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| Colonizing Planets and Moons |
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| Do you believe we should allow corporations and countires to own parts of planets and moons |
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| no |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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| jh2020 |
 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Colonizing Planets and Moons |
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The following is an article I wrote for my website: http://www.2020futurelinks.com:
Colonizing Planets and Moons
Thoughts by Gary Yantis
I love space travel, however, being around as long as I have, I see a problem. Lack of will power, politicians who are tied to the trough and are not willing to challenge us and to stay with a program. If we sit around and wait for the government to get us to the Moon or Mars, it’s not going to happen. They will talk a good talk and then just let a program die. After we got to the Moon in 1969-1972 we should have set up a permanent base within three to five years, instead we settled for earth orbit and have stayed there ever since. We can't even get up the courage to fix the Hubble Space Telescope.
Maybe it would be good for Japan and China to start a moon race, maybe our pride will kick in and we will get there again, but will we have the will to stay.
Somehow, private enterprise has to kick in.
Look at history. America sat idle for years until England funded private companies that would invest in America and other countries. What if the government encouraged oil companies and others that have great resources to take those profits and get into new developments such as building for the future in transportation, including private space development.
Let's give those companies options:
-do nothing and be taxed on the profits
-do something and get credits to offset the profits taxes
-do something really special (like private space development) and be granted land grants when they get to the Moon or Mars!
As long as planets and moons are off limits to corporations that would like to own huge tracks of land, nothing will happen. Give the first corporation that gets settlers to another planet or moon and successfully settles that location for two years, without abandoning the location in that time, a land grant for 5,000,000 acres of land spread over several planets and moons, watch the development begin. Note, they have to spread their acreage over several bodies. Not just a single planet or moon.
Any country that successful lands man on a planet or moon and sustains life for two years can claim land in all directions for 1,000 miles. Any corporation that does the same could claim land in all directions for 100 miles. If your country doesn't have the courage or passion to get in the race, let it be left out!
First, we have to learn how to be risk takers again. We can’t play it safe.
The second step would be for our country to unilaterally renounce that part of the Space Treaty that forbids a country or corporation from claiming land when it lands on a foreign body. Note, to actually claim that land the country or corporation has to sustain life in a settlement for two consecutive years. Sending a robot to a moon, planet or asteroid doesn’t count.
Once we have changed that part of the treaty the land grab will be on and you will see Canada, Australia, Europe, Russia, China, Japan, India, South Africa, Israel, Middle Eastern countries and the United States all working competitively or together to settle foreign lands. You will also see private corporations sprouting up to take the big gamble. Let the race begin!
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 521
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Yes!
I say, let them own it as long as they can build on it, and by build i dont mean just putting up fences or something. don't let them buy stuff they cannot develope though.
Of course, after the colonies are established they may want their independace, but that would require peaceful means unless they can make their own oxygen, water, food etc...
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| jh2020 |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Nitendo |
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I don't know if this is allowed, but visit my site and check the many topics and links I have established, particularly with Moon, Mars and Beyond and the Space Elevator.
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Gary Yantis |
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| numb3rs |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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i say no becuse space is a fronter for enyone like a cowbow 
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Colonizing Planets and Moons |
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| jh2020 wrote: |
Look at history. America sat idle for years until England funded private companies that would invest in America and other countries. What if the government encouraged oil companies and others that have great resources to take those profits and get into new developments such as building for the future in transportation, including private space development.
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Dear Gary
Like Numbers, I must demur.
One point of view is that "America sat idle".
Another is that many thriving civilisations (the Mississippian, for example) were destroyed by the land grab. Native Americans would have a lot to say about this notion. So would the Passenger Pigeons (over 4 billion of them 200 years ago, extinct by a hundred years ago), the vast herds of bison (though USians confusingly call them buffalo), and all the other environmentally sensitive living beings in both North and South America.
So no, the colonisation of the Americas is not, unlike some might consider, an unmitigated benefit. In fact it has been, in many cases, unmitigatedly disastrous. When we talk of taking history into account, it's the whole of history that we should be considering, perhaps, not just the stories told by the rich victors.
cheer
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| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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As i said before.........
Stay Off My Moon!
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| jh2020 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you'll find anything larger than microbes on Mars and probably nothing on the Moon. Both are waiting for our colonization, to breathe life into both.
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| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| jh2020 wrote: |
| I don't think you'll find anything larger than microbes on Mars and probably nothing on the Moon. Both are waiting for our colonization, to breathe life into both. |
We need to start breathing life into people not moons and planets.
Wake up
Cuntinuum just stated in the trash forum he was indifferent about everything in life now.........do you think that is healthy?
AaHh.....you all don't care....you just want to go park your bums and fall asleep on other spheres just for the hell of it.
The moon is cold, barren and dusty!
As if there isn't enough dust to suck up here!
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| wandrug |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| man has to land on the moon first> |
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| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| wandrug wrote: |
| man has to land on the moon first> |
Ah.....yes!
Must have took ages to build that film set
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Wow, this is retarded.
I am of Native American descent, and we all know what the colonists in america did was wrong.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOON AND MARS!!
There are no people there! We won't be hurting anything, in fact, at least in the case of mars, terra forming will help mankind because then we have more places to live, to offset the effects of overcrowding without some kind of genocide!
Not all companies and governments are evil! in fact, corporations and governments are no worse or better than the people in charge of them. Lets say Google wanted to put a googleplex on the moon, they treat their employees well, they don't run sweat shops. Who are we to stop them?
This is ridiculous, it is not like you are going to hurt the moon or mars. Mars is already barren, not much worse we can do to it!
You can't assume that just because a company is successfull that they are evil.
In response to numb3rs, if no companies or governments are interested in space, what makes you think you can get there on your own?
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| jh2020 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Amen to Supernatendo!!! 
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| Wow, this is retarded. |
And this is an argument?
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| I am of Native American descent, and we all know what the colonists in america did was wrong. |
Was the colonisation of America wrong, or just the way in which it was done?
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOON AND MARS!! |
Gary's the one who made the analogy.
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| There are no people there! We won't be hurting anything, in fact, at least in the case of mars, terra forming will help mankind because then we have more places to live, to offset the effects of overcrowding without some kind of genocide! |
There were no people on Mauritiius either - until we got there and made the dodo extinct. I don't see how the fact that there no people on Mars has anything to do with the potential damage caused to it by profit-seekers.
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| Not all companies and governments are evil! in fact, corporations and governments are no worse or better than the people in charge of them. Lets say Google wanted to put a googleplex on the moon, they treat their employees well, they don't run sweat shops. Who are we to stop them? |
Please read about the tragedy of the commons. You do not have to be evil to destroy a resource - simple self interest and Adam Smith's 'invisible hand' will do that for you. Even today, thanks to private enterprise, we are destroying the stocks of fish (and all ocean wildlife, to be honest) and we still have no way of stopping it.
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| This is ridiculous |
This is a claim? An argument?
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| , it is not like you are going to hurt the moon or mars. Mars is already barren, not much worse we can do to it! |
You know this for a fact and true? What scientists don't yet know? What NASA won't yet claim?
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| You can't assume that just because a company is successfull that they are evil. |
See above. But the most successful companies tend to be monopolistic (or hegemonic at the very least - attempting to raise the barriers to entry in their markets) and not one I know of hasn't shown these tendencies. It is these very tendencies - competitiveness and profit-making motives - that make private enterprise the worst way to deal with new, limited resources whose vulnerability is not yet well known.
Instead of taking on Mars, why do you not speak of Antarctica, where even today, thanks to one of the few pieces of enlightened thinking internationally, national governments have decreed boundary lines between certain protected sectors, and the Antarctic environment is being conserved and studied instead of being exploited and ruined.
In case you find my points ridiculous, or retarded, or in other deserving of scorn, it would be politer to first point out why, in a cogent way.
Thanks
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| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| Wow, this is retarded. |
Retarded = backwards.
Not sure who's going forwards and who's going backwards here. The rest of your post seems to be going nowhere.
You seem to be under the illusion that living on a derelict and barren planet is mankind progressing and going forward, and i'm inclined to disagree!
For starters in your case for 'overcrowding' and the possibilities of genocide. Isn't it more progressive for humans to use the brain we've been given in coming to a sensible action plan about over-population than ignoring the problem and instead believing we have the right to behave like spores and infect other spheres and planets with over-crowding?
That is more like backwards thinking!
I would be very happy to see Google, the Government and big corporations ship off to some derelict planet and wave them all a hearty goodbye, for it is these particular organizations which promote capitalist ideals and an 'everyone out for themselves' ideology and encourages this selfish attitude of 'grabbing' 'owning' and grasping.
It's these particular corporations and governments who withhold birth control and education in third world countries which would enable population control because they have pharmaceutical interests to protect, as well as the devastation and damage already done to the natural resources of this planet because of exploitation, greed and ownership.
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| In response to numb3rs, if no companies or governments are interested in space, what makes you think you can get there on your own? |
What if people didn't want to go there in the first place?
I certainly don't! We have a beautiful planet right here rich in diversity with still much more to be explored and discovered.
(Instead of focusing on repairing the damage already achieved on this planet, the greedy bastards want to planet hop instead and exploit other realms. Well why am i not surprised!)
I couldn't think of anything worse than living on a murky barren planet alongside google and its employees (shudder!)
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| jh2020 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Sunshinewarrior:
I appreciate your viewpoint, however I'm old enough to be skeptical of governments. Whoever gets in office this year, I am afraid NASA will find no friend. The politicians will take away the resources and it will be another 40 or 50 years before we get off this planet.
I don't know if you saw the program on tv this week but they now speculate that the reason we had a kill off of large animals in the Americas 12,000 years ago was the result of another astroid that hit the ice sheet in Canada. No crater was found because it hit the icesheet. However they found spheroids that came from space at that time all over north America, from Canada, East Coast, West Coast and Middle America. The astroid also caused climate change. Man was able to adapt, but large animals became extinct only leaving the bison as the sole large game.
The clock is ticking and if we don't get ourselves on another planet or two we may be the ones who are destroyed the next time it happens.
I believe in free enterprise and I believe that is the way to go. We must grant large profits to create the motivation to tackle such undertakings.
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Gary Yantis |
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