Notices
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Target Audience

  1. #1 Target Audience 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    I dont often post on this site, I do however spend a lot of time reading through the subforums, picking up bits of information and hopefully learning a little.

    Recently, Ive noticed a lot of slating going on between members; and some Mod's writing their views in a sort of superior way. As if to say "your idea/question is stupid, therefore you are stupid". Just because some people have a smaller understanding of some issues, doesn't mean that they should feel unwelcome; or does it?

    My question is simple, is this forum designed for all levels of knowledge, or ideally would the Mod's like only PHD's and professors to post?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Although it is risky, would you consider giving an example of what you are talking about?

    I am often strongly critical, dismissive and derogatory of certain posters. I do this because of their ignorance, but not their ignorance alone, rather their willful ignorance.

    We are all ignorant of most things. That is the normal state of affairs. What I object to passionately, vehemently and vocally are those who make no effort to inform themselves and remove that ignorance. I speak of those who adopt opinions with little or no basis and refuse to consider any observations that disprove those opinions. These same people then attack others for 'not having an open mind'.

    The forum is not, as I understand it, designed for people like that.

    In contrast there are those who come here with incredibly simple questions (some would call them stupid), but who have a genuine desire to learn. I - and many others - will go out of their way to explain things to them, and to do so repeatedly if they don't grasp the idea at first. The forum is, as I understand it, very much designed for people and dialogues like that.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    I think I see your point, what youre saying is that some members are so stone walled in the opinions/beliefs (no matter how stupid they might be) that they are unwilling to listen to opposing ideas, even if facts are put in front of them.

    So people like me should'nt be worried about posting questions, so long as they are able to accept the responses that are given to them.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoogy
    I think I see your point, what youre saying is that some members are so stone walled in the opinions/beliefs (no matter how stupid they might be) that they are unwilling to listen to opposing ideas, even if facts are put in front of them.

    So people like me should'nt be worried about posting questions, so long as they are able to accept the responses that are given to them.
    Acceptance of the responses isn't even the issue. Acknowledgement of their relevance or some sign of a genuine desire to understand is more important. You don't have to agree, if you're genuinely not convinced. The problem is that so many people with limited knowledge fall in love with their ideas and refuse to let them go.

    Of course, if you've just got questions then that's not going to be a problem! Mind you we've also had some users who we've come to realise are asking questions as a roundabout way of pushing their preconceptions, but that's quite rare.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    I think much of this stems from just how humble the poster is when they post. When someone posts a comment that is clearly incorrect based on all known knowledge on the topic and is not subjective then I think they get hit with the opposing forces of knowledge pretty hard. If on the other hand they make the same post but with a more humble attitude they are often corrected in a polite way by those with greater knowledge.

    We should avoid however making any posts that are given as fact when they are in fact subjective or in other words just opinion. I often find we have posters who for whatever reason want to post ideas as facts or just want to get a rise out of everyone else by posting ideas that they know are going to irk other members.

    Some people just don't deal well with stupid people who are not willing to learn. This doesn't make either party right or wrong, they just are who they are.

    I to would like to see some examples. We certainly don't want to be called the "snob forum".
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoogy
    I think I see your point, what youre saying is that some members are so stone walled in the opinions/beliefs (no matter how stupid they might be) that they are unwilling to listen to opposing ideas, even if facts are put in front of them.

    So people like me should'nt be worried about posting questions, so long as they are able to accept the responses that are given to them.
    You don't even have to accept the responses outright (without rechecking with other sources and/or multiple members). Just accept that you might be wrong, engage in conversation with a genuine interest in learning something, behave yourself (nothing too strict, just normal social standards) and you will have a great time here.

    While most of the mods are scientists themselves, some of us are simply interested laymen. Our primary job is to keep order and the topics in their correct subforums, not to be the source of the only valid information. The rest is up to you guys.

    I can already see that you are a reasonable guy/gal and so you have nothing to worry about. I sincerely hope you enjoy your time here. :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    Having re-read my original post I feel I have picked out Mod's as the problem, I didnt mean that, so sorry. I feel it is a general thing that is happening and in no way just the Mod's that I have seen writing in a superior way.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoogy
    Having re-read my original post I feel I have picked out Mod's as the problem, I didnt mean that, so sorry. I feel it is a general thing that is happening and in no way just the Mod's that I have seen writing in a superior way.
    Don't worry about it. :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I am often strongly critical, dismissive and derogatory of certain posters. I do this because of their ignorance, but not their ignorance alone, rather their willful ignorance.

    We are all ignorant of most things. That is the normal state of affairs. What I object to passionately, vehemently and vocally are those who make no effort to inform themselves and remove that ignorance.
    Very well said. QFT. In my estimation, it's more about when that ignorance is coupled with indignation, certainty, and arrogance that the tone of the response changes from one of "how can we help each other to learn" to "you are a fool and a total waste of bandwidth."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoogy
    Having re-read my original post I feel I have picked out Mod's as the problem, I didnt mean that, so sorry. I feel it is a general thing that is happening and in no way just the Mod's that I have seen writing in a superior way.
    Snoogy; Moderators are usually chose/picked for their superiority in a particular field and accept the JOB (can be difficult) on a voluntary basis. Having said that and totally understanding your question, this Forum, IMO shows far less of that problem, than most any of the forums, I've posted on.

    Here and elsewhere, I've found those that do the best jobs are also involved with the discussion, know how to lead a conversation, bringing out the best in a poster and show in some manner a concern for the question or comments being made. Some are just better than others, at this.

    It would be more interesting to me, why you do not participate yourself more often? Was it a bad start with some poster/moderator or your interest are not addressed on this type forum?

    Very well said. QFT. In my estimation, it's more about when that ignorance is coupled with indignation, certainty, and arrogance that the tone of the response changes from one of "how can we help each other to learn" to "you are a fool and a total waste of bandwidth."
    inow; That's a judgment call based on your opinion, in my opinion. As we have discussed, well lets see, maybe 100 times, most people bother to register for any number of reasons, often for the first time. There is a difference in face to face verbal conversation and written discussion with total strangers. What their first comments are, is not likely to be a reflection of that persons intelligence, experiences or outlook on any particular subject/issue. As for bandwidth waste, that person is also taking time and energy to post, which to him/her is just as important. You have had the experience for years and more post than most, tend to assume others, especially those new on a forum are at the same level for this style of (usually) debate and it's just not going to happen.

    My problem with you, is with all that experience and a reasonable intelligence level, on many topics/issues, you could be such an asset to any forum, yet stray off into some unexplainable world, from time to time. Take this any way you want, but it's intended to be complimentary and have noted participation on various forums, where you enter or LEAVE that forum...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,500
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    My problem with you, is with all that experience and a reasonable intelligence level, on many topics/issues, you could be such an asset to any forum, yet stray off into some unexplainable world, from time to time.
    Thanks, Jackson. I'm a rather forceful personality, and have strong opinions on certain topics, but at the end of the day, I truly wish to help people learn while also learning from them. I may sometimes be less civil than people would ultimately prefer, but after all I am still human and have both good and bad days. One thing I have in my favor, however, is that I am ALWAYS willing to clarify or articulate my position in different ways if requested. As you have noted previously (again, thank you), I am not inarticulate, and my desire is to help. It's only after the individual continues to express "willful ignorance" ... even in the face of strong evidence showing the weaknesses of their position... that my tone toward them ultimately changes and my patience grows thin.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    92
    I think mods like to write in a superiour way as a method of defending their own ignorance, someoen who realy knew his stuff would not do this, but a weaker person not so sure of himself or his subject does this to cover for his lack of undertanding when he can't explain something and just trys to blind you with jargon or point you to amother unhelpful web page.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,569
    Quote Originally Posted by smokey
    I think mods like to write in a superiour way as a method of defending their own ignorance, someoen who realy knew his stuff would not do this, but a weaker person not so sure of himself or his subject does this to cover for his lack of undertanding when he can't explain something and just trys to blind you with jargon or point you to amother unhelpful web page.
    Is this a problem you have experienced here?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by smokey
    I think mods like to write in a superiour way as a method of defending their own ignorance, someoen who realy knew his stuff would not do this, but a weaker person not so sure of himself or his subject does this to cover for his lack of undertanding when he can't explain something and just trys to blind you with jargon or point you to amother unhelpful web page.
    I do not recall seeing any of the current mods ever indulge in such behaviour at any time over the last year. Indeed they are typically very constrained in expressing views outside of their specialties or areas of interest. Can you give an example of what you are talking about, or were you thinking of forums in general?
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •