Notices

View Poll Results: Is there a hell?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Possibly

    1 6.25%
  • Possibly Not

    1 6.25%
  • Possibly Never

    4 25.00%
  • Possibly Always

    2 12.50%
  • ...

    8 50.00%
Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Is there a hell?

  1. #1 Is there a hell? 
    Forum Freshman manadude2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    At a computer on Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy... chocolate bar.
    Posts
    41
    See Poll

    Please do not post general discussion! There is a thread for that!


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    moved to religion.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    omg, I can see all the various answers unfolding allready...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    OMG? Shouldn't that be OYG? (Oh your God)

    I'd say there'd be someplace where Satan and his buddies live, but maybe not in the way we imagine. I do know that there will be a robot hell made 2275 at least . (Futurama reference).

    Of course thats just for starters .
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    OMG? Shouldn't that be OYG? (Oh your God)
    Yeah, but omg has a better sound to it xD
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Is there a hell?

    There are many. Increasingly so, for people are creating new ones all the time. People can be quite inventive when it comes to self-torment.

    But is there a place that a god created in order to torture for an eternity any people who don't submit to the "TRUTH"? Well considering the extremity of the intellectual blackmail involved in such a proposition, doesn't it seem likely that the hell here is the one these "TRUTH" believers have created for themselves, so that only a threat of such horrific proportions could possibly make people submit to this?

    I don't know about you but psycho-god is not for me.



    To avoid confusion however, people should know that I am a Christian, just not the sort who worships a god who is into S&M.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Sophomore numb3rs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    166
    is it possable we have already lived out our original lives and this is hell?
    it would explain some relegios beleaves of alternet lifes and being rencarnated.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman dimethyltryptamine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    29
    heaven and hell are states of mind(being) that exist right here on Earth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    Even as a Christian, I do not have a strong concept of hell. I'm not sure what we (as a group) believe about heaven and hell. I mean other than that it is more desireable to end up in heaven than in hell.

    In a broad sense, I think we believe that heaven is spending eternity in the presence of God. Whether this is a "place" or just a state of being is not clear. Revelation would seem to indicate that is a locality, although I am not sure it is a place. Hell, on the other hand, is spending eternity out of the presense of God.

    About the only thing we know about hell is that it will be characterized by torment, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    A larger question is how can a "place" exist in an eternity which apparently has neither time nor space nor matter? This is an economy which I do not understand.

    I doubt I am alone in this lack of comprehension. But just because one cannot understand is not a good justification for ignoring it.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore Pikkhaud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    140
    If you were given the following ultimatum.

    Servent of heaven or Ruler of hell

    What would your awnser be.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Pikkhaud
    If you were given the following ultimatum.

    Servent of heaven or Ruler of hell

    What would your awnser be.
    As simple as that sounds, its not in Christianity. Far from it.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by dimethyltryptamine
    heaven and hell are states of mind(being) that exist right here on Earth.
    Exactly and many Christians think that reality extends beyond death into an eternal existence, the point being that there is no escape from such spitritual realities. (The use of spiritual here is not to be confused with "supernatural" which I believe is a meaningless concept that atheists simply use to describe God because they don't believe God exists).

    From the Dictionary below you can see that the majority of definition point to something quite different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Webster
    Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French, espirit, spirit, from Latin spiritus, literally, breath, from spirare to blow, breathe
    Date: 13th century
    1: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
    2: a supernatural being or essence: as acapitalized : holy spirit b: soul 2a c: an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : ghost 2 d: a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being
    3: temper or disposition of mind or outlook especially when vigorous or animated <in high spirits>
    4: the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person
    5 a: the activating or essential principle influencing a person <acted in a spirit of helpfulness> b: an inclination, impulse, or tendency of a specified kind : mood
    6 a: a special attitude or frame of mind <the money-making spirit was for a time driven back — J. A. Froude> b: the feeling, quality, or disposition characterizing something <undertaken in a spirit of fun>
    7: a lively or brisk quality in a person or a person's actions
    8: a person having a character or disposition of a specified nature
    9: a mental disposition characterized by firmness or assertiveness <denied the charge with spirit>

    10 a: distillate 1: as (1): the liquid containing ethyl alcohol and water that is distilled from an alcoholic liquid or mash —often used in plural (2): any of various volatile liquids obtained by distillation or cracking (as of petroleum, shale, or wood) —often used in plural b: a usually volatile organic solvent (as an alcohol, ester, or hydrocarbon)
    11 a: prevailing tone or tendency <spirit of the age> b: general intent or real meaning <spirit of the law>
    12: an alcoholic solution of a volatile substance <spirit of camphor>
    13: enthusiastic loyalty <school spirit>
    14capitalized Christian Science : god 1b

    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Even as a Christian, I do not have a strong concept of hell. I'm not sure what we (as a group) believe about heaven and hell. I mean other than that it is more desireable to end up in heaven than in hell.
    The same can be said of many other aspects of Christian theology. I however, have a rather clear concept of hell and the "default" state of existence after death which I believe is a reality that is rule by ones own will and thus can be called the place where dreams come true and where one finds ones heart's desire. This sound very nice and attractive, but to someone with a little more spiritual discernment this ought to evoke a feeling of horror and fear because they have some intimation of the depravity and horror that can be found in our dreams knowing that the human heart is not to be trusted.



    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    In a broad sense, I think we believe that heaven is spending eternity in the presence of God. Whether this is a "place" or just a state of being is not clear. Revelation would seem to indicate that is a locality, although I am not sure it is a place. Hell, on the other hand, is spending eternity out of the presense of God.
    This is of course quite correct, but what is harder for the non-religious to understand is why this presence of God should make such a difference and they get this image of a bunch of people standing around "adoring God" which frankly sounds too boring to contemplate. But the real reason is the God is the source of eternal life, and a consideration of what "life" means reveals that among other things "etenal life" must mean unlimited growth, infinite excitement, neverending creativity, unlimited love, infinite wonder, neverending challenges, unlimited passion, and neverending learning. But we believe that these things can only be found in a relationship with an infinite God.

    But perhaps what is more important is that when considering the previously explained idea of hell above, God is the only one who can save us from ourselves by helping us to change the direction of our hearts desire.



    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    About the only thing we know about hell is that it will be characterized by torment, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Perhaps, but this is not an image that is very helpful to most people. For example, I might choose a little torment, wailing and "gnashing of teeth", if it is for a good cause, fighting for what I believe is right.



    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    A larger question is how can a "place" exist in an eternity which apparently has neither time nor space nor matter? This is an economy which I do not understand.
    Ooooooo... the use of such a sophisticated theological term gives me chills. LOL

    Free Online Dictionary: economy = "The method of God government of and activity in the world."

    I don't think that this definition really captures the theological meaning of "economy". For I think perhaps it can be considered a synonym of "mystery" for it seems to refer to things that are known to be true but are frankly not fully understood - something that God's revelation decrees is the case and is therefore expected to be the case even though Christian comprehension of it is incomplete. At least, this is my impression of the use of this word.



    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by Pikkhaud
    If you were given the following ultimatum.

    Servent of heaven or Ruler of hell

    What would your awnser be.
    As simple as that sounds, its not in Christianity. Far from it.
    Actually CR I think you are terribly wrong. Christianity (and religion in general) is fundamentally about giving voice to spiritual truths and these are nothing like describing a plain object that is sitting in front of us. It is reaching for something that we cannot see and that our minds can only barely grasp. Therefore we say things like what Pikkhaud has said to reach out for inspiration and so to tell the truth, what Pikkhaud has said is VERY VERY Christian. I would in fact say that those who try to cut Christianity down saying what it is not, beyond the determination of a few eccumenical agreements, are the real heretics.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    Does no one else see that Pikkhaud's question was basically the offer Jesus received from Satan during his 40-days of temptation?

    It is a question that directly relates to Christianity. And it is an offer which we all face everyday. Do we serve Satan or do we serve God?
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Does no one else see that Pikkhaud's question was basically the offer Jesus received from Satan during his 40-days of temptation?

    It is a question that directly relates to Christianity. And it is an offer which we all face everyday. Do we serve Satan or do we serve God?
    If "rule" is the same as "serve"...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    If "rule" is the same as "serve"...
    Indeed it is...

    From the word of Jesus, we see that in heaven, to serve... is to rule (he who is greatest is he who serves the most).

    But Satan turns it around and and make is so that in accepting his offer to make you a ruler in this world, you become in reality his eternal slave (so to speak).
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    There are no rulers of hell, they will fall from that position. What are the 144,000 Mitch? And what do they do?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    There are no rulers of hell, they will fall from that position. What are the 144,000 Mitch? And what do they do?
    You got me on that one. I haven't the slightest idea. Nor do I really care, that being under the topic of eschatology, which I have no interest in. It is hard enough to deal with questions about what is, without worrying about what will be in the future. That is not an aspect of Chritianity that I ever found any meaning in or any use for.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Well let me educate you for a change. The 144,000 of the 12 tribes, 12,000 from each of the most righetoues will rule as Kings along side Christ in The New Jerusalem. If you don't care, why did you say I'm terribly wrong, if I'm wrong and you don't care about that, why tell me? Whats the point in telling someone their wrong but not explaining it, or having the fully viable information to proove I am wrong before saying I am. Thats not very teacher like. Not that I'm critiscisng your teaching abilites .
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    If you don't care, why did you say I'm terribly wrong, if I'm wrong and you don't care about that, why tell me?
    Because I don't see Pikkhaud's statement as having anything to do with eschatology. And you were terribly wrong, of that there is absolutely no doubt. I have no doubt that you can come up with some cult that would disagree with Pikkhaud's statement, but that is the the nature of heretical cults that they would do so - trying to cut Christianity down to something smaller - i.e. to their own little group.



    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Whats the point in telling someone their wrong but not explaining it, or having the fully viable information to proove I am wrong before saying I am. Thats not very teacher like. Not that I'm critiscisng your teaching abilites .
    I am a teacher by profession but I am not your teacher until you pay me. Furthermore, I am not a kindergarten teacher and this ain't physics, sonny.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    If you were offended by my statement then I apologise.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    If you were offended by my statement then I apologise.
    Apology accepted - not because I was offended (I'm not shy about giving as much as I get -- tit for tat) so much as I did think that what you said was a little bit over the line (which I only think reflects more on you than on me). But it really isn't about offense so much as it is about fustration. I've had students say, "you ain't teaching good", by which they mean that they aren't getting it. You say I don't explain when in fact I give a whole paragraph to do just that. But "explaining" is a pretty subjective thing, don't you see. So you not feeling that it was explained, was not for the lack of me trying to explain it. This is the everyday fustration of a teacher - and thus what I get paid to swallow. Capiche?

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Actually CR I think you are terribly wrong. Christianity (and religion in general) is fundamentally about giving voice to spiritual truths and these are nothing like describing a plain object that is sitting in front of us. It is reaching for something that we cannot see and that our minds can only barely grasp. Therefore we say things like what Pikkhaud has said to reach out for inspiration and so to tell the truth, what Pikkhaud has said is VERY VERY Christian. I would in fact say that those who try to cut Christianity down saying what it is not, beyond the determination of a few eccumenical agreements, are the real heretics.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Even as a Christian, I do not have a strong concept of hell. I'm not sure what we (as a group) believe about heaven and hell.

    I doubt I am alone in this lack of comprehension. But just because one cannot understand is not a good justification for ignoring it.
    Or, embracing it. Yet, you do, without understanding and comprehension.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    The difference, however, is that I understand that I could be 100 percent wrong in my belief, but it is still my belief. You are unwilling to consider that my belief may be correct.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Freshman manadude2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    At a computer on Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy... chocolate bar.
    Posts
    41
    Please do not post general discussion! There is a thread for that!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Freshman manadude2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    At a computer on Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy... chocolate bar.
    Posts
    41
    Please do not post answers that are more than 5 lines long. Includes Quotes.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    The difference, however, is that I understand that I could be 100 percent wrong in my belief, but it is still my belief. You are unwilling to consider that my belief may be correct.
    It's not a matter of being willing to consider your beliefs are correct, it has been considered. Your beliefs are highly improbable to be correct.

    Interestingly enough, you mention 100%. If you are less than 100%, would that change your mind?

    How about 90%?
    80%?
    50%?

    and so on...

    At what percentage of 'correctness' would you change your mind about your beliefs?
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,245
    manadude2, which one of the options in your poll means "No"? I'll choose that one, because as far as I can reason it out, with or without the hypothetical existence of a God, there would be no hell.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •