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Thread: was there ever meant to be a messiah

  1. #1 was there ever meant to be a messiah 
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    When Moses left Egypt, did he ever think a Messiah had to come for his own people?

    (is this like some type of continuation of an Egyptian curse?)


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  3. #2 Re: was there ever meant to be a messiah 
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    When Moses left Egypt, did he ever think a Messiah had to come for his own people?

    (is this like some type of continuation of an Egyptian curse?)
    Moses is a myth.


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  4. #3  
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    Yes.

    So, he was wrong(?).

    He had no idea what he was leaving behind(?).
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  5. #4 Re: was there ever meant to be a messiah 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    When Moses left Egypt, did he ever think a Messiah had to come for his own people?

    (is this like some type of continuation of an Egyptian curse?)
    Moses is a myth.
    I think he is speaking in a biblical sense rather than an athiest sense, as you are.
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    Hmmmm. (Q) seems to have changed his tune. On another thread, he was suggesting that the idea of a Messiah was copied from Horus of ancient Egypt, a concept which could only have been fomented in some way though the knowledge that the children of Israel brought with them and which was recorded by Moses.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    Yes.

    So, he was wrong(?).

    He had no idea what he was leaving behind(?).


    If I can quote myself, I am not suggesting that Moses was wrong, not in the slightest. My intention was to find out if anyone was willing to agree or disagree. I in fact think that Judaism holds the purpose of representing a way to highlight the struggle between an ultimate source of wisdom and a people. Basically, Judaism highlights the extreme difficulty of understanding an ultimate intelligence, and there is nothing wrong or incorrect with things that serve as a test of difficulty.

    The reason why the Jewish people needed a Messiah to ultimately set them free, as though in appearance Moses did not achieve any success for his people, was to highlight the idea of intellectual freedom, and the path that represents, the lessons, through generations. Yet, once again, a very challenging and arduous path, for the purpose of creating and upholding a type of field of extreme difficulty.

    The reason why I raised this subject was to engage people in a discussion about any conceptions or misconceptions about the idea of a Messiah, freedom, and of course why things are made difficult for us, and how.......and what link any of this has to maybe science, mathematics, and our question for the ultimate answers.

    Now, if Moses "was" wrong, and I am not saying he was, but if there was something illogical about his leaving Egypt, as the then Priest of Egypt, he would almost have to create a path for an ultimate return to an ancient Egyptian vision, which wpould take , as it appears today, millennia. He would though, in not being wrong, and this is why he wasn't wrong, he would have to create a type of full circle by heading in the direction away from Egypt to return once again by not going back, but by moving forward, to have humanity return to that previous ultimate, ancient Egypt and that wisdom......but by not contradicting the path he had chosen. So, no he wasn't wrong.

    Basically, I agreed with Q in that if Moses made himself out to be a myth, he would have been wrong. Moses was no myth. He was the antithesis to mythology. Everything he did and represented walked away from mythology. He was no myth. Now, I also think that Christ, the concept of a Messiah, holds the key, ultimately, to understanding the "ultimate". In terms of science, I think the same applies, namely understanding the logic of Judaism and christianity holds the key to understanding the ultimate code, mathematical and scientific, of space-time. What I think is not important though, its what we can agree on that works. But, in adding to what I think, the idea of Christ represented I believe intellectual freedom, freedom of the mind. I think that Moses, in being the Priest of Egypt, thought everyone was enslaved by Egypt in an intellectual sense, that they were mind-controlled, and that the ultimate freedom of people had to be found through a belief system that made everyone intellectually free. Hence, a Messiah that would represent the intellectual freedom of people, something that Christ completely represented, namely offering complete intellectual freedom to people, even to the point of seeing contradictory to Judaic wisdom. For, he had to achieve the ultimate freedom in not making Judaism a form of mind-control, and that meant seeming to contradict Judaism. And in saying that, Jesus was no myth, he was the Messiah of the Jews, because he capped off Judaism as a faith that represented no mind-control whatsoever. I think for Judaism to be real about not being a force of mind-control, as Moses wished, they need someone like Jesus to be their savior, to have all the ability as the one with mind control to only then return it to people as per the offering to the people Christ made. The way we then regard Jesus is how he was able to make Judaism the faith that did not imprison people, intellectually, and so Christianity, different to Judaism represents how Judaism can represent an alternative to itself. Hence, christianity and judaism, all for the purpose of achieving a scheme of non-mind control. And that is merely an assessment through the idea of thinking what Moses would have perceived as slavery, as the Priest of Egypt, namely mind-control.

    So, thus far with this logic, we have two essential faiths central to non-mind control, and from those two faiths can grow a diversity of things, ways of being intellectually-free.....even a third faith. One merely needs to look at what the cause and effect were of the situation. The cause, it would seem, was the idea of a people being mind-controlled by the then Egyptian Gods, which suggests to me what in fact was going on, namely the social "programming" of a new breed of life. But, once the "new breed" were sufficently developed, they needed to become intellectually free. And now my idea on "aliens". If there are aliens they would make it their POLICY not to show themselves to us, because in showing themselves to us, they would be revealing a science to us that we wouyld take from them as opposed to learning it for ourselves, being free, authoring it ourselves. Yes, indeed, there could be aliens, but their policy, if they indeed have been a part of this planet for 1000's of years, would be encouraging us to work science out on our own, and not have it handed to us on their plate. The idea of God clearly, to us, would be the provider of our uniqueness and freedom to be able to understand the variety and complexity of space-time. So, when that great theory explaining space-time is found, it won't come from aliens, it would have come from the mind of someone who at least understands their own ability to think indepedently, to think in a complex manner, and to think in a way that embraces the variety of mechanisms space-time operates by. It's not something we should run from or be paranoid about. There is no reason why religion and science cannot work together. As for the search for the sup of Christ's blood, he gave it for a reason, not necessarily to contradict himself. Yet, of course, in being a faith that sets people free, to search for the return of christ is a logical concept, as though nothing was nothing achieved, because the faith demanded a type of non-mind-control, as though nothing had happened or had been achieved. Will the author of the ulitmate work of the meaning of space-time be considered as a type of Messiah then? That's a question. Would it be absurd to suggest the creation of an Egyptian God as that returned Christ; a Horus, an Isis? Because in doing that we would have something "very old" and "advanced" that is no longer mind-controlling us. That way we could better understand history and the future. We would also be assured that this person, this ultimate, would not mind-control us with the ultimate wisdom of space-time. We would also be certain of not cultivating any new faiths. We could live as Gods with what we have without any weird belief systems cropping up. That's not such a bad thing.

    I guess then I am not a big believer in religious wars.
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