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December 22nd, 2007, 10:32 PM
I bet she's hated by Muslim extremists.
It is terrible what Islam does, but bear in mind that this stuff is only done by Muslim extremists.
Also have you ever heard of propoganda? Propoganda lead you all to allow the invasion of Iraq, propoganda is leading all to atheism. And people here say I'M naiive. I don't believe anything the media says, they talk bullsh!t, anyone who disagrees can have a nice day.
Theres a lot of suffering in the world and a lot of it isn't related tor religion. The worlds this way, either do something about it or stop whining, itts going to happen, deal with it.
Propaganda has lead to theism! You don't get to talk about atheists breeding propaganda, the majority speak out against such propaganda which is using religion as a justification. That is why many turn to atheism.Originally Posted by svwillmer
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Seneca.
Lets keep in mind there is a large religious motive involved in the invasion of Iraq although it is not deliberately spoken about politically. There is a religious motive stopping peace on either side (although I admit that is not the full story, it is just a needless complication.)
A lot of suffering in the world IS related in the world is religiously motivated and the difference between religious and non religious suffering is that religious suffering is excessively pointless & achieves nothing for nobody. eg refusing condoms to africa, genital mutilation of women in certain countries & the war of Israel vs Palestine.
How so?
Atheism is a conclusion arrived at by free, unrestricted thought and logic. No amount of "propaganda" can lead one to atheism. Atheism is what remains when propaganda is non-existent and the light of reason reveals itself. If anything, propaganda can (and does) lead to religious beliefs. Churches are nothing more than institutes of propaganda.
What about this comment? Is this not true?
I am doing something about it in my own life, a small contribution is condemning whta is wrong with some religion for what it does.
yes suffering is going to happen (if thats what you meant by its going to happen) but that doesn't mean we should stand by what we know are root causes and wait until something does happen.
I dont think anyone's whining here. If you are referring is important, I believe her story like others who have suffered is important and should be told as its necessary for reflection to ensure things like this are not repeated (although this is a different case here)
Your saying religion is wrong is not helping anyone. Get out there and put an end to it if you want it abolished or stay silent.
your beg a bit abstract again, could you clarify, put an end to what if I want what abolished?
Robbie said:
Uh, are you saying that Hitler and Stalin were not master propagandists? They were atheists. Suggesting that atheists are not adept at propagandizing shows extreme naivety or ignorance, take your pick. Propaganda is more of a political tool than a religious tool.You don't get to talk about atheists breeding propaganda, the majority speak out against such propaganda which is using religion as a justification.
some more christian extremism:
army of god killing abortion doctors.
here's an interesting one, environmentalist extremists:
the ELF or "earth liberation front.
their terrorism consists of firebombing SUVs, and no people has been harmed... yet.
yeah they were but that's what happens with fascism, there give me a clear example of a democratic atheist leader who has caused similar damage. (I think Dawkins views on this are a bit ignorant of historically what hapepned) There is a line where religion is clearly at fault and where something else is at fault, not atheism though thats just contrived.
I'm not saying that all atheists are good people but its like Weinberg(?) said
There are good people who do good things and evil people who do bad things but to make a good person do an evil thing, that takes religion.
We are using different definitions of propaganda I think here, I think religion can be used as propaganda as it can justify what I consider are evil practises & racism (as above or eg homophobia & antisemitism) it is a tool perhaps of a greater aim of propaganda (is that a better way of putting it?)
"Religion is evil" is one example.How so?
isn't it about time, you became a bit smarter, you've been told and shown on numerous occasions, in regard to your inane ramblings about stalin, hitler, etc... both were despots, one communist, the other lutherian christian. Your point is lost if you keep repeating the same mistake. And you become imbecilic.
http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...ghlight=#98046
bolded and blue read it.
it can only be classed as propaganda if it is a complete fabrication, or out to promote a cause, in this case it clearly isn't, evidence verifies it as true."Religion is evil" is one example.How so?
I dont see any promoting atheism anywhere either, do you.
Losing credibility is caused by using fallacious arguments, like the despot argument.
Having lost credibility is caused by using the same fallacious arguments over and over again, like Daytonturner has.
notice how religious fanatics kill, while non-religious fanatics avoid killing, instead causing material damage.
[quote="dejawolf"]notice how religious fanatics kill, while non-religious fanatics avoid killing, instead causing material damage.[/quote
Ever hear of the Killing fields?
Ever hear of peaceful Muslim suicide bombers?
Couldn't have. Lack of belief in destiny(al Qadr) and taking matters into own hands is not an act of faith :P
Supported by peer reviewed evidence, suicide bombers are secularists.
QED, since trial and error and making an objective analysis on least resource expended for maximum impact, sounds like the kind of nutty thing a non theist is likely to go for. 8)
I'm a strong atheist but the pros and cons of religion have zero to do with the existence or not of a god. If all the world sat down in a big love fest it wouldn't add any evidence to the existence of a god. i'm not a Marxist but do agree with his view of religion as a reflection of other forces in society. Belief systems can be wrapped up in religion, race, nationalism and so on. Just veneers of the same side of the coin.
Humans evolved as a social species. Divisions are necessary for identification and the functioning of social groups. We distinguish ourslves from 'them' since humans were humans and probably before that. Diverse colonies of ants don't all get together and sing the ant version of Kumbaya and there's nothing 'wrong' with humans distinguishing themselves in various groups. If self-identification of groups wasn't via religious baloney it would be via some other baloney as race, language, nation.
lol, what! I sure they dont thing so. You are funny.Couldn't have. Lack of belief in destiny(al Qadr) and taking matters into own hands is not an act of faith :
Supported by peer reviewed evidence, suicide bombers are secularists.
lol, whatever get's you through the day.
any idea what the most precious things is to the non theists.
I actually totally agree, good post. :wink:
Bravo. An honest rational atheist.
A rarity. :-D
"Suicide bombers are not mentally ill or unhinged, but acting rationally in pursuit of the 'benefits' they perceive from being part of a strict and close-knit religious enterprise, according to a University of Nottingham academic."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0620115415.htm
"According to the Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, a comprehensive history of this troubling yet topical phenomenon, while suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, when religion is involved, it is always Muslim."
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/...=pto-4359.html
"The term "martyrdom operations" connotes respect and honor for the bomber, distinguishing the act from suicide. "It is well-known that Islam forbids suicide," explains Sheikh Bassam Jarrar, a popular religious leader based in Ramallah. "Suicide is running away, it is weakness and fear of facing life and its troubles. But martyrdom operations are something else. This phenomenon is known throughout history and it is respected by all nations. People who carry out such attacks are those who are very brave, braver than others."
http://programs.ssrc.org/gsc/gsc_qua...content/allen/
as if honest rational theists are in abundance...Bravo. An honest rational atheist.
A rarity. :-D
Bottom line guys most atheists are young and are bordering fanatacism with your belief in no God and spreading that God does not exist and that religion is destroying the world. You can't honstly expect someone to respect your point of view let alone listen to it if you say its 'dogmatic, stupid, irrational, immoral' and everything else. What if someone came along and said that about atheism? You'd be well p!ssed.
Now look, I say this for the millionth time. Religion is not bad, it can be bad just like the police can be bad and the government can be bad and your neighbours, friends and family can be bad. There are bad things in all areas of life, religion is one. There is so much more you can do instead of constantly taking the rip out of religion. If you don't like religion get your fat ass of the computer, get out there and prove that religion is bad for the world. It's enough for a man to complain about something, but a true warrior of humanity will fight the cause. You are not, you're just rambling against theists and the more you talk the less meaning your words have. The world is a cruel place even without religion, deal with it.
Statistically, they are.
Speaks the queen of deception and propaganda.Statistically, they are.
Just like your so-called peer reviewed "secular" suicide bombers.
No, actually, I'd make a friendly laugh and prove them wrong. No need to get angry.
Dogma makes good people do bad because they're convinced it's good.
The bottom line is your entire rant contradicts itself throughout.
"The world is a cruel place even without religion, deal with it."
Then, religion is useless, isn't it?
Or, is religion the cause?
Let's find out.
I think that's over simplified, (maybe that's what you're getting at)
I accept there are good & bad people who do good and bad things, however some religious practises cause harm & proclaim it to be good. This kind of practise is wrong and as an atheist, I believe ultimately to no benefit to anyone, ever & so should be stopped.
Which practices are you referring to and how do you propose to stop them?
Is the philosiphy of one out of 6 billion people on the Earth. Nice motto for atheists though.
its a fact. you clasp your hands, and i'll work, and lets see who finish our job first. god won't do a miracle.Is the philosiphy of one out of 6 billion people on the Earth. Nice motto for atheists though.
and god won't strike me down with lighting as i write this.
GOD SUCKS, TO PROVE OTHERWISE STRIKE ME DOWN WITH LIGHTNING!
Do you want me to ask Him to?
Suicide bombing in the name of Allah,Which practices are you referring to and how do you propose to stop them?
Genital mutilation as a religious practise in some countries.
The refusal to provide condoms to subsaharan Africa to prevent HIV transmission on religious grounds.
Homophobia.
Wars based on technicalities/subdivisions of religious groups eg in Northern Ireland (catholic vs Protestant) or the conflict betweens Shias & Sunnis.
These are axiomatically needlessly bad except that religion has rendered them valid/right.
I believe the only way for people to realise that these practises are wrong is to realise that their religion is wrong to permit them. If there is a God, then these practises are moral and justified, but I dont know how anyone can believe that.
It's not a philosophy, it is a fact.Is the philosiphy of one out of 6 billion people on the Earth. Nice motto for atheists though.
Thats your opinion, and it is noted. Your evidence for that is based on your relative stand point. You can't tell me the length of a spaceship next to you at 0.9c when I'm at 0.001c. And you can't prove it from my point of view. Opinions are due to relative observations. Stop oppressing my relativity. I went out on a limb saying it was a good motto and I'm not supposed to say that. Atheism = selfishness. But thats my point of view and my relative opinion.It's not a philosophy, it is a fact.Is the philosiphy of one out of 6 billion people on the Earth. Nice motto for atheists though.
Unless you or anyone else can demonstrate prayer works, it will remain a fact, despite your authoritative stance.
At last we agreeUnless you or anyone else can demonstrate prayer works, it will remain a fact, despite your authoritative stance.
Prayer does not work. It's superstition. Last I checked, the easter bunny or santa clause do not exist. Neither does god or prayer.
Prove it. You can't. Therefore your opinion is only noted.
No but it can be tested and so far after YEARS of wishing for peace, we dont seem that much closer, no thanks to prayer.
If we spent less time condoning prayer on a science forum and more time helping those in need, there would be no need to pray in the first place.
If theists spent less time praying and more time helping those in need, there would no need for religion.
I don't pray only unless neccesary. If you don't like religion get off this forum and go about stopping it.If theists spent less time praying and more time helping those in need, there would no need for religion.
If you don't like science, then why are you on a scientific forum?
So, when does it become necessary?
. I love science, where did I say I didn't verzen?
Never really, not with me anyway.So, when does it become necessary?
It's an easy conclusion that you can't truly love science if you put all your eggs in one basket on one "theory" you may have about the universe. Even an idiot knows that they should NEVER put all their time and money into a single thing that may or may not be true. Yes, you may call that faith, but I call it irresponsibility. If you had a theory to create a time machine, and you had one way of doing it.. You wouldn't build the time machine and have all your faith on this ONE single idea or concept for making it work. If you did, then you just wasted all your MONEY and TIME trying to build something that doesn't work... Trial and error does not exacly work when you just wasted millions of dollars on a failed project and no one trusts you to try a different method since you were not cautious about it. The fact that you throw all your eggs in one basket (or you 100% believe in the supernatural) is enough reason to know that you are not a true scientific man. If you were, then you would know that god has not yet been turned into law, and that he deserves some doubt in his existance. Otherwise, if it turns out to be false, then you just wasted your entire life... which is foolish.
So, when will you finally pull your head out of your ass?Never really, not with me anyway.So, when does it become necessary?
My entire life? With my beliefs I've forever to learn. Full faith in God I have, and deeds.
When you do.So, when will you finally pull your head out of your ass?Never really, not with me anyway.So, when does it become necessary?
So tell me then. If you were given 10 million dollars in funding. You have an idea. Would you spend all the 10 million on one concept or way of doing that idea or would you try to manage your money?
I'd make sure the theory was 90% plus capable before. I wouldn't need that much money anyway.
So why do you put 100% into the theory of god before checking your work? Seems kind of ignorant to do so.
Because I have faith and deeds in God. God is a non-worldy belief. Worldy beliefs and ideas don't work with God.
Because god doesn't exist.
How time use to be: The strongest ruled the weak...
The weak faught back by creating a secular "club" called religion. They spread propaganda explaining to the strong that if they did not obide by this propaganda, then our gods would destroy them. Usually the strongest wernt very smart, so they fell into that pit of believing them.
Then by your philosiphy you are in the position that opressed people thousands of years ago were in, and by fighting back against that which oppreses you. You are repeating history, by your philosiphy.
I'm fighting back because our poor ancestors of the past COULDN'T. They did not have the man power the church had/has. I will always fight against religion. Why? Because I do not believe in fairy tales. I do not believe in dying for a cause. I do not believe that we should be killing off people who arn't the religion of your country.. (Watch a muslim try to convert to a christian in the middle east... they would be killed, even by todays standards.)
The muslims of today are just like the christians of the past... the Muslim's were also oppressed. There is a reason Crusade means to take, while Jihad means to take BACK.
Plus this little thing doesn't help your case...
http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=5361
God does not hate.
Religion is not that which causes the problems in the world, it is not the gun that pulls its own trigger.
Firstly, i you are talking to atheists you have to understand that we are not going to listen to you if you tell us that God does/does not hate, we don't believe he exists so this will just fall on deaf ears.
Religion does cause problems in the world, perhaps you can argue not your own religion, but one can argue September 11th would never have happened if there was no such thing as religion.
Im not saying (here anyway!) that religion is all bad, just that it is by no means perfect (although Im sure you'll make that argument against atheism.)
This is just a clash of views (which I think is currently being explored on your angry atheist thread!) where there is intolerance and arrogance on either side as neither side really understands the arguments of the other. But please svwillmer, stop invoking god in arguments as your own trump since the majority will not accept it as valid! :wink:
My own trump? I never noticed I was doing that, its who I am
Islam causes problems then if we are talking about 9/11. That was terrible wasn't it, I was so shocked at the time.
Ahh.... finished my nap...
Anyway...
I was so shocked when the templars massicured muslim caravans. I was so shocked that the US cares MORE about the world then it's own people. We NEED to focus on ourselves. If that 6 billion were used on education and science instead of funding SADAM HUSEIN and OSAMA BIN LADEN, we would not be in this mess. We created our bed, sadly we now have to lie in it.
Not only islam causes problems, Christianity has led to child abuse by priests throughout the world and has prevented condoms reaching Africa due to its own moral objections. I see the religions it as two sides of the same coin and I see this behavior as irrational to allow it continue on religious grounds, I'm sure you'll agree with me on that much.
Yes I do, but you can't balme Christianity for evil preist doing things to children. Do the victims family of a shooting blame the gun manufacturer?Not only islam causes problems, Christianity has led to child abuse by priests throughout the world and has prevented condoms reaching Africa due to its own moral objections. I see the religions it as two sides of the same coin and I see this behavior as irrational to allow it continue on religious grounds, I'm sure you'll agree with me on that much.
I'm pretty sure that if they made a condom specifically for raping little children, the manufacturor of that company would be in deep shit if someone went out and used that product to rape little children. So yes, it is the gun manufacturers fault. Japan has less gun deaths per capita and weapons are OUTLAWED there... except of course for cops or if you have a family heirloom. (a sword for instance)
No but without Christianity priests would not have been put in such a situation (of celibacy) and parents would not have had their children put in such a situation.Yes I do, but you can't balme Christianity for evil preist doing things to children. Do the victims family of a shooting blame the gun manufacturer?Not only islam causes problems, Christianity has led to child abuse by priests throughout the world and has prevented condoms reaching Africa due to its own moral objections. I see the religions it as two sides of the same coin and I see this behavior as irrational to allow it continue on religious grounds, I'm sure you'll agree with me on that much.
As for guns, I'm against domestic use of them by anyone other than the military/police anyway so I would agree with you on that, and I do blame the gun manufacturers, though not as much as whatever government allows it, who I blame as much as the person who committed the act
So out of all the good that has come from Christianity (there has believe it or not), we should get rid of the majority that is good because of a small portion of bad that the media publisces to seem a large amount of bad. Should we disallow free speech because some offend others?No but without Christianity priests would not have been put in such a situation (of celibacy) and parents would not have had their children put in such a situation.Yes I do, but you can't balme Christianity for evil preist doing things to children. Do the victims family of a shooting blame the gun manufacturer?Not only islam causes problems, Christianity has led to child abuse by priests throughout the world and has prevented condoms reaching Africa due to its own moral objections. I see the religions it as two sides of the same coin and I see this behavior as irrational to allow it continue on religious grounds, I'm sure you'll agree with me on that much.
As for guns, I'm against domestic use of them by anyone other than the military/police anyway so I would agree with you on that, and I do blame the gun manufacturers, though not as much as whatever government allows it, who I blame as much as the person who committed the act
What good has come out of christianity, in your opinion?
Join the live chat and we can well, chat
What good has come out of christianity, in your opinion?
ME!
debatable!
Christian nations abolished the African slave trade. The slave trade had been ongoing before the Europeans got involved and continued in Sub-Saharan Africa and the Muslim world for some time after abolition in the European colonies. The English and French suppressed the slave trade on the west African coast, where the king of Dahomey wanted to continue the lucrative slave trade. Slaving existed openly in Zanzibar until Britain took over the mainland following their defeat of the Germans in the First World War.
Did you HAVE to be christian to realise making someone a slave was bad? It was people that determined slavery to be bad. It was not christianity. Christianity had nothing to do with it. Infact, USA had it's own slavery where christians had their own slaves.
If you are going to blame religion for everything bad that happens in western society, then I will credit religion for everything good that happens. Fair enough?
I'm pretty sure they used the bible to justify slavery.
No, because im not crediting everything bad in western society is do to religion. I'm using common sense and logic. Something that you apparently have none of.
If something CAN be done without the use of religion, then it's not the cause of religion. Easy explanation, isn't it?
If something can NOT be done without religion, then it's the CAUSE of religion. Wow, thats very logical isn't Verzen...
Why yes it is Verzen..
You can not say that something that can be done without the use of religion thats good is automatically the cause of religion...
Like wise you can not say that if something can NOT be done without religion then it is not the cause of religion. Makes no sense.. logic does NOT compute.
Inquisition? They forced people to confess their sins... if there was no religion, would they force people to confess their sins? No, because there would be no confessing.
Slave trade, if religion did not exist, would someone be nice enough to realise that we are all human beings and we should be kind to eachother? Definately...
Crusades? Would templars be trying to take over a holy city if religion didn't exist? No, why? because that city would no longer be holy and have no more value to it....
Until you learn logic instead of claming religion has done everything good in the world... then you will understand the fallacy of your argument.
I'm not blaming religion for everything bad in the world. Tax collectors back in the middle ages.. they were corrupt, but would they still be corrupt without religion? Of course!
Ghengis kahn trying to take over the world... could he have done that without religion? Damn straight!
Stalin was an athiest and forced religion out of russia, but thats not what made him scary... he was paranoid and insane. Could he have been paranoid and insane without the concept of religion? Yes, of course... religion does not cause insanity...
See dude? Your logic is so messed up by indoctrination that you can't think straight.
Yes, some did. Others found passages in the Bible to support their anti-slavery. The Quakers would not use sugar because that would support the slave trade. In the US, which was very religious, a war was fought largely over slavery, with the majority (North) being anti-slavery. John Brown was an anti-slavery religious nut. And, if anti-slavery were so obviously good, why didn't the African kings and the Muslims figure that out?
The inquisition was mostly a defensive response to the incursion of Islam, which also persecutes apostates. They were fighting fire with fire. So if Europe was populated by atheists, they might have done something similar to keep from being overrun. The same could be said of the Crusades, which were at least in part defensive.
I get the point now, religion was neutral in this case.
Thats why they ripped the tongues out of people who did not confess during the inquisition right?Yes, some did. Others found passages in the Bible to support their anti-slavery. The Quakers would not use sugar because that would support the slave trade. In the US, which was very religious, a war was fought largely over slavery, with the majority (North) being anti-slavery. John Brown was an anti-slavery religious nut. And, if anti-slavery were so obviously good, why didn't the African kings and the Muslims figure that out?
The inquisition was mostly a defensive response to the incursion of Islam, which also persecutes apostates. They were fighting fire with fire. So if Europe was populated by atheists, they might have done something similar to keep from being overrun. The same could be said of the Crusades, which were at least in part defensive.
Thats why the crusades means to take land while jihad means to take land BACK.. right?
Sounds pretty offensive to me... And when I say if religion was not part of something, I ment that it is in no way a contribution.. as if religion had vanished from existance... Im not talking about if one side had religion and the other didn't.
At least they gave them a chance to recant, whereas the Muslims simply killed their apostates, and still do.Where did you get those definitions? "The first crusade was launched in 1095 by Pope Urban II with the dual goals of liberating the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslims and freeing the Eastern Christians from Muslim rule."(quote from Wikipedia)Thats why the crusades means to take land while jihad means to take land BACK.. right?Your original question was about Christianity. I know you want all religion to simply vanish. It's not gonna happen.Sounds pretty offensive to me... And when I say if religion was not part of something, I ment that it is in no way a contribution.. as if religion had vanished from existance... Im not talking about if one side had religion and the other didn't.
So you are saying that blackmail is good? Forcing someone to do something they did NOT want to do was a good act as long it justifies the means? Wow your twisted!
You say that the first crusade was defensive, but the action was offensive...
Attacking someplace is an OFFENSIVE nature.. there is no defensive nature about it. Christians thought that jerusulum was a holy city, guess what? So did the muslims... Thats why the muslims fought so hard to control it and that is why there has been no peace in the middle east. And little do you know.. Muslim rule was not that bad. Saladin was a great and wise ruler. He was a marvelous, honorable man and great strategist.
So I am correct, crusade is to take land. What did they do to jerusalem? They took it. Jihad is to take land back. When the muslim's committed a jihad, what did they do? Tried taking back jerusalem... which always seemed to follow after THEIR land was taken. The christian nations ALWAYS seemed to expand while the muslims were CONTENT with what they had.
A great instigator of muslim's hating christians also is the christian Templars. The templars mutilated muslim caravans for NO reason... How do you explain that? (The templars were a part of the church)
Who do you think was in the Holy Land first, Christians or Muslims. Since there were no muslims until the seventh century the obvious answer is Christians. So the Christians were taking the land back. I guess that's your definition of a jihad. Same thing with the Eastern Christians. They were taken over by Muslims and the Crusade was to free them from Muslim rule. Again that meets your twisted definition of jihad. And how did the Muslims manage to expand from nothing in the 7th century to all the middle east, Turkey, India, etc., by being content with what they had? You're not making much sense.
Within Islamic jurisprudence Jihad is the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law, and may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, non-Islamic leaders or non-Muslim combatants, but there are other ways to perform jihad as well including civil disobedience. The primary aim of jihad is not the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam by force, but rather the expansion and defense of the Islamic state. [10][11][8]
So maybe they were expanding at that time, but not as much as the catholic church, which dwarfed the amount of expansion the muslims were doing...
Still, "Defense of the Islamic State" does not sound offensive to me.
Looks like you have bought into some muslim propaganda. Do you agree with the part where it is acceptable to declare war against an apostate? Keep in mind, you are an apostate.
No, do you agree that the christians should kill heretics and Pagans by burning them alive? Same thing.. but apparently you do agree with the inquisition ripping people tongues out who didn't confess... sounds to me like your the victim of christian propaganda...
Times are different now. Don't be too quick to judge. If they hadn't had the Inquisition you might be a Muslim now. Then you wouldn't be allowed to be atheist, you'd just be dead if you tried that.
Muslims now are the same as christians back then...
You realise I dont have a dislike for JUST the church, right? I hate all organised religion. I dont care what people believe in. I just dont like them to be organised, because organisation can cause alot of chaos and hate. Look at the westboro church and the KKK... =\ (for examples of bad guys who are religious)
No ideologies are good. Variety will always exist.
Actually, a very wise man once said... he was the 13th apostle of our lord, Jesus Christ. He was the one that wasn't mentioned because he is african american... He said, "Don't have a belief in something, belief starts wars... you should have an idea" -- Dogma
Beliefs and ideas can be just as dogmatic, and deadly.
Obviously has obviously never seen the greatest movie on spoofing religion to date.
obviously is oblivious of the obvious?
try to be more observant.
What movie would that be?
Now I'm confused... :?
Hey, wait a second. Ideas can't be dogmatic, the problem arise if you start having belief in an idea. I must've been tired yesterday...
lol... "Dogma" with jay and silent bob... It also has the two guys who wrote good will hunting in it as well...
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