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Thread: Less tolerance for crackpots?

  1. #101  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    Crackpots do have a place here. If someone posts some crackpot theory...and you know in your heart it's wrong...but don't have the data in memory to refute it....you might have to do some research into the field to gather the data to show that they are wrong...and in the process learn something...or someone that is reading the crackpot thread might learn something. That is the purpose of this board...to learn..in what ever way we can.

    It's just important that we let the lurkers know that the post is "on the fringe"...and not established science. There's nothing wrong with that.
    Those damn "lurkers".
    You do realize this site is indexed by google, and non-members looking for answers can come across threads. This is a science board...and we accept known science. If something is outside the bounds of science...we have a place for it. So that lurkers can know what is hard science and what is not.
    Do you think that simple, stupid, and childlike social conversations, should be allowed in the hard science areas of this forum?
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  2. #102  
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    I have no idea what your talking about...me and jokers stay out of the serious science threads. You clearly think there is some sort of conspiracy against you Chad....there isn't. Take your meds.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  3. #103  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Do you think that simple, stupid, and childlike social conversations, should be allowed in the hard science areas of this forum?
    Simple, stupid, and childlike social conversations... Would that be a bit like claiming cult-conspiracies?
    Going on and on about your delusional fantasies and very, VERY imaginative interpretation of posts?
    I'm glad, Chad, that I haven't got your nerve in my tooth.
    You're one of the biggest crackpots on here. It's no wonder you're defending 'crackpottery.'
    You whine and complain about who might read the threads, and see the word, "poop" but you don't care about the absurd slander you dish out when you assault the character of another member simply because of your highly delusional fantasies, now do you? You have no sense of shame at all, do you?
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  4. #104  
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    You have no sense of shame at all, do you?
    No...he has no sense of shame
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  5. #105  
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    Do you think that simple, stupid, and childlike social conversations, should be allowed in hard science areas of this forum?
    It depends.

    Sometimes there's a bit of silly banter which is very much like real life conversations which often have humorous or personal asides and then everybody gets their teeth back into the meat of the serious discussion. That's perfectly OK.

    Other times, discussions are derailed into crank territory, or complaints about other participants and then, complaints about 'heavy-handed' moderators removing those posts.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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  6. #106  
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    The answer to crackpots is in the responses of members on this forum. Including, of course, Moderators who can and do move threads to PseudoScience or Trashcan etc - or close them down if necessary. But I think the primary means of dealing with unscientific nonsense is the members making comments. Most brazen nonsense seems to get identified as such quickly enough and the exchanges can be entertaining. Attempting to prevent or delete such exchanges is (IMO) a less effective method of dealing with crackpots than allowing those exchanges - bearing in mind that they can devolve to the point where moderation is necessary.

    Those brought to this site by search engines have to accept that this is a discussion forum, not an alternative to wikipedia or google scholar. If reading threads on subjects of interest isn't enough, people can become members and ask questions - usually getting civil and often informative replies. If they can't figure what's sense and what's nonsense from reading a thread then they aren't going to be made more sensible by trying to remove and prevent nonsense appearing here. And on some issues the line between them can be subjective - and discussion, not moderation, is necessary.
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    You can't control conversations chad. You can't control people, all you can hope for is influence them to your bidding and the likelihood of this happening here with these members is unlikely and I don't even see what point it is you are trying to get across. it seems as though again, a member has bruised ego and doesn't want to lose. Sometimes people will joke and mess about and yes they piss off everyone now and again but that's the way some people are, they joke around, they're buffoons and they love getting under your skin but these guys here aren't like that, sometimes its good to have you ego knocked just so you know your ego is being knocked and you lighten up a bit! It alleviates tension for everyone involved!

    If you don't like them block them, no-one is forcing you to put up with what you don't find acceptable, and in the long run it's never a waste to learn compromise.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So short of simply banning everybody what methods are available on an internet forum such as this to possitively break down these barriers and get through to people, how do you alter someone's attitude and approach in a good way and get them to start listening, or at the very least be in the correct frame of mind to want to listen, this is possibly getting into psychological territory here but am quite interested in the tools and techniques available, so that they are ready to unlearn and to start further learning in the correct manner?
    This one will earn you the question of the year award. The answer maybe even the Nobel Prize in Psychology.
    The use of the words "we," and "our" in the following refers to all of us, any of us, as people in our daily interactions with any other person:
    Thing is, if we knew how to make a person snap into clarity- life would be easier as a whole. It's something which is heavily influenced by so many factors that are not only not in our control, but unpredictable in daily life. How do you convince a child of getting good grades or an addict of recovery? Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.
    You just try your best and let others try their own best method.
    This is interesting. Unusually fertile thinking.
    Zin was asking for peace on earth. I ask for peace in conversations.
    How do we create a context conducive for illumination? Im not convinced the Science Forum is the answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdV View Post
    I ask for peace in conversations.
    Hilarious.
    Go on... tell another one.
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  10. #110  
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    one of the distractions I see in these forums is when the spirit of debate turns into personal attacks, which then are retaliated and begin to spiral into more personal attacks.

    eg:
    Hilarious.
    Go on... tell another one.
    maybe well intentioned, but leads to counter attack and counter attack and hurt feelings and redoubled counter attack, untill the thing falls into silly childish ego battles, and then,
    the moderator has to shut it down

    maybe
    if we could encourage discretion
    moderation
    and a feeling of collegiality,
    some of this childish nonsense would
    "resolve itself into a dew"

    "let he who is without sin throw the first stone"

    (I ain't trying to throw nothing)
    (no offense neverfly---your post was just convenient-though I've seen such interactions for several years in looking at old threads)
    Last edited by sculptor; December 30th, 2012 at 07:58 PM.
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  11. #111  
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    Bite me.
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  12. #112  
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    only on the jugular

    (when she said
    "eat me"
    I wonder if she knew i was a cannibal)
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    They seem to be preaching psuedoscience onto other members, and it's hard to tell whether they are forum trolls, who are perfectly aware of it, in an attempt to stir up arguments, or just genuinly deluded customers who cannot accept the rigorous framework of what is globally accepted science.
    the modern internet thesedays, people just dismiss anyones different view point as trolling. this is not open minded. a troll is some who posts something for a reaction i have not seen any trolling on this forum, only some dedicated people trying to discuss theories but be abused in the process. the object of science is to question and examine everything, dimissing peoples theories as crackpot just becuase you dont like them is not scientific. you should allow dissent.
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  14. #114  
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    If you want to have crackpot views tolerated, just post religious ones. They'll be fully supported while anyone that debunks the claims gets called an "Anti-Theist" and deliberate trouble-maker, instigator and zealot by its Adminstrator Harold14370.
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  15. #115  
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    the object of science is to question and examine everything, dimissing peoples theories as crackpot just becuase you dont like them is not scientific. you should allow dissent.
    Question and examine everything? I think not. It's like cleaning. Once it's done, it's done. When you notice something different about it, you pay it some attention, do some work on it and move on to something else, again.

    There's not enough time in the world to do everything over and over and over again. But you hop to it pretty smartly when there's evidence that indicates something in the existing literature needs checking or reworking or verifying. Who's best qualified to determine when that needs doing? The people who understand it.

    It really is futile for people without requisite skill or knowledge to spend their whole lives pretending that they're an honest, innocent child pointing at an "emperor's new clothes" moment in science.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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  16. #116  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    the modern internet thesedays, people just dismiss anyones different view point as trolling.
    Firstly, this is a cross generalisation and as such neither true nor false.
    Secondly, it depends where you post. If you go onto a forum devoted to General Relativity and start posting about push gravity and Euclidean space, then you better be prepared for a reaction. Likewise if I go onto a conservative Christian forum and post that God doesn't exist - the reaction will be swift and decisive. That has nothing to do with "allowing dissent" or being heavy-handed.

    There are forums of all flavours and orientations out there - if you believe the BB never happened, that space is flat and gravity is pushing, I suggest you stick to a pseudoscience forum, of which there are ( sadly ) very many. Your point of view will be appreciated there. If however you post onto a mainstream forum, then you should know that there will be a reaction. It was your decision to post, so don't complain about what comes back to you - in fact you knew what the reaction would be, but you posted anyway just to elicit a response, so in a way it does qualify as trolling.
    Lynx_Fox, KALSTER, Strange and 2 others like this.
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  17. #117  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    Crackpots do have a place here. If someone posts some crackpot theory...and you know in your heart it's wrong...but don't have the data in memory to refute it....you might have to do some research into the field to gather the data to show that they are wrong...and in the process learn something...or someone that is reading the crackpot thread might learn something. That is the purpose of this board...to learn..in what ever way we can.

    It's just important that we let the lurkers know that the post is "on the fringe"...and not established science. There's nothing wrong with that.
    Those damn "lurkers".
    You do realize this site is indexed by google, and non-members looking for answers can come across threads. This is a science board...and we accept known science. If something is outside the bounds of science...we have a place for it. So that lurkers can know what is hard science and what is not.

    In the same way that the 'mutation' is the engine for the advancement of biological forms, i believe that the alternative take on science subjects counts sometimes [only sometimes mind] as the same. Crackpots, i prefer the label 'eccentricks' should be welcome here, lest it turns into a back slapping old boys who believe the know something forum.

    Heck what do i know, i know nothing.

    Paul.
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  18. #118  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    the object of science is to question and examine everything, dimissing peoples theories as crackpot just becuase you dont like them is not scientific. you should allow dissent.
    Question and examine everything? I think not. It's like cleaning. Once it's done, it's done. When you notice something different about it, you pay it some attention, do some work on it and move on to something else, again.

    There's not enough time in the world to do everything over and over and over again. But you hop to it pretty smartly when there's evidence that indicates something in the existing literature needs checking or reworking or verifying. Who's best qualified to determine when that needs doing? The people who understand it.

    It really is futile for people without requisite skill or knowledge to spend their whole lives pretending that they're an honest, innocent child pointing at an "emperor's new clothes" moment in science.
    um..you say 'once its done,its done'..
    then say 'hop to it' when evidence is there..

    how does one know that evidence is there unless they are still questioning and examining?

    its been said time and time again..science is there to observe, not to make judgements..that is for the scientists..
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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  19. #119  
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    Do not scientists practice science Squirrel? In the same way bakers bake? Your post didn't make much sense there.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  20. #120  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime View Post
    Do not scientists practice science Squirrel? In the same way bakers bake?
    um..yes..sorry?
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
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  21. #121  
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    Why are you dividing Scientists from science then? Scientists or science don't judge, science is the observation and repeated testing of theories.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  22. #122  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime View Post
    Why are you dividing Scientists from science then? Scientists or science don't judge, science is the observation and repeated testing of theories.
    right,
    science is the observation and testing..
    scientists are the humans doing the observations and testing and forming the conclusions..
    (please dont argue too hard about the difference between conclusions/judgement,they are two sides of the same coin)
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
    http://squirrels-nest.proboards.com/
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  23. #123  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdV View Post
    I ask for peace in conversations.
    Hilarious.
    Go on... tell another one.
    I sometimes make sense to you.
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