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  1. #1 Moderators. 
    Forum Ph.D.
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    Good to see John Galt has returned after a break!
    Does anyone know why adelady has stopped posting?


     

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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.


     

  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.
    All power to your elbow, JG.
     

  5. #4  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.
    Ominously intriguing.
    Or intriguingly ominous.

    Go for it.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.
    Far better to beg forgiveness than ask permission!
    But do keep in mind as you implement your plan that some people are here on this forum because it is unique from other forums.
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
    -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.-
    Cat's Cradle.
     

  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    But do keep in mind as you implement your plan that some people are here on this forum because it is unique from other forums.
    Which unique features do you think are beneficial?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    But do keep in mind as you implement your plan that some people are here on this forum because it is unique from other forums.
    Which unique features do you think are beneficial?
    I find Harold particularly moderating influence. A suspension is too severe, but a question that draws the conversation back on line is often all that is needed.
     

  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    But do keep in mind as you implement your plan that some people are here on this forum because it is unique from other forums.
    Which unique features do you think are beneficial?
    I'm completely unsure as to where the quantifiers specifically lay, but I feel as if a certain amount of "assholes and elbows" greases the forum so that it is not too dry. Although it doesn't take very much "he said, she said" drama queen crap to make too much of that.
    Mostly I was attempting to imply that anytime a machine is adjusted, it should be by one adjustment at a time and only ever a quarter turn before a pause, a listen, and a check of the gauges. Or like with the anecdote of slowly heating a frogs water till it boils, which I understand is entirely a myth, but is a useful metaphor nonetheless.

    Have you noticed that there is a TeX tutorial in the maths sub-fora, but not one for calculus?
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
    -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.-
    Cat's Cradle.
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman precious siraj's Avatar
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    The important thing is how much members have learned from this forum?
    criticism on other members and "moderating the manner and matter of others' posts" is not important but necessary. Learning is important not moderating.
     

  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.

    (Bold mine)

    I am in favor of a more strict approach to the forum moderation system.
    The constant appearance of people who should not be here, is getting tiresome and it diminishes the quality of the forum in general.

    Also, it is good to see back!
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Good to see John Galt has returned after a break!
    Does anyone know why adelady has stopped posting?
    Maybe I do not have the right to ask about adelady , but I don't see any reference to cancer in her second last post dated July 15th.
    Possibly in another post?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Good to see John Galt has returned after a break!
    Does anyone know why adelady has stopped posting?
    Maybe I do not have the right to ask about adelady , but I don't see any reference to cancer in her second last post dated July 15th.
    Possibly in another post?
    You have a right to ask, but to my knowledge, nobody here knows the answer. Who said anything about cancer?
     

  14. #13  
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    I was likely the one who mentioned it, but I just went and looked, and I could not find the post from her I thought I had read just before she stopped posting.
    Maybe I misread it, or got confused.
    Last edited by dan hunter; September 10th, 2014 at 06:59 AM.
     

  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Good to see John Galt has returned after a break!
    Does anyone know why adelady has stopped posting?
    Maybe I do not have the right to ask about adelady , but I don't see any reference to cancer in her second last post dated July 15th.
    Possibly in another post?
    You have a right to ask, but to my knowledge, nobody here knows the answer. Who said anything about cancer?
    Dan Hunter mentioned cancer in the Chat Box!
     

  16. #15  
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    ...and I sincerely hope I got it wrong.
     

  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    ...and I sincerely hope I got it wrong.
    I didn't notice your post before I sent post number 14.
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Masters Degree pavlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Thank you. You may feel differently in a few days, or weeks.

    I have been spending a great deal of time on other forums and feel we need to tighten up our moderation here. In the past I would have looked to discuss and debate my ideas with all of you. On reflection I don't think that has ever worked efficiently. So, I shall be moderating perhaps quite aggressively. My approach can then be debated as a reality, not a hypothetical. Obviously, if my approach meets with general disapproval I shall halt it.
    Welcome back and go for it. Hopefully as always you will remain fair and impartial.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
     

  19. #18  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Welcome back and go for it. Hopefully as always you will remain fair and impartial.
    Thank you. I shall always aim for those objectives and when I fall short it will not be by intent.
     

  20. #19  
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    Hello!! So I participate in another science forum (a spanish one). What kind of problems are you having? In the other forum we had people coming to talk about pseudoscience and mix science thread with religion. It became quite a big problem and we decided to erase all those post and ban the people who entered the forum just to comment on religion in science threads. But after we did that.. the forum practically died...
    So.... I donīt know if you guys are having the same problems here but Iīll tell you that itīs so much fun and interesting when those topics are allowed.
    Iīm pretty sure that for moderators it is a pain...
    Specially if you are moderating a forum for almost 10 years... Hang in there John!!

    bye
     

  21. #20  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_Gabriela View Post
    Specially if you are moderating a forum for almost 10 years... Hang in there John!!
    Hola, Gabriella, como esta? Gracias. Your comments are genuinely appreciated.

    Without the creationists and the "I have a theory" crowd, the forum would see far less activity, just as you suggest happened with the Spanish forum. But what I am seeking to do is to manage those fringe areas more effectively, to eliminate the bickering and encourage a genuine, evidence-based dialogue.
     

  22. #21  
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    As a suggestion to eliminate bickering (just an idea ) you could put offending bickerers on enforced inter ignore.A bit like banging heads together but wrapping them in cotton wool instead.

    To be honest ,if a topic is relegated to pseudoscience or similar I don't see the problem with letting off steam or being ridiculous as long as it is between consenting adults and it is not defamatory or worse.

    Just a thought -I wish you success in putting manners on us contributors and hopefully fostering an environment where it is possible to help each other with this kind of information.
     

  23. #22  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Without the creationists and the "I have a theory" crowd, the forum would see far less activity
    I agree.

    But what I am seeking to do is to manage those fringe areas more effectively, to eliminate the bickering and encourage a genuine, evidence-based dialogue.
    Would it be possible to have a forum policy along the lines of "Failure to produce support/ evidence after 3 (or whatever number) direct requests will result in thread locking"? Or something similar?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Would it be possible to have a forum policy along the lines of "Failure to produce support/ evidence after 3 (or whatever number) direct requests will result in thread locking"? Or something similar?
    I think this is a useful suggestion. It might be counterproductive to have a rigid number - some members make what they may consider a genuine effort to offer support that we would consider weak: logical fallacies, YouTube videos and the like. If they were showing a growing awareness of what they were doing wrong I would not like to shut them down.

    If other members care to comment on the idea, we may be able to evolve something that is practical and effective.
     

  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Without the creationists and the "I have a theory" crowd, the forum would see far less activity
    I agree.

    But what I am seeking to do is to manage those fringe areas more effectively, to eliminate the bickering and encourage a genuine, evidence-based dialogue.
    Would it be possible to have a forum policy along the lines of "Failure to produce support/ evidence after 3 (or whatever number) direct requests will result in thread locking"? Or something similar?
    Who is going to do this asking? Can it be the same person 3 times? Will it be enforced both ways, like, if I ask someone and question them for evidence will I get the same response?
    If it was applied across everyone, fairly and evenly it might work.
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Masters Degree Tranquille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Without the creationists and the "I have a theory" crowd, the forum would see far less activity, just as you suggest happened with the Spanish forum. But what I am seeking to do is to manage those fringe areas more effectively, to eliminate the bickering and encourage a genuine, evidence-based dialogue.
    That would depend on what type of discussion you wish to encourage on this site.

    If you are solely concerned with activity and post counts, then you will be more open to giving a lot more leeway. If your intent is to promote scientific discourse, then a stricter approach will be necessary. So it comes down to what the management want for this site. There are dangers in both. If you are more concerned with how many come through the door and post, then the risk is alienating members who want more serious scientific discourse and they will leave to find a site that caters to their need. If the management is more concerned in promoting scientific discourse, then you risk alienating the fluff who quite happily post pseudoscience in the science forum and demand it be regarded as scientific.

    Personally speaking, I prefer more serious scientific discussion than pseudoscience and religious beliefs being passed off as science in the science forums. It is disheartening to see the level of pseudoscience making its way into the scientific discussions. A mere mention here or there about theories that have no place in scientific discourse is accepted. And it throws the discussion off course and tempers rise. Quality vs quantity. Which is more important?

    As I said, it all comes down to what the management want to encourage here. You can't have both. Both isn't working and trying to have both will result in bickering as one side demands evidence for some of the ridiculous claims and the other provides none or posts more moronic claims and try to back it up with more pseudoscience. And it is a turn off. I have found myself checking back here every few months to see if it has changed. I have lost count of the amount of times I have started reading a thread because it is interesting and I see a chance to educate or help someone understand something, and I am itching to respond, only to see the discussion veer off course because someone cannot help themselves and starts posting either creationism or ridiculous beliefs. And it is a complete turn off. I lose interest because it is so prevalent and frankly, posting will only result in my being frustrated as I would find myself battling against absolute loons who are trying to pass uneducated drivel off as science and they take over the thread. So the interesting discussion gets lost in the absolute battle against absolute stupidity. And I think to myself, what's the point? I return a few months down the track and the cycle repeats itself and out of frustration, I simply leave again, because it is the exact same people with the exact same issues.

    I suspect this may very well be my last foray here. I may check in again in a few months, in the dire hope that it has changed. If it hasn't, then I guess it will be farewell and a thank you for having allowed me to post here.
     

  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Without the creationists and the "I have a theory" crowd, the forum would see far less activity, just as you suggest happened with the Spanish forum. But what I am seeking to do is to manage those fringe areas more effectively, to eliminate the bickering and encourage a genuine, evidence-based dialogue.
    That would depend on what type of discussion you wish to encourage on this site.

    If you are solely concerned with activity and post counts, then you will be more open to giving a lot more leeway. If your intent is to promote scientific discourse, then a stricter approach will be necessary. So it comes down to what the management want for this site. There are dangers in both. If you are more concerned with how many come through the door and post, then the risk is alienating members who want more serious scientific discourse and they will leave to find a site that caters to their need. If the management is more concerned in promoting scientific discourse, then you risk alienating the fluff who quite happily post pseudoscience in the science forum and demand it be regarded as scientific.

    Personally speaking, I prefer more serious scientific discussion than pseudoscience and religious beliefs being passed off as science in the science forums. It is disheartening to see the level of pseudoscience making its way into the scientific discussions. A mere mention here or there about theories that have no place in scientific discourse is accepted. And it throws the discussion off course and tempers rise. Quality vs quantity. Which is more important?

    As I said, it all comes down to what the management want to encourage here. You can't have both. Both isn't working and trying to have both will result in bickering as one side demands evidence for some of the ridiculous claims and the other provides none or posts more moronic claims and try to back it up with more pseudoscience. And it is a turn off. I have found myself checking back here every few months to see if it has changed. I have lost count of the amount of times I have started reading a thread because it is interesting and I see a chance to educate or help someone understand something, and I am itching to respond, only to see the discussion veer off course because someone cannot help themselves and starts posting either creationism or ridiculous beliefs. And it is a complete turn off. I lose interest because it is so prevalent and frankly, posting will only result in my being frustrated as I would find myself battling against absolute loons who are trying to pass uneducated drivel off as science and they take over the thread. So the interesting discussion gets lost in the absolute battle against absolute stupidity. And I think to myself, what's the point? I return a few months down the track and the cycle repeats itself and out of frustration, I simply leave again, because it is the exact same people with the exact same issues.

    I suspect this may very well be my last foray here. I may check in again in a few months, in the dire hope that it has changed. If it hasn't, then I guess it will be farewell and a thank you for having allowed me to post here.
    Well said. Thank you for taking the time to post this. I agree with everything you posted.

    I've suspected for a long time that "upper" management on this site is primarily interested in post count activity, with a secondary interest in promoting science.
     

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    Who do you mean by upper management? Me? The other administrator, Kalster hasn't been around recently.

    I can tell you the site owner has not in any way interfered or even attempted to guide the moderators. Actually, we haven't heard from him in months. I don't really care about post count. I get nothing out of it. My inclination is to let people discuss what they want to discuss. If people want to go into the trash can or the pseudo forum and do battle with crackpots, so be it. Easy solution: just ignore them and they'll go away.
     

  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    ....
    I suspect this may very well be my last foray here. I may check in again in a few months, in the dire hope that it has changed. If it hasn't, then I guess it will be farewell and a thank you for having allowed me to post here.
    To be absolutely honest that is the best news I have heard for a long time. Your style of argumentation is terribly aggressive and always very wrong, full of exaggerations and what I'd call lies.
    You apparently have the ear of some moderators, all the same, for it was always bad news for me, for often I'd be having a holiday soon after you returned. A holiday that IMO was completely undeserved.

    I cannot deny you put up a tough case of your behalf, but it was not always based on provable facts.
    I have wanted to have a fair dinkum debate with you but it always reverted to historic arguments that probably happened between us on other sites, who knows, for identities are blurred through the use of the usernames. As John Galt points out he has had a swag of different ones over the years and sites, but I have nevertheless stuck with Robittybob1.

    I edited a lot of your post but I'll now comment on it. Reading that through again I'd say the problem is you. You get wound up and frustrated. No one else. Can't you control your reactions and join in the discussion normally?
    Last edited by Robittybob1; September 22nd, 2014 at 12:10 AM.
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Masters Degree Tranquille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    To be absolutely honest that is the best news I have heard for a long time. Your style of argumentation is terribly aggressive and always very wrong, full of exaggerations and what I'd call lies.
    And if I am to be absolutely honest, you are part of the problem that is plaguing this site. You infect the scientific discussions with your pseudoscience and religious beliefs which frankly, do not belong there. Your manner of argument is childish and the content of your arguments are not only lacking in substance, but also in basic scientific understanding or knowledge. When you are challenged about your arguments, you resort to whining and baseless accusations. Case in point:
    You apparently have the ear of some moderators, all the same, for it was always bad news for me, for often I'd be having a holiday soon after you returned. A holiday that IMO was completely undeserved.
    I can assure you, Sir, that any holiday you may be sent from this site is entirely on you. Your accusation is inflammatory and entirely fabricated from the depths of your rampant imagination.

    I cannot deny you put up a tough case of your behalf, but it was not always based on provable facts.
    I understand that scientific papers are beyond your capabilities which appear to be restricted to youtube.

    As I noted to Mr Galt, if this site is after quantity over quality, then you will be welcome to remain here and catered to. Which is a shame. Because in the long run, the people that made this site worth participating in will drift away as their frustrations build at having to deal with people who foist their baseless theories and personal beliefs on others and try to claim it is reality.

    I have wanted to have a fair dinkum debate with you but it always reverted to historic arguments that probably happened between us on other sites, who knows, for identities are blurred through the use of the usernames. As John Galt points out he has had a swag of different ones over the years and sites, but I have nevertheless stuck with Robittybob1.
    When I challenge you to support your arguments, that is a debate. It is not my fault that you have such little understanding of even the very basics of evolution and science in general. Imaginings of what you want things to be while ignoring known facts because they don't fit into your idea of what things should be is not a "fair dinkum debate".

    I edited a lot of your post but I'll now comment on it. Reading that through again I'd say the problem is you. You get wound up and frustrated. No one else. Can't you control your reactions and join in the discussion normally?
    I'll be honest. I do become frustrated when confronted with absolute stupidity. That is a fault of mine. And I am also frustrated when I see stupidity coddled and supported.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    ....
    I'll be honest. I do become frustrated when confronted with absolute stupidity. That is a fault of mine. And I am also frustrated when I see stupidity coddled and supported.
    No one here coddles me, I support my arguments and beliefs as best I can. A lot of the Universities have added their lectures to the YT channel so I do find there is a swag of good information on there suited to my current level of knowledge. We've all got to start somewhere.
    If you are trying to imply I'm "absolutely stupid" you are definitely overly opinionated.
     

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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    if the two of you have scores to settle, do it outside this forum - thread locked
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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