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View Poll Results: Should swearing be tolerated on the forum?

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  • It's not an important issue

    2 9.52%
  • Never tolerate swearing

    5 23.81%
  • Sometimes tolerate swearing

    10 47.62%
  • Always tolerate swearing

    4 19.05%
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Thread: Should swearing be tolerated on the forum?

  1. #1 Should swearing be tolerated on the forum? 
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
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    We've had this discussion before, but I want to get an idea of what the general opinion is on this issue. With swearing I mean words like 'fuck' and 'shit'.
    Ad-hominem swearing (directly insulting a person, or a group of people) is never acceptable and will never be tolerated.


     

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  3. #2  
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    I'm all for it.

    Sometimes a strong swear word is the best way to convey the emotion that you are feeling...............


     

  4. #3  
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    I'm for allowing it occasionally. When it's blatantly offensive in an ad-hominem manner that avoids the topic, however...it shouldn't be allowed. As the above poster states, sometimes a vulgar word is required to accurately convey an emotion. I normally replace certain words like "fuck" with "frack" for this, not as a censor evasion, but to dumb-down the word so people are less repulsed. This actually works amazingly well when older-readers read it...hah
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
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    I think I for one have been well over the top in using swear words and I apologize. I come from the eastend of London though.

    I dont find swearing in the least offensive personally.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Masters Degree invert_nexus's Avatar
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    A thread from ago for your perusal relating to this very topic.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=
    275&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
    Edited due to link eating page format. Copy and paste to view. - jeremyhfht

    I find the profanity nazi-ism quite disgusting and sad.
     

  7. #6  
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    Would it be okay to describe a property of yourself that is derived solely from your own oppinion? Without using swearing, that is.

    Come on, I'm not destroying the forum, am I?
     

  8. #7  
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    Edited due to link eating page format. Copy and paste to view. - jeremyhfht
    Do you realize that your edit made my link invalid?
    That's not very nice.
    Let me repost the link in a more proper fashion.
    Candy colored blue:

    A Constitutional Correlate of Stupidity with Profanity
     

  9. #8  
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    Here we go again...

    Swearing should not in any terms be tolerated in a public forum. The internet is a public forum. There is no need for anyone whose education goes beyond profanity to express themselves in such a vulgar fashion.
    Everybody in this forum is clearly well able to express themselves and well beyond a diatribe of obscenities, so why don't they?

    Is it that they feel 'big' by using these words, in the same way that schoolchildren might whisper 'fuck' and then all start to giggle?

    Is it supposed to express anger or frustraton?

    And what if openly tolerated is the next step?

    Explicit sexual images? after all these are only pictures of what any does quite naturally so why ban them? pictures of torture?

    What is ther real difference between "I don't understand it" and " I don't fucking understand it" ??

    Well, it takes a second or two longer, it's superfluous, meaningless, it shows the user is frustrated, well so is, cleraly the author the next the next quote

    "I really am having trouble with this"

    To me the second quote shows the guy is trying to understand, the former suggests he's incapable (of understanding it) and knows it.

    I well accept many younger users are more familiar with this 'modified' form of expression than the more traditional and they oinstantly expect us to conform to their new rules, well it's give and take, if you want me to take you seriously behave yourselves!
     

  10. #9  
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    Megabrain, profanity is a very quick and easy way to express frustration and anger. Tell me, which sentence expresses it best: "God I hate the world!"
    "I fucking hate the world!"

    Sufficed to say, when anger and frustration is your goal, profanity is the only probable solution. Comparing it to explicit images is definitely along the lines of an apple-Buick comparison.

    Modified form of expression or not, both are viable, but when it comes to extreme forms of frustration, again, profanity tends to convey it best.
     

  11. #10  
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    THey are different, to my mind the former is the better, what is wrong with "I really hate this world" which is actually better than either of the others - any of the three words, "God" "Really" or "Effin" all show a conviction, an emphasis none is clearly more of a conviction than either of the others. Consider who might actually use the word, in the order as laid out above, it could be, A priest, a student and a thug, each compelled to hate yet, the sudent would in my opinion seem to be the one who expressed it in the least offensive terms in respect of others.
     

  12. #11  
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    Possibly, however, in aiming for anger and frustration offensiveness normally carries it better. "god" tends to be far less offensive than a profane word.
     

  13. #12  
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    I accept that it is true to a certain extent that we are programmed to respond to aggression, since we no longer tumble about in the grass, agression - even if through speech/word only, can be an outlet, it's the old fight or flight response. Don't you think that refraining from profanities therefore shows a much greater degree of self-control of one's emotions?
    dammit, we say women are ruled by their emotions, so why should not us 'superior' males show we have ours fully under control and express through calmness rather than aggression?
     

  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I accept that it is true to a certain extent that we are programmed to respond to aggression, since we no longer tumble about in the grass, agression - even if through speech/word only, can be an outlet, it's the old fight or flight response. Don't you think that refraining from profanities therefore shows a much greater degree of self-control of one's emotions?
    Controlling ones emotions is quite easy. At least for me. However this does not mean that expressing an emotion (control or not) shows lack of control. It only shows you wanted to express that emotion at that time.

    dammit, we say women are ruled by their emotions, so why should not us 'superior' males show we have ours fully under control and express through calmness rather than aggression?
    Not always. Females generally tend to lean more towards emotion, but not always.
     

  15. #14  
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    I see the use of profanities as the manifestation of an emotion, without this emotion the profanity would not occur, the person has allowed their rage/anger to develope to such a degree that a profanity is almost inevitable.

    Consider the man teaching his wife to drive, say the lady repeatedly let's the clutch out too fast and stalls the engine, the guy is gonna lose his rag, raise his voice and literally lose his temper - I am sure we all know examples of this. Now, I put it to you that he is singularly unable to control his emotion - yet the same man may spend hours trying to teach a young child to walk without ever coming anywhere near losing it. This shows emotions can be controlled, and aggression, ergo profanities avoided. So I maintain that profanities merely represent a lack of self-control, at it's very basic level a person simply cannot avoid swearing, indeed In my workshop if I injure myself there is only one thing to say the first word is "Oh", and the second is the same as you might use.

    Thus there is a threshold for each of us - I am in such control of my emotions that mere words appearing on a screen are no threat to me and therefore provoke no agression which requires a profane response.
     

  16. #15  
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    Then apparently we simply view the use and emotion behind it differently. There's no way to debate that. >.>
     

  17. #16 I fear the cure more than the disease. 
    j
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    I would prefer to be offended than censored.

    We are all educated people.

    We know how best to express ourselves. Sometimes expression requires strong words.

    Many of us might balance the need for strong expression with discretion by cursing in a foreign language, but that doesn't work in an international setting, does it?
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

  18. #17  
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    It really is up to the admin to make the decision, which will also sets the standard that this forum will operate under,
    IMHO there is no need for it.
    I am sure the majority of people would manage to get there message across quite easily without their use, and find new words for us to look up.
     

  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    It really is up to the admin to make the decision, which will also sets the standard that this forum will operate under,
    IMHO there is no need for it.
    I am sure the majority of people would manage to get there message across quite easily without their use, and find new words for us to look up.
    But they have ask for our input.

    I believe there are occasions for strong language; I believe such language is most effective when it is polysyllabic rather than four-lettered.

    On the other hand, a forum where a couple of dozen people, rather than the respect of our peers, decide what we can or can not say is NOT conducive to the free and inspirational exchange of ideas.

    I would prefer intelligent thought in vulgar terms to delicate and well-expressed inanities.
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    I would prefer intelligent thought in vulgar terms to delicate and well-expressed inanities.
    Agreed. Very well put, J. Also, die, did you read the prior posts regarding the matter? There is a very convincing case towards allowing it as a form of expression, within limits. I'd like to hear some amount of discussion against it rather than a simple "Shouldn't be allowed."
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Junior Bettina's Avatar
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    [quote="Jeremyhfht"]There is a very convincing case towards allowing it as a form of expression, within limits. I'd like to hear some amount of discussion against it rather than a simple "Shouldn't be allowed."[/quote

    I'm only answering this post as my opinion and its not meant to change this forums policy of allowing uncivil vulgarity.

    So, to answer your question above....

    Suppose your young daughter is here because she likes science and some bozo is spouting off fwords because he doesn't like being censored.

    Why isn't it a good idea to speak like school teachers or college professors so you can appeal to all "students" instead of alientating some because a parent blocked this site.

    Why do some here want to turn away young people because parents will consider this an "adult forum".

    How come you won't use fwords in the presence of your neighbers young kids but come in here and use them. Is it because your hidden?.

    I view this forum and similar forums as a teaching tool where even kids can come and learn. There are some really talented people that post here and its a shame that some feel so threatened by the restrictiion of vulgarity, that they wouldn't use in front of their own young children, to cause my ignore list to grow.... and I will miss what you have to say.

    I just don't get it..... "Respect of our Peers?" (cough cough)

    Again, its allowed and I can deal with it but when it starts appearing in the post titles like that from profhamhaw that makes me think my workaround is not working.

    Again,,,, I only answered the question....

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  22. #21 In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Suppose your young daughter is here because she likes science and some bozo is spouting off fwords because he doesn't like being censored.
    My theoretical daughter would be more affected by my behavior that of strangers on a message board and would appreciate that cursing is reserved for times of strong negative emotion, such as when spilling hot grease on one's self or watching a plane fly into a building.

    I only wish that my non-theoretical step-son picked up his bad language on science-boards ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Why isn't it a good idea to speak like school teachers or college professors so you can appeal to all "students" instead of alientating some because a parent blocked this site.
    Because this site is not your school teacher; it's a rough and varied world out here, and people in it curse, some with flair and imagination, and some without.

    If a parent blocks this site for language no rougher than one hears in any traffic-jam, the student will need to look harder for interesting sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Why do some here want to turn away young people because parents will consider this an "adult forum".
    We don't; that is the parents' decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    How come you won't use fwords in the presence of your neighbers young kids but come in here and use them. Is it because your hidden?.
    You assume too much; people may speak thus in front of the neighbors' children.
    Why should we assume anyone on this board is a child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I view this forum and similar forums as a teaching tool where even kids can come and learn. There are some really talented people that post here and its a shame that some feel so threatened by the restrictiion of vulgarity, that they wouldn't use in front of their own young children, to cause my ignore list to grow.... and I will miss what you have to say.
    Others view such fora as places to discuss topics of interest in whatever terminology they chose. I do not come here specifically to associate with children, however interested in science they may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina

    I just don't get it..... "Respect of our Peers?" (cough cough)
    Watch your mouth, young lady. You are getting on my last nerve.

    Do you really think your prissy little cough is less offensive than cursing at me? I find snarky little asides like that far more offensive than the occasional 'fword', but I do not expect this entire board to bow to my sensitivities. I'll suck it up, and go onto a more interesting post, or get right back in your face and tell you to grow up, depending on my mood.

    If I had given birth to a daughter I would rather she cursed like a sailor than expected the world to revolve around her.

    No, your obviously have no concept of respect of your peers, as you certainly have none for your elders.
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

  23. #22  
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    It is about trying to stop standards slipping, surly you can understand that
    Consideration for others is not hard, eventually you get used to it,
    I am sure as educated people you can use other words if you want to.
    Admin, please just make a decision
     

  24. #23  
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    Die Fledermaus,

    It is about trying to stop standards slipping, surly you can understand that
    Agreed.
    Intellectual laziness should be frowned upon. After all, we do want to have intelligent discussions here, yes? Not just slapdash and arbitrary declarations based upon emotional bias?

    Admin, please just make a decision
    It would seem the decision has been made. The administration, luckily, isn't part of the intellectual slobbery.


    Jeremy,

    I'd like to hear some amount of discussion against it rather than a simple "Shouldn't be allowed."
    Surely you realize that your wish is unreasonable. There is no reason other than it "shouldn't be allowed."
    Intellectual laziness at its worst.
     

  25. #24  
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    4(f) Refrain from excessive use of profanity. There are no word filters, so there is no need to experiment what is and what is not possible. Excessive use will be noted and warned against. Again, the verdict is up to a moderators, if you are in risk of a ban, ask the moderators for what you can and can not do, or, even simpler: Don't use profanity at all!
    Most importantly, we discourage swearing. We would rather have a world of flowers and little elves trippling around hugging each other and giving kisses and lots of hearts and love.
    We give users the freedom to express themselves with linguistical.. profundity. But, there are limits - of course. And these are based far more on context and intellectual depth.

    If you ever feel that a post has been edited, where it should not have been - then this may very well be a border-incident, bordering between what is and what is not acceptable. By pm-ing me, I can discuss this with the moderators and improve the system. Better yet, email me at HomoUniversalis@Gmail.com mentioning the name of the board, your username and a link to the post/thread.

    As a member:

    How come you won't use fwords in the presence of your neighbers young kids but come in here and use them. Is it because your hidden?.
    I do this because I respect the decision of those neighbours in that they don't want to expose their children. I feel very strongly about atheism, but would not speak of religion to children because of this reason. I respect the choice of the parents.
    As for children - under the age of 13 - they require the permission of their parents. For those above, I believe that parents should decide whether children can access the internet or not.

    There are some really talented people that post here and its a shame that some feel so threatened by the restrictiion of vulgarity, that they wouldn't use in front of their own young children, to cause my ignore list to grow....
    Vulgarity? Please.

    Mr U
     

  26. #25 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Suppose your young daughter is here because she likes science and some bozo is spouting off fwords because he doesn't like being censored.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    My theoretical daughter would be more affected by my behavior that of strangers on a message board and would appreciate that cursing is reserved for times of strong negative emotion, such as when spilling hot grease on one's self or watching a plane fly into a building.

    I only wish that my non-theoretical step-son picked up his bad language on science-boards ...
    Your making an assumption that your theoretical daughter would be comfortable with hearing fwords from you. Suppose she doesn't. My dad says "Damn" once and awhile when something goes wrong which is a far cry from what you would say. I know their related but its the degree that counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Why isn't it a good idea to speak like school teachers or college professors so you can appeal to all "students" instead of alientating some because a parent blocked this site.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Because this site is not your school teacher; it's a rough and varied world out here, and people in it curse, some with flair and imagination, and some without.

    If a parent blocks this site for language no rougher than one hears in any traffic-jam, the student will need to look harder for interesting sites.
    Everyone on this board who can teach me something correct IS a teacher, at least to me. Just because your comfortable using it at home does not make it ok for you to come here and contribute to "that world out there" you talk about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Why do some here want to turn away young people because parents will consider this an "adult forum".
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    We don't; that is the parents' decision.
    And good parents they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    How come you won't use fwords in the presence of your neighbers young kids but come in here and use them. Is it because your hidden?.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    You assume too much; people may speak thus in front of the neighbors' children.
    Maybe in the ghetto, but I haven't noticed that in my world.

    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Why should we assume anyone on this board is a child?
    Exactly the point. A responsible person would assume that young people may be reading your every word and ACT responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I view this forum and similar forums as a teaching tool where even kids can come and learn. There are some really talented people that post here and its a shame that some feel so threatened by the restrictiion of vulgarity, that they wouldn't use in front of their own young children, to cause my ignore list to grow.... and I will miss what you have to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Others view such fora as places to discuss topics of interest in whatever terminology they chose. I do not come here specifically to associate with children, however interested in science they may be.
    No offense, but that statement tells me a lot about your character and so I don't think I will miss what you have to say when the time comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina

    I just don't get it..... "Respect of our Peers?" (cough cough)
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Watch your mouth, young lady. You are getting on my last nerve.

    Do you really think your prissy little cough is less offensive than cursing at me? I find snarky little asides like that far more offensive than the occasional 'fword', but I do not expect this entire board to bow to my sensitivities. I'll suck it up, and go onto a more interesting post, or get right back in your face and tell you to grow up, depending on my mood.

    If I had given birth to a daughter I would rather she cursed like a sailor than expected the world to revolve around her.

    No, your obviously have no concept of respect of your peers, as you certainly have none for your elders.
    I apologize to you for that [cough] remark. Its not like me to do that and I'm sorry.

    Don't be offended. I don't know what kind of person your really like but I will find out as time goes on. But as for me, I'm more like the girl dressed as Snow White who greets your kids at Disneyworld. Thats the way I was brought up.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  27. #26  
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    My 2-cents:

    So far, I've posted something like 360 times without having to use profanity. I think the one time I did, I wrote something like "f'n." Hopefully that is not too offensive.

    Anyway, I don't get offended when I see it but it is probably not necessary that it be used (in my opinion). And if it IS necessary, would "f**k" or something of the like suffice for you Bettina? Just a suggestion....

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  28. #27 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    If I had given birth to a daughter I would rather she cursed like a sailor than expected the world to revolve around her.
    Can I be your daughter, J?

    Hopefully that is not too offensive.
    It´s all about context. Besides, we are all-too-willing to turn a blind eye to contributing members. :wink: These rules are to prohibit people from using profanity excessively and where it can be disturbing.

    Mr U
     

  29. #28  
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    Why dont you guys install some profanity filters and if the odd swear word bothers you then you can enable the filter and live in an asterisks filled heaven?
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
     

  30. #29  
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    It doesn't bother the moderation team to an extent. As explained, when used in a proper manner, some profanity is allowed. Excessive and unrequired profanity, on the other hand, is not. The debate from the other side so far is that profanity is never required, and thus should not be allowed.
     

  31. #30  
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    Seems morel like their whole argument is profanity is bad. And only bad people (lowlifes) use it. Do you use it in front of your kids? If so, you're a lowlife and no point of further discussion. If not, then why not?

    They've set themselves up in an unbreachable little haven of emotionally built walls.

    However, they hang over an abyss of nothing. Their argument is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
    Hell, not even that. It's pure delusion, in my book.
     

  32. #31 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I don't know what kind of person your really like but I will find out as time goes on.

    Bettina
    No, you don't, but you have been quite free with your assumptions, haven't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    "Damn" ... is a far cry from what you would say...

    Just because your comfortable using it at home ....
    If you care to make the effort to review my post history and excerpt each instance of vulgar language, with adequate context, I will defend each use, or apologize to my peers in this community.

    Frankly, I do not consider you among them. Those who wish to learn must be prepared to face some unpleasantness in the process. 'No pain, no gain' applies to the intellect as well as the [desparately trying to think of a muscle that begins with 'in..'] body.

    I really do not know how to say this without sounding cruel, but you need to learn that the world does revolve around you and your Disney fantasies. Cough up that apple and wake up!
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

  33. #32  
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    Mr U:
    If you are willing to make the necessary sacrifice, I will adopt you.

    River_Rat:
    Only if we can filter whining.

    IN:
    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Seems morel like their whole argument is profanity is bad. And only bad people (lowlifes) use it.
    Actually, the problem most people have with profanity is that it is intellectually lazy. It is more demanding [and usually more fun] to use four four syllable words than one four letter one.

    I dislike excessive profanity because it robs the words of their power; we really don't have a lot of good strong words, and I think we should save them for when we really mean them, instead of sprinkling them throughout our sentences like jimmies on an ice cream cone.
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

  34. #33 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I don't know what kind of person your really like but I will find out as time goes on.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    No, you don't, but you have been quite free with your assumptions, haven't you?
    My assumptions are based on your own words below. With those, I can come close.

    "I do not come here specifically to associate with children, however interested in science they may be."
    "I would prefer to be offended than censored."
    "I would prefer intelligent thought in vulgar terms to delicate and well-expressed inanities."
    "Why should we assume anyone on this board is a child?"
    "If I had given birth to a daughter I would rather she cursed like a sailor than expected the world to revolve around her."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    "Damn" ... is a far cry from what you would say...
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Just because your comfortable using it at home ....
    I never said I used it. (and I don't). I merely referenced the worst word my dad uses as a comparison to the word you feel comfortable with.

    Quote Originally Posted by j
    If you care to make the effort to review my post history and excerpt each instance of vulgar language, with adequate context, I will defend each use, or apologize to my peers in this community.
    You don't have to defend or apologize for anything. You have the right to use any form of profanity you choose in accordance with forum rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Frankly, I do not consider you among them. Those who wish to learn must be prepared to face some unpleasantness in the process. 'No pain, no gain' applies to the intellect as well as the [desparately trying to think of a muscle that begins with 'in..'] body. I really do not know how to say this without sounding cruel, but you need to learn that the world does revolve around you and your Disney fantasies. Cough up that apple and wake up!
    I don't have the level of intellect or writing skills that you have, and coupled with your distaste for what I stand for, it is obvious that I could never be your peer. I am fully aware of the "real world" and like it or not that world is molded and shaped by all kinds of people, all kinds of character, and all kinds children who learn from the contributions people make.....and how they make them.

    Disney fantasies? I don't get it, but anyway you have a different set of principles than I do and I will never "cough up that apple". I will use the ignore feature first.

    BTW. Thank you for not using the fword in your responses to me and hope your not too mad.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  35. #34 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
    j
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    Are two people using this screen name?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I'm more like the girl dressed as Snow White who greets your kids at Disneyworld. Thats the way I was brought up.

    Bettina
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Disney fantasies? I don't get it,
    You mis-read my post; I was pointing out that you implicated that I use profanity freely without evidence [not, BTW, a good idea for a scientist].

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I will use the ignore feature first.
    Well then this whole discussion is over; you can ignore those whose language you think prevents a cogent exposition of thought.

    You know, I asked that the Ignore feature be implemented when a little hooligan named Perfect was raving around the board [remember Perfect, guys? Did he ever come back?].

    I could never bring myself to use it, not even on Perfect.
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    I could never bring myself to use it, not even on Perfect.
    So virtuous was he that he asked the Lord to bestow upon him the power to sin, yet virtuous he remained.

    Quote Originally Posted by bettina
    I don't have the level of intellect or writing skills that you have, and coupled with your distaste for what I stand for, it is obvious that I could never be your peer.
    This I find disturbing. The internet grants you the opportunity to see everyone as your peer with little or no repercussion, and yet you consciously and willfully reject that notion.

    Hmm.. In retrospect, I see you have not replied to my posts. I'm not on your ignore list am I, Bettina? :P

    Mr U
     

  37. #36 Re: In short, we can't wrap you in bubble-pack. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Are two people using this screen name?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I'm more like the girl dressed as Snow White who greets your kids at Disneyworld. Thats the way I was brought up.

    Bettina
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Disney fantasies? I don't get it,
    You mis-read my post; I was pointing out that you implicated that I use profanity freely without evidence [not, BTW, a good idea for a scientist].
    Just one using this screen name and I didn't misread it. You said the world does revolve around you and your Disney fantasies (I'm sure I misread your word "does")

    All I referenced was the fact that I am like the girl who greets the kids at the park. Kids tend to look up to her and in real life I'm like her. I sing in two churches, concerts, and lifeguard at the kids pool. I was told by many parents that their kids look up to me so I make sure I behave. Its not hard, give it a try. I don't know where you got Disney Fantasies.

    I feel like the little kid when I'm here. There are some posters here that I tend to look up to. Others I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I will use the ignore feature first.
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Well then this whole discussion is over; you can ignore those whose language you think prevents a cogent exposition of thought.

    You know, I asked that the Ignore feature be implemented when a little hooligan named Perfect was raving around the board [remember Perfect, guys? Did he ever come back?].

    I could never bring myself to use it, not even on Perfect.
    I will use it.

    BTW, I did bother to check your other posts as you requested I do but when I select your profile and select "view all posts by j", I get nothing. It works fine on other posters but not yours.

    And your right. This discussion has run its course.

    Bettina.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis

    So virtuous was he that he asked the Lord to bestow upon him the power to sin, yet virtuous he remained.
    Ouch!!!
    Did I really come off that smug and self-righteous?
    [A good education is a lot better than a low vocabulary for really sticking it to some-one.]

    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Quote Originally Posted by bettina
    ... it is obvious that I could never be your peer.
    This I find disturbing. The internet grants you the opportunity to see everyone as your peer with little or no repercussion, and yet you consciously and willfully reject that notion.
    To be fair, I was the one who said
    "... my peers in this community. Frankly, I do not consider you among them. "

    Betty Boop deserves a pass on that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    I could never bring myself to use it, not even on Perfect.
    So virtuous was he that he asked the Lord to bestow upon him the power to sin, yet virtuous he remained.

    Quote Originally Posted by bettina
    I don't have the level of intellect or writing skills that you have, and coupled with your distaste for what I stand for, it is obvious that I could never be your peer.
    This I find disturbing. The internet grants you the opportunity to see everyone as your peer with little or no repercussion, and yet you consciously and willfully reject that notion.

    Hmm.. In retrospect, I see you have not replied to my posts. I'm not on your ignore list am I, Bettina? :P

    Mr U
    No, your not on my ignore list. I have only one there so far and I must have missed the post I was to reply to. Sorry, I don't see it.

    BTW, "J" was the one who said he didn't view me as a peer. That disturbed me too, so I just went along with him.

    Bettina
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  40. #39  
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    Actually, the problem most people have with profanity is that it is intellectually lazy. It is more demanding [and usually more fun] to use four four syllable words than one four letter one.
    I agree that this is a common argument against the use of profanity, however, it doesn't seem to be much in evidence in this particular discussion. I believe it has been mentioned ever so briefly, but the main thrust of the anti-profanity league is based on purely moral grounds. Or at least that's what I've gathered so far.

    However, I do not believe in a correlation between profanity and stupidity. And neither do I find it necessarily intellectually lazy.
    It can be, sure.
    But is not, in itself, a sure sign.

    That is, a person cannot glance through someone's post looking for 'fwords'. And if an 'fword' is spotted, then conclude that the entire post is worthless and evidence of intellectual laziness or even sheer stupidity.

    I also do not believe that it is proper criteria for determining someone's status, either morally or socially (lowlife is an ambiguous term.)

    I find it far more intellectually lazy to use such a shoddy criteria to judge someone rather than actually reading their post (or listening to their words) and judging the content of the message rather than a couple of keywords.


    You know, I asked that the Ignore feature be implemented when a little hooligan named Perfect was raving around the board [remember Perfect, guys? Did he ever come back?].
    Heh.
    That was you, wasn't it?
    Man. That was many moons ago.
    I'd forgotten you were involved in that.

    Perfect isn't even posting over at the other place.
    He's probably off getting drunk somewhere.

    He was quite vulgar, but he had an intellect and a message to get across at times. He was just extremely abrasive about it.

    It's a pity that he wasn't understood better. But, I doubt if he really cared much. So, it's not that big a deal.
     

  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    However, I do not believe in a correlation between profanity and stupidity.
    No, I agree with you there. But I think it is lazy. English, especially American English, has incorporated words from so many languages with slightly different connotations we have a wealth of insulting and unpleasant words.

    I am probably just being old and nostalgic; my parents would allow the children to insult each other only polysyllabically or in a foreign language. I always was familiar with more germanic and latin root words than any of my class-mates, and I can actually curse in Inuit. My sister used to boast she could say 'Eat shit and die' in eight languages, including ASL. Ah, family.

    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Heh.
    That was you, wasn't it?
    ...
    It's a pity that he wasn't understood better. But, I doubt if he really cared much. So, it's not that big a deal.
    That was when that other board's server crashed; I logged on there once, and scurried away in a heartbeat.

    Perfect did have a feel for words, and there was no windmill he wouldn't tilt at, but he never did quite get conforming to local community standards, did he?
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

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    All this talk about 'Perfect' made me curious enough to look up his past posts. From what little I read, I must say, he is the most entertaining poster I've ever read. Has a real flair for words - kind of poetic.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
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  43. #42  
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    When I saw the pyramids at Giza for the first I thought they were smaller than I had expected. When I visited Kuala Lumpur and saw their Twin Towers, at that time the tallest buildings in the world, they were shorter than I had expected. When I first walked through a tropical jungle it was a lot more passable than I expected. The list goes on. Everything slightly disappointing compared to expectation. Until............

    When I saw the Grand Canyon I was so astounded I said **** continuously for fifteen minutes. There really wasn't anything else to say. And I really cannot think of another word that could have conveyed my emotions as accurately.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Ouch!!!
    Did I really come off that smug and self-righteous?
    [A good education is a lot better than a low vocabulary for really sticking it to some-one.]
    No, no. My words were a rejection of such a (future-perhaps by bettina :P) sarcastic remark. I felt it was worthy of a reply, but I did not see it as a negative, no, not at all.
     

  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Ouch!!!
    Did I really come off that smug and self-righteous?
    [A good education is a lot better than a low vocabulary for really sticking it to some-one.]
    No, no. My words were a rejection of such a (future-perhaps by bettina :P) sarcastic remark. I felt it was worthy of a reply, but I did not see it as a negative, no, not at all.
    Thank you. Still, I will take it as a warning, lest I start talking about 'in my day, ...', or, even worse, 'kids today ...'. [Shudders and checks the mirror for wrinkles around the neck.]

    Actually, I think I was trying to express some sympathy for the B-girl, and still preach against the willful embrace of ignorance of anything. [I am not certain why I think never reading someone's post is better than Ignoring them, but I do.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Everything slightly disappointing compared to expectation. Until............

    When I saw the Grand Canyon I was so astounded I said **** continuously for fifteen minutes
    Isn't it just, though?

    [I kept muttering terms of searing intellectuality, such as 'wow' and 'oh,my'; BTW, how does one pronounce ****?]

    Did you ever see a Sequoia? They don't look as BIG 'in person', but are somehow still more impressive than in photographs.

    And Bettina? You have got to watch those assumptions.
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    And Bettina? You have got to watch those assumptions.
    I will in the future, but since I get the feeling your goading me now, I thought I had them nailed pretty close. :wink:

    Bee
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

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    Holy fuck. I know this is an old thread, but come on now. There is nothing wrong with swearing, and as truly intelligent people we should know better than to believe otherwise. Just because I swear doesn't mean I'm less articulate than any of you people who don't; in fact, I still know how to use the semicolon properly--a skill so many of you lack.

    While I generally say fuck only for emphasis, other swear words have their own meanings. Censorhip isn't the answer and should never be employed around here. I personally found it impressive when I typed the word "bullshit" and it came out just like that--without any silly asterisks in a half-assed attempt to protect the fragiles or anything. Please keep up the darn good work, admins! Don't wuss out the way so many forums do!
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    pseudo, let me be the first to say that upon reading your post, I think I may have to change my vote to "never allow swearing". Seriously, you've damaged the philosophy discussion FOR allowing some swearing severely.

    Also, while some swearing is allowed, you've used a leetle more than is even needed. Don't push the limits, as a moderator will still edit you for excessive profanity.
     

  49. #48  
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    Although I am personally against all profanity on forums, - I accept I was out-voted and, 'out debated'. As a moderator I will therefore put aside my personal feelings when coming across instances and instead, apply what I think Jeremy is indicating, that is, editing [that which I interpret as,] gratuitous profanity.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    There is nothing wrong with swearing, and as truly intelligent people we should know better than to believe otherwise.
    No intelligent person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across which is why I never once heard it from a teacher or professor who stood in front of a classroom full of students. This forum is very much like a classroom whose participants range from students and teachers, to young kids and elderly adults, so your statement above is wrong. Would you look at your 8 year old daughter and say "You look &$&## beautiful? If not, then why do it here.

    The people on this forum are invisible which becomes more of a reason to be sensible about the use of fwords. I don't care about your excellent use of the semicolon as much as your crude form of vocabulary. I'm not a prude, and sometimes I can get ticked off at a certain comment and reply in a sarcastic manner, so I'm not perfect but I would never use the fword for emphasis. Please don't consider this a flame because its not intended to be, but just because your "book smart", doesn't mean your "people smart".

    I don't like putting people on my ignore list because it means their gone for good and that bothers me. I already have two there now and I try not to have more but I was born with a certain character and set of principles that I adhere to. I'm going to give you the last word but I hope your not gone after that.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

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    i believe swearing allows my inner man to represent himself. i never want to stop swearing for fear of turning into a woman so now can you see why you should let me swear dammmmit?
     

  52. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    No intelligent person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across
    I'd rather you had said 'No person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across'

    Since your original statement could be considered a personal insult, ie you are suggesting that any person who uses the the 'fword' [to get their point across] is not intelligent. - This is simply a false belief you have. Ad-homs are discouraged here.

    In any post the first 5 or 6 words are the most important - SS by saying 'holy fuck' as an opener has lost 1/3rd of this impact. It shows to me the opposite of that he desires, ie he is not emphasising anything with that as an opener - the more he uses such profanity the less effect it has on his posts or parts he wishes to emphasise.

    By using profanity in posts and knowing there are some who will ignore you because of this, you are restricting the number of people who will read it, and therefore the number of replies, maybe even one which would contain the answer you desire! - that is the cost of profanity.

    I suggest from this that as we want our posts read by the maximum number of readers, profanity is a disadvantage - but these are personal opinions.

    I would urge you look beyond the language of a post. However unpaletable to you personally (and I,) profanity is here to stay - profanity
    is problably as old as language itself.
     

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    I remember hearing the words of a New Scientist Editor-in-Chief repeated by Richard Dawkins:

    "what's happening in science is the most interesting thing in the world, and if you don't agree with me just fuck off, because I'm not interested in talking to you"
    Aside from fuck occupying the mind of one of the most important intellectuals of the world.. Look at the work of deSade.. It is filled with vulgar language, and more than that.. Descriptions of vulgar acts, raping of young girls and young boys...
    However, through this cruelty, deSade makes a point about morality and for those who read his books unrestricted by politically correct Zeitgeist, they may find a wealth of intellectualism.

    Mr U
     

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    There are times where I feel harsh language *can* better emphasize a point but on a science forum those situations are few and far between. Mr. U's quote of Dawkins I think is a good example - any other word choice would lessen the impact of what he's saying. "Fuck off" hits you like a ton of bricks in that case and at times, it's what you're looking for.
    Of course in everyday usage and most of the time on forums people overuse it and cheapen it so that it really doesn't add much.
    But I certainly do disagree with the point of view that it NEVER adds the desired emphasis or ALWAYS indicates a lack of intelligence - or any other black and white assessment.
    But like I said, with this being a science forum I don't really see the need to use that kind of language 99.9% of the time. I'd like to think that if used in moderation it shouldn't be a big deal.
    Vulgarity used in personal comments/attacks though should certainly be modded though.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    No intelligent person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across
    I'd rather you had said 'No person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across'

    Since your original statement could be considered a personal insult, ie you are suggesting that any person who uses the the 'fword' [to get their point across] is not intelligent. - This is simply a false belief you have. Ad-homs are discouraged here.
    God, I didn't expect that bumping the hornets nest would have produced so many fwords in these replys.... I find that sad.

    I apologize for my statement and should have said it like you suggested. It wasn't my intention to insult anyone for using the fword and like I have said before, I respect a posters right to use the fword as long as he respects my right to place him on my ignore list.

    By using profanity in posts and knowing there are some who will ignore you because of this, you are restricting the number of people who will read it, and therefore the number of replies, maybe even one which would contain the answer you desire! - that is the cost of profanity.
    I also lose the knowledge contained in a persons post or reply so the sword cuts both ways. However, I will never lower my standards for the few and I will use the ignore function to permanetly lose them. Anyway, again, I apologize for my comment and I have no problem with this forum. There are many respectable posters here.

    Bettina
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  56. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    In any post the first 5 or 6 words are the most important - SS by saying 'holy fuck' as an opener has lost 1/3rd of this impact. It shows to me the opposite of that he desires, ie he is not emphasising anything with that as an opener - the more he uses such profanity the less effect it has on his posts or parts he wishes to emphasise.
    And my post obviously missed the mark. I don't usually swear that much when I'm online; I did it only because this is a thread on swearing. There was nothing I wanted to emphasize in my previous post other than my dislike towards snobs who dismiss swear words as "unintelligent." As I've said, swear words have their own meanings--we should be able to freely use them instead of resorting to substitute words that sound funny. (I think the word "darn" sounds funny, but maybe that's just me.)

    By using profanity in posts and knowing there are some who will ignore you because of this, you are restricting the number of people who will read it, and therefore the number of replies, maybe even one which would contain the answer you desire! - that is the cost of profanity.
    IMHO, people who put me on their ignore list because they see me use the "f-word" once or twice are probably not worth my time anyway. It's not like I say the "f-word" for fun (not always that is), and it's their loss because while I do not need their readership, they're going to miss out on a lot of intelligent and witty comments coming from this extremely wise, mature, and humble person--just because of one darn "f-word."

    I also don't like to ask when I can just read. This is a science forum and I'm science-illiterate. I doubt any question that will ever cross my head has never been discussed before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    But like I said, with this being a science forum I don't really see the need to use that kind of language 99.9% of the time. I'd like to think that if used in moderation it shouldn't be a big deal.
    I completely agree. I'm not expecting to use a lot of swear words around here 99.9% of the time, but in the (rare) event that I want to swear, I don't want to have to be considerate and type, for example, "darn" instead of "damn." Tolerance goes both ways; if I can tolerate your lack of enthusiasm for swearing, then you should also tolerate my occasional need to swear without becoming all condescending.

    Vulgarity used in personal comments/attacks though should certainly be modded though.
    Just for the record, I can launch very nice insults without using any vulgar words. I think we should pay more attention to the overall content rather than to specific words that some deem unacceptable on a public forum. Just my two cents.
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    Thanks for the reply Ps-sci I appreciate it. And I would urge Bettina to read it if she has not already done so.

    quote"
    Just for the record, I can launch very nice insults without using any vulgar words. I think we should pay more attention to the overall content rather than to specific words that some deem unacceptable on a public forum.
    Just my two cents."

    I'm sure you are right, but in this forum that is seen as one losing the argument - and will [if spotted] be moderated.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I'm sure you are right, but in this forum that is seen as one losing the argument - and will [if spotted] be moderated.
    Is it really? Since I'm not science-oriented and this is a science forum, I was expecting to see a lot of discussions that would fly right over my head. Unfortunately, in the short time I've been here, I've also come across a few posts that crack me up in a sad way. If I ever insulted people who made these blatantly ignorant comments, I wouldn't exactly consider it "losing the argument."

    Still, I can't help but feel that you missed my point. What I was trying to achieve with my previous statement was not bragging about my admirable talent. Instead, I was merely suggesting that words cannot--or should not--be offensive by themselves; it's how we (ab)use them that matters. There will be a post that contains thirteen swear words and sounds stupid rather than offensive, and there will be a post that contains no swear words at all and be very hurtful. In a case like this, I think it's just strange if the former would be deleted completely while the latter could stay.
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  59. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    No intelligent person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across
    I'd rather you had said 'No person ever needs to use the fword to get their point across'

    Since your original statement could be considered a personal insult, ie you are suggesting that any person who uses the the 'fword' [to get their point across] is not intelligent. - This is simply a false belief you have. Ad-homs are discouraged here.
    God, I didn't expect that bumping the hornets nest would have produced so many fwords in these replys.... I find that sad.

    I apologize for my statement and should have said it like you suggested. It wasn't my intention to insult anyone for using the fword and like I have said before, I respect a posters right to use the fword as long as he respects my right to place him on my ignore list.
    It´s not really like you can read his posts if he disrespects you, now can he?

    By using profanity in posts and knowing there are some who will ignore you because of this, you are restricting the number of people who will read it, and therefore the number of replies, maybe even one which would contain the answer you desire! - that is the cost of profanity.
    I also lose the knowledge contained in a persons post or reply so the sword cuts both ways. However, I will never lower my standards for the few and I will use the ignore function to permanetly lose them. Anyway, again, I apologize for my comment and I have no problem with this forum. There are many respectable posters here.
    Lower your standards? How is this for a standard where you merely cited an article, not even writing your name out in full under your name.

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    Is it really? Since I'm not science-oriented and this is a science forum, I was expecting to see a lot of discussions that would fly right over my head. Unfortunately, in the short time I've been here, I've also come across a few posts that crack me up in a sad way. If I ever insulted people who made these blatantly ignorant comments, I wouldn't exactly consider it "losing the argument."
    Blatantly ignorant? It is possible to defend almost every position and if that position is defied by clear scientific research, there is a time for education - methinks. But to speak of ignorance is.. dangereus..

    Mr U
     

  60. #59  
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    My reply was as a moderator - there are many threads here where it is plain to see the guy who resorts to insults has 'lost it' - what you appear to be indicating now is that upon coming across some ludicrous suggestion and insulting the poster, is the same as having actively contributed to a thread and then losing it. Clearly it is not, I was generalising.

    As to your final comment, let me clarify, if you come across a post in a thread and say "That's the biggest load of bollocks I've seen since visiting a slaughterhouse" - fine no problem you are attacking a post, hopefully you would then add a link that suggests the opposite is true.

    If however you were to say "Your head cointains the biggest etc..
    or you directly insult the poster - then it will be deleted/edited.

    If a post contains excessive profanity, or 'unneccessary profanity' it may also be edited. in summary let me assure you 'the latter will not stay.
     

  61. #60  
    Forum Junior Bettina's Avatar
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    Although I'm 18, I have a lot of contact with kids much younger than me through church functions and town concerts I sing at, to the town park where I work in the summer months teaching swimming safety and telling childrens stories. I also volunteered in a childrens cancer ward last summer and I can tell you that word is never heard there. Because of my contact with younger kids, I hold myself to a set of standards and I always make sure I behave as if some kid I know is watching me. That part is easy because I was brought up that way anyway.

    So, since this thread is about swearing in public, I'm going to go out on a limb again, and say that fwords have no place in any public forum just like they have no place in a teaching institution. I, personally, don't mind any of the other minor swear words but that one is out for me. So, outside this thread I will use the ignore feature no matter who it is. Gee, its just that one word. How hard is it to not use it. Where is the respect for mixed company? I don't want to talk anymore on this subject because it seems the more I do, the more people swear.

    Pseudoscientist, your very interesting and articulate and I apologize if you felt singled out. Your not on my ignore list because this thread is where the fword is being discussed although I disagree with your point of view completely. I only have two people on my list so the problem isn't that big that it becomes pointless to even be here. Again, I want to learn things and will if you give it a chance.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bettina
    Gee, its just that one word. How hard is it to not use it.
    Somebody has to say it:

    just how hard is it for you to ignore this word when you come across it?
    As I said, nobody expects you to lower your standards, just review and update them - if neccessary, if you decide you cannot accept this word then fine, carry on as you are, you see value in staying here - we appreciate your contributions - I see them as a balance, an example of how to debate without profanity.
     

  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Although I'm 18, I have a lot of contact with kids much younger than me through church functions and town concerts I sing at, to the town park where I work in the summer months teaching swimming safety and telling childrens stories. I also volunteered in a childrens cancer ward last summer and I can tell you that word is never heard there. Because of my contact with younger kids, I hold myself to a set of standards and I always make sure I behave as if some kid I know is watching me. That part is easy because I was brought up that way anyway.
    I know of all the members below the age of thirteen at this forum. There are none. There are no children here. There may be teens here, but no children. Aside from that, there is not a single scientific study that states that knowledge of the word `fuck´ poses any problem for children whatsoever.

    So, since this thread is about swearing in public, I'm going to go out on a limb again, and say that fwords have no place in any public forum just like they have no place in a teaching institution. I, personally, don't mind any of the other minor swear words but that one is out for me. So, outside this thread I will use the ignore feature no matter who it is. Gee, its just that one word. How hard is it to not use it. Where is the respect for mixed company? I don't want to talk anymore on this subject because it seems the more I do, the more people swear.
    To be absolutely clear - this is not a public forum. You can´t join unless you are older than thirteen (or you have to send in a form which includes parental consent) and you have to agree to the terms of agreement when joining.
    As for your ignore function - I'm curious to know whether you can ignore an administrator, so try it out.

    Pseudo, since I have only now read your first post in this thread - thanks. When I were to censor `fuck´ for `f#ck´ or something other uncreative, nothing would really change. It would only suit the arbitrary standards of people I believe are not the primary group of orientation of this forum.

    To be honest, I prefer a bad spelled reply riddled with profanity that contains a unique, interesting thought over nicely typed, politically correct meaningless rhetoric.

    Mr U
     

  64. #63  
    Forum Freshman pseudoscientist's Avatar
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    Blatantly ignorant? It is possible to defend almost every position and if that position is defied by clear scientific research, there is a time for education - methinks. But to speak of ignorance is.. dangereus..
    No, not really. I'm not the smartest person on this planet, but even with that kind of background, it's not that hard for me to recognize a "blatantly ignorant" comment when I see one. I wish I could provide an example, but I don't want it to resemble too much to something I have seen here in the past twenty-four hours and therefore put someone on the spot.

    Because of my contact with younger kids, I hold myself to a set of standards and I always make sure I behave as if some kid I know is watching me. That part is easy because I was brought up that way anyway.
    Believe me, I was not brought up to be swearing left and right. My mother would slap me every time I accidentally slipped out a bad word. ("I didn't send you to school so you could talk like an uneducated eejit, you eejit!") The key here is to be more flexible and know how to adjust ourselves to our surroundings. I don't cuss when I'm around little kids or good Christians (if I happen to respect them, that is), and I certainly don't cuss around my mother.

    However, I expect an intellectual circle like this forum to be more accepting of swear words. Swear words are part of the real world; let's not pretend like they don't exist and stay in our happyland where everything goes our way and where we are spared from those nasty words that are evil just because. And I've said a couple times, swear words have their own definitions and should be used accordingly.
    "Let's all be friends!" -- Barney (the dinosaur)
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    I'm ashamed of your public display of ignorance.
     

  65. #64  
    Forum Junior Bettina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Although I'm 18, I have a lot of contact with kids much younger than me through church functions and town concerts I sing at, to the town park where I work in the summer months teaching swimming safety and telling childrens stories. I also volunteered in a childrens cancer ward last summer and I can tell you that word is never heard there. Because of my contact with younger kids, I hold myself to a set of standards and I always make sure I behave as if some kid I know is watching me. That part is easy because I was brought up that way anyway.
    I know of all the members below the age of thirteen at this forum. There are none. There are no children here. There may be teens here, but no children. Aside from that, there is not a single scientific study that states that knowledge of the word `fuck´ poses any problem for children whatsoever.

    So, since this thread is about swearing in public, I'm going to go out on a limb again, and say that fwords have no place in any public forum just like they have no place in a teaching institution. I, personally, don't mind any of the other minor swear words but that one is out for me. So, outside this thread I will use the ignore feature no matter who it is. Gee, its just that one word. How hard is it to not use it. Where is the respect for mixed company? I don't want to talk anymore on this subject because it seems the more I do, the more people swear.
    To be absolutely clear - this is not a public forum. You can´t join unless you are older than thirteen (or you have to send in a form which includes parental consent) and you have to agree to the terms of agreement when joining.
    As for your ignore function - I'm curious to know whether you can ignore an administrator, so try it out.

    Pseudo, since I have only now read your first post in this thread - thanks. When I were to censor `fuck´ for `f#ck´ or something other uncreative, nothing would really change. It would only suit the arbitrary standards of people I believe are not the primary group of orientation of this forum.

    To be honest, I prefer a bad spelled reply riddled with profanity that contains a unique, interesting thought over nicely typed, politically correct meaningless rhetoric.

    Mr U
    Since your the boss, I'm a little shaky talking with you so bear with me.
    I knew if I replied in this thread, that there might be a chance it would blow up in my face. It did, and now I'm ticked at myself for letting that happen and I hope I haven't opened the profanity floodgates.

    As the boss, you've defended your position on the use of profanity and at the same time you let me know what orientation group I'm in, but hey, I knew where I stood already so thats no big deal. I just hope you use good judgement on the fword use and just forget about what I said in this thread .

    I like some of the posters here and I've learned a lot so I'm not going to threaten to leave. I'm also not going to put you on my ignore list because your the admin and I need to know if something urgent comes up but I will on the other posters outside this thread.

    Sorry for my meddling, no reply neccessary.

    Bee


    [quote="pseudoscientist"]
    Believe me, I was not brought up to be swearing left and right. My mother would slap me every time I accidentally slipped out a bad word. ("I didn't send you to school so you could talk like an uneducated eejit, you eejit!") The key here is to be more flexible and know how to adjust ourselves to our surroundings. I don't cuss when I'm around little kids or good Christians (if I happen to respect them, that is), and I certainly don't cuss around my mother.

    However, I expect an intellectual circle like this forum to be more accepting of swear words. Swear words are part of the real world; let's not pretend like they don't exist and stay in our happyland where everything goes our way and where we are spared from those nasty words that are evil just because. And I've said a couple times, swear words have their own definitions and should be used accordingly.
    I believe your first paragraph completely and disagree with your second. Would you have let your mother see the fwords you would type in this forum? And if she did see them, would she be proud of you or disappointed? Its all about respect and believe me I know what my dad would do....

    Its all about image. When I read an an interesting post, and if the person is a good writer, I can put his words into pictures and animate them so they play out in my mind. But, when I see the injected fword the picture disolves and I end up wondering if this person has an inferiority complex that needed an emphasis. Maybe its a testosterone thing.

    Anyway, hands still shaking, I've lost the argument here so what I say no longer matters. I just want you to know that I apologize for jumping on you and please remember that I'm very much like the Snow White you see at disneyworld who greets your kids as they enter the park. We can't help what we are.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  66. #65  
    Forum Freshman pseudoscientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    I believe your first paragraph completely and disagree with your second. Would you have let your mother see the fwords you would type in this forum? And if she did see them, would she be proud of you or disappointed? Its all about respect and believe me I know what my dad would do....
    I just want to point out that you missed the irony. Despite what she likes to tell me, my mother has a nasty mouth herself. She is also often guilty of cussing when she thinks no one (particularly me) is listening. She knows very well I cuss, and I have achieved enough in my life that my tendency to cuss would not make her any less proud of me.

    But in essence: swear words do not indicate immorality. If I didn't happen to be considerate and realize that no swear words shall reach the ears of little children and good Christians (for whatever bizarre reason), I would not hold back wherever I go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with profanity, and I have to leave it there to avoid saying something rude.
    "Let's all be friends!" -- Barney (the dinosaur)
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    I'm ashamed of your public display of ignorance.
     

  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    But in essence: swear words do not indicate immorality. If I didn't happen to be considerate and realize that no swear words shall reach the ears of little children and good Christians (for whatever bizarre reason), I would not hold back wherever I go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with profanity, and I have to leave it there to avoid saying something rude.
    You didn't hold back profanity today in another thread which got deleted along with my reply in which I stated that I put you, and another person on my ignore list. I removed them because I thought I was being unfair.

    I wanted to be friends with you because your a good debater and someone I could learn from, but that post today, and what your saying now, is leading me to believe that our principles and character are going to clash. Believe me, when I push the ignore button, I feel sick about it and the next day I remove it. But, it doesn't take long for that person to show me why I did it and I put it back permanently.

    I was told by a moderator not to mention publicly who I'm going to ignore so I will obey the rules.

    Bee
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  68. #67  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    But in essence: swear words do not indicate immorality. If I didn't happen to be considerate and realize that no swear words shall reach the ears of little children and good Christians (for whatever bizarre reason), I would not hold back wherever I go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with profanity, and I have to leave it there to avoid saying something rude.
    You didn't hold back profanity today in another thread which got deleted along with my reply in which I stated that I put you, and another person on my ignore list. I removed them because I thought I was being unfair.

    I wanted to be friends with you because your a good debater and someone I could learn from, but that post today, and what your saying now, is leading me to believe that our principles and character are going to clash. Believe me, when I push the ignore button, I feel sick about it and the next day I remove it. But, it doesn't take long for that person to show me why I did it and I put it back permanently.

    I was told by a moderator not to mention publicly who I'm going to ignore so I will obey the rules.

    Bee
    Bettina,

    It was not a thread that was deleted but two posts today - in accordance with the rule that they were off topic. There were were no "Mod Edits".

    It is not policy in this forum to make public the contents of PMs without the express consent of the sender. You were not "told" and I quote:

    "If you have need to Ignore somebody please do not publicly announce it. "

    That is advice - you are free to ignore but I would not advise it, - you did not see the post which followed it - you were off line.

    THis is a forum for debate - you may debate profanity [in the forum] here, as puedo science is clearly doing. Your post above IMHO is nothing more than private chit chat - which I ask you to continue between yourselves by PM.
    Megabrain.
     

  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Bettina,

    It was not a thread that was deleted but two posts today - in accordance with the rule that they were off topic. There were were no "Mod Edits".

    It is not policy in this forum to make public the contents of PMs without the express consent of the sender. You were not "told" and I quote:

    "If you have need to Ignore somebody please do not publicly announce it. "

    That is advice - you are free to ignore but I would not advise it, - you did not see the post which followed it - you were off line.

    THis is a forum for debate - you may debate profanity [in the forum] here, as puedo science is clearly doing. Your post above IMHO is nothing more than private chit chat - which I ask you to continue between yourselves by PM.
    Megabrain.
    I'm really disappointed in myself but I completely give up. By the replys in this thread it was clear that I wasn't very good at defending my position or had any chance to push this forum to a higher level of standards. Its not my forum and its time for me to let the subject go before I get into more trouble. That, I don't want.

    Since the posters who use profanity, or consider it neccessary, are very clearly in the minority anyway, the argument just isn't worth the trouble I caused. So, I will take your advice and push the ignore button secretly and without comment but I will do it permanetly. I don't think losing those kind of posters will hurt my chances to pick up something useful or get a question answered.

    I like cosmology, hate religions that hurt people, and love to debate so I'm sure I will find plenty of people here that have character similar to mine. Sorry for causing so much trouble but I have it solved now.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  70. #69  
    Forum Freshman pseudoscientist's Avatar
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    Just a quick question: what thread was it? I posted something nasty today? Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time, and I think I've forgotten this before. :?
    "Let's all be friends!" -- Barney (the dinosaur)
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    I'm ashamed of your public display of ignorance.
     

  71. #70  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    Just a quick question: what thread was it?
    The thread from I which I deleted two posts [neither from yourself] was "Did God create Evil".

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    I posted something nasty today?
    Did you?

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time, and I think I've forgotten this before. :?
     

  72. #71  
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    Just an addition to my last post in this thread. I just found out you cannot use the ignore filter on a moderator. It lists them as being ignored, but it doesn't work.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  73. #72  
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    Can I ask if it was myself that you tried it on? - purely from interest - a yes or no will suffice..
     

  74. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Can I ask if it was myself that you tried it on? - purely from interest - a yes or no will suffice..
    I'm no longer going to mention the names of the posters I'm placing on my ignore list. What I will say is that this one hurt the most but I plan on doing what I said I would do. I will just ignore him a different way.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  75. #74  
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    I'd strongly urge you to keep out of the trash-can that's where the offensive post's end up - they may not always be accompanied by the one that flammed them though. The trash-bin is where we dump trash - insults - deads - off topics and juiciest of all the really crank threads! etc it is the least moderated area of the site in my opinion - if you are sensitive to profanity think of it as the rugby team's dressing room after a win...
     

  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina
    Just an addition to my last post in this thread. I just found out you cannot use the ignore filter on a moderator. It lists them as being ignored, but it doesn't work.

    Bettina
    Yeah, it's not supposed to work on moderators or administrators, but I was curious whether it would work. Good to know it works a-okay. Thanks!

    Mr U
     

  77. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by "Imaplanck
    I dont find swearing in the least offensive personally.
    no, i dont either, and what the hell's wrong with using swear words now and again? Sometimes its hard to express emotions in any other way.
    I see some people here are talking about children being exposed to the f word... arent children exposed to it all the time anyway? Through TV and stuff... i was listening to the radio yesterday and heard a song with the f word. Im sure children listen to the radio just as much as adults and therefore arent they already exposed to swearing anyway?
    if i ever have children i wouldnt shield them from swear words, cos they are gonna kno them anyway eventually so what does it matter...
    Yea, anyway, as long as no one offends anyone personally on the forum swearing should be allowed. And if people dont like it, well then tough.
     

  78. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybird
    ...i was listening to the radio yesterday and heard a song with the f word. Im sure children listen to the radio just as much as adults and therefore arent they already exposed to swearing anyway?
    Hi... I don't know where you come from so I can't tell if its legal or not but in my country it's illegal and the station would pay heavy fines for it. I, personally, never heard the fword on the radio. Lots of innuendos, but no fwords.
    ...if i ever have children i wouldnt shield them from swear words, cos they are gonna kno them anyway eventually so what does it matter...
    As a parent, you have the right to instill in your children, the kind of character you think they should have. Thats the only difference I can think of.
    Yea, anyway, as long as no one offends anyone personally on the forum swearing should be allowed. And if people dont like it, well then tough.
    Thats the point. Some people, like me, find fwords personally offensive while others find them offensive but won't be vocal about it and the rest don't mind either way. However, no one will stop you from using them.

    Bettina
    Emotionally based life form. The Fword will get you on my ignore list.
     

  79. #78  
    Forum Ph.D. Nevyn's Avatar
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    Right, this is it. Will someone tell me what is WRONG with the said words. I cannot see anything wrong with them other than a long time ago someone decided that they were bad without any actual basis. I havent come up with an answer, can you?
    Come see some of my art work at http://nevyn-pendragon.deviantart.com/
     

  80. #79  
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    There is nothing wrong with swearing in/on this forum provided that,

    It is the exception and not the rule, and that it is not directed at a person but a post.

    THe poll suggests an almost balanced view of allowing some swearing.

    The rules are clear, moderation yes excess no. You are here to debate science, not test the moderators.

    The toleration or otherwise of swearing is a personal option, it does not reflect one person's superiority or inferiority over another.
     

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