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Thread: what is real? what is science?

  1. #1 what is real? what is science? 
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    i was looking for the answer to everything and i found the church of reality.

    seriously guys you have to check this site out. it claims to be an anti-religious religion, and they worship reality.

    OK sounds good so far, but how do they define reality?

    well i checked their FAQ and this is a direct quote

    "Isn't Reality just science? Why do you want to stain science by lowering it to the level of a religion?


    In pure science the universe is just stars exploding and rocks in space bumping into each other."

    they've opened war on the church of scientology aswell haha. good because scientology is possibly on a par of ridiculousness with these guys.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    Church of Reality

    That's.... about as wierd as it gets, lol. It's like... an atheist religion or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by From The Site
    How do you know that the Church of Reality won't become corrupt like all the other religions?

    That's a very good question. The short answer is that we don't know that. It is definitely possible that the Church of Reality will become just another cult. But - there are a few differences that we are starting with that distinguish the Church of Reality from other religions.

    First - the Church of Reality is about reality. Reality is more stable that a religion based on a fictional premise or lost books or books written by people which are supposed to be influenced by invisible deities. With fiction based religions - if the religion moves from one fiction to another - who is to say which is the better fiction. Reality is something you can always get back to. Reality is something that doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. The Church of Reality can stay true as long as it remembers its original mission.

    Second - The Church of Reality isn't about any individual. It's about reality. So it's not something that is driven by a personality. No one is empowered by supernatural forces or otherwise spiritually endowed.

    Third - The Principle of Self Scrutiny will help keep us on track and let us look at our progress and evaluate ourselves as objectively as possible so hat if we get off track we can correct ourselves and get back to where we should be. We are committed to doing the hard work and making sure that we are in fact successful and that we resist the paths of corruption.

    The bottom line is - we are just going to have to try hard and hope for the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by From The Site
    The Church or Reality exists for the pursuit of the understanding of understanding.
    It doesn't sound bad, but what will it develop into? This is just too wierd, a religion based upon nothing supernatural or alien etc? Is it to even be considered a religion?

    EDIT:

    The Churchs' Hidden Agenda

    Ahahaha^^


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  4. #3  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    It sounds almost like something cosmo would join. :-D As for scientology: it is the worst of the worst! If hell existed, L Ron Hubbard would be in it.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  5. #4  
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    I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long :?
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    I guess if people can belong to a cult that believes jesus is on a spaceship and you go there if you commit suicide, they can believe in scientology.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long :?
    Proof of my maxim that people can and will believe just about anything.



    Unfortunately the maxim means that there will also be people who believe that people should not be allowed to believe as they choose, but must be force to think as they insist is the only possible rational way.

    My hope is that most people can see that it is better accept that this maxim is unalterable, and that we should love people for who they are. Granted this will certainly have limits in regards to what beliefs people can be allowed to act upon. Nevertheless it seems to me that tolerance is a worthwhile ideal to follow as far as is consistently possible.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I still have problems understanding why scientology at all exists, and how it's managed to exist for so long :?
    Why does it exist: Hubbard was an amoral genius. Why has is survived: it is heirarchical.
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    the reasons these (lets face it-crazy) churches exist and are larger than ever before is really quite simple.

    1) ease of global communication: i think we can all agree that its easier to 'spread the faith' than it ever has been before.

    2) they become ever more implausible(which means harder to prove one way or the other): people who gravitate towards these wacko beliefs simply want to be able to have absolute faith so that they dont have to be responsible for anything. the more crazy and modern the church is, generally the harder to disprove.

    3) they avoid the mistakes they've seen other religions make: for example they become more vague. they've seen judaism, christianity etc all being slowly choked by the advancement of the general level of knowledge/awareness in the population. and so, eg. the church of reality believes in reality-as proved by science. a good theory in premise except when you read it, it becomes crystal clear they have NO IDEA about even the most basic science principles, and has simply become fanatical about 'reality' with no central focus. therefore making it easy to defend their vague belief in 'reality'.
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    I'm aware of all this, the thing I don't get is why it has been allowed to prosper. In the US it's recognized as a religion, therefore it has also gotten the benefits religions get. If I'm not mistaking, if a cult reach a certain number of members, then it is allowed to be recognized as a religion? People in the cult of scientology get their minds raped with all kinds of wierd techniques and we sit by and watch it happen, allow it to happen. I think the reason why scientology has prospered for so long is because of overtolerance.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "letting people make their own choices", but there's a line to be drawn. Not all people are capable of making the right choices. Reason for that can include: they are vulnerable, they are just plain stupid, they just want to try something new, they are handicapped etc, etc. When you join scientology, they make SURE you are pshycologically damaged enough to pay A LOT of money. They make SURE they can suck out every little life span and every little dollar you might have. For anyone trying to expose them as dangerous, they are killed.

    Why the heck has this been allowed to prosper?
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    For anyone trying to expose them as dangerous, they are killed.
    Where did you here this?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Where did you here this?
    Searching here and there about info on scientology... I think I got something from here: http://www.scientomogy.com/

    You could try a google-search: http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    There might be a possibility it's wrong, but seing scientologists themselves (and they are creepy), they look capable of anything.

    EDIT:

    Just look at them, brrrr! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y

    But this is seriously off-topic though
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    Proof of my maxim that people can and will believe just about anything.



    Unfortunately the maxim means that there will also be people who believe that people should not be allowed to believe as they choose, but must be force to think as they insist is the only possible rational way.

    My hope is that most people can see that it is better accept that this maxim is unalterable, and that we should love people for who they are. Granted this will certainly have limits in regards to what beliefs people can be allowed to act upon. Nevertheless it seems to me that tolerance is a worthwhile ideal to follow as far as is consistently possible.
    excellent point! and i agree completely. but what kind of society is this possible in? certainly not democracy, and definitely not communism (as it exists today).

    If I'm not mistaking, if a cult reach a certain number of members, then it is allowed to be recognized as a religion?
    also completely true.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "letting people make their own choices", but there's a line to be drawn. Not all people are capable of making the right choices. Reason for that can include: they are vulnerable, they are just plain stupid, they just want to try something new, they are handicapped etc,
    so what do you suggest? who makes the choices for them?! you? me? a government?

    please give me your views as i am extremely curious as to how you might deal with this situation?
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    It's a though situation, I'll admit that. But one of the "rules" I live by is "everything in moderation." Always try to avoid extremes as good as you can. It's not right that people should be making choices for others, but rather help them understand, try and guide them. You can make suggestions and talk about the world, but ultimately the choice is theirs. If they don't understand, then there's nothing to do about it. You should try and help people, not force them to anything. That's probably also why I have no belief in any ideology We're all different. We need to understand that and learn to accept it.

    No extreme is good, be it intolerance or overtolerance.

    EDIT: I'm a little tired and made a huge typo which can be seen in bold
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    Well, what if a religion endorsed the use of Pot or LSD to its members, then the government would step in rite? But if they endorse public beheadings, stonings and a range of other sick practices, we say that is their culture and we shouldnt interfere.
    Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Why the heck has this been allowed to prosper?
    The same reason the mafia has prospered. It is called due process of law. You have to prove that they defrauding people or violating the law in some manner. From the TV series "CSI", we learn that there are places in Las Vegas where one can pursue many bizarre ideas of sexuality, including types of sado-masochism. The point is that if people freely choose to participate they can be beaten and abused to their hearts content. Therefore no matter how "sick" you think such activities and establishments are, a secular society does not allow your personal moral sensibilities to be the standard by which it is decided what other people are allowed to do. Capiche?
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    The same reason the mafia has prospered. It is called due process of law. You have to prove that they defrauding people or violating the law in some manner. From the TV series "CSI", we learn that there are places in Las Vegas where one can pursue many bizarre ideas of sexuality, including types of sado-masochism. The point is that if people freely choose to participate they can be beaten and abused to their hearts content. Therefore no matter how "sick" you think such activities and establishments are, a secular society does not allow your personal moral sensibilities to be the standard by which it is decided what other people are allowed to do. Capiche?
    So we should just let scientology kill people who need medisin (they are against pshycology) and kill people who appose them. This is not an ordinary religion, mind you. Scientology is arguably the purest evil in the world, manipulating people with sessions they pay hundreads of dollars where they stare in an hour in some other persons eyes. They manipulate their members to the point of madness. Your points are worthless when it comes to scientology, they aren't even comparable. Everyone who has left the cult has suffered from pshycological damage, trauma etc. And this is allowed to proceed? Follow the link dejawolf gave. See what they do!
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Your points are worthless when it comes to scientology, they aren't even comparable.
    Not comparable to the mafia? Then you think that the mafia is a good thing?

    You are the one comparing them to religions and then saything that they don't compare. ...very confusing...



    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    So we should just let scientology kill people who need medisin (they are against pshycology) and kill people who appose them. This is not an ordinary religion, mind you. Scientology is arguably the purest evil in the world, manipulating people with sessions they pay hundreads of dollars where they stare in an hour in some other persons eyes. They manipulate their members to the point of madness.
    Most people would consider the mafia to be a greater evil, but the point is that there is an even greater evil than either on of these and that is the use of government by some people to impose their ideas of what is moral on other people. If you disagree with this then perhaps you should move to a muslim country for they disagree with this also.



    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Everyone who has left the cult has suffered from pshycological damage, trauma etc. And this is allowed to proceed?
    It is up to those who have knowledge or evidence of this being the case to pursue legal action against them. It looks to me like this Suppressive Person Defense League are just the people for the job. But no I am not going to let the horror of such accusations be used as an excuse to dismantle the freedoms of this country. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything and we cannot let people use the governement as a tool for THEIR desire to abuse and murder people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Follow the link dejawolf gave. See what they do!
    There are all sorts of the most absurd allegations on the internet. Thank goodness this is not the standard by which people are prosecuted in this country for these websites amount to public opinion only.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Not comparable to the mafia? Then you think that the mafia is a good thing?

    You are the one comparing them to religions and then saything that they don't compare. ...very confusing...

    The mafia is intelligent, these people are crazy, there's a little difference. I don't recall comparing them with religion. I only recall saying they were accepted as a religion. I call them a cult.

    Most people would consider the mafia to be a greater evil, but the point is that there is an even greater evil than either on of these and that is the use of government by some people to impose their ideas of what is moral on other people. If you disagree with this then perhaps you should move to a muslim country for they disagree with this also.

    The lesser of two evils is still evil. But there's a clear difference between the mafia and scientology. At least the police is trying to stop the mafia.

    It is up to those who have knowledge or evidence of this being the case to pursue legal action against them. It looks to me like this Suppressive Person Defense League are just the people for the job. But no I am not going to let the horror of such accusations be used as an excuse to dismantle the freedoms of this country. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything and we cannot let people use the governement as a tool for THEIR desire to abuse and murder people.

    Whatever makes you sleep at night.

    There are all sorts of the most absurd allegations on the internet. Thank goodness this is not the standard by which people are prosecuted in this country for these websites amount to public opinion only.

    This has been on the news if I'm not mistaking... Perhaps you should look into the history of scientology, get a better understanding of this cult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    This has been on the news if I'm not mistaking... Perhaps you should look into the history of scientology, get a better understanding of this cult.
    I don't see much reason to. I do not dispute the allegations. Nor would I or the vast majority of religious organizations in this country lift a finger in their defense as long as due process is upheld. They are like any the wacko, self-destructive things that people get involved in. I simply avoid them. The problem is that my definition of wacko and self-destructive, although agreeing in this one instance are not precisely the same as yours and so you wouldn't want me imposing my idea of these things upon you, or visa versa.
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    Scientology is as bad as many forms of other cults and religions such as Christianity.

    Christian evangelical movements, such as the charismatic movement, that's widespread across America and Europe, actively seek out children because they know they are easier to brainwash and manipulate.

    Yet they do it in a much more deceitful way because they mask this sisnister fundamentalism beneath a facade of love and compassion.

    At least with the wacky behaviour of scientology you have more of a chance to see the weirdness what you're getting into.

    Really if anyone wants to work with the mind and train it to be of benefit then Buddhism and its meditative practices is probably the only way to go. They can be trusted because the intention is not to control you. It's to get you to learn how to control yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Scientology is as bad as many forms of other cults and religions such as Christianity.

    Christian evangelical movements, such as the charismatic movement, that's widespread across America and Europe, actively seek out children because they know they are easier to brainwash and manipulate.

    Yet they do it in a much more deceitful way because they mask this sisnister fundamentalism beneath a facade of love and compassion.

    At least with the wacky behaviour of scientology you have more of a chance to see the weirdness what you're getting into.

    Really if anyone wants to work with the mind and train it to be of benefit then Buddhism and its meditative practices is probably the only way to go. They can be trusted because the intention is not to control you. It's to get you to learn how to control yourself.
    nuff said. they are all taking peoples freedom and in the case of christians or jews actively pursuing the belief that everybody needs to be converted.

    like its said above the lesser of two evils is still evil.
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    Kingla

    We're not interested in your Spanish blog-spot thanks

    This person is an annoying Troll who just here to promote his/her blog

    And is posting them same response all over the forum

    Ignore them!

    .......He He He we don't stand fer no nonsense on dis forum

    We will spit on your SPAM!

    .......WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!

    ( If you know from which film the above quote comes from i will give you a prize)
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    not only that but he/she is bringing up such old threads back to the top! This is ridiculous, I sure can't read it, and he/she never explains anything, just quotes the person and puts the link at the end I think it is Latin, but I am not sure.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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    Hey, can we all just leave the trolls alone? :?

    If Selene hadn’t posted, I wouldn’t have known (or wanted to know) what Kingla posted (his/her spam had already been modded when I first clicked this thread). But thanks to Selene’s reply, I now can’t avoid knowing what the spam was about.

    Responding to a troll’s post is bad enough – but making a reference to the content of a troll’s post is plain stupid! The latter is only helping the trolls to promote their spam! :x

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  28. #27  
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    "Every time you feed a troll, God kills a kitten"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Hey, can we all just leave the trolls alone? :?

    If Selene hadn’t posted, I wouldn’t have known (or wanted to know) what Kingla posted (his/her spam had already been modded when I first clicked this thread). But thanks to Selene’s reply, I now can’t avoid knowing what the spam was about.

    Responding to a troll’s post is bad enough – but making a reference to the content of a troll’s post is plain stupid! The latter is only helping the trolls to promote their spam! :x
    Well Jane he/she was annoying me because he/she kept reviving lots of old posts and were just wasting time making people view the posts thinking there was something interesting to read!

    You're often accusing others of trolling yourself as well as being insulting to other members and filling up post space, so who's feeding trolls miss Superior Knickers!???

    If you weren't so nosy...........

    or so utterly pedantic

    S***Y C*W
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    Perhaps I should say “please don’t quote the contents of spammers’ posts” instead, but unfortunately I can’t find any image with that caption.

    Some posts are obviously spam and you know a mod will soon be coming along and zapping them. If you see such a post and reply to it, at least don’t make any reference to the contents of the post. The point of zapping such a post is because nobody needs to know what nonsense is in that post. If you make reference to the spam contents while replying to the post, then zapping the post becomes pointless since people will still know what nonsense had been posted in it just by seeing your reply. :?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Perhaps I should say “please don’t quote the contents of spammers’ posts” instead, but unfortunately I can’t find any image with that caption.

    Some posts are obviously spam and you know a mod will soon be coming along and zapping them. If you see such a post and reply to it, at least don’t make any reference to the contents of the post. The point of zapping such a post is because nobody needs to know what nonsense is in that post. If you make reference to the spam contents while replying to the post, then zapping the post becomes pointless since people will still know what nonsense had been posted in it just by seeing your reply. :?
    So?

    Big deal Jane

    Oh dear are you gonna have loss of appetite and nightmares tonight now you know what the spam was about?

    I did inform Pendragon and he swiftly removed them all including the link.


    Are you always so anal?
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    Pendragon, or you yourelf, ought to remove the reference to the spam content in your post as well. Yes indeed, that would certainly spare me the anorexia and nightmares I could very well do without.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Pendragon, or you yourelf, ought to remove the reference to the spam content in your post as well. Yes indeed, that would certainly spare me the anorexia and nightmares I could very well do without.

    How sad
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  34. #33  
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    God bless common sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka View Post
    God bless common sense
    indeed
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