Thread: The meaning of life

Objectively? None. Zero. Nada. Zip.

Lifes "meaning" is a purely subjective experience. What is the meaning of your life? Does mine have the same meaning?

Asking the meaning of life is a silly question anyway, like asking the flavor of green, or the sound of one hand clapping. Nice zen koans meant to make you think past the surface, but containing no objective "meaning" themselves.

Your life is objectively meaningless. Actually, attaching meaning to ones life is not what we are really talking about since "meaning" itself is a subjective thing. What we're really asking is what is the purpose of your life?

This is easier. None. Purpose presuposses a design. That someone or something had an intended function or outcome for your life, that there is a "goal" of sorts for your life.

Theists of course believe this. They don't know what the purpose is (to love and serve the lord and do his bidding?) but they believe it anyway.

You are a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing themselves. You are a sophistcated delivery system for the genes you carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities.

There is much physical evidence to support this conclusion (learn evolution and read the evidence for yourself) and none to support theism.

As for my own subjective purpose/meaning/goals, I have many. Be happy. Learn new things. Enjoy my family. Go backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others.

Warning: The first theist to "pity" me (which has happened many times) gets flamed, with gusto, from now until eternity, no matter where you post.

Have at it.

What is the meaning of your life?

It means that I will be able to live the way I want and do the things I can afford to do. To enjoy freedom of thought, religion, education, persuit of happiness and to enjoy life to its fullest.

You look for a meaning of life. Is there a meaning of a water slide? Dont hold your breath

to hell with meaning or purpose just enjoy what you've got.
there are plenty of people out there wasting there lives trying to find a purpose.

the idea that life has a meaning has a purpose is as crazy as the idea of God because we always keep geting bogged down in the same old question... Why.

I'm hoping water weighs in here. She explicitly asked me in another thread what meaning there was to my life.

Superluminal,

What is the meaning of life?
Objectively? None. Zero. Nada. Zip.

How can you know that?
Is not everything purely subjective?

Asking the meaning of life is a silly question anyway,

Why do you think it is "a silly question"?

Your life is objectively meaningless. Actually, attaching meaning to ones life is not what we are really talking about since "meaning" itself is a subjective thing. What we're really asking is what is the purpose of your life?

This is easier. None. Purpose presuposses a design. That someone or something had an intended function or outcome for your life, that there is a "goal" of sorts for your life.

Is there indeed no purpose to your life?
Do you see no purpose to your life?

You are a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing themselves. You are a sophistcated delivery system for the genes you carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities.

And this is what you are thinking about when you are being happy, learning new things, enjoying your your family, going backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others?

Do you think to yourself I am a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing myself. I am a sophistcated delivery system for the genes I carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities. when you are being happy, learning new things, enjoying your your family, going backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others?

water. Are you a psychologist? Why do you respond to questions 99% of the time with other questions? At least we answer your questions.

How can you know that?
Is not everything purely subjective?

I can't really, and no, I believe in the objective reality of things outside of me, and yes it's a belief since my fallible senses are all I have.

Why do you think it is "a silly question"?

I just do.

Is there indeed no purpose to your life?
Do you see no purpose to your life?

Yes, indeed there is no objective purpose to my life.

And this is what you are thinking about when you are being happy, learning new things, enjoying your your family, going backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others?

...

Do you think to yourself I am a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing myself. I am a sophistcated delivery system for the genes I carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities. when you are being happy, learning new things, enjoying your your family, going backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others?

Don't be rediculous. Do you think about the peristalsis activity of your gut and bowels on a daily basis? Or the transport of sodium and potassium across your cell membranes while composing your inane responses? Bet ya don't. But I do bet you spend the day thinking "how can I please god", making you a pretty ineffective and annoying human being. Just speculating. (ad. hom. of course. So sue me.)

Again your response is a bag of trivialities with no meaningful content (i.e. a complete waste of time).

In my rather flawed opinion, the meaning of life is to make things more complicated.

Amen sister!

The meaning of life ...

"Wherever you are, and whatever you are doing -- or not doing -- be present, and the meaning of life will start unfolding. It is tremendously blissful."

and,

"Existence is not a problem to be solved, it is a mystery to be lived."

From my main man, Osho.

Wrote a short essay about this earlier. :P

Mr U

//The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything

What is a human body? Allow me to answer that. It is a gigantic hub of individual cells, acting together in order to survive. They have been brought together under the force of self-preservation.
The very cells, however, are also consistent in this purpose. In the beginning, cells were not as complex as we see them today. Through the merger of cells, they have gotten more complex functions, which allowed them to adapt into the various lifeforms that walk, fly and swim on this earth.

That is what we hold in common with the animals. We are all composed out of cells. And, along with many other animals, our cells have specialised. They have lost their independence in order to preserve a larger being.
You see, when we are talking about self-preservation, we humans are bad. In a loop of seven years we refresh all cells, which means that after about seven years you are a completely new being.
But are we that bad? A single cell out there would die just as easily, and would probably not live 7 years. Because we are so impressive in our development of society, we have offered out cells the opportunity to live a nice and happy live, where they can enjoy the comfort of the various molecules found in caviar and champaign.
Thus, our bodies are succesful in their task. Each and every thing we do is in preservation of all of those cells. Rather amusing if you consider that you can't make out an individual cell when you look at your hand, but perhaps this is only for the best. This way, we do not loose sight of the whole, and do not become fixated on the one.

In essence, our body, as a working part is the perfect example of a utopian government. It is born out of neccesity. Without a body, the cells would not live as healthy and long as they would with it, but yet they have no individuality. No cell will ever rise up on your hand and demand to be a cell in your eyesocket because he is tired of masturbating. Nay, they are all happy with what they do and with the resources they gain in return to survive. The cell needs the government and the government needs all of the cells to operate.

The brain is believed by many to be where the body is 'controlled'. It it of course the central nervous system, which includes the spine and the brain that that controls the entire body. The spinal cord can not function without the brain, and the brain can not function without the spinal cord. Or at least, not properly. We can still function without a leg, but our survival rating (would we still be living in cruel nature) would rapidly decrease.
If the brain (meaning the whole CNS) is indeed the government that beholding it is wonderful. First of all, there is no government with that many members. So, one would expect it to be a mess. Instead however, the brain functions enormously well. You see, in the brain, there is no one minister, or no one prime minister. A whole lot of cells deal with a few functions at a time, and because of this, a group is responsible, not just one cell.
This also means that if one cell should get a nasty idea, that it is easy to replace him. Just send the guys in white (read white bloodcells) and they will remove it, hopefully.

The body viewed as a whole, however, is a totally different aspect. Suddenly, we are part of a society, and our views are completely changed. Instead of feeding to survive, we are tought that we need to work to survive, because without work, no money, and thus no food.
Now, I may be wrong, but cells do not use money. This has a clear and simple reason. Cells act from the basic understanding that all are equal. Even if a cell has survived three cancer growths, various viral attacks and a super-sized big Mac, that cell is just as important or insignificant as the next.

If one views communism as an ideal state, one will see an immediate difference. Here, there is a sense of equality, but it does not work. Why does it not work? There is a single person, a single cell calling the shots. Only if the government itself is acting commune, if there is no way for individual gain, than and only than can and will a utopia be created. If you see the body as a utopia. Remember however that each cell is taken care of, that each and every child cell will grow up with a purpose in it's life and that no single cell can get dependant on drugs.

Nevertheless, we have come quite close to the governmental system in our bodies. Why? Why have we, while we have only begun to understand the various functions of bodyparts in the last 300 years, have created a government similar to it before those inventions. Was it not Plato in his republic who shed light on a 'Utopia', which basically had the same principal as I presented above, a commune government, no individualism?

In essence, as we see it from plato as well, there is nothing wrong with heirarchy. There is no fundamental wrong behind individuality. The problem lies in responsibility. The problem lies in the corruption of power.

This is a much touched subject and has changed into a popular one-liner, but what does it mean? Well, it's meaning is simple and well understandable. People with power tend to use this power to increase their own state of being. They use their power for personal gain. The cause of this personal gain? Indeed, individualism.

As said before, our body is much like the society we live in. We are part of it as a fairly insignificant being, acting in benefit of that society with the intent of surviving, with the idea in our back mind that we could no longer survive without the whole.

Before specialising, there is a stem cell. Basically, this cell is capable of becoming whatever the body wants it to become. Perhaps you feel that this is not the case in society, but are we not too forced into finding a job. You are forced to go to school with the ideal of the Freedom of Education. In many ways, school is the specialisation of a stem cell. Before this specialisation, the stem cell is capable of acting on it's own. If put alone (with food and stuff), it will develop into a new entity. The cell from an eyesocket can no longer do this.
So, before a cell is forced into life as a 'cell', he still holds the capability of starting his own society, of surviving on his own. Basically that stem cell still has the capability to adapting to a life without a society.

Imagine that you have been working as a desk clerk for 20 years. Do you believe you could be ripped from society and be put in some alien place, and supply yourself with food and shelter, and eventually begin a society of your own? No. You have become so dependant of the society you lived in that it is (almost) impossible to adapt your life to other circumstances of life. I agree that it much depends on what kind of society you live in, but without a doubt, you will have to change your life, and you function within that society to change.
Basically, you will have to revert to a state of stem-cell, and relearn your life in order to survive.

Now for an unexpected jump in the way of thinking. Back to the beginning. How do we differ from animals. Some people will mention a soul. If I may use the most basic mention of soul, it basically means there is something non-material, that influences our body, and controls our body.

Intermission: A man once dreamt that he was a butterfly, when he woke up he wondered whether he was a butterfly dreaming it was a man.
How can the man know he is a man, not a butterfly. How can the man know the world around him is real, and not a matrix?

I am sitting in a chair. Can I prove the chair is real, can I prove that it is no part of a matrix, or that I am dreaming that I am in a chair? No. I can not prove it to be real.
Can I prove than, that I am real? Can I prove that my own body is real? No. I could be a butterfly dreaming to be a man, or this could just be my residual self image, for you matrix freaks.

What I know for certain? I am thinking, and thus something is thinking, something is. Thus, we have proven that something exists, and that this something is thinking for us. Normally, I would put this in caps, but I'll save you that, yet this is crucially important. Thus, Descartes believes, this entity that thinks is outside of this material world.
However, this is untrue, there is no real reason why the entity that thinks could not exist in this world, even if we can not prove the existence of that body. Although there is a possibility that our entity exist in some non-material plane, there is no evidence to support it.

Thus, what we do know is that we can not prove the existence of ourselves, but that if we are ever to do anything we will have to take it for granted. In any case, saying that our conscience resides somewhere on a material plane remains unproven, factual, and logical. This disproves christianity, judaism, the islam, buddhism, and hinduism. Why does it disprove it? To me, if there is no proof to support it, and it can not be deducted from what we are certain or what we consider to be logically acceptable, it simply does not exist.

Previously I discussed how our society is much like a human body. If conscience is not something magical, not something extraplanar, it has to reside in the body, and thus in the CNS. Thus, it is controlled by individual cells.

All well, considered, if we follow this logic, our entire society is, in essence, self-conscience. Before you click the quick reply button for a nasty flame, hold up. Imagine a society of about a 100 beautiful specimen of the opposite sex. Imagine that you are of a higher hierarchy and that you are in charge of this society. In this society, you are aware of the society, and you are part of this society. Thus, as part of this society, and as aware of this society, this society has become self-aware.

What does this mean? Well, this forms the fundament of a society. It forms a new universal moral: responsibility. You, as a leader of these 100 others, and part of this group of 101, are responsible for the survival of the whole group.

What does this mean? Are we part of this planet? Before saying no, remember that (according to popular believe) we have originated here, and that each and every resource in our body comes from this planet. I presume you said yes. Are we aware of the existence of planet earth? Yes we are. With this knowledge, we gain responsibility of this earth, and with this earth, essentially the whole universe. We are all, as sentient beings, responsible for this earth and for the universe.

If we are looking for a meaning of life, let it be that. Let us live our lives with responsibility towards fellow members of society. This is the ultimate, universal moral derived from science itself.

Now for another subject I have left relatively untouched. I said earlier that there is no soul, I made an attempt to prove that by disproving the logic Descartes used when he thought he was thinking of the theory on which most of the 'ghost/soul' ideas are based on. This does raise an interesting question, however. How do we differ from 'mere' animals?

Housing? Are we able to build houses and protect ourselves? Ants build advanced buildings. Beavers build them. And trust me, our housing is also quite unprotected if build in the territory of a grizzly bear.

Tools? Are we able to use tools to help ourselves in day to day task. Well, this requires a bit of logical thinking and a bit of knowledge from ancient languages. Before there were Homo Sapiens Sapiens (as we like to call ourselves), there were Homo Erectus and Homo Habilis. Now, Homo Habilis is able to use tools and craft weapons and such out of them. If it were craftmanship that got us to the top in the foodchain, the Homo Habilis could and would have been the dominant species.

Without a doubt, however, our brain is more advanced than that of the Homo Habilis. But what does this brain capacity give us? Does it allow us to build better homes or better tools? No. It allows us to communicate in an extremely powerful way: Speech. You see, an ant queen can not tell her servants that they should get blue flowers instead of yellow flowers because they are more comfortable.
We however, can. We can tell other people how we think things are done best. Along with an impressive memory that has made us what we are. From generation through generation, the way we build houses has improved and the way we craft has been improved, simply because we could relay that information to the next.

What is the implication? Well, first of all, we are animals, just like dogs, just like ants and just like beavers. We are however, smarter, better adapted creatures.

I bet you agreed to that, without even noticing the trap I laid. We are animals. We are aware of it, and we are animals. We have an obligation towards the entire group to ensure their survival for we are very much part of it, and we are the only group with the ability to see the answers to the questions they can not ask. We have to ensure that they survive. Laissez-faire can not and may not be put to use in a matter so vital to the survival of the 'animal kingdom'.

Now, I'm not saying we should revert to a state of hunters and gatherers. Hell no. What I am saying is that we should get a realistic view on nature today, and what we can do about it. Now, not environmentalist on this whole world does this. No putrifying company on this world does this. Nay, instead they tell you to deposit 5 dollars each month and they will take care of it.
Are they taking away our responsibility? NO! They are taking away our feeling of responsibility.

Does this help us. Sure, because if our children ask us, "Mom, are we going to die because of the oson layer?", we can say, "No, honey, because mommy gives 5 dollars a month to some people who buy forests in south-america."

Now, the child will probably stop asking at this point, since he believes he doesn't understand it, we are in fact ignorant to the facts. It is our responsibility to find out what is going on in the world, and I'm not saying you should travel to south-America with a camera to see what is going on, but try going to the site from WWF, and try finding what they actually do, or try emailing the main director and ask what his salary is.

No. Instead of doing the minimal to ease our hearts and that we can tell our children in honesty what we are doing with our responsibility we rather shove it to someone else so they can see what to do with it.

superluminal,

water. Are you a psychologist? Why do you respond to questions 99% of the time with other questions? At least we answer your questions.

I want to know what you think, I want to see your whole argument. This can't be done without asking some questions.
I answer your quesitons as well.

I can't really, and no, I believe in the objective reality of things outside of me, and yes it's a belief since my fallible senses are all I have.

So ... on the basis of your particular "belief" (based on your *fallible* senses) you deem yourself justified to say that some people are not intelligent, that they are delusional and such?

Yes, indeed there is no objective purpose to my life.

How can you know that, if all you have is subjectivity?

Do you think to yourself I am a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing myself. I am a sophistcated delivery system for the genes I carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities. when you are being happy, learning new things, enjoying your your family, going backpacking and kayaking as much as possible, among many others?

Don't be rediculous. Do you think about the peristalsis activity of your gut and bowels on a daily basis? Or the transport of sodium and potassium across your cell membranes while composing your inane responses?

What do YOU think then, on a daily basis, hour to hour?

(ad. hom. of course. So sue me.)
Again your response is a bag of trivialities with no meaningful content (i.e. a complete waste of time).

If you think something someone says is not worth replying to, then why do you do reply anyway?

Hey water, funny how everyone is coming to the same conclusion about you.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Hey water, funny how everyone is coming to the same conclusion about you.

Everyone?

water:

So ... on the basis of your particular "belief" (based on your *fallible* senses) you deem yourself justified to say that some people are not intelligent, that they are delusional and such?

Correction - I believe intelligence has less to do with theism than you think. A form of delusion, yes. Provably so.

Quote:
Yes, indeed there is no objective purpose to my life.

How can you know that, if all you have is subjectivity?

That's a damn fine question and one worthy of it's own thread. I believe in "consensus objectivity" (my own phrase) and think I can prove my position.

Quote:
(ad. hom. of course. So sue me.)
Again your response is a bag of trivialities with no meaningful content (i.e. a complete waste of time).

If you think something someone says is not worth replying to, then why do you do reply anyway?

You are reaching an unjustified conclusion. Your response may have been trivial, but still worth replying to. It's a way of keeping the discussion going, among other things.

The meaning of life

The questions of "meaning of life, purpose of life, the who created the universe, and what nots" are questions that have been asked since men first aquired the ability to think. Which btw was not always the case.

We evolved our consciousness from an automatic survival machenism in our brains, the voices we heard were one hemisphere of our brain communicating with the other, these voices were thought out as some sort of god, in the breakdown of the bicameral mind. The voices became confused, the chaos of the brain deteriorated and consciousness was invented by primitive men to maintain the survival of our species. However remnants of the face still are inbeded in our brain, the obvious picture of these remnants are the beliefs of supernaturalism, mysticism gods and so forth.

Questions such as the meaning of life an the what or who created the universe are used to subject the gullible to accepting assertions without any evidence of their assertions, they ask these question to make you gullible, because there are no answers to these questions. However just because we do not know now, does not mean it will ever be known, or that it need be known.

To borrow from Ayn Rand: Existence exists--and the act of grasping that statement implies two corollary axioms: that something exists which one "perceives" and that one exists possessing consciousness, consciousness being the faculty of "perceiving" that which exists.

Quotations mine.

Thus here are my answers to the so called meaning of life.

What's the meaning of life? To live it!.

What's the purpose of life? To produce, and live happily.

Who or What created the Universe?. Life just is, no one created it, nor caused it, to imply that would mean that the creator was created by another creator, and so forth in a infinite regression. So the Universe has always existed and the nature of it is what we are barely learning.

Godless

Why does anyone want to know the meaning of Life?

as i said earlier we keep geting bogged down in the question why.

why are you searching for the Answer?
Why is this the correct answer?
why can't it be another way?

good point actually. if life just is and existence just exists, WHY cant we just be?

Originally Posted by superluminal

Quote:
(ad. hom. of course. So sue me.)
Again your response is a bag of trivialities with no meaningful content (i.e. a complete waste of time).

If you think something someone says is not worth replying to, then why do you do reply anyway?

You are reaching an unjustified conclusion. Your response may have been trivial, but still worth replying to. It's a way of keeping the discussion going, among other things.

Whoa. Inciting a reputation, are we?

Originally Posted by superluminal

Your life is objectively meaningless. Actually, attaching meaning to ones life is not what we are really talking about since "meaning" itself is a subjective thing. What we're really asking is what is the purpose of your life?

Perhaps you feel that way because you're currently out of a job and on an increased dosage of Zoloft, and you and your wife agree that life as you know it has sucked the essence out of you. So how best to confront your meaningless existence but to portray someone else (me) as trivial and a waste of time and proclaim life itself without meaning?

Not as independent as you would like, eh?

Or perhaps not as creative as you'd prefer.

But at least, superluminal, every bloody word I've uttered here is not a rehash of what some else has said, or written or thought.

But you've already spotted that, haven't you?

Originally Posted by ellion

good point actually. if life just is and existence just exists, WHY cant we just be?

Because you can make such statements as you have above.

Originally Posted by ellion

good point actually. if life just is and existence just exists, WHY cant we just be?

We are just being. Some want knowledge of things which lie beyond their senses. This is why there is art, music and religion/philosophy. If we lived purely according to logic, and were completely rational, we would be bland.

Life would be meaningless.
Unfortunately some people prefer this grey dull existence.

Jan Ardena.

superluminal

Asking the meaning of life is a silly question anyway, like asking the flavor of green, or the sound of one hand clapping.

No.
Those analogies are specifically asking for gratification of the senses and with intelligence one can understand that they are non-sense, much like the rest of your post.

Asking the meaning to life is not about gratification, it is not about adding more information to what info you already have. It is the info you have but with clarity of thought and mind, it is about understanding who and what you are, how and why you fit into this situation. How you came to be, where you are destined to go. It is about asking what life is, how did/does it come about. It is about asking, is their more than what i can percieve, or is what i percieve the be-all, end-all. It is about relationships, values, emotions. It involves all aspects of knowledge, namely science, art, religion, philosophy.

Your life is objectively meaningless.

I can see why you'd think this.

This is easier. None. Purpose presuposses a design.

What if a designer exists, would you still gonna deny?
Or are you gonna hide behind this 'everything is objective" nonsense, so that you never have to believe?

Theists of course believe this. They don't know what the purpose is (to love and serve the lord and do his bidding?) but they believe it anyway.

Some theists know what the purpose is don't you think?

You are a mobile container of genetic instructions intent on reproducing themselves. You are a sophistcated delivery system for the genes you carry, with advanced self defense and survival capabilities.

A car is a big metal chasis with an engine, petrol and some electrical bits, probably not as sophisticated as the human machine (big props to the designer), but similar non the less. But the car is not alive. Is it?
In fact the car becomes animated once intelligence is their to take control, and when the intelligence is no more, the car becomes as dead as a stone.

You know, that's pretty much how we operate.

There is much physical evidence to support this conclusion (learn evolution and read the evidence for yourself) and none to support theism.

Nobody doubts evolution, Why? Because we can all experience it, we don't need harvard graduates to tell us.

The theory of evolution however, is nonsense, something designed to give people a reason to believe in some form of origin without God in the picture. It is zero (car) and God is one (intelligence). Their is no evidence to support one species turning into another, and what is classed as evidence is mere sophistry. :P

Theism does not need support as people can believe in one and zero at the same time.

Jan Ardena.

If we lived purely according to logic, and were completely rational, we would be bland.

Life would be meaningless.

For the mind that cannot fathom reality without fantasy, that is true. The rational mind, which operates on reason and rationale can fantasize anything and everything, just as well as anyone else. But it is the rational mind that does not conclude their fantasies are in any way a reality. They live their lives free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another.

The religious mind does not accept reality for what it is and must seek elsewhere for gratification - they turn to mysticism and fantasy to pander their indulgences. They aren't satisfied with a reality that can bring them the happiness they seek, but instead they lust after pie-in-the-sky ideals that seek to conquer and divide mankind, spreading hatred, fear and ignorance.

This is the meaning they wish to bring to their lives.

ad.hoc:

Perhaps you feel that way because you're currently out of a job and on an increased dosage of Zoloft, and you and your wife agree that life as you know it has sucked the essence out of you. So how best to confront your meaningless existence but to portray someone else (me) as trivial and a waste of time and proclaim life itself without meaning?

Not as independent as you would like, eh?

Or perhaps not as creative as you'd prefer.

But at least, superluminal, every bloody word I've uttered here is not a rehash of what some else has said, or written or thought.

But you've already spotted that, haven't you?

ad.hoc,

I'm not sure what I ever did to you, but fuck your sorry ass. I portrayed no person as trivial, but a simple response as such.

And, you arrogant shitwad, every bloody word you've uttered here is as much a rehash of human thought as anything else.

So, how about you try this: Lay down on the floor, get real comfortable, pull a plactic bag over your head, and tie it off at the neck. Just relax. Breathe easy. You'll feel much better.

Ignorant asswipe.

If we lived purely according to logic, and were completely rational, we would be bland.

Life would be meaningless.

Listen you condescending asshats,

We (atheists) are just as emotional, creative, and rich with life, as you are.

[Note to all those fortunate enough to be in perfect mental and physical health: The rest of us do just fine with what we have, so fuck off.]

We are just less likely to push our views on others and the rest of the world and screw it up as theists have done for millenia.

Because you can make such statements as you have above

indeed i can. but is that the reason that i have to question my existence?

Q,


I see now. I think that your understanding of faith is somewhere at Stage 1 or 2, according to Fowler http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/fowler.htm .

Also:

For the mind that cannot fathom reality without fantasy, that is true. The rational mind, which operates on reason and rationale can fantasize anything and everything, just as well as anyone else. But it is the rational mind that does not conclude their fantasies are in any way a reality.

They live their lives free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another.

Which means, according to your criteria, you are
omniscient
and
omnipotent.

The religious mind does not accept reality for what it is and must seek elsewhere for gratification - they turn to mysticism and fantasy to pander their indulgences. They aren't satisfied with a reality that can bring them the happiness they seek, but instead they lust after pie-in-the-sky ideals that seek to conquer and divide mankind, spreading hatred, fear and ignorance.

This is the meaning they wish to bring to their lives.

Why do you think they wish to bring their meaning to their lives?

You say, "They aren't satisfied with a reality that can bring them the happiness they seek" -- but apparently, this reality has not brought them happiness, or they wouldn't be seeking any further.
Or, is that you imply that the theists in fact seek misery, and this is why the "happiness that reality could bring them" cannot give them what they seek?

Originally Posted by ellion

Because you can make such statements as you have above

indeed i can. but is that the reason that i have to question my existence?

No, that is not the reason per se. That you can make such statements as you have is indicative of the ability of meta-analysis, that is, of thinking about thinking.
This is where it gets messy, and where all the self-acclaimed scientists (" ") give up and call everyone who does that delusional.

Which means, according to your criteria, you are
omniscient
and
omnipotent.

Geee! you are densed.

Just becuase you believe in the sky daddy, does that make you omnipotent or omnisicint?. No! Water. It only makes you deluded, and giving up, the reason for knowledge, everything that you don't understand, you ascribe "God did it". Thus mysticism has brought human stagnation for milleniums, It was mostly do to the US's & Britains industrial revolution, and secular governments that has finally brought us the technological wonders you yourself use today. Religion has played a major role to try and hold back human achievement, today it's stem cell research, yesteryears were space exploration, destroy the religious dogma and civilization will soar to new hights.

Yes and you will try and explain that we've already had secular governments, but these that have existed, Russia's communism, and Nazi Germany were mostly very religious people, this is why the governments were easily to overthrow religious dogma and replace with yet another dogma wich is the state. No secular free nation has ever existed, in true lazie-faire freedom on the face of the earth.

Godless

Originally Posted by Godless

Which means, according to your criteria, you are
omniscient
and
omnipotent.

Geee! you are densed.

Just becuase you believe in the sky daddy, does that make you omnipotent or omnisicint?. No! Water. It only makes you deluded, and giving up, the reason for knowledge, everything that you don't understand, you ascribe "God did it". Thus mysticism has brought human stagnation for milleniums, It was mostly do to the US's & Britains industrial revolution, and secular governments that has finally brought us the technological wonders you yourself use today. Religion has played a major role to try and hold back human achievement, today it's stem cell research, yesteryears were space exploration, destroy the religious dogma and civilization will soar to new hights.

Yes and you will try and explain that we've already had secular governments, but these that have existed, Russia's communism, and Nazi Germany were mostly very religious people, this is why the governments were easily to overthrow religious dogma and replace with yet another dogma wich is the state. No secular free nation has ever existed, in true lazie-faire freedom on the face of the earth.

Godless

Sheesh, you do have a lot of spunk to get rid of!

Which means, according to your criteria, you are
omniscient
and
omnipotent.

I have no idea what you're talking about. How did you come to that conclusion?

but apparently, this reality has not brought them happiness, or they wouldn't be seeking any further.

Do they seek more than what reality can offer? If so, they must rely on fantasy to achieve that happiness, and that is exactly what they do.

Sheesh, you do have a lot of spunk to get rid of!

And WTH is that suppose to mean?

I'm only saying it like I see it water, which is better than being dellusional.

A fundamental issue that has kept religion and the clinical fields in relatively separate compartments is the concern among clinicians that religiosity can be associated with a variety of mental disorders, especially schizophrenia. Many of the symptoms associated with acute schizophrenia and schizotypal personality disorder, such as delusion and hallucinations, are often expressed in religious form (Smith, 1982).

REF. http://www.clam.rutgers.edu/~mbecktel/becktel.htm

Believing oneself to be perfect is often the sign of a delusional mind.
-Data, to Borg Queen, Star Trek: First Contact

Take the hint above water, atheist don't think of themselves as omniscient nor omnipotent. Fact is we think that no entity can exist that is omnipotent or omnisicient this would be a contradiction of metaphisics. And acording to Data god would be delusional. :wink:

Godless

Water are you naturally delusional or are you just gifted?

why do you want to know the meaning of life?
you go on and on about God but what answers has he given you that can beyond a reasonable doubt be true?

Originally Posted by (Q)

Which means, according to your criteria, you are
omniscient
and
omnipotent.

I have no idea what you're talking about. How did you come to that conclusion?

Thus:

For the mind that cannot fathom reality without fantasy, that is true. The rational mind, which operates on reason and rationale can fantasize anything and everything, just as well as anyone else. But it is the rational mind that does not conclude their fantasies are in any way a reality.

They live their lives free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another.

To live free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another, takes that one be all-powerful and all-knowing (at least that).

Are you indifferent upon meeting a rabid dog, being diagnosed with leukemia, losing your job, being robbed, raped, having terrorists bomb your town etc. -- all those things that happen to people on a daily basis?
Granted, not all those things happen at once, but we have our challenges to meet every day, challenges of all kinds.

Do they seek more than what reality can offer? If so, they must rely on fantasy to achieve that happiness, and that is exactly what they do.

But this way, anything that is more than what one presently has, is a fantasy.

Is it a fantasy if I prepare for an exam, in the hopes to pass it?



Also, Sci is back. In the Philosophy section, there is a thread on what is reality, I would like you to take your position there.

Is it a fantasy if I prepare for an exam, in the hopes to pass it?

In your case it would be, seems you have a problem with reading comprehension!.

Ad hominem of course but that one was just called for.

Godless

To live free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another, takes that one be all-powerful and all-knowing (at least that).

That is complete horsepucky and you know it. Theist live in ignorance and fear, that is a fact. They do not live in harmony with one another, that is also a fact. What planet are you on?

Are you indifferent upon meeting a rabid dog, being diagnosed with leukemia, losing your job, being robbed, raped, having terrorists bomb your town etc. -- all those things that happen to people on a daily basis?

Notice that you admit those things happen every day yet you still believe in gods?

Granted, not all those things happen at once, but we have our challenges to meet every day, challenges of all kinds.

So what? Do you have a point to your ramblings?

Is it a fantasy if I prepare for an exam, in the hopes to pass it?

In your case, absolutely.

Also, Sci is back. In the Philosophy section, there is a thread on what is reality, I would like you to take your position there.

I already know what reality is - you live in fantasy world and cannot possibly grasp the concept of reality. Why bother?

Q,

To live free of ignorance and fear, and in harmony with one another, takes that one be all-powerful and all-knowing (at least that).

That is complete horsepucky and you know it. Theist live in ignorance and fear, that is a fact. They do not live in harmony with one another, that is also a fact. What planet are you on?

Don't derail.
Can someone be free of ignorance and fear? What does it take to be free of ignorance and fear?
Per definition, to be free of ignorance is to be all-knowing ...
And free of fear one can be if one is stronger than anyone or anything else (which means to be all-powerful).

Are you indifferent upon meeting a rabid dog, being diagnosed with leukemia, losing your job, being robbed, raped, having terrorists bomb your town etc. -- all those things that happen to people on a daily basis?

Notice that you admit those things happen every day yet you still believe in gods?

So you assume that if God existed, then the world would be good?
But because bad things happen, it cannot be that God exists, and if He does, then He must be evil for allowing bad things to happen?

I already know what reality is - you live in fantasy world and cannot possibly grasp the concept of reality. Why bother?

Why are you talking to me, Q?

Originally Posted by superluminal

Ignorant asswipe.

That more or less explains it. And confirms my suspicions. Thanx, superfootinthemouth.

That more or less explains it. And confirms my suspicions. Thanx, superfootinthemouth.

Glad to help shitwad.

Superlumunal

The popes church answers that with the 'Mother and Child' promotion.

This is what all creatures in nature do.

So thank your Mother and enjoy yourself with the beauty of natures Sunsets, rainbows, colorful birds and fish and the wonders of all the different creatures that Nature has created.

BTW, my religion is Nature and the multiple god system.

Cosmo

This is an ooooold thread...

necrotic thread that died YEARS ago...