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  1. #1 A well written article, i thought i'd post 
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Maybe i shouldn't be another link poster, but this article looking at the belief system of christianity

    http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/...nt.php?num=280


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    Your point?

    What I find funny is that even though Dawkins is atheist, why did he spend such a long time writing on how belief in God is a delusion. If he doesn't care about it why spend such a long time writing on it? Thats like me writing why atheism is a delusion and spending ages writing it. I don't care about atheism so why in the hell should I spend precious seconds of my time ranting on about it? Oh look I just am.
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    if it was merely the fact that god is a delusion, then no, it wouldn't be worth writing a book about
    on the other hand, if the consequences of other people believing in god affect your life and what you can/can't do, then it makes perfect sense to write your thoughts on the subject down
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Your point?

    What I find funny is that even though Dawkins is atheist, why did he spend such a long time writing on how belief in God is a delusion. If he doesn't care about it why spend such a long time writing on it? Thats like me writing why atheism is a delusion and spending ages writing it. I don't care about atheism so why in the hell should I spend precious seconds of my time ranting on about it? Oh look I just am.
    svwillmer, do you like spewing nonsense? A majority of nonbelievers vocally oppose religion because of the damage it's doing in present day. A lot of us are so fed up with stupidity we hinge on writing books to help combat it. Some of us do.

    If religion wasn't so violently opposed to real education, perhaps we wouldn't need to. Since the believers would then adopt a more sensible theology.

    And the claim that he doesn't care is absurd. We ALL care. If we didn't we'd probably not be here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Your point?

    What I find funny is that even though Dawkins is atheist, why did he spend such a long time writing on how belief in God is a delusion. If he doesn't care about it why spend such a long time writing on it? Thats like me writing why atheism is a delusion and spending ages writing it. I don't care about atheism so why in the hell should I spend precious seconds of my time ranting on about it? Oh look I just am.
    svwillmer, do you like spewing nonsense? A majority of nonbelievers vocally oppose religion because of the damage it's doing in present day. A lot of us are so fed up with stupidity we hinge on writing books to help combat it. Some of us do.

    If religion wasn't so violently opposed to real education, perhaps we wouldn't need to. Since the believers would then adopt a more sensible theology.

    And the claim that he doesn't care is absurd. We ALL care. If we didn't we'd probably not be here.
    So books Dawkins writes and others is a way of attacking religion in a way that may avoid direct confrontation? Is that it?

    Spewing nonsense? I thought I made a valid point. If you can't appreciate it then kindly do one. Thanks.

    marnixR was democratic in discussion here, where you have been dictatorial-again. Yanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    So books Dawkins writes and others is a way of attacking religion in a way that may avoid direct confrontation? Is that it?
    lolwut? They are directly confronting it, only on mass scales. Unless you have something else in mind for those words.

    Spewing nonsense? I thought I made a valid point. If you can't appreciate it then kindly do one. Thanks.

    marnixR was democratic in discussion here, where you have been dictatorial-again. Yanks.
    I'm not democratic with facts. Facts aren't democratic, nor up for discussion. So you could say facts are a dictatorship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    So books Dawkins writes and others is a way of attacking religion in a way that may avoid direct confrontation? Is that it?
    lolwut? They are directly confronting it, only on mass scales. Unless you have something else in mind for those words.

    Spewing nonsense? I thought I made a valid point. If you can't appreciate it then kindly do one. Thanks.

    marnixR was democratic in discussion here, where you have been dictatorial-again. Yanks.
    I'm not democratic with facts. Facts aren't democratic, nor up for discussion. So you could say facts are a dictatorship.
    Stalin was being honest
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    I agree that in many cases religion is the enemy. It doesn't surprise me that athiests would have a skewed and misunderstood view of scriptiure when most of the people who claim christianity also have a skewed and misunderstood view of scripture.

    The problem with catholocism, which seems to be the target of many of these types of articles and debates, is that they openly admit they serve the church and while they would be reluctant to admit this it doesn't change the truth, they serve the church at the expense of serving God. Catholocism is easy to debate against because they have gotten so far from scruotural truth.

    Different people interpret data in different ways. They interpret data and with their information form facts. But if someone else disagrees the "fact" they conclude is different. Fact is subjective. Data is truth. (just a thought).
    If we disagree then you must be right...
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    Quote Originally Posted by couldbewrong
    I agree that in many cases religion is the enemy. It doesn't surprise me that athiests would have a skewed and misunderstood view of scriptiure when most of the people who claim christianity also have a skewed and misunderstood view of scripture.

    The problem with catholocism, which seems to be the target of many of these types of articles and debates, is that they openly admit they serve the church and while they would be reluctant to admit this it doesn't change the truth, they serve the church at the expense of serving God. Catholocism is easy to debate against because they have gotten so far from scruotural truth.

    Different people interpret data in different ways. They interpret data and with their information form facts. But if someone else disagrees the "fact" they conclude is different. Fact is subjective. Data is truth. (just a thought).
    What is catholocism anyway?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    If religion wasn't so violently opposed to real education, perhaps we wouldn't need to. Since the believers would then adopt a more sensible theology.
    In the UK some of the best schools are single faith schools, especially ROman Catholic, but also some Churhc of England. They provide excellent education, to a high standard, with excellent pass rates. They have no problem including evolution in their teaching scheme.
    Can you explain where the opposition of religion to real education emerges from this?
    Sometimes the anti-religious arguments on this forum sound like a broken record of someone trapped in terminal dogmatism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    In the UK some of the best schools are single faith schools, especially ROman Catholic, but also some Churhc of England. They provide excellent education, to a high standard, with excellent pass rates. They have no problem including evolution in their teaching scheme.
    Can you explain where the opposition of religion to real education emerges from this?
    I'm well aware that in numerous places Catholic schools are the best. Some may be the best in the world. But the problem is not our schools (at least in this matter), it's those raising the children and the church itself. The school may teach it, but their theology rejects it. This is how, regardless of being taught in any school, a good portion of them deny scientific facts like any dating method that dates prior to 7000 years.

    An even worse problem are the parents themselves. A good majority of parents are responsible for ignorance and dogmatism. A student might learn in school about carbon dating, but because of parental "coaching" they'll turn right around and deny its accuracy in an argument. TESTS do not show what students really believe. Merely what they've memorized.

    Sometimes the anti-religious arguments on this forum sound like a broken record of someone trapped in terminal dogmatism.
    I, sir, take umbrage. None of my arguments against religion are broken records. I've thought out a good portion of them, and because of that few of them have been wrong. I base this argument on what I've learned, not what I wish to believe.

    I am, however, very pleased to know that evolution is slowly being accepted more and more. I've seen statistics and comparisons that prove this. I don't deny that it's changing, but the fact is the majority still deny the process.
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  14. #13 Re: A well written article, i thought i'd post 
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Maybe i shouldn't be another link poster,
    Sorry, you are in fact another link poster, and your atheistic proselytizing is equally as annoying as the spam of the Muslim variety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy
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    Amen, Brother Jeremy. Testify!
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    Yes, so the very rare article link that shows a capable writer describing various problems with criticism is equal in rank to the mouth-frothing dogmatic and illogical links posted near daily.

    You, Harold, need to be castrated so you can't reproduce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Yes, so the very rare article link that shows a capable writer describing various problems with criticism is equal in rank to the mouth-frothing dogmatic and illogical links posted near daily.
    Nope, nothing new here that hasn't been discussed a dozen times before on The Science Forum. Maybe its time to start another thread about the flying spaghetti monster or the teapot orbiting the sun. We haven't had one of those for a couple of days now.
    You, Harold, need to be castrated so you can't reproduce.
    Nice!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Nope, nothing new here that hasn't been discussed a dozen times before on The Science Forum. Maybe its time to start another thread about the flying spaghetti monster or the teapot orbiting the sun. We haven't had one of those for a couple of days now.
    Oh really? Discussed in its very own thread? Or in individual posts? There is a major difference there. Especially when comparing short concise links to something copypasta you see from theists on the forum.

    In my ENTIRE time here, I've only seen TWO threads on the flying spaghetti monster. Perhaps you prefer your own delusion over accuracy, but the amount of atheistic threads are VERY small in comparison to religion ones.

    Furthermore, the topic the link itself discusses is not one that has been discussed before. He's rebuking various arguments made against the more popular atheists, and showing how obviously incorrect they are. Out of all threads made, I can only recall three being made about dawkins. Two of which were ATTACKING him.

    One point which hasn't been brought up in this forum is the theological argument. "You haven't studied it enough". This is generally because our posters, ignorant as some are, aren't THAT stupid. This link is simply that. A link. A link to which exists an argument very rarely seen on this forum.
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    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Ooh a couple of replys, harold the pro athiestic posts(and link posting ones) are actually a small percentage to the huge amounts of religious ones on here

    Im 100% athiest and i keep seeing certain members saying that why is so much written by athiests as if athiests dont care about religion, as been said, even athiests cant get away from the dogma of religion and it does affect us all, i definetely take notice of a vast percentage of people who are so willing to accept these storys blindly

    It does impact on education on every child to some degree, with some in america its seen in the pressures to put ID into classrooms, in certain islamic countries it affects the minds of children(with respect to anything non islamic) to a massive degree which affects us globally, even in the UK at best its taking a percentage of my childs education which could be better spend on something factual and useful

    As for the anti-religious argument sounding like a broken record, surely thats the pot calling the kettle black, if the last years religious preaching threads are anything to go on. How many more miracles of the koran will we go through?

    I for one am pleased with what seems to be a snoball affect with athiesm in certain areas and the "out campaign" is another positive way forward, especially in a country like the US

    I find the issue of an american athiest president being unlikely quite amusing, when you look at the past comments of some of the "greats", i couldn't imagine an athiest running for presedency in this day and age daring to publically say half of this, for fear of losing votes

    I know, i know, more c&p But Ive kept this to US presidents, and left out the other well repected(but not commonly known) athiests of american history, Frankin, grant, edison, Paine etc etc

    Jefferson

    "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
    "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
    "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

    Madison

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
    Adams

    "Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
    Lincoln

    "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

    Washington


    “Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.”
    Roosevelt

    “I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be nonsectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools.”
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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    are any of those presidents listed any more of an american citizen than I am?
    If we disagree then you must be right...
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    The funny part is that a good portion of them were NOT atheist. Merely were intelligent enough to know that religion should have NO part in politics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    In my ENTIRE time here, I've only seen TWO threads on the flying spaghetti monster. Perhaps you prefer your own delusion over accuracy, but the amount of atheistic threads are VERY small in comparison to religion ones.
    They may not start out that way but that's the way they all seem to end up.
    Out of all threads made, I can only recall three being made about dawkins. Two of which were ATTACKING him.
    Hmm, I never knew about the teapot before I joined the forum but now I know all about it. Wonder where I learned that. Then there are all the endless variations.
    This link is simply that. A link.
    But Caveman tricked me into reading it with the false claim that it was well written. Hence why it was equally annoying.
    A link to which exists an argument very rarely seen on this forum.
    Amen, brother Jeremy. It's WAY different. (yawn)
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Ooh a couple of replys, harold the pro athiestic posts(and link posting ones) are actually a small percentage to the huge amounts of religious ones on here

    Im 100% athiest and i keep seeing certain members saying that why is so much written by athiests as if athiests dont care about religion, as been said, even athiests cant get away from the dogma of religion and it does affect us all, i definetely take notice of a vast percentage of people who are so willing to accept these storys blindly

    It does impact on education on every child to some degree, with some in america its seen in the pressures to put ID into classrooms, in certain islamic countries it affects the minds of children(with respect to anything non islamic) to a massive degree which affects us globally, even in the UK at best its taking a percentage of my childs education which could be better spend on something factual and useful

    As for the anti-religious argument sounding like a broken record, surely thats the pot calling the kettle black, if the last years religious preaching threads are anything to go on. How many more miracles of the koran will we go through?

    I for one am pleased with what seems to be a snoball affect with athiesm in certain areas and the "out campaign" is another positive way forward, especially in a country like the US

    I find the issue of an american athiest president being unlikely quite amusing, when you look at the past comments of some of the "greats", i couldn't imagine an athiest running for presedency in this day and age daring to publically say half of this, for fear of losing votes

    I know, i know, more c&p But Ive kept this to US presidents, and left out the other well repected(but not commonly known) athiests of american history, Frankin, grant, edison, Paine etc etc

    Jefferson

    "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
    "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
    "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

    Madison

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
    Adams

    "Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
    Lincoln

    "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

    Washington


    “Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.”
    Roosevelt

    “I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be nonsectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools.”
    Yea and all these guys were either forgotten or shot. Nuff said.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Harold, you're a troll.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Ooh a couple of replys, harold the pro athiestic posts(and link posting ones) are actually a small percentage to the huge amounts of religious ones on here

    Im 100% athiest and i keep seeing certain members saying that why is so much written by athiests as if athiests dont care about religion, as been said, even athiests cant get away from the dogma of religion and it does affect us all, i definetely take notice of a vast percentage of people who are so willing to accept these storys blindly

    It does impact on education on every child to some degree, with some in america its seen in the pressures to put ID into classrooms, in certain islamic countries it affects the minds of children(with respect to anything non islamic) to a massive degree which affects us globally, even in the UK at best its taking a percentage of my childs education which could be better spend on something factual and useful

    As for the anti-religious argument sounding like a broken record, surely thats the pot calling the kettle black, if the last years religious preaching threads are anything to go on. How many more miracles of the koran will we go through?

    I for one am pleased with what seems to be a snoball affect with athiesm in certain areas and the "out campaign" is another positive way forward, especially in a country like the US

    I find the issue of an american athiest president being unlikely quite amusing, when you look at the past comments of some of the "greats", i couldn't imagine an athiest running for presedency in this day and age daring to publically say half of this, for fear of losing votes

    I know, i know, more c&p But Ive kept this to US presidents, and left out the other well repected(but not commonly known) athiests of american history, Frankin, grant, edison, Paine etc etc

    Jefferson

    "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
    "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
    "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

    Madison

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
    Adams

    "Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
    Lincoln

    "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

    Washington


    “Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.”
    Roosevelt

    “I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be nonsectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools.”
    Yea and all these guys were either forgotten or shot. Nuff said.

    Your point being what? I just put those quotes in, because of something i read about athiests(or agnostics) running for presedency have to supress their real opinions of religion, if they have any chance of being elected
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  25. #24  
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    Funnily enough When their opinions came out they were shot
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    as been said, even athiests cant get away from the dogma of religion and it does affect us all, i definetely take notice of a vast percentage of people who are so willing to accept these storys blindly.
    It does impact on education on every child to some degree, with some in america its seen in the pressures to put ID into classrooms, in certain islamic countries it affects the minds of children(with respect to anything non islamic) to a massive degree which affects us globally, even in the UK at best its taking a percentage of my childs education which could be better spend on something factual and useful
    Amen, preach it Brother Caveman.

    As for the anti-religious argument sounding like a broken record, surely thats the pot calling the kettle black,
    No, it's more like the mixing bowl calling both the pot and the kettle black, as I have never preached anything.
    I find the issue of an american athiest president being unlikely quite amusing, when you look at the past comments of some of the "greats", ....<blah, blah>
    Does this have anything to do with the foregoing discussion or is it just another opportunity for you to preach your views? The sermon was a little dry. Maybe we ought to sing a hymn. Turn to page 10 of your hymnal and we'll all sing "Imagine" by John Lennon. Maybe that will get the juices flowing.
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    Harold has a mind like a stone rubix cube. Even when you solve it, it's still a block.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Harold has a mind like a stone rubix cube. Even when you solve it, it's still a block.
    As opposed to your face-binary. We have to understand that before we can even recognise you
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Harold has a mind like a stone rubix cube. Even when you solve it, it's still a block.
    As opposed to your face-binary. We have to understand that before we can even recognise you
    Precisely. 8)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Harold has a mind like a stone rubix cube. Even when you solve it, it's still a block.
    As opposed to your face-binary. We have to understand that before we can even recognise you
    Precisely. 8)
    I don't know whats worse, my refreshing or your refreshing
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    That's easy. My boredom. 8)
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