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Thread: Could Not Take the "Whipping" Any Longer

  1. #1 Could Not Take the "Whipping" Any Longer 
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    "Whipped" by John Galt, my back so sore, I may puke. Yer all fucking wimps iof you continue to take the shit from these mods. Love you all......joc


     

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    I certainly hope that this is a temp suspension issued and not a perm-ban.

    We all not only are capable of losing our tempers, but should be afforded to do so if feeling pushed, enough. Without taking sides, this has been apparent in coming for a little while as I watched Jocular creeping closer to the edge.
    After-all, when a Mod loses that mods temper, that's not really punished.
    But if a member does it- they get hammered.

    A little cool off time could do a lot of us some good. But if Jocular is Perm-Banned, I think a great many of us must be as well.

    I submit that this thread be moved to a Mod Only area.


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  4. #3  
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    Neverfly, I just checked for you.

    jocular's ban is for 3 days only. For profanity. (You may be surprised to learn that neither I nor JG had anything to do with it.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
     

  5. #4  
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    What a crazy touchy sandbox you have here. Enjoy it while you're young. If you must. Carry on.
     

  6. #5  
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    Why in the world do you guys get so worked up about an internet forum? I'd hate to be the cop that pulls one of you over...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Why in the world do you guys get so worked up about an internet forum? I'd hate to be the cop that pulls one of you over...
    Not me. Sexual harassment had me too flabbergasted and bewildered to take offense. Besides it meant the ban hammer was inevitable and suspensions followed the culprit (whom still frigin' PM's me!) elsewhere.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Neverfly, I just checked for you.

    jocular's ban is for 3 days only. For profanity. (You may be surprised to learn that neither I nor JG had anything to do with it.)
    Not surprised, at all. Adelady, I'll say right out I have nothing but confidence in your moderator abilities. We don't always agree, but you are one who posts with a rational calm I can seem to only admire and never emulate.
    And I may have an issue with John Galt, I could never accuse him of personally banning a member for personal reasons.

    I learned after I made this post in this thread what had happened and I addressed it there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Why in the world do you guys get so worked up about an internet forum? I'd hate to be the cop that pulls one of you over...
    It's not about the Internet or a forum... It's about the state of the world and our lives in it. If a person sees something that they think is wrong, it hits close to home.
    Think of insurance companies really screwing you over.
    Think of all the times you felt treated unfairly or badly by a position of authority but they bullied you into submission with fines or threats.
    When a person perceives it, they feel a strong urge to stand up to it, to not allow it to happen.

    Sometimes, it's a strong enough difference in perception that many people will join in. For example, a gay couple in California in which one man was in the hospital and his husband was disallowed from visiting him because they were not "Properly Married." The man died and the State took his possessions, while his husband was again, disallowed from the right to handle the estate.
    It's a perceive injustice that will get people worked up and it's inevitable that if a person is perceiving injustice and they speak - and they then get hammered, threatened, spoken down to or pretty much anything less than someone simply listening, that they will probably really let 'em have it.
     

  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It's a perceive injustice that will get people worked up and it's inevitable that if a person is perceiving injustice and they speak - and they then get hammered, threatened, spoken down to or pretty much anything less than someone simply listening, that they will probably really let 'em have it.
    You're not getting hammered, threatened, spoken down to, even though you are talking about injustices.

    This is a science forum, better than most open forums due to the tighter moderation. There are plenty of other forums one can go to to flame politicians, bully other people or call each other names.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You're not getting hammered, threatened, spoken down to, even though you are talking about injustices.

    This is a science forum, better than most open forums due to the tighter moderation. There are plenty of other forums one can go to to flame politicians, bully other people or call each other names.
    You have no idea what was just being discussed, do you?

    No Billvon; I'm going to just sit here and Bully you. No, really... Gonna bully you hardcore. Gimmie your lunch money, runt.
     

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    Bitcoin bully!
     

  12. #11  
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    somedays
    it just ain't worth chewing through the restraints
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    Meh, I generally find JG favorable in his administrative doings. The ban was warranted, I hope joc will return with less animosity... Both joc and JG amuse me quite frequently, both also helpful to the forum.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
     

  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I certainly hope that this is a temp suspension issued and not a perm-ban.

    We all not only are capable of losing our tempers, but should be afforded to do so if feeling pushed, enough. Without taking sides, this has been apparent in coming for a little while as I watched Jocular creeping closer to the edge.
    After-all, when a Mod loses that mods temper, that's not really punished.
    But if a member does it- they get hammered.

    A little cool off time could do a lot of us some good. But if Jocular is Perm-Banned, I think a great many of us must be as well.

    I submit that this thread be moved to a Mod Only area.

    Hey it's nice to see you sticking up for him. I'm also glad to hear his suspension isn't permanent, really don't like to see people getting banned unless they really deserve it.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    "Whipped" by John Galt, my back so sore, I may puke. Yer all fucking wimps iof you continue to take the shit from these mods. Love you all......joc
    it looks sad.
     

  16. #15  
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    I'm a tad worried about JohnGalt.
    Is he going through a rough patch in his life?
    Is he a tad crankier than normal, or does it just seem so to me because he cranked at some of my postings?
     

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    Well, he might have been a bit tired. He's been teaching a course (in Dubai? somewhere anyway) the last couple of weeks. And there have been a couple of really, really irritating moderator issues with a few threads/ members just lately.

    Moderators are human after all.

    Giving all of us credit where it's due, and a bit of a break at other times, would be a nice change. (At least that's the way I see it.)

    We have limited scope, limited time and various limits to our tolerance and our patience. And, worst of all, we lack a global team of kind people to rush about to soothe all those hurt feelings and bruised egos that erupt from time to time. Our own included.
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    Adelady I think that is a perfectly reasonable as requests go. I think you'll have to forgive us if sometimes we seem to hold you guys to higher standards you are perfectly correct you are only human, also you guys got alot on your plate at the moment with the forum being spammed to death. So yeah certainly I think we should at leat try and cut you guys some slack, also we do appreciate the hardwork, time and effort you guys put in.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I'm a tad worried about JohnGalt.
    Is he going through a rough patch in his life?
    Is he a tad crankier than normal, or does it just seem so to me because he cranked at some of my postings?
    I'm not a "tad" worried about him!
    As far as I'm concerned his attitude, to a considerable number of your posts, should be applauded.
     

  20. #19  
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    Don't get me wrong here. I actually like ophiolite/John Galt===?
    (ergo my concern)
    When it comes to his area of expertise, there are few better in understanding and communicating.
    And, of course, i appreciate this site and the efforts of the moderators.

    He did have a bit of a problem understanding the way and why I began the operant conditioning thread, but sea gypsy almost instantly understood what i had keyboarded in, and why i had proceeded as I had. (somewhere in there, he began to take a personal umbrage to the chosen communication style, beyond, what i perceived as normal---for him, ... .
    On the proposed subject I simply wanted feedback independent of my concepts on the subject---subset - set and superset------or message / meta-message. ergo, I began the thread as limitlessly as I could.

    Anyway, I took no offense, and hope that he is well and well rested.

    The esoteric point that he made by referencing Finnegan's wake was nicely done.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Don't get me wrong here. I actually like ophiolite/John Galt===?
    (ergo my concern)
    When it comes to his area of expertise, there are few better in understanding and communicating.
    And, of course, i appreciate this site and the efforts of the moderators.

    He did have a bit of a problem understanding the way and why I began the operant conditioning thread, but sea gypsy almost instantly understood what i had keyboarded in, and why i had proceeded as I had. (somewhere in there, he began to take a personal umbrage to the chosen communication style, beyond, what i perceived as normal---for him, ... .
    On the proposed subject I simply wanted feedback independent of my concepts on the subject---subset - set and superset------or message / meta-message. ergo, I began the thread as limitlessly as I could.

    Anyway, I took no offense, and hope that he is well and well rested.

    The esoteric point that he made by referencing Finnegan's wake was nicely done.
    More posts written like that, please!
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Don't get me wrong here. I actually like ophiolite/John Galt===?
    (ergo my concern)
    When it comes to his area of expertise, there are few better in understanding and communicating.
    And, of course, i appreciate this site and the efforts of the moderators.

    He did have a bit of a problem understanding the way and why I began the operant conditioning thread, but sea gypsy almost instantly understood what i had keyboarded in, and why i had proceeded as I had. (somewhere in there, he began to take a personal umbrage to the chosen communication style, beyond, what i perceived as normal---for him, ... .
    On the proposed subject I simply wanted feedback independent of my concepts on the subject---subset - set and superset------or message / meta-message. ergo, I began the thread as limitlessly as I could.

    Anyway, I took no offense, and hope that he is well and well rested.

    The esoteric point that he made by referencing Finnegan's wake was nicely done.

    You do kinda of get the feeling with John that he just wants to get the best out of people, yeah sure he's gonna get pissed off like the rest of us over certain things, even more so if you pull his chain, but in general we can learn quite alot from him and he will put himself out to teach people things if they are responding in the correct manner. But yeah now and again his bark comes across worse than his bite lol.
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    Well, if everyone's going to talk about the man... I will, too.

    I have tried, numerous times, to create some kind of peace with him. He's not having it- instead, I'd get sniped in threads and vigorous angry rants sent to my PM inbox. He couldn't Calm Down long enough to see what was right in front of him.
    I respect his knowledge on Geology- but I have no respect left for the man himself. He's presented himself as stubborn and obtuse and suggesting that people need to address him in "the correct manner" implies that he was in control of himself and others were acting badly.
    I disagree.
    Most of the time, Galt was acting badly. He'd go from one extreme to the other- suggesting ways of us acting better and then porrly expressing that suggestion with really bad behavior.
    It probably galls him to no end how much he is like me.

    I've read others make excuses for him, here. I've read that maybe people need to give the mods a break.

    Come on. No Excuses. Do members get all those benefits of excuses? Do We get a break? We get Warnings, Ignores or suspensions. John Galt has NEVER gotten a suspension. He gets defended, every time.

    I've given John Galt at least Four Separate "handed to him on a silver platter" opportunities to stop trying so hard to be my enemy and he's spat each one back with venom. In addition to the olive branches I extended him, I've acknowledged what appeared, at the time, to be honorable acts on his part publicly, such as his "Self Bans" and not personally banning members he has an issue with (Instead he appeals to others to ban them).
    It got more spite thrown my way.
    The man does not need excuses and condescending placation- He needs a Wake Up Call. He needs someone to thoroughly dress him down get him to Snap Out of it. I'm not that guy- I'm just a Mere Member and whenever I have the Audacity to Confront the Venerable John Galt, I get slammed with his Clique of at least Five People defending the hell out of him regardless of his poor behavior.

    This is my perception based on his trashing me every chance he gets and sniping me and then pointing the finger and accusing me of picking on Him. All because he's pissed off because I called him out for his Bad Behavior sometime back. If he had clarity of thought, he'd simply address that behavior and move on. Instead, he chose to vilify me and jump at every opportunity to raise hell with me and this has gone on for many, many months.

    I have no respect for the man, no ear for excuses on his behalf and am thoroughly disgusted by his self justified attacking of other members with veiled wording and totally getting away with it each and every single time.

    No, one doesn't approach John Galt/Ophiolite/Whatever other sock puppets he uses and gets away with in a "Correct Manner." One approaches him with their guard raised on full because odds are he's going to Bark, Bite, Snap and growl and then accuse YOU of being the troublesome one.
     

  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Well, if everyone's going to talk about the man... I will, too.

    I have tried, numerous times, to create some kind of peace with him. He's not having it- instead, I'd get sniped in threads and vigorous angry rants sent to my PM inbox. He couldn't Calm Down long enough to see what was right in front of him.
    I respect his knowledge on Geology- but I have no respect left for the man himself. He's presented himself as stubborn and obtuse and suggesting that people need to address him in "the correct manner" implies that he was in control of himself and others were acting badly.
    I disagree.
    Most of the time, Galt was acting badly. He'd go from one extreme to the other- suggesting ways of us acting better and then porrly expressing that suggestion with really bad behavior.
    It probably galls him to no end how much he is like me.

    I've read others make excuses for him, here. I've read that maybe people need to give the mods a break.

    Come on. No Excuses. Do members get all those benefits of excuses? Do We get a break? We get Warnings, Ignores or suspensions. John Galt has NEVER gotten a suspension. He gets defended, every time.

    I've given John Galt at least Four Separate "handed to him on a silver platter" opportunities to stop trying so hard to be my enemy and he's spat each one back with venom. In addition to the olive branches I extended him, I've acknowledged what appeared, at the time, to be honorable acts on his part publicly, such as his "Self Bans" and not personally banning members he has an issue with (Instead he appeals to others to ban them).
    It got more spite thrown my way.
    The man does not need excuses and condescending placation- He needs a Wake Up Call. He needs someone to thoroughly dress him down get him to Snap Out of it. I'm not that guy- I'm just a Mere Member and whenever I have the Audacity to Confront the Venerable John Galt, I get slammed with his Clique of at least Five People defending the hell out of him regardless of his poor behavior.

    This is my perception based on his trashing me every chance he gets and sniping me and then pointing the finger and accusing me of picking on Him. All because he's pissed off because I called him out for his Bad Behavior sometime back. If he had clarity of thought, he'd simply address that behavior and move on. Instead, he chose to vilify me and jump at every opportunity to raise hell with me and this has gone on for many, many months.

    I have no respect for the man, no ear for excuses on his behalf and am thoroughly disgusted by his self justified attacking of other members with veiled wording and totally getting away with it each and every single time.

    No, one doesn't approach John Galt/Ophiolite/Whatever other sock puppets he uses and gets away with in a "Correct Manner." One approaches him with their guard raised on full because odds are he's going to Bark, Bite, Snap and growl and then accuse YOU of being the troublesome one.
    Sorry but I'm getting fed up of you whining on about the same thing constantly, I like to see people helping and supporting each other not moaning and back biting. You say you've tried to make peace, well ok sure you may have but you've also made about 8 million posts moaning your flippin head off about how hard done by you are as well, seriously dude lets start by getting rid of that massive chip on shoulder then we might actually start and make some progress. John and nobody else for that matter is out to get you, so just lighten geeez!

    And seriously we don't get breaks? You honestly don't think at times that there is a least one of the Mod team that would gladly see out of the door? Come on we get breaks all the time, we don't have any overall responsibility for making this place run properly, we don't get every decision we make debated and moaned about. Come just lets be realistic here we all get along because we respect each other and behave in such a manner, once that respect goes then we are going to have problems.

    So lets all get rid of all this negativety right now and all start treating each with respect.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Do members get all those benefits of excuses? Do We get a break? We get Warnings, Ignores or suspensions. John Galt has NEVER gotten a suspension. He gets defended, every time.
    Have a short memory?

    Your very membership, now after being permanently banned (once or twice?), is the direct result of "benefits of excuses" you now claim members don't get. Lots of times members get reviewed extensively--we are doing it now about one of our recent active members who's drawn a bit too much attention to himself and been reported multiple times by other members.

    And you don't have to go far into these forums to find threads where mods are in some disagreement. Behind closed doors, the mod and admin team is often brutally honest with each other about how we interact with members; that sometimes resulting in reductions to bans, clarifying PMs, or complete reversals of mod/admin decisions. And more than once after such occasions, one of the mods or admins has gone into self-imposed breaks to cool off...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Have a short memory?
    Not at all... I clearly remember a rather unfair suspension, followed up with you making a claim that was inaccurate (You claimed I went on a "string of Ad hom attacks" yet, you never could show where I supposedly did this and I challenge you now to, again, show where I did that.)- I then confronted you in PM about what you had said and you told me I needed to be more humble. No, my memory is NOT short.
    Now, let's examine yours some more:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Your very membership, now after being permanently banned (once or twice?),
    I have never been perma-banned from this site. Are you saying that I was? Because Kalster's been clear that no other site is relevant to this one. Are you claiming Sciforums.com? Or are you saying I've been perma-banned from here, twice?
    I have not been.
    SeaGypsy was...

    But then she and I are two very different people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    is the direct result of "benefits of excuses" you now claim members don't get.
    You just pointed out that I've been suspended here- In fact, I still question the motives of that one where I was suspended for calling John Galt a liar- when I clearly had not done so and to add insult to injury- You lot suspended SeaGypsy as well, for the same amount of time for No Clear Reason Whatsoever- it smacks of retalitaon and a threat: "Do what we say or we'll go after her, as well."
    Oh sure, I got lots of reasons given to me when I pointed out the falsehood in the "Liar claim" that was publicly given as the reason, as after- the-fact justifications for it. Mods can never admit to an error, can they?

    Is this REALLY the argument you want to pick?

    You point out that I've been suspended numerous times, you falsely claim that I've been perma-banned (Maybe twice, even!) and claim I've benefited from Excuses made while I point out that John Galt has NEVER been suspended - at all- and he gets Nothing else except a Vigorous Public Defense whereas I get publicly ridiculed while I'm banned and unable to defend myself...
    and YOU REALLY THINK THAT'S EQUAL FOOTING?!?! Really?!?!?!

    No, this was not the best fight to pick- Lynx_Fox.

    I cannot put you on ignore because you're one of the Mod Clique that will harass anyone that dares speak out against the almighty John Galt- But I CAN choose to not respond to such absurdities as this from here on out- Do Not Discuss this with me, anymore. (Though you can still meet the challenge given above to support your longtime claim with actual evidence and DON'T again ignore where I was being "ad hom'ed" left and right in that debate like you did last time.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Behind closed doors
    No one gives a hoot about your claims about what goes on "behind Closed doors." There's No Evidence To support Claims if you keep it all safely locked away out of the majorities view and later claim "Oh it was a doozy. You should have seen it."
    What we see is what is public and I just addressed the major gaping holes in it. Your closed doors are closed because you keep them that way so don't try using it to validate your secrecy.

    This argument between you and me is Closed. Because I'm confident you will try to use it to justify further suspension.
     

  27. #26  
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    The point is Neverfly you are sadly misrepresenting how members are treated on this forum. You have been repeatedly disciplined and center stage of the very discussions and ""benefits of excuses" you claim members don't get, even after a series of PMs to the mod team, that by your stated opinion in this thread, wouldn't have had an affect....but it did!

    You are now using this thread as a platform to resurface old gripe about John Galt (and me I guess) who've several times had to discipline you in the past.

    It's no secret that you don't like Galt's moderating style. Fine. What's not fine is your obvious attempt to pull the victim card and besmirch the overall moderating process based on your misunderstandings from the past and thinly veiled attempt to dig up those old conflicts.

    Your post will not lead to anything productive.

    John Galt has moved on...I suggest you do the same.

    Since you seem incapable of being constructive, please don't post in this thread anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Since you seem incapable of being constructive
    /Spit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    please don't post in this thread anymore.
    Agreed.
     

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    god it's like days of your lives here. personally i don't even notice the moderations. this is actually the first thread on this kind of stuff i have read all the way through. all i can say to those that complain about moderation is that no you can't behave any damn way you please. i go a other forums but have found this one to be far better because there are tighter controls. i've seen sci-forums go downhill in the 12 years i've been there. it is now pretty crap for a science site.

    i understand some may spit the dummy at times but don't bang on about it.

    anyway back to the science threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    god it's like days of your lives here.
    No don't worry our acting isn't quite that bad yet No but seriously everyone has there issues from time to time, that's just life. Things would be pretty strange if we all got on swimmingly all the time, but in general things are far better without the histrionics as energy can be directed to having fun and learning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And you don't have to go far into these forums to find threads where mods are in some disagreement. Behind closed doors, the mod and admin team is often brutally honest with each other about how we interact with members; that sometimes resulting in reductions to bans, clarifying PMs, or complete reversals of mod/admin decisions. And more than once after such occasions, one of the mods or admins has gone into self-imposed breaks to cool off...

    I did not know that Staff members could be "suspended" by other Staff members.
    Well, that shatters another illusion of mine.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    And there have been a couple of really, really irritating moderator issues with a few threads/ members just lately.
    Yes, you can say that again ! It appears to be loon season once more...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    I did not know that Staff members could be "suspended" by other Staff members.
    It would be an unusual and somewhat extreme step ( normally things just get talked-out behind the scenes ), but it is definitely possible. You might have noticed that there "moderators" and "administrators" here - the latter have the power to demote moderators, or give them the boot altogether. This isn't something that happens every day though, since staff team members are usually people who have earned their right to be where they are.
     

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    I did not know that Staff members could be "suspended" by other Staff members.
    "Staff" is a rather grand word for what we do.

    Remember we can't just "ignore" members that give us the willies, and we have to deal with the stuff that other members find annoying even if we'd personally prefer to ignore it.

    There are swings and roundabouts to everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    I did not know that Staff members could be "suspended" by other Staff members.
    It would be an unusual and somewhat extreme step ( normally things just get talked-out behind the scenes ), but it is definitely possible. You might have noticed that there "moderators" and "administrators" here - the latter have the power to demote moderators, or give them the boot altogether. This isn't something that happens every day though, since staff team members are usually people who have earned their right to be where they are.

    I have not been here long enough to state that such a thing (a Moderator being demoted) occured in the past.
    But even if it happened, I find it hard to imagine, given the fact that Moderators are picked due to their character and contributions, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    "Staff" is a rather grand word for what we do.

    Remember we can't just "ignore" members that give us the willies, and we have to deal with the stuff that other members find annoying even if we'd personally prefer to ignore it.

    There are swings and roundabouts to everything.

    I can imagine that. It must a tough job, I give you that!
    However, you do know that it is part of the job before you accept the offer, do you not?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Well, he might have been a bit tired. He's been teaching a course (in Dubai? somewhere anyway) the last couple of weeks. And there have been a couple of really, really irritating moderator issues with a few threads/ members just lately.

    Moderators are human after all.

    Giving all of us credit where it's due, and a bit of a break at other times, would be a nice change. (At least that's the way I see it.)

    We have limited scope, limited time and various limits to our tolerance and our patience. And, worst of all, we lack a global team of kind people to rush about to soothe all those hurt feelings and bruised egos that erupt from time to time. Our own included.
    You shouldn't have to explain for him.

    It's not the end of the world. You aren't robots. I think you do a good job here. It seems really well balanced. We're all humans. The most bizarre turn of this thread to bash him when he doesn't appear to have even banned the guy who started the OP. You certainly should not have to explain for him because he (Galt) didn't do anything wrong.

    This has been blown way out of proportion and the lack of perspective being shown here is spectacular. Between one getting sick from what he perceives as his mistreatment to another comparing his treatment here to the absolute real life physical horror that befell that gay couple, man, out of proportion. Denied the right to spend the dying moments with your partner, losing all of your possessions and money to the state because you are gay somehow compares to a disagreement or angry words exchanged with a moderator on an internet forum? Perspective. Lacking.
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    Occams Razor- Rather than suggesting that it's rare because of Amazing Qualities (Unobserved, often enough, mind you) I could suggest a simpler explanation...
     

  38. #37  
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    IMHO

    One of the worst ills of our society, is the epidemic of people who seem to wander about looking for something for which they can feel offended, or at-least claim or pretend to offense. Once they have well established themselves as being offended, the insanity starts growing exponentially as other voices join in in denouncing the offense until it explodes into a feeding frenzy on the poor fool who made the "offending" comment.

    Jeeezzzzzzzzzzz guys that action-reaction building to a crescendo is the epitome of SILLY.
    (anecdote) at my last university, you needed 12 credit hours to remain a full time student, and 17 was the normal max---i habitually carried between 28 and 34 hours(which led to the computer throwing my classes out one term which led to me meeting a dean who forced me to take lower lever degree requirements which led me to actually taking degrees-one needed 180 hours to graduate, I had over 360, but was missing 100 and 200 level degree requirements---never underestimate the power of dumb luck---anyway). I allowed myself a few minutes of TV each evening while preparing my evening meal, and one fine evening, Richard Prior was on the tube. Social retard that I am, I met the woman who became my beloved spouse and mother of my children at the university pool the next morning, and proceeded to share Richard's jokes with her. Unfortunately, much of his humor involved "nigger" jokes, so on I went, oblivious to the social conventions du jour, telling her the "nigger" jokes------whereupon, a black man came over from the opposite side of the pool and screamed in my face: "You really like that word, don't you!?". Innocently enough, I queried:"What word?"
    And, he answered in an overloud and over-agitated voice "NIGGER". I paused, and contemplated the social conundrum within which I seem to have been engaging, and said: I was just quoting Richard Prior, who I think to be near a comedic genius, but as far as words go, I really like the word Afghanistan, it bespeaks far away exotic places, and I would like to, one day, walk the high streets of Kabul."
    I suspect that at this stage of our interaction, he realized that we weren't likely to end up on the same page, and he went back to swimming.
    I found the interchange a momentary confusion in an already busy life episode. Made a date with Carol, and headed to the library.

    and
    here's the kicker
    as I've grown older, I find myself increasingly intolerant of intolerance.
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  39. #38  
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    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?
     

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    It is after 2am here and my feet are swollen, I can't sleep, I can't stop eating strawberry jam out of the jar and I can't stop thinking about slicing some cheese and using it as a dip for the jam.

    First world problems.

    People need to let things go. Enjoy life and jam with cheese.

    Stuff this, I'm going to bed. Night!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?
    He died last spring, not only leaving a hole here, but in his community where he did lots of volunteering to improve and teach about the environment to younger folks.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; November 21st, 2013 at 10:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?
    He died last spring, not only leaving a hole here, but in his community where is did lots of volunteering to improve and teach about the environment to younger folks.
    And this is why people need to get some perspective.

    I am sorry for this site's loss and more for his community and his loved ones.

    But bed time for me before I start eating cheese and jam.
     

  43. #42  
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    The Richard prior thing, led me to remembering one of his monologues, which illustrates rather well a good way of dealing with something one finds offensive.

    Richard and his wife bought and moved into a suburban house while their next door neighbor was away on vacation to palm springs, palm beach(?) whatever. Anyway, Richard was out mowing the lawn when his neighbor drove up, and stopped the car, while watching Richard. Rolling down his window, he shouted "Hey Boy" whoa thought Richard, you blankety blankety blank rednecked honky blankety blank, but what Richard said was "Yao zur" as he trotted over to his neighbors car. The neighbor then queried "What do you get for mowing the lawn boy?" and Richard thought "now I've got him" and Richard said: "Well sir, if I does a real good job sir, I gets to sleep with the lady of the house."

    Hats off to Richard. We should all learn from our betters.
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    I am gonna pray for MeteorWayne. I really miss him as true critic and reformer.
     

  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?

    How is that possible? You joined the forum in October 2013, whilst he died in October 2012.


    PS: I have read the Guest Book on his online obituary. It is a shame I did not get the chance of knowing him.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

  46. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?

    How is that possible? You joined the forum in October 2013, whilst he died in October 2012.


    PS: I have read the Guest Book on his online obituary. It is a shame I did not get the chance of knowing him.
    I believe there is another thread where he admits to being another member with a longer history. I can't remember who and my apathy prevents me from searching for the thread.
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  47. #46  
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    How I picture the mods...

    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    so many issues! I had once issues with MeteorWayne. where is he now?

    How is that possible? You joined the forum in October 2013, whilst he died in October 2012.


    PS: I have read the Guest Book on his online obituary. It is a shame I did not get the chance of knowing him.
    I believe there is another thread where he admits to being another member with a longer history. I can't remember who and my apathy prevents me from searching for the thread.
    Precious.
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    How I picture the mods...

    And from the viewpoint of the cranks:

    Markus Hanke and babe like this.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

  50. #49  
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    Apart from the highly desirable light sabres ....

    .... the idea of waiting for the next one to turn up is blehhhh.

    It's much more like waiting for the other shoe to drop than eagerly awaiting a chance to drop the piano.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  52. #51  
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    No names mentioned, but some of you should try not seeking to always get the last word, in a debate. You might be amazed at the peace you find, from walking away from debates that go awry. I will debate, but once insults fly, I'm done. It's not worth it to me, to continue on with someone like that, offline or online. Give it a try. Take the high road, and if the heat gets to be too much in the kitchen, walk out. Don't always seek to get the last word. Just my pennies worth.
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  53. #52  
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    "penny's worth"

    Oops!
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    "penny's worth"

    Oops!
    lol you are trying to get the last word I see?
     

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    It actually should have read pennies' worth. :=PPPPP Oh brother.
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  56. #55  
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    I have a brother who seems to need to get the last word in----------shame on me, but, sometimes I turn saying goodbye to him into a real hoot.
    I swear, 15 minutes is a snap, 30 is doable, almost like a staring contest.
     

  57. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I will debate, but once insults fly, I'm done.
    This is good advice for general members
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  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    How I picture the mods...

    at times it feels more like this

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  59. #58  
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    And sometimes this is needed :



    Occasionally then you are being made to feel like this :

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  60. #59  
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    And if all else fails...

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  61. #60  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I will debate, but once insults fly, I'm done.
    This is good advice for general members
    Just general members?
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
     

  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Just general members?
    Well, once you become a moderator you don't generally have the option of tuning around and walking away from ugly situations; it's our job to intervene and sort them out. Having said that, we often hand things over to other moderators if we feel that we are too emotionally involved in a thread, or open a discussion in the hidden "Area 51" section. However, simply ignoring something isn't an option for us.
     

  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Just general members?
    Well, once you become a moderator you don't generally have the option of tuning around and walking away from ugly situations; it's our job to intervene and sort them out. Having said that, we often hand things over to other moderators if we feel that we are too emotionally involved in a thread, or open a discussion in the hidden "Area 51" section. However, simply ignoring something isn't an option for us.
    true, because you often have to be an arbitrator between non-mod members.
     

  64. #63  
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    The question obtains

    Why do people want to be moderators?
     

  65. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The question obtains

    Why do people want to be moderators?
    Because the best forums require good moderation. I regard it much like a volunteer service for the community.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  66. #65  
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    much like?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Neverfly, I just checked for you.

    jocular's ban is for 3 days only. For profanity. (You may be surprised to learn that neither I nor JG had anything to do with it.)
    Not surprised, at all. Adelady, I'll say right out I have nothing but confidence in your moderator abilities. We don't always agree, but you are one who posts with a rational calm I can seem to only admire and never emulate.
    And I may have an issue with John Galt, I could never accuse him of personally banning a member for personal reasons.

    I learned after I made this post in this thread what had happened and I addressed it there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Why in the world do you guys get so worked up about an internet forum? I'd hate to be the cop that pulls one of you over...
    It's not about the Internet or a forum... It's about the state of the world and our lives in it. If a person sees something that they think is wrong, it hits close to home.
    Think of insurance companies really screwing you over.
    Think of all the times you felt treated unfairly or badly by a position of authority but they bullied you into submission with fines or threats.
    When a person perceives it, they feel a strong urge to stand up to it, to not allow it to happen.

    Sometimes, it's a strong enough difference in perception that many people will join in. For example, a gay couple in California in which one man was in the hospital and his husband was disallowed from visiting him because they were not "Properly Married." The man died and the State took his possessions, while his husband was again, disallowed from the right to handle the estate.
    It's a perceive injustice that will get people worked up and it's inevitable that if a person is perceiving injustice and they speak - and they then get hammered, threatened, spoken down to or pretty much anything less than someone simply listening, that they will probably really let 'em have it.
    Well said.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    much like?
    It's the bit of perspective or perhaps just a result of having lived pre-internet (You'd get that) I suppose.

    Nothing I do on an internet forum rises to the level of importance of what I do in my day-to-day life where I'm dealing with others face-to-face. By community service I have in mind things like being a volunteer firemen (which I'd done), volunteering to collect data, clean up a stream, report a crime, spread some salt on the walkway in front of some aged person's home.
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  69. #68  
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    Think of all the times you felt treated unfairly or badly by a position of authority but they bullied you into submission with fines or threats.
    I had a cottage in wisconsin. The local crooked power guys had it in for me, and tried bullying me with fines-------one little thing they missed while writing up the last ticket for the offense was that if I defaulted on the fine it meant jail time.......
    They were just so used to people cowering before them that they got arrogant and sloppy.
    So, I claimed that I would not pay any fine, which meant jail time which meant that I get a free lawyer, a jury trial, and a change of venue.
    They tried one more time at their kangaroo court, then backpeddled out of the mess they had created, and never bothered me again.

    never give an inch
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    much like?
    It's the bit of perspective or perhaps just a result of having lived pre-internet (You'd get that) I suppose.

    Nothing I do on an internet forum rises to the level of importance of what I do in my day-to-day life where I'm dealing with others face-to-face. By community service I have in mind things like being a volunteer firemen (which I'd done), volunteering to collect data, clean up a stream, report a crime, spread some salt on the walkway in front of some aged person's home.
    This is also a community. A front porch community(your words).
    thanx
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I had a cottage in wisconsin. The local crooked power guys had it in for me, and tried bullying me with fines-------one little thing they missed while writing up the last ticket for the offense was that if I defaulted on the fine it meant jail time.......
    They were just so used to people cowering before them that they got arrogant and sloppy.
    So, I claimed that I would not pay any fine, which meant jail time which meant that I get a free lawyer, a jury trial, and a change of venue.
    They tried one more time at their kangaroo court, then backpeddled out of the mess they had created, and never bothered me again.
    This isn't a vote for what you are saying (not that I disagree) but how you're saying it.
    I am now taking you off my ignore list.
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  72. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I had a cottage in wisconsin. The local crooked power guys had it in for me, and tried bullying me with fines-------one little thing they missed while writing up the last ticket for the offense was that if I defaulted on the fine it meant jail time.......
    They were just so used to people cowering before them that they got arrogant and sloppy.
    So, I claimed that I would not pay any fine, which meant jail time which meant that I get a free lawyer, a jury trial, and a change of venue.
    They tried one more time at their kangaroo court, then backpeddled out of the mess they had created, and never bothered me again.
    This isn't a vote for what you are saying (not that I disagree) but how you're saying it.
    I am now taking you off my ignore list.
    never give an inch
    (you left out the most important part----------fixed it for you)
    gee red, does that mean I should take you off my ignore list too?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Why do people want to be moderators?
    i didn't, but people nominated me when this forum wanted an individual moderator for each subforum, and i thought it would be churlish to let them down
    all the while, however, i feel a bit guilty for not being all that active and most of the time let others handle the hot topics
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    (you left out the most important part----------fixed it for you)
    Soz.

    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    gee red, does that mean I should take you off my ignore list too?
    No.
    You don't deserve to read my fabulous prose. :P
    Dywyddyr and babe like this.
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  75. #74  
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    I can still read it, but I have to click on the "view post" line which makes it voluntary.
     

  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Why do people want to be moderators?
    i didn't, but people nominated me when this forum wanted an individual moderator for each subforum, and i thought it would be churlish to let them down
    all the while, however, i feel a bit guilty for not being all that active and most of the time let others handle the hot topics

    If other members thought that you were the person that they wanted as moderator, then it is a sign that your contributions have been of great value to the Science Forum.
    I do not see any reason to feel guilty, to be honest. After all, it is not that you have to spend a certain amount of your time on this forum, is it?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    This is also a community. A front porch community(your words).
    thanx
    You are taking a metaphor out of context. I used it to help a member understand the difference between public free speech and what's allowed on private forums.

    I do not consider forums communities in any deep sense of the word and I think to do diminishes the value of communities intertwined into our lives---where people struggle to find work, try to educate or feed their children , figure out how to make ends meet, cope their their personal demons, compromise about the speed limit on main street, or proposed bond to encourage a new business, or generally support each other get through their collective hard times. I think folks all together take pure internet relationship far too seriously.

    Perhaps a better word for what we do here is a science club.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I had a cottage in wisconsin. The local crooked power guys had it in for me, and tried bullying me with fines-------one little thing they missed while writing up the last ticket for the offense was that if I defaulted on the fine it meant jail time.......
    They were just so used to people cowering before them that they got arrogant and sloppy.
    So, I claimed that I would not pay any fine, which meant jail time which meant that I get a free lawyer, a jury trial, and a change of venue.
    They tried one more time at their kangaroo court, then backpeddled out of the mess they had created, and never bothered me again.
    This isn't a vote for what you are saying (not that I disagree) but how you're saying it.
    I am now taking you off my ignore list.
    never give an inch
    (you left out the most important part----------fixed it for you)
    gee red, does that mean I should take you off my ignore list too?
    The ignore list is losing it's power if it had any.
     

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    I do not consider forums communities in any deep sense of the word and I think to do diminishes the value of communities...
    i would have to disagree somewhat with this. i belonged to a science forum on the ABC website (Australian Broadcasting Commission). It is now defunct but some of us set up our own forum where we met everyday. We have have get-togethers, some have met their partners online in these forums. we have gone to funerals of members, we have helped each other financially when needed. it was never solely a science forum. we talked about world events, social problems, our health, our worries. we are a community just as vibrant and caring as any in the real world. we have friends there that we may never meet. the format of the sites allowed "real time" chatting.
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    I do not consider forums communities in any deep sense of the word
    To me it feels very much like a community, to be honest; just because it is a "virtual" place does not make it any less real for me. There are real people here, engaging in real interactions. I spend time here pretty much every day now, and the place is definitely important to me, just as the real-life communities I am involved in are.

    Do you guys remember the time when MeteorWayne passed away ? I felt real sadness when I heard the news, because I considered him somewhat of a "friend", though I had never met him face-to-face. If a group - upon being a member in it and upon eliciting such emotional responses - does not qualify as a "community" of sorts, then I don't know what does.

    I think this thing becomes problematic only if used as a substitute for a real-life community; if TSF is all someone has, then that someone likely has a problem.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    You don't deserve to read my fabulous prose. :P
    what a pride. added you to my ignore list.
     

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    *Sense of humour failure detected*

    It was a joke, for such crimes against humour your on my list (another joke )
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    You don't deserve to read my fabulous prose. :P
    what a pride. added you to my ignore list.
    Do you know what :P means?

    Or did you just jump to a conclusion without fully understanding what was written?

    what a pride. added you to my ignore list.
    (Actually, you were already on it.)
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

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    It was a joke, for such crimes against humour your on my list (another joke )
    For your crimes against the English language, you're on mine.

    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
     

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    -- damn missed one.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Neverfly, I just checked for you.

    jocular's ban is for 3 days only. For profanity. (You may be surprised to learn that neither I nor JG had anything to do with it.)
    For using the "f" word, apparently, or for using it aggressively aimed at a Moderator. Whatever the case may be, let me make CLEAR that the Mod at whom my vileness was aimed, USED the same "f" word the very same day, with absolutely no untoward ill effect.

    Double Standard.

    Either we ALL adhere to some "code of conduct", or the whole damn operation reverts to something reflecting the running of a typical bureaucracy. Might I FURTHER point out that, by reassuring your quotee, that neither yourself, nor some other, were responsible for my "crucifixion", you absolved consideration by members of personal intent. joc
     

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    I have been on a few science boards. Not one of them was run scientifically, but rather, politically.
    I'm reminded of Capt. Jack Sparrow: "It's politics, love."

    It's a pretty big shining example that cranks, CT'ists, fundies and the like are not alone in the ability to rally behind belief. We ALL not only are capable of doing it- but do it regularly. Scientists are not immune; but just as guilty of it when not employing the scientific method.
    Which is why science demands the use of the method- to remove the strength of our bias.

    But running the board is not a scientific function and as such, is often politic more than scientific.
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    For using the "f" word, apparently, or for using it aggressively aimed at a Moderator. Whatever the case may be, let me make CLEAR that the Mod at whom my vileness was aimed, USED the same "f" word the very same day, with absolutely no untoward ill effect.

    Double Standard.
    Twice, actually. Once I replied that I did not realize that vulgarity was allowed and the other was where he told me to 'Go "F" ' myself.
    I have never once been on a forum where the mods were held to the same standards with the same Public Chastisements and punishments as everyone else.
    I have never wanted to be a Mod, but I've wanted the immunity from public embarrassment/dressing down and punishment that mods seem to have...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post

    For using the "f" word, apparently, or for using it aggressively aimed at a Moderator. Whatever the case may be, let me make CLEAR that the Mod at whom my vileness was aimed, USED the same "f" word the very same day, with absolutely no untoward ill effect.

    Double Standard.
    MOD NOTE : I have gone through the "Doubt about Photons" thread where I imposed the temporary ban for profanity; however, I cannot find any instance of a member of the moderator team using the "f" word towards you or any other member on that thread, unless I am going blind. Can you please find these posts for me, and then use the "Report" function on the bottom left to file an official report. We will then discuss this in the Area 51 section. Thank you.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    We will then discuss this in the Area 51 section. Thank you.
    Yes, in secret... Perk of being a mod, right?

    I did the dirty work, for ya and tracked them down.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Yes, in secret... Perk of being a mod, right?
    Yes, all discussions related to reports filed ( and there are plenty of those every single day ) take place in the Area 51 section, regardless of who the report is about.

    And yes - us moderators get reported to.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I did the dirty work, for ya and tracked them down.
    Thank you. I never go into the "Psychology" or "Politics" sections, so obviously I wasn't aware of those discussions. We'll look into this.
     

  92. #91  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Yes, in secret... Perk of being a mod, right?
    Probably need to have some perks if they have to put up with our collective whining, bitching, being sworn at and abused, our complaints, the copious spammers, not to mention the weirdos and crackpots who post here.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    And yes - us moderators get reported to.
    You misunderstood... See, I imagine, though I don't know... That most reports are usually viewed as a situation where members calming down would have the desired effect. However, occasionally, more action is needed.
    A member may get a warning, suspension or ban. A Public Announcement is made on that action (Although a Proper Ban Log would be a bit better than note in a thread.)
    However, if more action is deemed necessary for a Moderator who is reported... There is no public warning, suspension or ban.
    It's handled within- like a tight little family.

    But think about how that secretiveness discourages trust from the membership.

    Thing is, even if a mod is asked to step down or leave, they are NOT suspended, banned or made public... In fact, I've observed instances elsewhere where a Cover Story is invented to explain a moderators absence or stepping down (CosmoQuest).
    This Tight Little Family discourages member trust and encourages running the board politically rather than openly and honestly.

    So, when I said, "in secret" I mean that it will be dealt with in secret. I realize that being a mod is an often thankless and drama filled difficult task. But having perks shouldn't mean forsaking honesty, openness, honor or Fair treatment of standards that all members, mod, admin or regular poster alike must adhere to.

    There are those that talk about the Bunsen and Beaker affair... That was an Extreme Version of this issue, true, but a version nonetheless.
     

  94. #93  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    That most reports are usually viewed as a situation where members calming down would have the desired effect. However, occasionally, more action is needed.
    That's pretty much it. A lot of reports don't warrant any action ( e.g. there are members here who are in the habit of reporting every single post which does not agree with the contents of their own posts - we don't act on that kind of report for obvious reasons ), others are self-evident ( e.g. spam posts ). Those that do warrant action will in the first instance elicit a warning, and anything more serious than that will usually be discussed in the mod section first, before the sanction is applied by a member of the mod team. There is an unspoken rule that a moderator who is himself participating in an ongoing discussion will first seek consensus from other mods before imposing sanctions, so as to limit the possibility of "emotional over-reactions". We are only human, too.

    But think about how that secretiveness discourages trust from the membership.
    I understand where you are coming from. However, I know of no organisation whose management don't have a private platforms to discuss matters of policy and discipline amongst themselves, even if they concern other members, behind closed doors. Think management meetings, board meetings, disciplinary hearings and such like. Some things just don't belong into a public setting. Is that fair and democratic ? Perhaps not. But I can tell you one thing - if the day ever comes when this forum puts members/mods/admins on "public trial" on open, search-engine indexed threads, I will be the first one to resign both my position as moderator, and my membership on this platform.

    But having perks shouldn't mean forsaking honesty, openness, honor or Fair treatment of standards that all members, mod, admin or regular poster alike must adhere to.
    Yes, to this I wholeheartedly agree. That is the standard that we must all strive towards.
    Last edited by Markus Hanke; November 24th, 2013 at 02:32 AM.
     

  95. #94  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    You misunderstood... See, I imagine, though I don't know... That most reports are usually viewed as a situation where members calming down would have the desired effect. However, occasionally, more action is needed.
    A member may get a warning, suspension or ban. A Public Announcement is made on that action (Although a Proper Ban Log would be a bit better than note in a thread.)
    However, if more action is deemed necessary for a Moderator who is reported... There is no public warning, suspension or ban.
    It's handled within- like a tight little family.

    But think about how that secretiveness discourages trust from the membership.

    Thing is, even if a mod is asked to step down or leave, they are NOT suspended, banned or made public... In fact, I've observed instances elsewhere where a Cover Story is invented to explain a moderators absence or stepping down (CosmoQuest).
    This Tight Little Family discourages member trust and encourages running the board politically rather than openly and honestly.

    So, when I said, "in secret" I mean that it will be dealt with in secret. I realize that being a mod is an often thankless and drama filled difficult task. But having perks shouldn't mean forsaking honesty, openness, honor or Fair treatment of standards that all members, mod, admin or regular poster alike must adhere to.

    There are those that talk about the Bunsen and Beaker affair... That was an Extreme Version of this issue, true, but a version nonetheless.
    Man. Talk about taking things way too seriously.

    Making them sound like the mafia. I'm sensing tin foil hat brigade on the horizon. If they invented a cover story.. Fark me, I can't believe you actually used those words. What is this? The CIA? NSA? I mean why does this matter? You're carrying on like there is this giant conspiracy. Maybe they chopped him up and ate him sauteed in garlic and shallots. What would you do if you could see what they were saying? Analyse it? Give your opinion and approval or disapproval? Would you want you watching everything you do, analysing every single one of your words and movements? Fark me, do people really want to see them flinging poo at each other in public? We get enough of it from people posting here.

    Plus I cannot believe you would drag the Muppets into this. Have you no shame?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    I understand where you are coming from.
    I think you don't... It's not about whether or not all reports are discussed publicly. Frankly, I think most members would find it boring and some would find it disturbing.
    I wouldn't mind seeing what you guys have to say about me behind closed doors- but I have no doubt I'd also find it disturbing and probably angering.
    It's not about that. It's about what happens after that and above, I said clearly what it is in this thread -you quoted me- but you omitted that part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    But I can tell you one thing - if the day ever comes when this forum puts members/mods/admins on "public trial" on open, search-engine indexed threads, I will be the first one to resign both my position as moderator, and my membership on this platform.
    It's the result of such proceedings that is public for us, not public for mods.
    While GeorgiePeorgie can be publicly chastized and banned and we all talk a bit of smack about him while he's banned- That Won't Happen to a Mod.
    It's unbalanced. If GeorgiePeorgie must face that consequence to ensure they put in an effort on their behavior, so should moderators.

    I can tell you...
    I've been on science forums almost a decade now. You're up against about 9 years worth of direct observation.
    Moderators are not held to the same standards as members. In fact, it's often described as a Dictatorship, "our house, our rules" type of situation.
    But it is not a house...
    Forums are nothing new; early records discuss the forums of Ancient Rome and they've been Free Forums for thousands of years... Now, the internet kicks in and some people got the idea that they can call the shots and dictate how the forums go... Think the early MSN and Yahoo chatrooms where the MSN room creator had the Golden Gavel and could assign brown gavels to mods. They abused those gavels. ANd when people didn't like it- they merely went elsewhere.
    It got set that way. People got used to it being a biased setting and it's been that way ever since.
    20 years- against several thousand.
    So, you might point out- "there must still be rules." Very well- apply all participants to those same rules. I do not care who owns the site, who's been given the Golden Gavel of Admin or the Brown Gavel of Mod- All must abide by the rules as a Forum has been for thousands of years, not a measly couple of decades in which a bad habit set in.
    Same Rules. Same consequences.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I can tell you...
    I've been on science forums almost a decade now. You're up against about 9 years worth of direct observation.
    Moderators are not held to the same standards as members. In fact, it's often described as a Dictatorship, "our house, our rules" type of situation.
    They have gulag's here?

    But it is not a house...
    Glad you cleared that up for us. I was so confused by the Windows and the Vista from the Windows.

    Forums are nothing new; early records discuss the forums of Ancient Rome and they've been Free Forums for thousands of years... Now, the internet kicks in and some people got the idea that they can call the shots and dictate how the forums go...
    How dare they go to the trouble of spending their money and time to run an internet forum and all the trouble that goes with it and assume they get to have a say in how it's run. How dare they!

    I am so angry by this, I'm trembling with rage in my toga!

    Think the early MSN and Yahoo chatrooms where the MSN room creator had the Golden Gavel and could assign brown gavels to mods. They abused those gavels. ANd when people didn't like it- they merely went elsewhere.
    I think I'd go elsewhere as well if I was abused by a brown gavel, to be honest.

    It got set that way. People got used to it being a biased setting and it's been that way ever since.
    20 years- against several thousand.
    I blame the Romans. To the lion pits, I say!

    So, you might point out- "there must still be rules." Very well- apply all participants to those same rules. I do not care who owns the site, who's been given the Golden Gavel of Admin or the Brown Gavel of Mod- All must abide by the rules as a Forum has been for thousands of years, not a measly couple of decades in which a bad habit set in.
    Same Rules. Same consequences.
    I expect more of this from the moderators now:





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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Frankly, I think most members would find it boring and some would find it disturbing.
    Indeed.

    I wouldn't mind seeing what you guys have to say about me behind closed doors- but I have no doubt I'd also find it disturbing and probably angering.
    Hm. I'm sorry to see that you think that way. You appear to be under the impression that we "slag off" other members behind a curtain of privacy for no apparent reason; whether you believe me or not, I can assure you and everyone else reading this that this is not the case.

    To give some perspective - the hidden "Area 51" section is divided into two parts : one for "Reported Posts and Messages" where any reports filed end up, and one for general mod discussions. The latter is rarely used at all, and contains mainly discussions about policy issues, and problems with the forum software. In the reports section, we discuss specific reports which were filed, and we act on each report as the case may warrant. There are no deragatory "Have you seen what Neverfly posted today" kind of discussions. I am surprised and - quite frankly - a little put off that you appear to think that is the case. This isn't a democracy, but neither are we Hitlers-in-training.

    In fact, it's often described as a Dictatorship, "our house, our rules" type of situation.
    I cannot deny that this is true to some extent. But then again, the same is also true for any company or organisation. It's a fact of life.

    Same Rules. Same consequences.
    Ok, I have received your reports ( thanks for that ), and I have opened a discussion in the mod section. This being a Sunday many of us won't be around, but I'll let you know what the outcome is.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    They have gulag's here?
    Damn ! No one was supposed to find out about those...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Hm. I'm sorry to see that you think that way. You appear to be under the impression that we "slag off" other members behind a curtain of privacy for no apparent reason; whether you believe me or not, I can assure you and everyone else reading this that this is not the case.
    That wasn't my impression and I am not certain how you took that from my words...
    I hope you are not being too heavily influenced by the annoying thing that I have on Ignore above- it is enjoying misrepresenting my position rather heavily, if not sarcastically.
    I did not say that the Mods slag off on people behind their backs. I did say that when the members are discussed by the mods in the mod area, we might find it either boring or possibly disturbing. There is nothing in that, whatsoever, that says mods slag off on the members willy nilly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    I am surprised and - quite frankly - a little put off that you appear to think that is the case. This isn't a democracy, but neither are we Hitlers-in-training.
    Appear? Because you're going full assumption, here. I never said nor implied it, even. You really read that in my words, Markus. And to be blunt- I'm a bit put off that you managed to read that far into it.
    I've had to clarify myself to you three times now; one where I readdressed what you ommitted from my quote and went off on some other tangent about something I wasn't even complaining about and clarified that you had misunderstood - TWICE.
    Again, are you reading Tranquilles posts and not mine? Because hers are irrelevant and off topic.
    It does this to get me to lose my temper and it's why I'm ignoring it.

    So- what is the point of explaining it out if it keeps getting diverted to things I have not said?
    I think I've been pretty clear, here...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Appear? Because you're going full assumption, here. I never said nor implied it, even. You really read that in my words, Markus. And to be blunt- I'm a bit put off that you managed to read that far into it.
    I'm afraid this bit :

    I wouldn't mind seeing what you guys have to say about me behind closed doors- but I have no doubt I'd also find it disturbing and probably angering.
    came across to me in precisely that way. But regardless, like I said I have opened a discussion, and I'll get back to you once I have something more definite to say.
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