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View Poll Results: Would you like Neverfly to return?

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  • Yes.

    6 40.00%
  • No.

    9 60.00%
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  • 6 Post By Daecon
  • 1 Post By KALSTER
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  • 6 Post By Cogito Ergo Sum
  • 9 Post By Janus
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Thread: Would you like Neverfly to return?

  1. #1 Would you like Neverfly to return? 
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
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    There is already a thread for talking about Neverfly, I thought a straight up-down poll...


    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  3. #2  
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    Moderating forums is a control on free speech. It amounts to mass mind control of the public . It's purposses are questionable. The opinions of the masses are then rendered inaccurate. People who are banned by these moderations are heros. In neverfly's case you should just allow bent of stupid people to talk sometimes. To ease the pressure if nothing else. For what kind of people use these fprums anyway. Only depresed and lonley. (FM)


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seti Santa View Post
    For what kind of people use these fprums anyway. Only depresed and lonley.
    So I take it that by deciding to post here you have become one of us. Welcome to the club of the depressed and lonely

    P.S. A bit of spell-checking sure wouldn't go amiss when you post on a public forum. People might get the wrong impression...
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  5. #4  
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    Generally our own upbringing, environment and culture determines just how much of our "speech" is truly free.

    I volunteer part-time in a charity shop, I would never say "You take too long looking around, buy something and/or f**k off" to anyone, ever. If my "free speech" being restricted then it's me myself who's restricting it.

    An internet forum where everyone else is just "words on a screen" tricks people into thinking what they say doesn't matter because they themselves will never have to experience the consequences of those words.

    Because people forget they should control their own speech even if it's just words on a screen, moderators have to exist.
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  6. #5  
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    Daecon: What you're saying here is getting into the degrees of moderation that are nessesary. An infinite slope. Internet moderation at this point is way out of hand. Who moderates the moderators? Suspensions and banning ang controls over free speech amounts to punishment in the case of suspensions and banning for speech. Try that at home with your kids sometime. Getting back to moderating, blogs have there own views today which are solely the views of paid moderators.And is they look idle for a second they are no longer moderators. They tell you that their webpage is soley at their discressions to start and that you must agree to that. So from there on free speech has no place. The outward appearance of such websites is that it is all free speach,therfore giveing false impressions to the readers. Sort of like free press only with continual goverment censorship and some views from their sponsors.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seti Santa View Post
    Daecon: What you're saying here is getting into the degrees of moderation that are nessesary. An infinite slope. Internet moderation at this point is way out of hand. Who moderates the moderators? Suspensions and banning ang controls over free speech amounts to punishment in the case of suspensions and banning for speech. Try that at home with your kids sometime. Getting back to moderating, blogs have there own views today which are solely the views of paid moderators.And is they look idle for a second they are no longer moderators. They tell you that their webpage is soley at their discressions to start and that you must agree to that. So from there on free speech has no place. The outward appearance of such websites is that it is all free speach,therfore giveing false impressions to the readers. Sort of like free press only with continual goverment censorship and some views from their sponsors.
    Paid moderators. Haha, if only.

    Unless you are a sock puppet, you have no idea what is going on around here.

    Edit: Oh would you look at that. Hill Billy Holmes. Goodbye.
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  8. #7  
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    Moderating forums is a control on free speech.
    Internet forums are not a democracy. Live with it.

    Also it is obvious that Seti Santa, with 3 posts, is a sock puppet. Why is it not suspended yet?
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Edit: Oh would you look at that. Hill Billy Holmes. Goodbye.
    He seems to be one of the more persistent nut jobs we've had around here, how many sock puppets is that now? Is he into double figures yet?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Edit: Oh would you look at that. Hill Billy Holmes. Goodbye.
    He seems to be one of the more persistent nut jobs we've had around here, how many sock puppets is that now? Is he into double figures yet?
    Not yet, but don't encourage him.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  11. #10  
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    this thread is ridiculous
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    this thread is ridiculous
    but in demand
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  13. #12  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    I find the poll not very specific.

    Where do I want him to return to? His mother's womb? Poland? Do I want his molecules to be reabsorbed by mother nature? Do I want him to return to this forum?

    I vote yes, no, maybe, yes, no; in random order.
    babe and dinky like this.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    @ spuriousmonkey

    It's been a long time since you've been around these parts.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post

    Unless you are a sock puppet, you have no idea what is going on around here.

    Edit: Oh would you look at that. Hill Billy Holmes. Goodbye.
    How did you know about the sock puppet thing?
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  16. #15  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    He can check IPs.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    He can check IPs.
    Can anyone do that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Generally our own upbringing, environment and culture determines just how much of our "speech" is truly free.

    I volunteer part-time in a charity shop, I would never say "You take too long looking around, buy something and/or f**k off" to anyone, ever. If my "free speech" being restricted then it's me myself who's restricting it.

    An internet forum where everyone else is just "words on a screen" tricks people into thinking what they say doesn't matter because they themselves will never have to experience the consequences of those words.

    Because people forget they should control their own speech even if it's just words on a screen, moderators have to exist.
    Yes sir, these are fine and uplifting words, I only hope they can pierce the armor of human arrogance, like cupid can.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    He can check IPs.
    Can anyone do that?
    Yes, but not through the boards. It's fairly simple to find a person's IP if you have the right info. You can even locate them on a map. I tracked down the person who hacked my WoW account, for instance.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    He can check IPs.
    Can anyone do that?
    I checked his IP through the Mod Control panel.

    No idea how to do what Flick is talking about though. (Flick, please don't tell anyone how to do it )
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    No idea how to do what Flick is talking about though.
    It's surprisingly easy if you can get hold of an email sent by that person...
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    @ spuriousmonkeyIt's been a long time since you've been around these parts.
    We agreed long ago not to speak about Spurious's round parts!
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seti Santa View Post
    Who moderates the moderators?
    Website owners.
    Suspensions and banning ang controls over free speech amounts to punishment in the case of suspensions and banning for speech. Try that at home with your kids sometime.
    Most parents manage to keep their kids from cursing all day.
    The outward appearance of such websites is that it is all free speach
    The Internet is entirely free. Start any forum you want and say whatever you want. It is equivalent to the sidewalk in your community.
    Once someone builds a site they own it. They get to decide what goes on there. It is equivalent to your living room.

    Example. Let's say I invite a bunch of people over to my house for dinner. Someone brings you as a friend. OK fine. Then you stand up on the table and start saying "DEATH TO AMERICA! The infidel scum has stained this planet for too long! I call on all free men to destroy the cancer that is . . . ." I ask you to leave. You reply "Hell no! I have freedom of speech."

    Who is right there?
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  24. #23  
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    Yes, the poll is a bit limited. Perhaps add: ○ Maybe, ○ Not right now, etc.

    ###

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    It's fairly simple to find a person's IP if you have the right info. You can even locate them on a map.
    How specific is locating someone on a map from their IP? I would guess city/region at least, but I thought IPs were randomly/quasi-randomly assigned.

    ###

    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Unless you are a sock puppet, you have no idea what is going on around here.

    Edit: Oh would you look at that. Hill Billy Holmes. Goodbye.
    In having to deal with a widening spectrum of personalities, technical issues and everything else, it's nice to see a sense of humor among the top brass.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Seti Santa View Post
    Who moderates the moderators?
    Website owners.
    Suspensions and banning ang controls over free speech amounts to punishment in the case of suspensions and banning for speech. Try that at home with your kids sometime.
    Most parents manage to keep their kids from cursing all day.
    The outward appearance of such websites is that it is all free speach
    The Internet is entirely free. Start any forum you want and say whatever you want. It is equivalent to the sidewalk in your community.
    Once someone builds a site they own it. They get to decide what goes on there. It is equivalent to your living room.

    Example. Let's say I invite a bunch of people over to my house for dinner. Someone brings you as a friend. OK fine. Then you stand up on the table and start saying "DEATH TO AMERICA! The infidel scum has stained this planet for too long! I call on all free men to destroy the cancer that is . . . ." I ask you to leave. You reply "Hell no! I have freedom of speech."

    Who is right there?
    I like this analogy.

    It's called science forum for a reason, if you go too far out of the topic of the forum too often, it makes sense you have no business here and should leave, if not by yourself, then with a little help from mods.

    I'm new here, no idea about neverfly.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ... Most parents manage to keep their kids from cursing all day. ...
    My sons went through a phase where they cursed a lot. So, i challenged them to write a 3 page essay wherein every other word was a curse word.
    It was great fun, and destroyed the concept that they could get a rise out of me by cursing.

    ................
    moderators
    moderate
    If we should fail to be moderate on our own.

    like herding cats?
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    I checked his IP through the Mod Control panel.

    Spam-O-matic feature? Checking IPs? Moderator Control Panel?
    I now have this image in my head when I think about the Staff:


    (Mission Control in the JSC​)


    PS: I voted "no".
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    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    I checked his IP through the Mod Control panel.

    Spam-O-matic feature? Checking IPs? Moderator Control Panel?
    I now have this image in my head when I think about the Staff:


    Err, more like this:



    (Mission Control in the JSC​)
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


    Edit/Delete Message
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  29. #28  
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    NO.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post

    Err, more like this:



    (Mission Control in the JSC​)
    Ha ha, this made my day...brilliant :-D
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post

    Err, more like this:



    (Mission Control in the JSC​)
    JANUS:

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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    @ spuriousmonkeyIt's been a long time since you've been around these parts.
    We agreed long ago not to speak about Spurious's round parts!
    The world isn't flat. Neither are my parts.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    In having to deal with a widening spectrum of personalities, technical issues and everything else, it's nice to see a sense of humor among the top brass.
    It's more like one of those toy Sheriff's badges, but thanks.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    In having to deal with a widening spectrum of personalities, technical issues and everything else, it's nice to see a sense of humor among the top brass.
    It's more like one of those toy Sheriff's badges, but thanks.
    Hey come on give yourselves some credit, we wouldn't all want to come here if you guys were doing a crap job.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    In having to deal with a widening spectrum of personalities, technical issues and everything else, it's nice to see a sense of humor among the top brass.
    It's more like one of those toy Sheriff's badges, but thanks.
    Hey come on give yourselves some credit, we wouldn't all want to come here if you guys were doing a crap job.
    Not saying we're doing a poor job or that I am not honoured to perform these duties, just that it is not like I can put this in a resume or anything. Wish I could.
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  36. #35  
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    Why not? On a skills based CV it would tick the "Administrative experience", "IT skills", "Communication skills", "Team working" and I'm sure with a bit of thought a number of other transferable skills which employers are looking for could be covered. Put a bit of spin on it and milk it man!
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    In having to deal with a widening spectrum of personalities, technical issues and everything else, it's nice to see a sense of humor among the top brass.
    It's more like one of those toy Sheriff's badges, but thanks.
    Hey come on give yourselves some credit, we wouldn't all want to come here if you guys were doing a crap job.
    Not saying we're doing a poor job or that I am not honoured to perform these duties, just that it is not like I can put this in a resume or anything. Wish I could.
    It seems a shame that one, but I would hope you wouldn't have to much problem getting another job should you wish one. I would think the biggest issue would be getting a work permit to work abroad, after your post last week I did have a good look into that in the hope of perhaps pursuading you to set your sights on the UK.
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  38. #37  
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    just added my moderator position to my LinkedIn profile
    can't see why that should be frowned upon

    my only problem is i can't quite remember how long ago it all started
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    just added my moderator position to my LinkedIn profile
    can't see why that should be frowned upon

    my only problem is i can't quite remember how long ago it all started

    I would perhaps offer a slight word of caution with that one though if you are actively looking for a new job though, just like with facebook the first thing a potential new employer is likely to do is check it out. Now since most people try to tailor their CV to a particular job to portray them in the best possible terms of suitability for a particular job you can probably see that thousands of 'untaliored' posts runs the risk of changing the perception and or their being something there off putting to the potential new employer.

    You have to bare in mind that someone might well not have had the time to understand the context in which things were said or the type of personality involved, so there is a risk factor here to be aware of.
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  40. #39  
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    i tend to be fairly civilised on the 2 TSF sites, so i'm reasonably ok with that - better not tell them of my activities on spuriousforums though !
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  41. #40  
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    What has Neverfly done ?
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  42. #41  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    I’m not fully aware of why Neverfly was banned. (and I’m not asking for details, nor interested, to be honest) So, I say this without knowing all the details…Yes, I’d like to see him return. Even though there were times when I didn’t see where he was coming from, or I jumped to the wrong conclusion based on comments he may have posted, I liked his detailed way of bringing home a point. For someone like me, it is intriguing -- his and others' approaches here. I’m capable of debating others, but I tend to flee conflict as an automatic response, more than anything. It is how I’ve handled conflict since I was a kid, by NOT handling it. Haha So…someone like Neverfly…and others like him here, I’ve learned that conflict isn’t such a ‘bad’ thing, it’s perhaps anecessary part of life. As I said, I don’t know the reasoning behind his ban, but that’s just my thoughts to it. Plus, he and seagypsy were the first to ‘welcome’(for lack of a better word) me to this site, when I first joined, so there’s some bias there.
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  43. #42  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    What has Neverfly done ?

    Member KALSTER has explained this in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    The general view is that while Neverfly can and often does make substantive contributions to the forum, all too often he becomes the center of controversy after making adversarial comments that escalate into the forum equivalent of shouting matches, self-centered claims often dismissive of other's feelings, inability to self-reflect, mixed in with open hostility and distrust of moderators and administrators.

    There have been repeated attempts to encourage Neverfly to join as a civil member of the forum, a member concerned enough to recognize that some subjects are inherently sensitive and deserves appropriate caveats and careful diligence to keep conversations rolling rather than being swallowed up in emotion. Pages of commentary between members and staff alongside several temporary suspensions have not been effective, and instead, been perceived as secretive, conspiratorial and sore points to continue to refer to long after others have moved on.

    (Bold mine)
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  44. #43  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I’m not fully aware of why Neverfly was banned. (and I’m not asking for details, nor interested, to be honest) So, I say this without knowing all the details…Yes, I’d like to see him return. Even though there were times when I didn’t see where he was coming from, or I jumped to the wrong conclusion based on comments he may have posted, I liked his detailed way of bringing home a point. For someone like me, it is intriguing -- his and others' approaches here. I’m capable of debating others, but I tend to flee conflict as an automatic response, more than anything. It is how I’ve handled conflict since I was a kid, by NOT handling it. Haha So…someone like Neverfly…and others like him here, I’ve learned that conflict isn’t such a ‘bad’ thing, it’s perhaps anecessary part of life. As I said, I don’t know the reasoning behind his ban, but that’s just my thoughts to it. Plus, he and seagypsy were the first to ‘welcome’(for lack of a better word) me to this site, when I first joined, so there’s some bias there.
    I would say having the full data on why something happened would be good for making this decision.
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  45. #44  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post

    I would say having the full data on why something happened would be good for making this decision.
    One of the unfortunate realities of life is we are so very rarely afforded the luxury of 'full data' before having to make decisions.
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  46. #45  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post

    I would say having the full data on why something happened would be good for making this decision.
    One of the unfortunate realities of life is we are so very rarely afforded the luxury of 'full data' before having to make decisions.
    There is however a large amount of information available in the thread on why the banning happened from which a fuller understanding can be gleaned before making a decision.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  47. #46  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post

    I would say having the full data on why something happened would be good for making this decision.
    One of the unfortunate realities of life is we are so very rarely afforded the luxury of 'full data' before having to make decisions.
    There is however a large amount of information available in the thread on why the banning happened from which a fuller understanding can be gleaned before making a decision.
    Was the question in some way ambiguous? Personally I thought it had to do with whether individual members wanted to see Neverfly return. Perhaps I must have missed the part asking for a critical analysis regarding "why the banning happened".
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  48. #47  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    In my opinion its important to understand the reason, and the reason that others may disagree with the return. I do not mean to be rude on the subject, but I am not a fan of making a decision based on a lack of information.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  49. #48  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    In my opinion its important to understand the reason, and the reason that others may disagree with the return. I do not mean to be rude on the subject, but I am not a fan of making a decision based on a lack of information.
    Fair enough
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  50. #49  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    With any decision such as this one, it boils down to some will wish to see the person return, others won’t—despite the ‘evidence’ presented against the banned person. Such is life. At the end of the day, it is up to the discretion of the site mods/administration.

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  51. #50  
    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    What has Neverfly done ?

    Member KALSTER has explained this in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    The general view is that while Neverfly can and often does make substantive contributions to the forum, all too often he becomes the center of controversy after making adversarial comments that escalate into the forum equivalent of shouting matches, self-centered claims often dismissive of other's feelings, inability to self-reflect, mixed in with open hostility and distrust of moderators and administrators.

    There have been repeated attempts to encourage Neverfly to join as a civil member of the forum, a member concerned enough to recognize that some subjects are inherently sensitive and deserves appropriate caveats and careful diligence to keep conversations rolling rather than being swallowed up in emotion. Pages of commentary between members and staff alongside several temporary suspensions have not been effective, and instead, been perceived as secretive, conspiratorial and sore points to continue to refer to long after others have moved on.

    (Bold mine)
    OK Dude, thanks for that. I did give Neverfly a " Yes " vote. I reckon that he would come back as a reformed character.
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