Notices

View Poll Results: Would a forensics/criminology subforum interest you?

Voters
10. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    9 90.00%
  • No

    1 10.00%
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: forensics section...

  1. #1 forensics section... 
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    I brought this up in a general discussion thread, but thought I'd formally suggest it here (seems appropriate...).

    Anyone in favor of a forensics/criminology section?

    Cheers,
    william


    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,229
    I


    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    "Jamerica"...When in America, Florida; when in Jamaica, St. Mary
    Posts
    959
    Nay.

    </kidding>

    I
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

    http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php

    Theists welcome.
    ___________
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,803
    is there enough knowledge of forensics out there to fill a sub-forum on the subject - apart from what we think we know from tv series, which isn't reallythe same ? (sorry to be a fly in the ointment)
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    is there enough knowledge of forensics out there to fill a sub-forum on the subject - apart from what we think we know from tv series, which isn't reallythe same ? (sorry to be a fly in the ointment)
    Hi Marn,
    The same could have been said about many other subforums I think.

    Personally, I'm dying to start a discussion about a relatively famous case that has yet to be solved. I think the patrons here would find it interesting - even if they might not be able to contribute.

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,229
    ZODIAC KILLER?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Hi Chaps,
    I just made this into a poll.

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Let me try my hand at selling this idea...

    Here's what I invision this subforum might consist of:

    1. The discussion of real cases.
    E.g., KALSTER mentions the Zodiac. This person killed several people in the late '60's and early '70's. His crimes were succeded by calls to the police (within hours of the crimes - before they were discovered) and taunting letters to the local newspapers. Some of his letters included ciphers - one of which has yet to be cracked (I believe). Known victims number 7, 2 of which survived. He claims to have a tally of 37. There may be a murder (strikingly similar in style) dating back as early as 1966 that may be the work of the Zodiac.

    He was never caught....


    There is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that points to one person. However, DNA taken from known Zodiac letters (ones where he included bits of a bloody shirt taken from one of the victims) didn't match this suspect. Could the Zodiac have known, in the early '70's - way before the dawn of DNA analysis, not to lick the envelopes and stamps? In that case, who did lick these envelopes?

    2. The psychology of crime.
    What drives criminals? What is the mindset of a serial rapist/killer?
    Ted Bundy was a bright, lawyer in the making. He feigned injuries to lure female victims. He would have sex with the corpses days after the murder. He confessed to 29 murders. There may have been more. What could drive someone to value other's lives so little?

    3. Techniques of crime-scene investigation (CSI).
    E.g., the human body creates two types of sweat - eccrine and apocrine. The apocrine is the smelly kind, and the eccrine is the kind that regulates body temperature. The smelly kind is more useful in CSI, however, both can provide useful evidence. Techniques have advanced so much that, analysis of bedsheets (e.g.) can not only tell us whether the victim was in that bed, but also roughly when they were there.

    4. Eyewitness testimony.
    How reliable is it? Could you positively identify a suspect, keeping in mind that you may have been under extreme distress during the crime? One has to wonder how many possibly innocent suspects were convicted based on eyewitness testimony....

    5. Profiling vs. "hard" forensics.
    Could profiling actually lead police away from the true suspect? What goes into profiling? Can we really gain that much insight into the criminal from the crime scene? (John Douglas has written many books about his experience as an FBI profiler....)

    6. Imaginary scenarios.
    Do you think you could solve a crime?
    Imagine... you are a rookie policeman. You are called as a first responder to a murder. You are the first to arrive. What should you do? What shouldn't you do? Now imagine you are the detective assigned to the case. Same questions.

    7. Real scenarios.
    In 1986, a British-turned American engineer was found dead in his den where he lived in Buenos Aires. Cause of death - carbon monoxide poisoning. Carbon monoxide has ~300 times greater ability to mix with with haemoglobin than does oxygen, thus starving the human body of its needed oxygen.

    Carbon monoxide is produced in many ways; coal-gas, automobile exhaust, coke ovens, domestic appliances, etc. However, there were no signs of where this gas could have come from in the den and home of our victim....

    Was the body moved from the crime scene and placed in the den after death?
    When death occurs, blood circulation rapidly ceases, and gravity takes over. The blood settles in the places of lowest gravitational potential (i.e. the lower parts of the body relative to "up"). This is called hypostasis. Blood cannot flow into areas of the body that are "compressed" (e.g., the arse if the person is seated). Careful analysis of the body indicated that the victim had not been moved after death.

    Was this a suicide? Murder? Freak accident?
    Where did the carbon monoxide come from?

    Police were baffled....
    (This case was eventually solved BTW.)



    Did I sell it...?

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,803
    you got me convinced - i'm in
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Guest
    Subjects such as Criminology, the Law and forensic science are probably most closely related to Behavioral & Social Sciences - would you like this thread moved there?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Subjects such as Criminology, the Law and forensic science are probably most closely related to Behavioral & Social Sciences - would you like this thread moved there?
    Hi Mega,
    It doesn't really matter to me where this thread is. I just thought having a stand-alone forensics subsection might be nice.

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    935
    I was on the fence but your post convinced me. I do wonder if there'll be enough posts to merit its own forum but there's no harm in trying.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    I was on the fence but your post convinced me. I do wonder if there'll be enough posts to merit its own forum but there's no harm in trying.
    Hi Neutrino,
    I worry about that too.

    The closest thing we have to a criminology section is the "behavioral and social sciences" section. Surely we could discuss profiling and such in there. But when the discussion branches off into other crime-investigating techniques, real cases, etc., they no longer really fit into that section anymore.

    I don't think a criminology section would generate as much traffic as the religion section, but it would be nice to have a criminology section where these specific things can be discussed. It might even draw the attention of "passers by" that aren't really interested in the rest of this forum. I could even imagine a few law enforcement officers taking part. That would be neat.

    Thanks for your support.

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Maastricht, Netherlands
    Posts
    861
    Done. It can always be reversed (threads moved to 'behavioural science') should the interest be low. Now go ye yonder and make some threads!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Done. It can always be reversed (threads moved to 'behavioural science') should the interest be low. Now go ye yonder and make some threads!
    Thank you HU!

    I am pretty busy today and the next. But I'll definitely start a few threads there.

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Cool, I was just about to pull rank and request this be added. It will of course have to be conditional based on interest. We may also have to dump one of the not often used forums. This is of course not a priority. If HU has not already done so, let's make sure we have a very nice description on the new Forensics forum so as to draw people in from searches.

    Best of luck, and congrats.

    IS
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •