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Thread: Genesis 1 & 2 - Biblical and Scientific Perspective

  1. #1 Genesis 1 & 2 - Biblical and Scientific Perspective 
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    Here's how I look at it....

    In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

    This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

    God Bless


    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Stars and Planets as we know today, didn't just appear just like that at their current position, otherwise, everything will not be in motion, just a stand still. As observed, everything is moving, everything is pulling and everything is in motion.

    By looking at the spiral generated by stirring up hot coffee with milk, we can see that when the milk spiral is small, it turns faster, and when the milk spiral gets bigger, it gets slower and slower and the spiral spreads out to the brim and scatters. By applying this effect to our Solar system, we get a similar effect, but planets have masses, magnetic fields, and centripetal forces.

    Simulation:

    By setting up a model, we can make an observation. The model is made up of ball magnets of different sizes and strengths to represent the planets and the Sun, being the strongest magnet. They are placed in a circular case and with dividers acting as orbits. The air is then pumped out. When it is spun, centripetal forces takes effect. It is observed that the stronger magnets tends to pull other lesser strength magnets and slows them down. When the spin slows down, all attracts each other and makes a straight line. Furthermore, it is observed that the magnets vibrates upon making a straight line. Applying this model to our solar system, by this time, as shown by the milk spiral, the time that the balls go slower, the spiral gets bigger and further from the center. Looking at our Solar system, the planets will move away from the Sun and there will be a full occultation of the planets made by the straight line. Jupiter will cover all the outer planets, Mars will cover Jupiter and on the other side, a solar eclipse and the moon will cover Venus and Venus will cover Mercury. Everything at this point will be in total darkness.

    This we see, is the end of our Solar System. If there is an end, there is a beginning. As explained, there is a super dense core at the beginning of our universe. It spirally exploded and the stars and the planets was born. As explained by Genesis, there were 6 days of creation and today is still the 6th day. God rested on the 7th day. Initial stages of creation were extremely explosive, as written:

    Genesis 1

    1 First - God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.

    God first created the materials needed to make the heaven and earth -- Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma, etc.

    3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

    The brightness of the glory of the Lord (Son) caused the interaction of these elements or matters that were fused together and the super dense core exploded resulting to what we now called as the “Big Bang”. It’s more like Nuclear fusion. Remember, this super dense core was extremely massive, therefore has extreme gravity force, many times stronger than the black hole. With this force, explosion can never go straight but follows a spiral elliptical path. And, the Polarize Vacuum charge at this moment will be at 0.00000000000000000001 or even less. Light at this time could have been traveling at a much faster pace because it needs to escape the immense gravity at the core. It could be traveling at a million times more than today.

    4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

    At this stage, the Earth is now beginning to form and spin as it collected solid debris from the explosion. As it formed and grew in mass, earth gravity was born. At this stage day and night appeared. But, the Earth was still formless, not spherical in shape as we know today. It will look like a half eaten apple.


    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Albert Einstein, when asked his worse mistake, said that it was assuming that there was another force, besides Gravity, which could explain the Galaxies movements. Today, Scientists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed. These arrogant scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake. They claim that there must be some Undetected, Undiscovered, Mysterious force which is causing the Galaxies to move apart at increasing Speed.

    The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the "Star Dust". The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

    At the end of the present 6th Day, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the ignorant assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of ignorance. Scientists could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would read Scripture.

    Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, v25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. v26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    It occurs to me that just as we have a forum for pseudoscience we may need one for pseudoreligion.
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  7. #6  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    ... we may need one for pseudoreligion.
    it's called fundamentalism
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    We're making progress.

    Now to address the original post:

    God is King of everything. He knows everything. He can make one small ball of energy turn into everything that is today from 50 billion years ago knowing what will be.

    With the amount of possibilites beyond this, and there are almost an infinite number of explanations to God and how He created everything. Far too many and they get illogical. Mine is the logical one; that He knew how to make the events unfold as they are today (for whatever reason), and knew why He did it.

    We don't know and never will understand it because we are not God. After all, if God did not want us to call the elements you call, hydrogen, and oxygen, gold, plutonium, mercury etc, then He would not have let us (by the assumption that if He doesn't want anything then He can stop it).

    This world one day will end, both biblical and scientific.

    Don't get angst from the fact that some people on this forum can seem close minded, or confused in relation to your understanding, because thats what a lot of scientific people lack, and that is understanding. They have knowledge but don't understand some of the more less real aspects of this world. They are very physical. But don't get upset at that, in the eyes of God you understand that more than they do, therefore they are the students, and therefore you must teach. And a teacher is required to be able to understand the opinion of the student. If they choose not to listen, that is their freedom to do so, we cannot do anything. So let it be if that is so.

    What riles me is when they are compleley immovable, even to compromise. But remember that those huge boulders were moved from Wales to Stonehenge. Either by man power or supernatural power :-D.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    It occurs to me that just as we have a forum for pseudoscience we may need one for pseudoreligion.
    LOL oooooooo, be nice

    Religion is very subjective and can be difficult to communicate. It can indeed sound like a trip on peyote - since after all that could be an actual example of religion. The religious person is often trying to describe something for which words are inadequate. The zen master will speak in obvious contradictions to push the mind outside the limits of rationality. It is sometimes said that is often a very fine line between the prophet and the madman.



    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    it's called fundamentalism
    No it is not. "pseudo" means false. Perhaps you think all relgion is false but that won't make any sense of the term "pseudo-religion" which must presume that there is a thing called religion and that there are other things which just pretend to be a religion. An inaccurate labeling here will just cast a shadow on the meaning of pseudo-science, which I don't think you want to do, if you want to make it clear that ID is an example of pseudo-science.

    Fundamentalism for all its indulgence in the pseudoscience of ID, is not a pretense when it comes to religion. Hard headed religion, certainly. Blind religion, probably. Stupid religion, maybe. But not false religion. It is an authentic religious reaction to trends which marginalize the central and founding truths of a religion. As practiced it can be hypocritical, self-righteous and laden with cultural prejudices, but these flaws are only tendencies due to the failings of humans and not inherent in what drives fundamentalism.

    No if we are to make sense of the term pseudo-religion, then the only thing that I can think of which might fit the obvious meaning of this term is something like Scientology. It is hard to make this term stick, however, because unlike science which is defined by a definite methodology religion is defined more by belief. Thus while the fact that one sincerely believes ID to be a science is irrelevant to the question of wheter ID is truly a science, whether one truly believes in something has everything to do with whether that something is really a religion. We might think that Scientology was perpetrated as a fraud to make money, but some adherent may believe otherwise and to them at least it may be considered a religion.

    Religions make their own rules and answer questions which they themselves ask, and this makes the question of discerning what is a religion hard to do in any objective manner. Thus it would seem that anything can be a religion. In fact the way Chrstianity tends to define idolatry, is it not defining anything that one obsessses over - a religion?
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    it's called fundamentalism
    No it is not. "pseudo" means false. Perhaps you think all relgion is false but that won't make any sense of the term "pseudo-religion" which must presume that there is a thing called religion and that there are other things which just pretend to be a religion.
    what i was referring to is that imo fundamentalism is a perversion of religion and as such pseudo, in the sense of not being the real thing
    on the other hand, i could have been less polite and stated that Hiramabbi's drivel belongs in the loonie bin
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. I feel at times that I'm the only one that is willing to listen to people.
    But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Now, when we talk about Almighty and All powerful, let's put that into an equation, using Einstein formula, we have:

    E=mc2
    c = Speed of light = 300,000,000 meters per second, where Polarized Vacuum = 1 (our solar system constant)
    m = A Single proton in an atom has a mass of = 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 672 kg

    Let p = PV
    1 Kilogram of water , the mass of extracted pure hydrogen = 0.111kg or 111grams.
    So, E=mc2/p
    =0.111 x 300,000,000 x 300,000,000 / 1
    = 10,000,000,000,000,000 Joules

    1 Joule is about the energy when you drop a book to the floor. That's 1 Joule.

    The amount of energy 30grams of hydrogen = burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline! Covert that to 111grams of Hydrogen in 1 Kg of water. Woooahhh...

    Now, if PV=<1, let us take the value of 0.5. E=mc2/0.5
    10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.5 = 20,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES !!!

    Now, if PV=0.01, E=mc2/0.01
    10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.01 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES !!!!!

    Now, last one, if PV=0.00000000001, E=mc2 / 0.00000000001
    10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.00000000001 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES!!!!!!

    So, the lower the charged Polarized vacuum, the higher the energy. The value at that is mind boggling! A being with that kind of power, just the breath or even the presence is enough to destroy the whole universe billion times over!!!

    Now, that's ALL POWERFUL! ALL MIGHTY GOD!

    By just looking at that number, one will feel so small, insignificant dot of creation. One will feel so humble, so fearful.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish.
    i thought the whole point of a forum was that you discuss your respective points of view - Hiramabbi goes way beyond being radical or trollish into solipsism, as he's only interested in spouting his rants and dismisses any replies as irrelevant
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    I think you've misunderstood something. The values which you are quoting is the energy of matter. It might be difficult to comprehend but you cannot extract that energy unless you can manipulate antimatter to some usable extent.

    1 joule is the amount of energy by a force of one newton moving one meter along the direction of the force. Nothing to do with books.


    You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. I feel at times that I'm the only one that is willing to listen to people.
    But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks.
    I have no problem listening to people just so long as they conform to science which is the driving force of the modern world.

    Although my views are fundamentally different to Mitchell's I will always listen to what he has to say due to this very fact, i.e. that he acknowledges science as is willing to learn more about it instead of the blind dogma portrayed by Hiramabbi.

    With respect to Svwillmer, one could spend their entire life listening to these crackpots but it would serve no purpose. One has to have a predetermined system of disregarding the trash or so to say...


    Barry
    Thinking of the question is greater than knowing the answer...
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish.
    i thought the whole point of a forum was that you discuss your respective points of view - Hiramabbi goes way beyond being radical or trollish into solipsism, as he's only interested in spouting his rants and dismisses any replies as irrelevant
    On the contrary, YOU MUST BE DREAMING. I don't see any rebuttal from you on this thread except your ad hominem attacking the poster rather than dealing with the issue I brought forth.

    Now, which is it that you don't understand as far as the Biblical perpective of Genesis is concerned? Either debate or run but don't you project your owm weaknesses on me.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    I think you've misunderstood something. The values which you are quoting is the energy of matter. It might be difficult to comprehend but you cannot extract that energy unless you can manipulate antimatter to some usable extent.

    1 joule is the amount of energy by a force of one newton moving one meter along the direction of the force. Nothing to do with books. Barry
    Here's the whole context of the quote...

    "1 Joule is about the energy when you drop a book to the floor. That's 1 Joule."

    I agree, it is a unit of energy equal to the work done by a force of one newton acting through a distance of one meter.

    Thanks
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    OP continuation:

    Genesis1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. v7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. v8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    As the formless Earth spun like an asteroid, it collected gases and extreme pressure was created. So much so that the gases turned into liquid and water was formed. Lower pressure gas, our atmosphere at different altitudes and higher pressure turned water, our seas, at different depths. Just the right balance.

    v9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. v10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    At this time as the formless Earth Spun, it started to have a spherical shape and the land mass began to move and stretch due to the massive centripetal force acting on the Earth. And dry land appeared and water was called the seas.

    "These are the generations of heavens and of the earth when they were created (by the Father), in the day when the Lord God (Son) made the earth and the heavens. v5 And every plant of the field it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and it was not man to fill the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:4-7

    11 And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth." And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. v9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:8~9

    This was the 3rd day of creation.

    Notice: Man was physically made on the 3rd day, Gen. 2:7? If Adam had not been made on the 3rd Day, then he would have not been present to name the animals, from the ground, which Jesus made at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen. 2:18-20. Both Adam & Eve were created in spiritually in the image and likeness of God on the 6th day.

    Not all creationists are the same.

    To be continued.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Continuation:

    Genesis 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day

    Now, at this time, matters that was sprung forth during the explosion, finally reached it's final position in the universe and formed mini explosions by their own. Light from the stars and galaxies has reached planet Earth on the fourth day. Now, we can conclude light was traveling much much faster at it's primal stage.

    To have all of these, extreme forces are needed. At this stage, the Earth could be orbitting the Sun at extreme velocity as it was still in the initial stage of the explosion. No living thing could survive yet.

    With regards to time, at the initial stages, the Earth could have been orbiting the Sun at a mind blowing pace. It could be 1 sec per revolution as compared to todays, 365days per revolution. The Earth could be spinning 1 hour per thousands of revolution around the sun, making the Earth day longer than the Earth year several times over. This link will explain this further:

    Quote: Each sidereal day on Mercury takes 58.65 Earth days; it takes Mercury 58.65 days (2/3's of its year) to rotate around its axis once. One day on Mercury seems to last two Mercurian years (or 176 Earth days), i.e., sunrise to sunrise. It is daytime for one Mercurian year, and nighttime for one Mercurian year.

    If I was present at that time, I could be around a couple of billion years old if measured according to our current year length. The problem with our time measurement today is that, we measure it by the Earth's orbit around the Sun and the current Earth speed. One has to ponder, did it really stayed constant? Was it really at a constant 365 days length?

    What if there's no Sun and no light? How are we able to measure time or even perceive it? Even if we have a carbon dating machine, it only measures half-life, Half life in terms of what unit of time? Let's put it in reverse, what if there's only light but no darkness and no Sun? It's still the same. We still need a point of origin of orbit to measure time. So, you see the predicament and with that the concept of eternity.

    To be continued
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Going back to the planet occultation:

    It is written: Bible

    Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

    Joel 2:10 The Earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

    The Bible says that the planets (stars of heaven) and constellations shall withdraw their shining and shall not give their light. The only way that this could happen is through total occultation of the planets and the constellations. Very little information is known today how gravity, magnetic forces, and other forces plays together to give an “optimum” effect of energies directed to a planet or planets to cause climate changes, core temperature, atmosphere, precessions, orbits, spins, magnetic fields, tectonic plates, and etc. As written, the Earth shall quake and the heavens shall tremble.

    There were other alignments recorded but with no adverse effects. One thing we can take note of, past alignments did not record any full occultation of the planets.

    Planetary Alignment of 5 May 2000
    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/sp...ary.alignment/
    http://wwp.greenwichstar.com/calendar/planets.htm

    Still, very little is known in Science how forces interact with each other when planets occult. As shown by the demonstration, when planets slow down, occultation is inevitable. We just don’t know when and how little changes can affect, but there are clues we can note of, like orbits and spins slowing down, aphelion distance, precessions, longer days, temperature, climate changes, tectonics, and pseudo alignments. Planet alignments should not be mistaken as Planet occultation as we can still see them aligned, even at total solar eclipse or lunar eclipse, and thus “pseudo alignment” or “False”. Total occultation only occurs when we no longer see the planets, the moon, the Sun and the constellations as well, this is a “True” alignment. As written, “for the stars and constellation shall withdraw their shining”. At this time, the universe has reached it's peak energy and will start to collapse and reverse the spiral until it is one densed core again. Scientist call this theory, "The Big Crunch". The universe is like one big rubber band. Once the stretch has reached it's peak, it falls back again to it's origin, more like bungee jumping. Initial stages, you start to fall fast, but later when you stretch the cord, you go slower and slower until you stop, and then you go in reverse. That's simply how it works.

    Studying closely, if the Earth has 6 planes of forces acting on it, and B,C,D,E,F = 0? What if only 1 plane is working?

    If 5 planes = 0, and only one plane is working, we get this configuration:

    In this configuration, we get a tug of war situation. Still, there’s not enough information on how planets interact at full occultation. However, the Bible tells us something very alarming:

    It is written: Bible

    Revelation 6:14 the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from it’s place.

    Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven will be shaken;

    Luke 21:26 men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

    At this particular event, our atmosphere will vanish like a scroll. Without an atmosphere the blue sky will start to look dark, even at daytime, clouds will dissipate, air pressure will be lowered, oxygen level will fall, extreme temperatures (heat and cold) will take effect, life on the planet will be scouring for survival. We are seeing here a powerful earthquake and volcanic activity as every mountain and island was removed from its place. The planets (stars) will fall from heaven. At Earth’s perspective, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto will seem to look bigger and bigger, as if falling towards Earth. The moon will get closer and closer to Earth for a collision course and the surface of the moon will bulge out and pull off and will shoot towards Earth forming hail. Solar Flares from the Sun will go berserk and shoot towards the planets and disrupt electrical power and radio waves from Earth.

    Radioactivity and heat will scorch the whole Planet as there will be magnetic disturbances making the Earth exposed to the sun's radiation. Total planet black out will be experienced. You will witness extreme activity of the Northern lights called the Aurora Borrealis, our sky will be covered with strange colorful lights.

    In a real time scenario, people will not notice it as this will not take place immediately, it needs time before it peaks as distances between planets are in the hundreds of millions of kilometers, it may take several days or more. As written, men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. But, when it peaks, no human or any other living thing will survive. It is a mass extinction of the whole planet Earth as well as the total destruction of the Solar System. If this full occultation is allowed to continue, the biggest planet Jupiter will pull everything, disintegrate and strip all the planets to the core as it pulls the planets towards it and all that is left is Jupiter and the Sun. Jupiter will slowly go towards the Sun, but the orbit will go faster and faster as it goes nearer towards the Sun, and during this time, both bodies will be exchanging elements until it is one whole big lump of energy. Just like the coffee spiral experiment, only this time it is in reverse and the spin goes faster as it moves towards the center. It is not known what will happen to the Sun, either it will collapse on it’s own accumulated mass or explodes. And, another new creation will form. New heavens and new Earth.

    Who will stop this mass extinction? Who is able and powerful enough to stop this total annihilation of the whole solar system?

    It is written: Bible

    Matthew 24:22 - And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

    Mark 13:20 - And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

    But, we have this good news:

    After 1,000years is finished, another new beginning will form. It looks like God slowed the destruction for 1,000 years.

    It is written: Bible

    Revelation 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

    2 Peter 3:12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    We can guess, the "Big Crunch" theory is possibly true. At the core, all the elements will melt with fervent heat. And then.....booom!!!! As written, we look for new heavens and a new Earth.

    2 Peter 3:13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    2 Peter 3:10 - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    This is not good science.
    This is not good Judaism.
    This is not good Christianity.
    This is not even good entertainment.

    I wish I lacked moral scruples and could just delete the entire heap of garbage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    This is not good science.
    This is not good Judaism.
    This is not good Christianity.
    This is not even good entertainment.

    I wish I lacked moral scruples and could just delete the entire heap of garbage.
    lol lol

    Only Evols dream up false science. True Science is supported by factual evidence, and Not dreamed up by some man, who convinces the majority of his "belief".

    It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

    Now Ophiolite, is there something you wish to refute? or is there something you have a question about? Just write them here and I will be glad to explain them for you. I realize that someone like you cannot understand Scripture, since it is foolishness to you. I would be happy to help.

    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    True science works through the scientific method, not through the assumption that scripture is correct. I remember providing you with an article with proof for evolution, did you at all look at it? Guess not... Well, here's another article with all the creationist claims refuted. Take a look if you dare:

    Index to Creationist Claims

    Of course, I do not expect you to look at it. With your arrogance of "the bible is right, therefore I am right", the only thing I expect is you to ignore the truth and hold on to your delusions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    True science works through the scientific method, not through the assumption that scripture is correct. I remember providing you with an article with proof for evolution, did you at all look at it? Guess not... Well, here's another article with all the creationist claims refuted. Take a look if you dare:

    Index to Creationist Claims

    Of course, I do not expect you to look at it. With your arrogance of "the bible is right, therefore I am right", the only thing I expect is you to ignore the truth and hold on to your delusions.
    Well, so far you continue to fail to articulate your cited links in your own words. So, how would you expect me to know whether you have enough capacity to understand whatever rebuttal I will give you?

    Also, btw, you are off the topic on this thread. You can state your allege evidences on the other thread. And I promise, I will expose your pretention and make knowledge foolish.

    Dare me again?
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Sissy.
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    A light-year is a unit of distance It is the distance that light can travel in one year. Light moves at a velocity of about 300,000 kilometers (km) each second. So in one year, it can travel about 10 trillion km. More precisely, one light-year is equal to 9,500,000,000,000 kilometers. By that, we can measure the age of our universe, more or less.

    A light year is measured relative to our Earth year, which is 365 days units. Our universe is at least 9.5 billion years old. How many days in one year? Relative to what planet and to what galaxy?

    Here's another predicament. What if there is no light? Can you measure time? Light travels differently on different mediums. 100% speed of light can only apply in a vacuum. Note I use 100%, not in terms of m/s.

    Quote: Although the speed of light in a vacuum is constant, light slows down when travelling through a medium. This doesn't make much difference when it is travelling through air, but it does make a difference in many other media. For example, light going through glass slows down to two-thirds its speed in a vacuum.

    Before using light as a means of measuring time unit, one needs to ponder whether they are other particles that can travel faster than light. For example, the tachyons.

    Quote: Tachyons are a putative class of particles which able to travel faster than the speed of light. Tachyons were first proposed by physicist Arnold Sommerfeld, and named by Gerald Feinberg. The word tachyon derives from the Greek (tachus), meaning "speedy." Tachyons have the strange properties that, when they lose energy, they gain speed. Consequently, when tachyons gain energy, they slow down. The slowest speed possible for tachyons is the speed of light.

    Tachyon -- from Eric Weisstein's World of Physics

    Quote: Tachyons appear to violate causality (the so-called causality problem), since they could be sent to the past under the assumption that the principle of special relativity is a true law of nature, thus generating a real unavoidable time paradox (Maiorino and Rodrigues 1999). Therefore, it seems unavoidable that if tachyons exist, the principle of special relativity must be false, and there exists a unique time order for all observers in the universe independent of their state of motion.

    Things will get really vague at this point. Which time unit do we follow? The tachyons, or the photons? We'll just be better off measuring time relative to our solar system for now. Otherwise, E=mc2 will become, E=mt2. :P So far so good for Einstein.

    I theorize that there could be another galaxy who's PV (Polarized Vacuum) is lesser than 1. Our solar system PV is 1. If a biological life form from a galaxy whose PV=<1, then when it travels to our solar system, it observes our solar system to be moving very slow relative to his vacuum of space. To an observer on Earth, his spaceship will appear to be zipping very fast undetectable, even invisible. Now, if a being who's PV=0, then it's infinite. What I call, omnipresent. Everywhere, Anywhere, Anytime, and invisible. We can't detect anything less than 1 of PV.

    That's the concept of eternity.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    A tachyon is a hypothetical particle which goes into string theory and such... BTW. Ever heard of the Feinberg Reinterpretation Principle?

    Let me quote as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    The property of causality is a fundamental principle of theoretical particle physics; tachyons, if they existed, would not violate causality, even if they interacted with ordinary (time-like) matter[3]. Causality would be violated if a particle could send information into its own past, forming a so-called causal loop, leading to logical paradoxes such as the grandfather paradox. Tachyons are prevented from violating causality by the Feinberg reinterpretation principle[3] which states that a negative-energy tachyon sent back in time in an attempt to violate causality can always be reinterpreted as a positive-energy tachyon travelling forward in time. This is because observers cannot distinguish between the emission and absorption of tachyons. For a tachyon there is no distinction between the processes of emission and absorption, since there always exists a sub-light velocity reference frame shift that alters the temporal direction of the tachyon's world-line, which is not true for bradyons or photons. The attempt to detect a tachyon from the future (and violate causality) actually creates the same tachyon and sends it forward in time (which is causal). A tachyon detector will seem to register tachyons in every possible detection model; in reality the tachyon "detector" is spontaneously emitting tachyons. The effect of the reinterpretation principle on any tachyon "detector" is that any incoming tachyonic message would be lost against the tachyon background noise, which is an inevitable accompaniment of the uncontrollable emission. The counter intuitive conclusion is that tachyons (if they existed) could be used to transmit energy-momentum, but they can't be used for communication. Thus there is no need to fall back on some quantum field theory form of the Novikov self-consistency principle to preserve causality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon..._and_causality
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks.
    So what you are saying is that the British have a right to their petty little bigotries and ignorance and us Yanks can keep all our preachin about religious tolerance and reason to ourselves?
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    I agree, both theories is yet to be proven. That's why I did not get into it that much more than what's needed in my presentation of the topic. That's is also why I went back measuring time relative to our solar system - for now

    So, long as I get the message accross about the concept of eterinity, relative to our standard time, then, I am satisfied.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Are there caves there in Wales that neanderthals are still coming out of?
    ahem - have you ever been in Cardiff on a friday night ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    ahem - have you ever been in Cardiff on a friday night ?
    No I haven't had the privelidge of visiting Wales at all, or any of Great Britain, or any of Western Europe for that matter. The closest I got was Latvia. Most of my out of country excursions have been to Japan (my wife is Japanese). Considering how little money I make, I may never see see these places. I shall have to settle for getting to know some of their more interesting people on the internet.

    My knowledge of Wales is mostly limited to Susan Cooper's books which I have reread recently.




    P.S. I removed the quoted remark from my post since I obviously goofed and missed the mark. Somehow a substitution of England for Wales doesn't work as well for this little quip.

    P.P.S. I haven't been reading Hiramabbi's stuff in this thread. Just looking is enough to suggest that reading it might give me a headache. If this was in the physics section I wouldn't be as nice if I even bothered to post in the thread at all.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks.
    So what you are saying is that the British have a right to their petty little bigotries and ignorance and us Yanks can keep all our preachin about religious tolerance and reason to ourselves?
    From how close minded and ignorant you and most Americans I talk to are, I'm afraid I have stereotyped you all. Apologies to those who are not the sterotypical yank.

    Yes keep it to yourself, maybe if you do I will too. After all there are no cmpromises when it comes to religion so why bother in the first place?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  32. #31  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    425,

    I went back to my first post to try and understand what has you so bugged. Could it be that you are a fundamentalist? Or even worse that you don't have a clue as to why ID is a pseudo-scicence. If you are going to go tell people to shut up on that issue, you really are crocked, and in the wrong forum to boot.



    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    I'm afraid I have stereotyped you all.
    Bigotry is such a nasty habit. Don't be a stain on all that your country has to offer the world.

    Every forum has a philosophy and seeing how this is a science forum I think the philosophy of the international scientific community is the presumption here and this includes both reason and tolerance. But it is certainly in the interest of most here to be absolutely clear about what is science and what is NOT.



    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Yes keep it to yourself, maybe if you do I will too.
    No way man. Bring it on. I'd love an knock down fight with irrationality, bigotry, and ignorance.

    It is interesting that the one who was paying attention to where people are from is you. That shows who is really "close minded and ignorant". The internet is the world, dude, so if you can't handle it, maybe the rest of your countrymen can help you to grow up first.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    I see you've used words rather cunningly to stand your point and actually make a presumption of my incompetence and beliefs relative to yourself, although you will find those assumptions to be wrong. I am merley copying your responses, to see how you react. So far you are manipulating numerous encounters of our past, taking a pick at me and the UK, whilst throwing in a mix of perfectly blended words to slander me and my country. Congratulations, you've prefectly proved my opinion of the Americans.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    SV, what's eating you ? this isn't your usual amicable self
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    On NASA’s website

    October 13, 2004: According to folklore, October's full moon is called the "Hunter's Moon" or sometimes the "Blood Moon." It gets its name from hunters who tracked and killed their prey by autumn moonlight, stockpiling food for the winter ahead. You can picture them: silent figures padding through the forest, the moon overhead, pale as a corpse, its cold light betraying the creatures of the wood.

    What makes the eclipsed moon turn red? The answer lies inside Earth's shadow: Our planet casts a long shadow. It starts on the ground--Step outside at night. You're in Earth's shadow. Think about it!--and it stretches almost a million miles into space, far enough to reach the moon. Suppose you had a personal spaceship. Here's your mission: Tonight, at midnight, blast off and fly down the middle of Earth's shadow. Keep going until you're about 200,000 miles above Earth, almost to the moon. Now turn around and look down. The view from your cockpit window is Earth's night side, the dark half of our planet opposite the sun. But it's not completely dark! All around Earth's limb, the atmosphere glows red. What you're seeing is every sunrise and sunset on Earth--all at once. This ring of light shines into Earth's shadow, breaking the utter darkness you might expect to find there.

    Turn off the cockpit lights. There's a lovely red glow. White light from the Sun is a mixture of all the colors of the rainbow. When a ray of "white" sunlight passes at grazing incidence through Earth's atmosphere, molecules and aerosols in the air scatter blue light in all directions (this is why the sky is blue). The remaining reddish light is bent (refracted) into Earth's umbral shadow zone, giving the eclipsed Moon a coppery glow.

    Eclipses in the Bible:

    “Isaiah 13:10 - For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

    Joel 2:10 - The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

    Joel 3:15 – The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

    Matthew 24:29 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

    Mark 13:24 - "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,”

    It is interesting to note that the Bible knows about eclipses – Solar and Lunar.

    “Joel 2:31 - The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

    Acts 2:20 - the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day.

    Revelation 6:12 - When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood,”

    It is also interesting to note that the Bible knows about a “Red Moon Eclipse”.
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Now going to Acts 2:20, and also in a similar fashion, Joel 2:31, it is written:

    “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:”

    Let us take a closer look at this. Given from the passage:

    Sun + Moon + Earth = Solar Eclipse (The Sun shall be turned into darkness) New Moon

    Sun + Earth + Moon = Lunar Eclipse – The red type. (The Moon into blood) Full Moon

    The Bible passage above states that there will be a solar eclipse and there will be a Red Lunar Eclipse happening all at once. But, how could this be? There cannot be a Solar eclipse and a Red Lunar Eclipse happening at once. When a Solar eclipse occurs, the Sun will be totally blocked by the moon, and to produce the Red Lunar Eclipse, the Sun should be positioned at the other side of the Earth.

    So, going in this sequence, we have:

    Sun + Moon + Earth = Solar Eclipse, but the Moon = Red?? Error #1.

    Let say I understood it in a wrong way, let say it happens in sequence, first, a Solar Eclipse, and then several months later, a Red Lunar Eclipse. Now, we all know that Solar, Lunar, Red Lunar eclipses has been happening since eon, going to countless cycles. Reading the Bible passage above, one will seriously doubt. Error #2.

    Let us take another look then:

    Sun + Moon + Earth = Solar Eclipse, Let us solve for X.

    Therefore:

    Sun + Moon + Earth + X = Solar Eclipse + Red Moon

    Now, the only way a red moon (or blood moon) in this sequence could happen, is by having another extremely bright light source, behind Earth, so that the correct sequence follows:

    Sun + Moon + Earth + Extremely bright light Source = Solar Eclipse + Red Moon

    So, where could this extremely bright light comes from?

    Going to the Bible, we have:

    Matthew 17:1-2 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light

    John 1:7 - He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.

    John 8:12- Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

    Acts 9:3 - Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him.

    Acts 22:11 - And when I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus.

    Acts 26:13- At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me.

    1 Timothy 6:16- who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

    Revelation 21:23- And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God is its light and its lamp is the Lamb.

    Revelation 22:5 - And night shall be no more; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    Now, going back to Acts 2:20, and Joel 2:31:

    “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:”

    Solving for X:

    Sun + Moon + Earth + X = Solar Eclipse + Red Moon

    Therefore : X = The Lord

    Sun + Moon + Earth + Jesus Christ = Solar Eclipse + Red Moon

    Without doubt, Jesus Christ is that “Extremely Bright Light Source”
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    It is written: Revelation 1:7

    Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

    Matthew 24:30

    then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;

    As the Earth turns, every eye will see Him – The brightness of His coming. The Red "Solunar" (solar eclipse+lunar eclipse) will be a sign in heaven, which is as written, "the sign of the Son of man".

    It is written: Genesis 1

    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so

    The Day and the Night on this passage is the Sun which is the light of the day and the Moon which is the light of the night, and as written, let them be for signs.

    But, the fate of these people will be sealed:

    It is written: 2 Thessalonians 2

    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Revelation 22:12-13

    “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”

    Glory be His name! Praise the Lord! Praise God Almighty

    The fate of the wicked:

    It is written: 2 Thessalonians 2

    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Joel 2:31 - The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes.

    Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Amos 8 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: 10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

    This is the Red Solunar Event foretold.

    Amos 9—1 I saw the LORD standing beside the altar, and he said: "Smite the capitals until the thresholds shake, and shatter them on the heads of all the people; and what are left of them I will slay with the sword; not one of them shall flee away, not one of them shall escape. 2 "Though they dig into Sheol, from there shall my hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, from there I will bring them down. 3 Though they hide themselves on the top of Carmel, from there I will search out and take them; and though they hide from my sight at the bottom of the sea, there I will command the serpent, and it shall bite them. 4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, there I will command the sword, and it shall slay them; and I will set my eyes upon them for evil and not for good."

    ......though they climb up to heaven, from there I will bring them down.

    It is a terrible day indeed, who can escape? Even if one travels to space by a space craft or an airplane, the Lord will bring it down.

    ....though they hide from my sight at the bottom of the sea, there I will command the serpent, and it shall bite them.

    Even if one goes down deep in the sea in a submarine, a giant serpent will bite them. No one can escape. Men will be hiding from the Lord from His great wrath.

    Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. 18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

    The Red Moon is also called, “The Hunter’s Moon”. (Refer to NASA's website, re: Red Moon)

    THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM:
    .. AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY IS UNDERSTANDING
    .
    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    SV, what's eating you ? this isn't your usual amicable self
    I dunno. In most of my spare time I'm playing Call Of Duty 4, and unintelligent banter and slander is common, at least every other match you play. I guess the constant bickering and insults even though I ignore them are getting at me. Either that or I'm standing up for myself for once. :?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  39. #38  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
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    Hmmm. I am arguing with myself as to which pseudo-church I would wish to avoid most -- Hiramabbi's or the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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    Hmmm. I am arguing with myself as to which pseudo-church I would wish to avoid most -- Hiramabbi's or the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's.
    If he's not one of yours (theistic generalization) and he's not one of ours...? Why are they still trying?
    Thinking of the question is greater than knowing the answer...
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  41. #40  
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    The world needs crackpots to help show us the boundaries of normalcy.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Congratulations, you've prefectly proved my opinion of the Americans.
    That is indeed the typical pattern of bigotry. Your ignorance and hostility bringing out the worst in others tends to reinforce your bigotry. I feel sorry for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    I see you've used words rather cunningly to stand your point and actually make a presumption of my incompetence and beliefs relative to yourself, although you will find those assumptions to be wrong. I am merley copying your responses, to see how you react. So far you are manipulating numerous encounters of our past, taking a pick at me and the UK, whilst throwing in a mix of perfectly blended words to slander me and my country.
    You picked this fight. And now you want to blame it on me? You start saying things about Yanks and then say I'm the one taking a poke at nationalities. Doing this when what we have written is there for all to see makes you one of the biggest fools I have ever come across. The record will show that I am the one who has been throwing back at you what you have been giving. I thought you might learn from this. Apparently not. Therefore the inevitable outcome of tit-for-tat being now utterly predictable and boring, you have lost my interest.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    Yeah your right.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Yeah your right.
    Then maybe you can do me the favor of pointing out when I am wrong one of these days. Then we will see if I have ability to recognize that you are right.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Hmmm. I am arguing with myself as to which pseudo-church I would wish to avoid most -- Hiramabbi's or the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's.
    Don't worry about me, I don't belong to any church organization in this planet. Plus, I don't need a dirty laundry baggage like you. IOW, you've been rejected. Sorry.

    .....
    And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish.
    no absolutely true, else we have two thirds of the world population locked in them, wouldn't we.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Wonko the Sane did, in "So long, and thanks for all the fish" - mind you, he put the rest of the world in an asylum, not just a mere two-thirds
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  48. #47  
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    Hiramabbi said:

    I don't belong to any church organization in this planet
    That God for that! It was already becoming apparent that you are not a product of Planet Earth.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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    I'm ashamed to admit I've actually read this thread....and still have no bloody idea what the topic/question is.

    On one hand, I see a bunch of rambling-on about how some religious text fragments can be interpreted to be associated with physical aspects of the universe...and on the other hand I see smatterings of pointless calculations in an attempt to show there are great quantities of stuff in the universe...

    I also see a lot of bickering, and given the nonsensical OT, can't say I'm surprised.

    Are we (or rather, you all) actually arguing over an associative-interpretation that seemingly does nothing? What's the deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    ...I'm playing Call Of Duty 4
    CoD4 is awesome! Brilliant game. I think I've played it 4 times through by now, and I've only had it since last weekend.
    Wolf
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    An intellegent comment by Hiramabbi in another thread finally convinced by to come back and read what He wrote here. I could not find anything that was interesting to me however. I despise the effort to turn the Bible into a science textbook, for I think it turns Genesis into a farse and thus misses the message which is its real intent. I also have no real interest in eschatology.


    Hiramabbi,

    However, since you like this interpretation of Genesis 11 discussed in the other thread, lets see if you also like my interpretation of Genesis 3. A commandment is the ONLY way that a parent can bridge the gap between children who do every silly thing that pops into their head (which the parent has to continually rescue from harm) and the responsible adult that has learned to act responsibly and avoid dangers by himself. Not all commandments can be explained and not dangers can be avoided - this is the reality of parenthood. I do not believe in magical fruit which impart knowledge (let alone moral knowledge) or which give eternal life. Therefore I understand these to be symbolic of very real aspect of human life.

    The tree of life represents our relationship with God, because that is the one and only source of eternal life. The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents relationships between human beings (in this case between Adam and Eve) and thus their potential to be parents themselves where they would be in the position of authority in regards to good and evil in the raising of their own children. But of course the real source of such knowledge must be found in their relationship with God FIRST and only then would they be able to do a good job as parents.

    That Adam and Eve disobeyed this commandment not to eat of the second tree threatened the future of mankind with a tradition of immature parthood - a repeating cycle of children having children. Irresponsibility not disobedience is the essence of the fall. It is a question of whether the nature of Adam and Eve was that of children or robots. Perfect obedience is hardly a reasonable expectation in the raising of children, therefore if Adam and Eve were in any way human, the fall of man cannot be due to mere disodience, but must have to do with the nature of the commandment or in what happened afterwards.

    Thus it is my belief that the biggest problem is what happened afterwards when God confronted them. Adam said, "it was that woman you gave me", simultaneously blaiming both God and Eve. Eve replied by blaming the angel Lucifer, represented in the story by the snake. Disobedience by itself can be an opportunity for children to learn the responsiblity that a command is intended to teach in the first place. But in blaming everyone but themselves, Adam and Eve basically refused to learn this lesson. I believe that God responded by a statement of several consequences to this, which I believe was the only way that God could see to redeem the potenital of mankind to be the children of God.

    The most devastating of these consequences was that the God presence in their lives was doing more harm than good. All the power and knowledge that made God the best parent and teacher also made him the perfect scapegoat to blaim everything on. Therefore in order to preserve the potential of mankind, God had to remove Himself from such an active role in their lives to become as He had been with the rest of life on the earth, more of a manipulator behind the scenes working to prod them into realizing their greater potentialities.

    This is a part of my "theology of pluralism" for it recognizes that God is not only the source of diversity in religion but can also be found to be behind atheism as well (as ironic as that may sound). God could most certainly make His existence obvious and undeniable to all, if He so wished. Therefore it seems rather obvious to me (since I believe that God does exist of course) that if people don't see such obvious and undeniable evidence then that must be the will of God. It is His will for us to be free to choose whether to believe in Him or not and the reason for this is quite simply that a belief in God is NOT of universal benefit to everyone. In fact I think there is abundant evidence of this in psychology - that there are indeed people whose conception of God must be considered pathological (unhealthy).


    P.S. For atheists and agnostics who read this, please do not be offended. The existence of God is neccessarily and obviously going to be a presumption in any kind of theology. The purpose of this "theology of pluralism" is to help bridge the gap from theistic side to help the theist understand that atheism can be a good thing. Of course, no theology is going to represent the atheist world view in any way.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  51. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    I despise the effort to turn the Bible into a science textbook...
    Yeah, I can't agree with that either. You can interpret the Bible to be a term-lacking description for the scientific world...but it doesn't prove anything.

    I can interpret the Bible's words to show that it was a cookbook for chocolate cake. Doesn't mean it is.
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    The deleted spam message reminded me that I had intended to reply to Wolf.

    Personally I don't know anyone who is trying to use the Bible as a science text book. Many of us fail to any major discrepancies wherein the Bible may touch on some bit of scientific information. But it does so in passing, not in an attempt to reveal previously unrevealed science. Nor have I ever considered that the Bible mentions some scientific data for the purpose of confirming the science.

    But when it comes to the concept of "interpreting" the Bible, Wolf gets a little too loose. I am not certain what texts Wolf thinks provides a recipe for chocolate cake or how that would have anything to do with the spiritual meanings.

    Perhaps there are some thing which are a matter of different understandings, but for most things, the message is clear and not subject to different interpretations. Take for example the following verses:

    John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    John 8:24 “I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

    John 10:7-9 Jesus therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.”
    While one may disagree with or reject what is being said in these verses, they can hardly become the matter of differing interpretations. They are all clear, concise statements.

    While the Bible does discuss many topics and uses many types of information, that does not open the door to using a recipe for chocolate cake to demean the overall message of God's word.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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