upon. Nevertheless it seems to me that tolerance is a worthwhile ideal to follow as far as is consistently possible. |
excellent point! and i agree completely. but what kind of society is this possible in? certainly not democracy, and definitely not communism (as it exists today).
| Quote: |
| If I'm not mistaking, if a cult reach a certain number of members, then it is allowed to be recognized as a religion? |
also completely true.
| Quote: |
| Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "letting people make their own choices", but there's a line to be drawn. Not all people are capable of making the right choices. Reason for that can include: they are vulnerable, they are just plain stupid, they just want to try something new, they are handicapped etc, |
so what do you suggest? who makes the choices for them?! you? me? a government?
please give me your views as i am extremely curious as to how you might deal with this situation? |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: Norway
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It's a though situation, I'll admit that. But one of the "rules" I live by is "everything in moderation." Always try to avoid extremes as good as you can. It's not right that people should be making choices for others, but rather help them understand, try and guide them. You can make suggestions and talk about the world, but ultimately the choice is theirs. If they don't understand, then there's nothing to do about it. You should try and help people, not force them to anything. That's probably also why I have no belief in any ideology  We're all different. We need to understand that and learn to accept it.
No extreme is good, be it intolerance or overtolerance.
EDIT: I'm a little tired and made a huge typo which can be seen in bold
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
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Well, what if a religion endorsed the use of Pot or LSD to its members, then the government would step in rite? But if they endorse public beheadings, stonings and a range of other sick practices, we say that is their culture and we shouldnt interfere.
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Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. |
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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Location: Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
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| Obviously wrote: |
Why the heck has this been allowed to prosper? |
The same reason the mafia has prospered. It is called due process of law. You have to prove that they defrauding people or violating the law in some manner. From the TV series "CSI", we learn that there are places in Las Vegas where one can pursue many bizarre ideas of sexuality, including types of sado-masochism. The point is that if people freely choose to participate they can be beaten and abused to their hearts content. Therefore no matter how "sick" you think such activities and establishments are, a secular society does not allow your personal moral sensibilities to be the standard by which it is decided what other people are allowed to do. Capiche?
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See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com |
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