Notices
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Will the definition of good and evil exist in the future?

  1. #1 Will the definition of good and evil exist in the future? 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    The thought hit me, if the world one day was entirely atheist and everyone no longer believed in God, would the definiton of good and evil stille exist? Would a world free of religious fanatiscm that once existed now destroyed in this future mean that good and evil are banisihed? Would good just be a commonplace of normailty? Or is this too optimistic?

    I think the first principle that needs to be layed down here is that is this world able to live without evil, do we need the yang to balance the yin?


    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    935
    Why would good or evil go anywhere?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Why would good or evil go anywhere?
    Religion is based on those two and those two seem to be at the pitfall of security and threat, which is still existent in our survival even in this day in age, would the removal of religion remove the constant performances we carry out daily to survive? Would a world free of religion mean that there would no longer be the type of evil atheists define-the defintion being that religion is the cause of most problems in this world. Without it would you even have good or evil given your own views?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Guest
    Wow, word salad much? Try again. This time without the rambling and stupidity.

    But to answer the original question, yes it would. It would simply be less black and white than religions version.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    935
    I think there would still be good and evil. I certainly don't blame religion for all of the evil acts in the world but I find it impossible to deny that religion is the bedrock for a lot of them. (Maybe the majority, maybe not, I have no idea. But examples are abundant of religiously motivated "evils".)
    Some of these evils done in the name of religion still would have been done, just in the name of something else. Political leaders use religion as a tool to control and empassion people and without religion another tool would have been found.
    Religion just makes a really, really good tool because in the name of religion, rational people will act irrationally(Let's fly airplanes into buildings. It's the GOOD thing to do). It's like that study where children are told a story from the Bible and then asked about the morality of the partipants. The same story, with names changed, are told to a different group of children and they're also asked. The children who knew it was a story from the Bible called kings/conquerors who performed otherwise "evil" deeds morally right/justified while the kids who just read the story not knowing it's from the Bible judged the deeds in a much harsher light.
    Atheists still have compassion, kindness, and the desire to help others as well as greed, selfishness and apathy. I don't think anything would happen to good and evil we'd just see it in a slightly different context at times.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    Religion is based on those two
    It is the other way round. Good and evil are religious concepts and have no meaning in reality. One mans good is another mans evil. A vying for the top slotted set of Golden Rules.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Wow, word salad much? Try again. This time without the rambling and stupidity.

    But to answer the original question, yes it would. It would simply be less black and white than religions version.
    So in your opinion because of a more grey area would the world be a better place?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    Religion is based on those two
    It is the other way round. Good and evil are religious concepts and have no meaning in reality. One mans good is another mans evil. A vying for the top slotted set of Golden Rules.
    So is the man that mass murders a good or a bad person? Is that not reality? I don't see what you are conveying here (Q).
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I don't see what you are conveying here (Q).
    It's very simple. Read my post. Good and evil are religious concepts. They have no meaning, whatsoever.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I don't see what you are conveying here (Q).
    It's very simple. Read my post. Good and evil are religious concepts. They have no meaning, whatsoever.
    Good and bad are they religious concepts?

    Is a murderer a good or a bad person from and atheist point of view? Your avoiding the question again like you did SPT.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Good and bad are they religious concepts?

    Is a murderer a good or a bad person from and atheist point of view? Your avoiding the question again like you did SPT.
    That is where you and SPT are delirious. Questions were answered, however it is you and he/she who ignore or simply don't understand them.

    Perhaps, you can answer your own question.

    Is a suicide bomber good or evil?

    To a Muslim extremist, he is good. To you, he is evil.

    Now, do you get it?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    I don't find it so simple. Why are good and evil religious concepts? You cannot prove this assertion by mere example.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Senior TvEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Good and bad are they religious concepts?
    Good and EVIL are definately religious concepts. Right and wrong are not. I've heard the argument before, that religion exists to provide a moral framework and without it, the whole world would fall apart.

    I disagree with that completely. I have very a strong moral code.

    Theists have an excuse: Evil led me astray. The devil tempted me. If you have no belief in the devil, then you have absolutely no excuse. You are solely responsible for your own actions. There's no devil to blame.

    The fact is, I don't need the threat of hell to stop myself from harming someone. I don't need the promise of heaven to make helping others worth my while. It is simply my nature to love others. I wouldn't suppose this applies universally, but I'm willing to give humanity the benefit of the doubt.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Good and bad are they religious concepts?
    Good and EVIL are definately religious concepts. Right and wrong are not. I've heard the argument before, that religion exists to provide a moral framework and without it, the whole world would fall apart.

    I disagree with that completely. I have very a strong moral code.

    Theists have an excuse: Evil led me astray. The devil tempted me. If you have no belief in the devil, then you have absolutely no excuse. You are solely responsible for your own actions. There's no devil to blame.

    The fact is, I don't need the threat of hell to stop myself from harming someone. I don't need the promise of heaven to make helping others worth my while. It is simply my nature to love others. I wouldn't suppose this applies universally, but I'm willing to give humanity the benefit of the doubt.
    I neither need the threat of hell to stop me doing wrong. I do what is right because I know what is right, Jesus told us what is right and so do our parents.

    Don't look at the stereotypical view of theists TvEye when this or other topics arise, we are all not like that, I don't stereotype you with other atheists such as (Q) or paralith or Jeremy because I have a higher respect for you. Because I see you are right in your assertions and right to challenge them where others may insult them.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    I don't find it so simple. Why are good and evil religious concepts? You cannot prove this assertion by mere example.
    You can provide any example you wish, as an event already having occurred or one you may wish to imagine. The results will be the same.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    I don't find it so simple. Why are good and evil religious concepts? You cannot prove this assertion by mere example.
    You can provide any example you wish, as an event already having occurred or one you may wish to imagine. The results will be the same.
    Good and evil is relative to right and wrong, depends on the observor.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    Good and evil is relative to right and wrong, depends on the observor.

    That is why the terms 'good' and 'evil' are meaningless. They have nothing to do with what is right or wrong.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    Okay, it looks like we all need to explain what we mean by "good and evil" and "right and wrong", because it's evident that we don't agree.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    Okay, it looks like we all need to explain what we mean by "good and evil" and "right and wrong", because it's evident that we don't agree.
    What is it that you don't agree, exactly?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Senior TvEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I neither need the threat of hell to stop me doing wrong. I do what is right because I know what is right, Jesus told us what is right and so do our parents.
    This is essentially what I'm getting at. I don't think the concept of right and wrong would die in an atheist society. Society would still impose its own views.

    As you said, you "know what is right". I like to think that there are certain things which are just natural to know whether they are right or wrong. I may be mistaken, but, as I said, I prefer to give humanity the benefit of the doubt.

    Even if I am wrong there, though, parents will still impress concepts of right and wrong on their children. I severely doubt that an atheist society would - simply by being atheist - not teach their children that you don't rape and murder.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    I would use "good and evil" and "right and wrong" to be fairly similar dichotomies. Due to this, I find it difficult to disentangle them in my head. However, I would broadly say "good and evil" refer to aspects of character and intent, while "right and wrong" refer to aspects of action and judgment. But both, in the end, are informed by the morals and ethics of the person or persons making the value judgment.

    How do we disagree? You say that one is meaningless and suggest that the other isn't, which is at odds with my view that both, to some degree, mean the same thing.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    927
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I don't see what you are conveying here (Q).
    It's very simple. Read my post. Good and evil are religious concepts. They have no meaning, whatsoever.
    Good and bad are they religious concepts?

    Is a murderer a good or a bad person from and atheist point of view? Your avoiding the question again like you did SPT.
    to answer your question: that depends on who or what he murdered.
    is a man who murdered someone on a killing spree a good or bad person?

    is a murderer who saw that his actions caused grief, and decided instead to devout his life to helping people an evil person?

    is a man who murdered someone based on the belief that the person in question was about to kill him, but later found out he was mistaken, a bad person?

    answer: no. they're all in a moral grey area, just like everyone else on this planet.
    theres no action you can perform, that transmits to the extremes of either absolute good or evil.

    there, i answered your question. now i'll ask you to disprove my views, by giving me a definition of absolute evil, and absolute good.
    in response, i'll give you a definition of how that "evil" or "good" can seem the opposite to another person.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •