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Thread: I don't think it is fair

  1. #1 I don't think it is fair 
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    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names without posting anything much I have ever seen about science? Why do people like that seem to rule the roost here, and I do not think it good. If they talked real science, it would be maybe different , but all I see them do is call others names and then the others get banned and these guys do not . Tell me why, please?


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  3. #2  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names
    Can you name any of these people that have been banned because PhDemon and I "attacked them"?
    The poster mentioned in the thread that spawned this one was banned for the reasons stated:
    the science in his threads gets taken care of within the first few posts, with the rest being a futile attempt at getting him to grasp the simplest of principles, which invariably fails.
    You may think some of those remarks are harsh (some are), but others are honest observations, like him being delusional. The question about his age was serious. The guy was acting (and writing) like a twelve year old. When he revealed his age (something like 40), I was dumbfounded.
    People like him have no good reason to be allowed to continue on a forum like this. He demonstrated clearly that he was essentially incapable of learning, despite his claimed desire for it.

    You seem to be incapable of understanding the facts. A female "theorist" perhaps.

    If they talked real science
    Yeah, something you have multiply and signally failed to do: you post bullshit, then you post links when asked for supporting citations and then, when it's pointed out that those links don't actually support your claim, you start to whine that it's "unfair".

    it would be maybe different , but all I see them do is call others names and then the others get banned and these guys do not . Tell me why, please?
    Because this is a science forum: not an unsupported claims forum.
    Post science and we talk science.
    Post bullshit (or lies) and you get called on it.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names
    Can you name any of these people that have been banned because PhDemon and I "attacked them"?
    The poster mentioned in the thread that spawned this one was banned for the reasons stated:
    the science in his threads gets taken care of within the first few posts, with the rest being a futile attempt at getting him to grasp the simplest of principles, which invariably fails.
    You may think some of those remarks are harsh (some are), but others are honest observations, like him being delusional. The question about his age was serious. The guy was acting (and writing) like a twelve year old. When he revealed his age (something like 40), I was dumbfounded.
    People like him have no good reason to be allowed to continue on a forum like this. He demonstrated clearly that he was essentially incapable of learning, despite his claimed desire for it.

    You seem to be incapable of understanding the facts. A female "theorist" perhaps.

    If they talked real science
    Yeah, something you have multiply and signally failed to do: you post bullshit, then you post links when asked for supporting citations and then, when it's pointed out that those links don't actually support your claim, you start to whine that it's "unfair".

    it would be maybe different , but all I see them do is call others names and then the others get banned and these guys do not . Tell me why, please?
    Because this is a science forum: not an unsupported claims forum.
    Post science and we talk science.
    Post bullshit (or lies) and you get called on it.
    This is what this forum thinks of as science?
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  5. #4  
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    Mayflow, perhaps you don't understand science as an activity.

    A lot of people have a rather romantic, very out-dated, view of people working on their own and writing down their ideas or toiling away in a lab or on a glacier and reporting their findings and everyone says, How clever! It's not like that.

    Science is brutally honest and brutally competitive. Scientists have very thick skins. We sometimes see film clips of respected scientists giving formal addresses and receiving polite applause. That's not typical. What's typical is someone publishes a paper or delivers a talk - and then everyone else dives in and tears the idea, and possibly the person, to shreds. What's left when they're done is either a destroyed hypothesis or the germ of a good idea. But no one puts politeness or tact ahead of accuracy and truth.

    Get your equation or your statistics wrong, and nothing can save you.
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    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    First of all, I don't know what "science equations" are. Go to the Physics subforum and you can find physics equations. Go to the Mathematics subforum and you'll find mathematical equations. You won't find many equations where I prowl in the Earth Sciences area and you probably won't find much in the Biology area. That doesn't mean science isn't being discussed there.

    Secondly, given your apparently limited understanding of science (based on what I have read in your posts), I would be more careful about slinging mud. It won't help your case and it won't make you look more intelligent.
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    Flick, if you didn't get it yet, I figure you are an ok guy. I am not trying to look intelligent, however my own personal personal take of sciences is not about trying to make some case, and I really do not care if others think I am intelligent or not. I was not trying to sling mud, but you can see it as you wish to.

    What I have not liked on this forum are some people and I think you have done this a bit (in fact calling my understandings "limited" in your view seems to do this) is just bigoted and uncalled for.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    And you have demonstrated, quite clearly, that you don't know anything about science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    however my own personal personal take of sciences
    And here's the problem: science is science. There isn't a "personal take".
    You're either doing science or you're not.

    What I have not liked on this forum are some people and I think you have done this a bit (in fact calling my understandings "limited" in your view seems to do this) is just bigoted and uncalled for.
    So it's "bigoted" to ask for support for claims? It's "uncalled for" to point out that unsupported claims are in fact unsupported or that nonsense is nonsense?

    Example of an unsupported claim:"sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something".

    ETA:
    This is what this forum thinks of as science?
    Since you're in the site feedback sub-forum and the topic itself isn't science then why would you expect science as a reply?
    (Although you ARE expected to support your claims - otherwise you're just bullshitting. Again).
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; April 8th, 2014 at 09:15 PM.
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    Duck, where are your posts about science? You have none. I have posted about ITER, about other forms of nuclear fusion. This is I am quite sure the energy source of the future. You have no idea, do you? If you do, do say something other than you think I am stupid? Better than getting someone else banned maybe, but you are talking to the wrong girl this time. Tell me about dark energy and matter- once again no clue? Like I said I am not the right girl for you to address on breaking science stuff, unless you can demonstrate some sort of brain cell activities. Long shots are always accepted in any thesis.
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    for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    Perhaps you should read more and comment less.

    Several people here are scientists or engineers or teachers or technicians with various expertise. There are even a couple of doctors and other medical professionals around at various times. Some among us are people who have taken a particular interest in a topic and become quite competent even though they're not professionals - or even have a relevant degree.

    What makes the discussions interesting is how many people are willing to teach and how many are willing to learn. Some have already done the hard work of learning about a subject, others are in the process of learning and we're willing to ease their way through the hard work they're doing to understand stuff. (Though we won't do anyone's assignments for them.)

    The thing you might be picking up on is that nobody here is willing to give anyone a free pass on the hard work of learning stuff they don't know. We'll give references and explanations. We'll do it again if the person has trouble understanding it. And we'll try half a dozen different ways to express or describe stuff for people who have hit a stumbling block. But if they're unwilling to learn - and that includes doing the necessary work to improve their own understanding - they get told. In no uncertain terms.

    We're also unwilling to allow these forums to be overrun by vague musings or woo or crank ideas. People who put up that kind of stuff don't get treated very kindly. Especially when they complain about being relegated to pseudoscience or trash can. But we'll never lower our standards to accept discussion of silly stuff as though it were worth anyone's time or effort. Never.
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  12. #11  
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    Long shots are always accepted in any thesis.
    Whaaaaa??!!!

    You really don't know anything about science, do you.

    Long shots that pay off can earn people a Nobel Prize. But these are exceptions. Most "long shots" in science are misbegotten ideas that should never have seen the light of day.
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    I probably know some. Got a long shot idea?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Duck, where are your posts about science? You have none.
    Repeated lie.

    I have posted about ITER, about other forms of nuclear fusion.
    Yeah, you gave a link. Whoop-de-doo.
    To a technology.

    This is I am quite sure the energy source of the future
    Why?

    Better than getting someone else banned
    Another lie.

    Long shots are always accepted in any thesis.
    Outright bullshit.

    Still can't support your claims?
    You have, throughout your posting "career" here, displayed a dismaying lack of intellectual (and moral) integrity. It it actually were up to me you'd have been banned long ago.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Flick, if you didn't get it yet, I figure you are an ok guy.
    So long as you understand that it is rarely my intention to hurt anyone's feelings (RomanK aside, because it's fun to poke him). I just believe honesty and sincerity are more important that sugar coating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    What I have not liked on this forum are some people and I think you have done this a bit (in fact calling my understandings "limited" in your view seems to do this) is just bigoted and uncalled for.
    Okay, but I can't defend you when you say things like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Long shots are always accepted in any thesis.
    I'm not trying to be mean when I question your understanding of science. I'm simply trying to suggest, strongly, that you consider learning more about the fundamentals of science before you comment on them.
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    Mayflow, your grievances with this forum are very common amongst the... "Problem-users". The reason their ideas are attacked harshly is because they refuse to back down, do not accept the possibility that they could be wrong, do not provide actual evidence, and take the criticism of their ideas too personally. Users only get attacked personally when they have already demonstrated that they are going to be a problem-user.

    Seldom do users get harsh criticism before actually demonstrating that they just aren't going to mesh well with this community, and what this community is all about - and the only reason that happens is because a lot of the regulars here inevitably have to deal with an endless stream of self-proclaimed modern day Netwons, Einsteins, Gallileos etc. You'd be surprised at how often somebody compares themselves to a famous scientist around here.

    I haven't really looked at all the posts you've made, but I'm guessing you've already given yourself a reputation as a problem user and think you aren't being treated fairly. Put yourself in other peoples' shoes for just a moment. Try dealing with the same type of user every other week: One with an idea they think is novel, but lacks evidence to support the idea, and doesn't understand the maths involved - yet refuses to acknowledge they might actually be wrong, and just continues to pot-stir. Not saying you've made any posts that might indicate you are this type of user, but if you have you fit the criteria of a long line of pipe dreamers that have been a nuissance to regulars. Some of us are just tired of having the same unproductive conversation over-and-over again.

    The only thing that can be said for certain here is that if you are having problems getting on with users here, the only way you're going to able to solve this is if you change the quality of posts, or at least the tone of your posts. Plenty of users, myself included, get by here without being nearly as knowledgeable as the core hard-science posters in this community. We do it by occasionally managing an insightful comment, and by generally having an affable temperament.
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    The 'science' threads have much stricter guidelines than the general discussion and art and culture sub-forums which are generally along the lines of 'social science', often more of a running conversation.

    You might find some latitude in Pseudoscience to start a thread and discussion on some "theories, methodologies or practices that do not conform to what is currently accepted by the scientific community. This is not a 'flame'-section."

    The part in quotes taken directly from the sub-forum page.

    There is also an old adage..."When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

    If it's debate you wish, be sure to be well prepared with viable sources and actual studies, not only testimonials or articles from commercial journalism. Just because it is in print somewhere, does not assume it's accuracy.

    It is the accuracy of the presentations that is ever being examined. Opinions are just opinions. Even my horse has one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names
    I think you may be confusing correlation and causation here. Some posters here do attack some ideas, and occasionally people, very strongly (I have done it myself, although I try to avoid it).

    That is not the reason they get banned. The reason they get banned is typically a combination of relentless stupidity (e.g. theorist), abusive language (err... theorist) and other disruptive behaviour (oh, theorist).

    The same irrational behaviour that leads to them being banned also brings out strong reactions from some members.

    You will see PhDemon and The Duck give serious scientific answers in their areas of expertise, when people ask sensible questions or are otherwise willing to engage in an intelligent discussion. They have very limited patience with people who make ludicrous claims and refuse to acknowledge those claims are false, even when presented with evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    Here are some examples of my posts from the last few days:

    Natural Selection thoughts
    Natural Selection thoughts
    The evolutionary advantage of humour in Homo Sapien survival behaviors
    pressure measuring
    old and still waiting

    I am always keen to improve. Would you identify specific areas of my scientific ignorance revealed by these posts.

    Thank you in advance.
    JG.


    (For the record, I'm more likely not to ban someone the Duck is attacking, since it is such a delight to see him worked up.)
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    Not going to vote for you for president, but I did look at some of the links and did reply to the old and still waiting thing. That does actually interest me.

    I have actually been studying a bit on natural selection as well and I am going to naturally accept what interests me more than what attacks me, if you do not mind? Well unless the attackers are interesting, but that would be quite rare.

    I glanced at the natural selection stuff on the forum here, but it just seemed like people were trying to seem to sound intelligent, but not really talking about the subject.
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    I'll be honest, I'm not actually sure what you want from us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I'll be honest, I'm not actually sure what you want from us.
    Flick, I already said I am happy with you and like you just as you are. For others? I would like Duck and Phy to be nicer and actually talk about science or what all rather than just being mean to others and I. I would like for the smart ones like Markus to just share their intelligence with me (us) in as helpful and well meant ways as they can.
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    I would like Duck and Phy to be nicer and actually talk about science or what all rather than just being mean to others
    When the topic is science, they talk science like the rest of us.

    When the topic is rubbish, they throw it at the bin.

    A bit sooner and a bit more strongly than many of us, but they're not the only ones. Many of us get around to it sooner or later. They're just the ones with the quickest wits and the sharpest tongues. Reminds me of being at the staff club at the university - anyone talks rubbish, there's always someone to put them back in their place PDQ.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I would like Duck and Phy to be nicer and actually talk about science or what all rather than just being mean to others and I
    You're missing the point. Again.
    We're only "mean" when people talk rubbish and try to pass it off as science.
    Which you have a habit of doing.
    (As did theorist, as does Stargate).
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    That John Galt guy showed me some topics where he talked about science, and I did like the topic about "old and still waiting" and I took up on it. PS, I hardly am convinced that sharp tongues=quick wits, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    PS, I hardly am convinced that sharp tongues=quick wits, though.
    You really should learn to read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adelady
    quickest wits and the sharpest tongues
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    While I generally have great respect for the knowledge of some of the members in question, there are days when I just ignore this forum for the 'rabid dog pack style' of dialogue.

    My thoughts are that after one or two exchanges to offer helpful guidance, they should just quit responding and follow their own advice of not supplying ammunition to any poster that they consider to be a 'crank' or a 'troll.' Leave the individual to paint themselves into a corner and just report the posts and let the mods do their job.

    Some just enjoy the exchanges of 'baiting' and as in hockey, there are some who seem to be cast to be 'the bad boys'.

    "That John Galt guy...", lol. I enjoy your turn of phrase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    PS, I hardly am convinced that sharp tongues=quick wits, though.
    You really should learn to read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adelady
    quickest wits and the sharpest tongues
    Geez, ducky....Just learn to accept a compliment, would ya?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    My thoughts are that after one or two exchanges to offer helpful guidance, they should just quit responding and follow their own advice of not supplying ammunition to any poster that they consider to be a 'crank' or a 'troll.' Leave the individual to paint themselves into a corner and just report the posts and let the mods do their job.
    It's the softer, irrational side of me: I always think that "You only have to point out one more time where someone's going wrong and they'll surely be smart enough to correct their error".
    And, constantly, I get let down...

    Geez, ducky....Just learn to accept a compliment, would ya?
    Pfft.
    I'm not sure Adelady meant it as a compliment.
    Regardless, that doesn't affect affect Mayflow's misreading of it.
    Unless she's also under the impression that when someone says "he's 6 foot tall and blue eyed" the implication is that "6 foot tall = blue eyed".
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    I can read quite well. You have a sharp tongue, but that does not mean quick wit. It usually means you are just mean at people. Some on this forum seem to like that, and encourage that. I am not one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I can read quite well. You have a sharp tongue, but that does not mean quick wit. It usually means you are just mean at people. Some on this forum seem to like that, and encourage that. I am not one of them.
    I think you've made your point on this theme.

    Why not venture forth and pursue a topic with the experience gained from these exchanges?

    The leopard does not change his spots but at least you should now understand the nature of the leopard and the means to avoid the species.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I can read quite well.
    Hardly, because you've done it again.

    You have a sharp tongue, but that does not mean quick wit.
    That wasn't said, or implied.

    It usually means you are just mean at people. Some on this forum seem to like that, and encourage that. I am not one of them.
    Yeah, apart from posting crap as science...
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    I have learnt a lot from Mr D and PhDemon. Both are assets of this site.
    Thank you both.
    love ya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I can read quite well. You have a sharp tongue, but that does not mean quick wit. It usually means you are just mean at people. Some on this forum seem to like that, and encourage that. I am not one of them.
    I think you've made your point on this theme.

    Why not venture forth and pursue a topic with the experience gained from these exchanges?

    The leopard does not change his spots but at least you should now understand the nature of the leopard and the means to avoid the species.
    Well, I don't want to harm an endangered species, but ideas follow ideas and flow don't they? Do we venture into the science of the mind now? I think I could enjoy that voyage.
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    Do we venture into the science of the mind now? I think I could enjoy that voyage.
    Think about that for a minute. I certainly wouldn't enjoy it if such a "venture" went anywhere near some of the truly dreadful stuff that gets published in popular science mags like Psychology Today and all its ugly friends. And the guff that gets talked about neurology and brain imaging needs careful sifting to find the few glistening gems.

    There's good research around the place, but it's harder to come by than physical science stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names without posting anything much I have ever seen about science? Why do people like that seem to rule the roost here, and I do not think it good. If they talked real science, it would be maybe different , but all I see them do is call others names and then the others get banned and these guys do not . Tell me why, please?
    If you do not like it here then just MOVE ALONG!
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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    I think there are occasions when there is more ganking than there really needs to be.


    (If anyone finds or knows of a mostly (non-UK*) European Progressive forum let me know, I would enjoy the occasional change of scenery.)


    (* because the UK isnt as different from the US than some other countries)
    Last edited by icewendigo; April 9th, 2014 at 11:21 AM.
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    The ways the mind actually works are intriguing. Or at least how the brain works. Get somebody drunk, do they change and how? I have that chatbot software program - amazing how people talk there! Usually not in good ways. Usually meaner and needier than they want to let on.

    The physical science is iffy too, Adelady. None of it is completely proven. See, this is how we would think if scientific. Question things, investigate things. Be inquisitive. My current interests in the physical sciences revolve around nuclear fusion as the future electric source for the Earth, and trying to make sense out of what we see from long range and outerspace telescope information. Of course, I have a wide range of interests as the mind likes to have the Invigoration of it all - this for the most part does not get stimulated by people calling others dumb and cracks and not contributing to growth of ideas, or banning those who dare to be on their own wavelengths.
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    Ganking? Am I too old?
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    I think you might be, JG. I certainly am.

    (And I'm old enough and dopey enough to look it up. Urban Dictionary: ganking)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Ganking? Am I too old?
    It's an MMO/MMORPG thing.
    I doubt you are too old for MMORPGs; simply not encountered them in any detail.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    When sometimes people are banned here when it is mostly because duck and Phy something and a few other whiner and criers attack them and call them stupid names without posting anything much I have ever seen about science? Why do people like that seem to rule the roost here, and I do not think it good. If they talked real science, it would be maybe different , but all I see them do is call others names and then the others get banned and these guys do not . Tell me why, please?
    Adelady a MODERATOR said: When the topic is science, they talk science like the rest of us. When the topic is rubbish, they throw it at the bin.

    A bit sooner and a bit more strongly than many of us, but they're not the only ones. Many of us get around to it sooner or later. They're just the ones with the quickest wits and the sharpest tongues. Reminds me of being at the staff club at the university - anyone talks rubbish, there's always someone to put them back in their place PDQ.


    I say: Might is right here. For lack of power in real life, people like Phi and Duck rule as tyrants here, and the powers that be (Adelady and others) permit it. Duck spends hours of time here, so he spends most of his time on his computer, all day long trolling people.

    This site as at best amoral. At worst immoral. But such is to be expected when you have mods that permit people like Phi and Duck to run rampant.

    The only way to continue here is to become what you hate, which is like Duck and Phi. If you ACTED like them, and praised them for their evil ways, then they would befriend you.

    But the way I see it, what legacy do you want to leave behind?

    One like their's? No matter what you believe, there is a point in life at which you have to choose, do I want to be a jerk or not?

    Honesty Mayflow, forums are a dangerous place. Too often trolls live here. You're better off just using ones for specific questions, like yahoo. Because there people actually try to answer your questions. And phi and duck don't troll that place as often for lack of ability and time/power.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    (as a OT sidenote, I learned the expression 'Train' in an MMORPG. Im with a friend in a fantasy landscape (I was was in Europe he was in North America) then we read "Train!". Like people are in a panic shouting Train!.
    -Train? what does that mean? -I dont know. -There aren't even trains in this setting. -Hey look at these guys running towards us..
    Then we see characters running towards us in a line, then passing by without stopping.
    -Where are they going? -I dont know.
    We are wondering wtf? Then we see a huge monster running after them, so we have to run away TOO like all the others in the line running for their lives )
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorbo View Post
    The only way to continue here is to become what you hate, which is like Duck and Phi. If you ACTED like them, and praised them for their evil ways, then they would befriend you.

    But the way I see it, what legacy do you want to leave behind?

    One like their's? No matter what you believe, there is a point in life at which you have to choose, do I want to be a jerk or not?

    Honesty Mayflow, forums are a dangerous place. Too often trolls live here. You're better off just using ones for specific questions, like yahoo. Because there people actually try to answer your questions. And phi and duck don't troll that place as often for lack of ability and time/power.

    Pot. Kettle.
    http://www.thescienceforum.com/trash...et-trolls.html
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorbo View Post
    The only way to continue here is to become what you hate, which is like Duck and Phi. If you ACTED like them, and praised them for their evil ways, then they would befriend you.
    I don't believe that is true. I have seen both of them, even Dywyddyr, be polite and have constructive conversations with people who act nothing like them. Stick to evidence-based science and not random speculation and they will react positively.

    There are forums with tougher rules where that sort of behaviour is not tolerated, and with a strict focus on evidence based science. For example, CosmoQuest. I have seen people who post here and complain about the way they are treated go to forums like that and get into trouble with the moderators (or even banned) within 2 or 3 posts.

    So there seems to be a choice: a forum with loose moderation that allows nonsense to be posted and vigorously attacked; or a forum with strict rules where you cannot just discuss any old nonsense (but you will be treated politely if you do).
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    Forum Freshman precious siraj's Avatar
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    their style is different.
    Mr d analyses line by line. And try to point out fault at least two times to the poster. But if poster is not willing to rectify or answer the points raised by D then Mr D makes his life miserable untill poster say sorry or run away. he is a full time crank buster.

    mr phdemon is my favourite. understands topic thoroughly and nail the aspect which is wrongly depicted by the poster. he is more persistent follower of the cranks than mr d. he is a lab type scientist and mostly reply to chemistry questions. mostly uses adult language with cranks.

    my analysis is result of my observations of "ruthless encounters" between them and cranks here.
    Last edited by precious siraj; April 9th, 2014 at 12:33 PM.
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    Lorbo. I wonder. Are you aware of the petty tyrant theories? Many people fall victim to the Petty Tyrants of the world and being defeated by one means a loss of one's vital energies. Dealing with Petty Tyrants calls for four qualities of warriorship: control, discipline, forbearance and timing. Whereas to be defeated meant to act in anger, and potentially join the ranks of the Petty Tyrants.

    I find your advice heartwarming, and I have no intentions of being like Duck and Phy. I will not join such ranks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    their style is different.
    Mr d analyses line by line. And try to point out fault at least two times to the poster. But if poster is not willing to rectify or answer the points raise by D then Mr D makes his life miserable untill poster say sorry or run away. he is a full time crank buster.

    mr phdemon is my favourite. understand topic thoroughly and nail the aspect which is wrongly depicted by the poster. he is more persistent follower of the cranks than mr d. he is a lab type scientist and mostly reply to chemistry questions. mostly use adult language with cranks.

    my analysis is result of my observations of "ruthless encounters" between them and cranks here.

    It's a power play, he wants to exert power and influence on others, for lack of having such ability in offline life. If he did, he would not spend hours of his time all day trolling people.

    You may support them, but I assure you, whether you believe that people will get what they give or not, they will. And you will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Lorbo. I wonder. Are you aware of the petty tyrant theories? Many people fall victim to the Petty Tyrants of the world and being defeated by one means a loss of one's vital energies. Dealing with Petty Tyrants calls for four qualities of warriorship: control, discipline, forbearance and timing. Whereas to be defeated meant to act in anger, and potentially join the ranks of the Petty Tyrants.

    I find your advice heartwarming, and I have no intentions of being like Duck and Phy. I will not join such ranks!
    Very well. I am done here anyway. I only showed up when I saw your post, since most here jump on the Phi/Duck bandwagon... you're an exception.

    Very well, goodbye, I wish you well. And for your own sake, I would not bother with this site. You may as well cut yourself, since it's the same thing, just allowing others to do it to your verbally. It's not as if you can win here.

    The only way to win is not to play. Here.
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    I wish you would stay or invite me somewhere, Lorbo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorbo View Post

    It's a power play, he wants to exert power and influence on others, for lack of having such ability in offline life. If he did, he would not spend hours of his time all day trolling people.
    unsupported claim. Do you know him in his offline life. And he helps those who are here to learn. just follow his replies you will find yourself.
    I can say safely that Mr D is like filter paper for those who want to check their new theories/ideas on this forum. He is doing community service by saving naive readers of science from unscientific claims made by cranks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorbo View Post
    Honesty Mayflow, forums are a dangerous place. Too often trolls live here. You're better off just using ones for specific questions, like yahoo. Because there people actually try to answer your questions. And phi and duck don't troll that place as often for lack of ability and time/power.
    Yahoo - is that what you are used to? No wonder you dont like it here.... Yahoo is a place for 'opinions' - this is a science forum, opinions dont hold much weight here unless they are supported by some hard evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Some among us are people who have taken a particular interest in a topic and become quite competent even though they're not professionals - or even have a relevant degree.
    I would be one of them.

    Hell, I almost did some scientificy stuff here once, and even used diagrams!:
    Is there REALLY no center to the Universe?
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    Why not look at the discussion Whizkid and I are having about atomic structure? Or some of PhDemon's assistance to people asking chemistry questions?

    There is plenty of real science discussed here. BUT, what happens on those threads is someone comes with a reasonable question or point of view and engages scientifically with those that reply to him or her. Silly notions and people who cannot debate in a scientific way are likely to get a rough ride, unless they make clear they are laypeople looking for help, in which case responders will often go out of their way to educate them patiently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    Why not look at the discussion Whizkid and I are having about atomic structure? Or some of PhDemon's assistance to people asking chemistry questions?

    There is plenty of real science discussed here. BUT, what happens on those threads is someone comes with a reasonable question or point of view and engages scientifically with those that reply to him or her. Silly notions and people who cannot debate in a scientific way are likely to get a rough ride, unless they make clear they are laypeople looking for help, in which case responders will often go out of their way to educate them patiently.
    Give me a link? Tough rides will not bother me if the guys and gals are really getting it on about chemistry and physics, but you need to show me something that seems like they are at least trying to do so. Show me and I may correct my ways, but really you and duck and such have to really show me if you want to educate me, and I need evidence to show me that you can. I only have seen you guys dis at others and yet to see anything of substance for my mind to think on from you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I would like Duck and Phy to be nicer and actually talk about science or what all rather than just being mean to others
    When the topic is science, they talk science like the rest of us.

    When the topic is rubbish, they throw it at the bin.

    A bit sooner and a bit more strongly than many of us, but they're not the only ones. Many of us get around to it sooner or later. They're just the ones with the quickest wits and the sharpest tongues.
    Nah, that's Flick:

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
    What town am I from?
    Dumbassigrad? Moronovsk? Putin's Trousers?
    I'd suffer any amount of abuse for stuff like that. Priceless.

    The members referred to above may have sharp tongues...
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Lorbo. I wonder. Are you aware of the petty tyrant theories? Many people fall victim to the Petty Tyrants of the world and being defeated by one means a loss of one's vital energies. Dealing with Petty Tyrants calls for four qualities of warriorship: control, discipline, forbearance and timing. Whereas to be defeated meant to act in anger, and potentially join the ranks of the Petty Tyrants.

    I find your advice heartwarming, and I have no intentions of being like Duck and Phy. I will not join such ranks!
    Very well. I am done here anyway. I only showed up when I saw your post, since most here jump on the Phi/Duck bandwagon... you're an exception.

    Very well, goodbye, I wish you well. And for your own sake, I would not bother with this site. You may as well cut yourself, since it's the same thing, just allowing others to do it to your verbally. It's not as if you can win here.

    The only way to win is not to play. Here.
    Very defeatist. If you are real about it and can express yourself well enough, why not say it? Be a man and take the abuse if it comes or rise above it or apply some wit. Or do what those two have said they will do to me: 'ignore list!'. At least one these members has been accused of irrational pedantry in another thread - and I still totally agree with myself on this.

    If something compels you to disagree with statements made on here then do so for the sake of getting to the truth of it or to expose the error. I had a long discussion in another thread, 'Intermediary Fossils', wherein I established what I already knew and gave food for thought to those who might otherwise have accepted the party line without question. I don't care if the 'regulars' oppose my views - if only one person is advised of the truth of the matter - or of any reasonable conflicting opinion - or of the misrepresentation of facts - it's worth bothering about.

    Who else will be expressing an alternative view if you don't? Not saying what you think means you concur and leads to apathetic acceptance rather than enlightenment.

    I'm not intending personal criticism, lorbo, just encouraging you to appreciate that there is more at stake than hurt feelings.
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  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Like duck and phy, show me some science or equations? I have never seen any of you actually do what you say you can do. - for the most part I don't think any of you know much at all about science.
    Why not look at the discussion Whizkid and I are having about atomic structure? Or some of PhDemon's assistance to people asking chemistry questions?

    There is plenty of real science discussed here. BUT, what happens on those threads is someone comes with a reasonable question or point of view and engages scientifically with those that reply to him or her. Silly notions and people who cannot debate in a scientific way are likely to get a rough ride, unless they make clear they are laypeople looking for help, in which case responders will often go out of their way to educate them patiently.
    Give me a link? Tough rides will not bother me if the guys and gals are really getting it on about chemistry and physics, but you need to show me something that seems like they are at least trying to do so. Show me and I may correct my ways, but really you and duck and such have to really show me if you want to educate me, and I need evidence to show me that you can. I only have seen you guys dis at others and yet to see anything of substance for my mind to think on from you.
    Order of basic strength

    Effects of electronegativity on the bonding on an ionic compound? AgBr

    How is Hydrogen Cyanide bonded?

    Hydrogen atom

    John G has also given you examples of his contributions, and there is plenty of good stuff around from Markus Hanke, Strange, and many others. I do agree I can't think, offhand, of a similar set of examples for Dywyddyr. Not sure what his speciality is. And it is true there are some less useful people around too, not to mention a few madmen, but that's to be expected.

    All it takes is an appropriate approach: a rational query or point of view, expressed undogmatically and supported where needed, and a willingness to engage with the responses in a scientific way.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I do agree I can't think, offhand, of a similar set of examples for Dywyddyr. Not sure what his speciality is.
    Seems to be something to do with military hardware and weapons of mass destruction defence systems.
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    I've kept out of this thread as I didn't think the whining of pseudoscientists and woo-merchants needed any input from me, however, to address the "present an equation" whinge in post #5 I offer this:

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/trash...tml#post550760

    where I describe some of the work I've been involved with in the context of addressing the idea that reality is never as simple as we would like...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    The ways the mind actually works are intriguing. Or at least how the brain works. Get somebody drunk, do they change and how? I have that chatbot software program - amazing how people talk there! Usually not in good ways. Usually meaner and needier than they want to let on.

    The physical science is iffy too, Adelady. None of it is completely proven. See, this is how we would think if scientific. Question things, investigate things. Be inquisitive. My current interests in the physical sciences revolve around nuclear fusion as the future electric source for the Earth, and trying to make sense out of what we see from long range and outerspace telescope information. Of course, I have a wide range of interests as the mind likes to have the Invigoration of it all - this for the most part does not get stimulated by people calling others dumb and cracks and not contributing to growth of ideas, or banning those who dare to be on their own wavelengths.
    Mayflow, I need to take up something you say here, as it may possibly shed some light on your frustrations with this forum.

    You write that "none of it [physical science] is proven." But in science, nothing can ever be proven true, only proven false. This is because however many observations you make that corroborate a theory, there is still the possibility of a future one that does not fit - thereby showing that the theory is incomplete or defective in some way. The whole history of science shows that this happens all the time - and indeed it is the reason why people still do science: we do not have all the answers. Theories in science are mere models of reality. It seems it me we approach the "truth" asymptotically. Perhaps our models will never perfectly capture physical reality, but they get better all the time.

    BUT, and it is a big BUT, acknowledging that we work with potentially incomplete models is not remotely the same as accepting alternative theories on equal terms. In science, theories are accepted in proportion to the degree they have been corroborated (not proved, mind, but corroborated) by observation, and in particular, by their ability to predict what future observations could be made to corroborate them further.

    This is the part that separates science from pseudo-science and from fanciful assertions that are getting ahead of themselves. This is really what Feynman or whoever it was had in mind when they famously said: "Keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out". That is the balance we try to strike in science. It is not closed minded to call for objective observations - or predictions - to support a new theory. It is a crucial challenge process for quality control in science.

    And it has to be said that all too often, posters come here with notions (often well-known ones we've seen before) that don't remotely meet these criteria. This is very frustrating to scientists and they understandably can often get annoyed by it.
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  62. #61  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    but really you and duck and such have to really show me if you want to educate me, and I need evidence to show me that you can. I only have seen you guys dis at others and yet to see anything of substance for my mind to think on from you.
    You're missing the point. Again.
    Firstly you have to give some indication that YOU are genuine.
    You don't do that by making bullshit claims, failing to support them and then whining when called on it.
    If you're not going to honest why should Ph and I "educate" you?
    (Especially given that you've also managed to bullshit in your own supposed subject).

    You've shown a lamentable lack of critical faculties, likewise with rational faculties: both of these are a sine qua non for science.
    If you haven't got them you're just deluding yourself (and attempting to delude others by claiming you want to "be scientific").
    tk421, RedPanda, PhDemon and 3 others like this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    The ways the mind actually works are intriguing. Or at least how the brain works. Get somebody drunk, do they change and how? I have that chatbot software program - amazing how people talk there! Usually not in good ways. Usually meaner and needier than they want to let on.

    The physical science is iffy too, Adelady. None of it is completely proven. See, this is how we would think if scientific. Question things, investigate things. Be inquisitive. My current interests in the physical sciences revolve around nuclear fusion as the future electric source for the Earth, and trying to make sense out of what we see from long range and outerspace telescope information. Of course, I have a wide range of interests as the mind likes to have the Invigoration of it all - this for the most part does not get stimulated by people calling others dumb and cracks and not contributing to growth of ideas, or banning those who dare to be on their own wavelengths.
    Mayflow, I need to take up something you say here, as it may possibly shed some light on your frustrations with this forum.

    You write that "none of it [physical science] is proven." But in science, nothing can ever be proven true, only proven false. This is because however many observations you make that corroborate a theory, there is still the possibility of a future one that does not fit - thereby showing that the theory is incomplete or defective in some way. The whole history of science shows that this happens all the time - and indeed it is the reason why people still do science: we do not have all the answers. Theories in science are mere models of reality. It seems it me we approach the "truth" asymptotically. Perhaps our models will never perfectly capture physical reality, but they get better all the time.

    BUT, and it is a big BUT, acknowledging that we work with potentially incomplete models is not remotely the same as accepting alternative theories on equal terms. In science, theories are accepted in proportion to the degree they have been corroborated (not proved, mind, but corroborated) by observation, and in particular, by their ability to predict what future observations could be made to corroborate them further.

    This is the part that separates science from pseudo-science and from fanciful assertions that are getting ahead of themselves. This is really what Feynman or whoever it was had in mind when they famously said: "Keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out". That is the balance we try to strike in science. It is not closed minded to call for objective observations - or predictions - to support a new theory. It is a crucial challenge process for quality control in science.

    And it has to be said that all too often, posters come here with notions (often well-known ones we've seen before) that don't remotely meet these criteria. This is very frustrating to scientists and they understandably can often get annoyed by it.
    What I am most interested in at present is nuclear fusion and dark matter and energy. I find these fascinating. Also RF energy including light frequencies. That is the stuff I like to talk about in science, but anything can be interesting. I also like philosophy, some psychology, and writing poetry, but that stuff I think is better suited to other types of forums.
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  64. #63  
    exchemist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    The ways the mind actually works are intriguing. Or at least how the brain works. Get somebody drunk, do they change and how? I have that chatbot software program - amazing how people talk there! Usually not in good ways. Usually meaner and needier than they want to let on.

    The physical science is iffy too, Adelady. None of it is completely proven. See, this is how we would think if scientific. Question things, investigate things. Be inquisitive. My current interests in the physical sciences revolve around nuclear fusion as the future electric source for the Earth, and trying to make sense out of what we see from long range and outerspace telescope information. Of course, I have a wide range of interests as the mind likes to have the Invigoration of it all - this for the most part does not get stimulated by people calling others dumb and cracks and not contributing to growth of ideas, or banning those who dare to be on their own wavelengths.
    Mayflow, I need to take up something you say here, as it may possibly shed some light on your frustrations with this forum.

    You write that "none of it [physical science] is proven." But in science, nothing can ever be proven true, only proven false. This is because however many observations you make that corroborate a theory, there is still the possibility of a future one that does not fit - thereby showing that the theory is incomplete or defective in some way. The whole history of science shows that this happens all the time - and indeed it is the reason why people still do science: we do not have all the answers. Theories in science are mere models of reality. It seems it me we approach the "truth" asymptotically. Perhaps our models will never perfectly capture physical reality, but they get better all the time.

    BUT, and it is a big BUT, acknowledging that we work with potentially incomplete models is not remotely the same as accepting alternative theories on equal terms. In science, theories are accepted in proportion to the degree they have been corroborated (not proved, mind, but corroborated) by observation, and in particular, by their ability to predict what future observations could be made to corroborate them further.

    This is the part that separates science from pseudo-science and from fanciful assertions that are getting ahead of themselves. This is really what Feynman or whoever it was had in mind when they famously said: "Keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out". That is the balance we try to strike in science. It is not closed minded to call for objective observations - or predictions - to support a new theory. It is a crucial challenge process for quality control in science.

    And it has to be said that all too often, posters come here with notions (often well-known ones we've seen before) that don't remotely meet these criteria. This is very frustrating to scientists and they understandably can often get annoyed by it.
    What I am most interested in at present is nuclear fusion and dark matter and energy. I find these fascinating. Also RF energy including light frequencies. That is the stuff I like to talk about in science, but anything can be interesting. I also like philosophy, some psychology, and writing poetry, but that stuff I think is better suited to other types of forums.
    Well as a chemist I know a bit about the interaction of radiation and matter. But nuclear fusion and dark matter needs a proper physicist and/or cosmologist. We have those here (or credible facsimiles thereof, at least).
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  65. #64  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    The only way to win is not to play. Here.
    You quite miss the point if you think this is about winning or losing. This is about respecting the scientific method
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