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Thread: A Soul's Dilemma?

  1. #1 A Soul's Dilemma? 
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Believers will most likely deny they worry about the accuracy of their chosen religion and it may not matter much during life on Earth but let's suppose the unthinkable happens after you die. After death you discover that you do have a soul and you apparently are in heaven but all is not as you expected....

    Scenario 1: A Christian dies and his/her soul passes thru the gates of heaven. Once there it is quite obvious that Muslims were more or less correct. In order to stay there, would you convert to Islam immediately or be suspicious that something is wrong, as if the devil himself was playing tricks on you?

    Scenario 2: A male Muslim dies and his soul goes to heaven and from the first moment, his soul determines that the Islamic religion appears to have been the correct choice. The soul asks for and is granted a meeting with Allah. When Allah confronts the soul it is then it realizes Allah is a she. His soul also observes that the souls of females are given preferential treatment in heaven. If this was your soul would you believe you are in the right place? Would you suspect the devil also?

    Scenario 3: An atheist dies and like the other 2 scenarios their soul ends up in heaven. To stay there would you convert if asked, would you accept God as a female or would you suspect it's the devil's handiwork?

    My own personal opinion is that a soul would do anything to stay there. Notwithstanding, devout souls may see it as evil in disguise or as a final test before God. I'm not sure if an atheist's soul would suspect any malevolence.


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    You didn't ask what an agnostic would do. This agnostic (in any of the scenarios) would ask 'where are the hidden cameras?'


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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    You didn't ask what an agnostic would do. This agnostic (in any of the scenarios) would ask 'where are the hidden cameras?'
    The agnostic might not be sure if he is dead or in a coma.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    as a materialistic atheist, i don't believe there's such a thing as a soul
    so where does that leave me ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    The agnostic might not be sure if he is dead or in a coma.
    That's pretty much how I feel most days.
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    The mere fact that god can be male or female, would invoke some pause. Why would he be either? Did he evolve on some other planet? To take it further, why would he/she/it have limbs or other physical traits at all, assuming he/she/it is not simply an ancient alien? The same goes for demons having rows of teeth. So they eat what exactly?

    I'd suspect drugs or the demise of my sanity.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  8. #7 Re: A Soul's Dilemma? 
    Forum Masters Degree geezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    My own personal opinion is that a soul would do anything to stay there. Notwithstanding, devout souls may see it as evil in disguise or as a final test before God. I'm not sure if an atheist's soul would suspect any malevolence.
    if god is as wise as the thiests make out then he would see through any deception, so doing anything to stay just wouldn't work. Anyway arn't you judged on your works, so you would not need to convert.
    isn't there supposed to be a connection between souls and god, could it be that the soul would know, if it were god or the devil automatically.

    read this if you haven't already, it's fun if nothng else.

    an atheist on judgement day


    The line seemed to stretch back forever. Hundreds of millions of souls, waiting patiently for their turn before the throne. The date... Well, the day is Judgment Day, so you won't find it on any calendar. The queue of people winds its way down the mountain, through the valley and off into the far distance. Everybody in the queue can see the final destination at the mountain peak. A hundred miles away, they can see it perfectly clearly. And they wait, moving forward a couple of steps at a time. Towards God, and the Decision.
    At the head of the line we find a young Christian, wearing an expression of awe and joy. Behind him, an atheist, looking slightly astonished, examining a leaf she has picked from a nearby bush, trying to decide if it is real or not. Heaven, she thinks, should be whiter, with more dry ice swirling about; not look like a Welsh hillside on a hot day.
    The Christian steps forward for judgment.
    "Hello Martin". God's voice is calm and gentle as He speaks.
    "Erm.. Hello. Lord". Martin's voice is nervous, as a dozen emotions fight for room in his mind at once.
    "This is it. This is where I decide what shall happen to you, Martin. In life, you were a Christian". It was a statement, not a question.
    "I was, Lord. I still am. I have been all my life. I have dedicated myself to your service."
    "Tell me, Martin. Why were you a Christian? Why did you believe in me?"
    "Why? Well... Because you are God! I've always believed in you."
    "That is not what I want to know. Why did you believe?"
    "Because I knew it was true. You were always there for me. You helped me through the bad times. You answered my prayers. You gave me the strength and courage to get through life. I could feel your presence with me all the time."
    "No."
    "Pardon, Lord?"
    "I said no, Martin. I have never helped you. You seemed to be doing perfectly alright by yourself. I heard your prayers, but never answered a single one. Your belief in me definitely helped you on occasion, but I have never intervened in your life. Certainly, you gave me credit for all the good times, but they were your own doing, not mine. You did not feel my presence, because it cannot be felt. The only actual proof you have that I exist at all is here and now. Again, tell me why you believed."
    "I.. I had faith, Lord. Since I was a child I have been to church, prayed and sang every Sunday. My faith in you never wavered. Even when my mother died, I had faith that it was your will, that it was a blessing from you that she passed peacefully. I was raised to believe in you, and as I grew I read the Bible for myself, and learnt of your miracles, and all the saints and martyrs, and the good done in your name. I read the works of great philosophers and they merely strengthened my faith. I knew it was true. "
    "No, Martin. Your mother died of natural causes, and she died peacefully because of the actions of the hospital. I watched and saw, but that is all. As for the rest - the saints, martyrs and philosophers had similar reasons for their belief in me, just as dictators and murderers have had. People have done great good and great harm in my name, and in the names of a thousand false gods. The Bible was written about me, not by me, and was written by people who had similar reasons as you for their belief, just as a thousand other Holy Books have been written about the false gods, or different versions of myself. I ask for the third and final time. Why did you believe in me?"
    Martin looked shocked and ashen, but pulled himself together. His Lord was testing him, and he had lived his entire life for this moment.
    "I believed because I could feel in my heart it was true. You sent your son to die for us, and I gladly accepted Him as my saviour. I.. I just knew it was true, and now that I see you, my faith has been vindicated. I no longer need to believe - I can see for myself the truth and majesty of my religion."
    Quietly, God spoke again. "Martin, you have impressed me". He paused.
    "But... not enough. You believe because you were taught to believe. You believe because you mistakenly attribute to me anything positive that has happened in your life, and discount anything negative. You believe because it is comforting to believe, and because you are frightened of the consequences of my not existing. You believe because... you believe. I'm sorry, Martin, but there is no place for you here."
    God briefly with his fingers, and Martin vanished. His shadow lingered where he had stood, fading rapidly to nothingness.
    The atheist, somewhat shaken by what she had just seen, stepped forward.
    "Hello Eve. I like that name."
    "Ah. Hello, God. Thanks", said Eve, not entirely sure how to address a being she had, until now, considered fictional.
    "Yes, you may call me God. Eve, in life you were an atheist. You doubted my existence, even objecting to the very concept". Again, a statement, not a question.
    "Yes, I did. Clearly, I was mistaken."
    "Clearly. Tell me, are you still an atheist?"
    "I suppose not. I'm not a Christian, Jew or anything else. I guess I'd have to be called an involuntary theist. Ah ha ha", Eve laughed nervously, hoping the very real and solid-looking deity before her had a good sense of humour.
    "Mmm... Tell me, Eve. Why did you not believe in me?". God's voice was kind and gentle once more.
    "At one point I did. I was raised as a Christian, and often went to church, and prayed every night before bed. When I was feeling down I would read the Bible. The act of reading it seemed to comfort me, even though the words themselves didn't seem much help. I think, like Martin, I believed because I believed."
    "And then you lost your faith? You decided I did not exist, and you knew better than those around you? You knew better than your pastor and family?" The voice was losing its kindly edge a little.
    "That is one way of looking at it, yes. What I believed did not seem to fit with other things I knew. The Bible clearly could not be literally true, word for word. I knew from biology and paleontology that humans had evolved like all other life, and were not special creations. How life or the universe began, I still don't know, but could not just merely accept 'God did it' as an explanation. I learned about other religions, and how they all claimed a monopoly on truth, happiness and morality. I saw the good done in your name, but I also saw the oppression, genocide and wars. I saw that if people were in need, it was up to us to deal with it, not to rely on heavenly aid.". Eve felt a little braver, but was expecting the traditional thunderbolt any moment. The people behind her, now at the head of the queue, were slowly moving backwards, trying not to draw attention to themselves.
    "Yet here you are, before your God, on the final Day of Judgment. Why should I allow you in - a heretic, a disbeliever, an infidel - when your predecessor, devout and faithful, full of love for me, was consigned to Oblivion? Tell me why. Justify your entry to my Paradise."
    Eve straightened up, looking God in the face. "Why should you let me in? Because I am better person than you."
    If Eve had looked round, she would have seen the entire line of souls, perfectly still and wide-eyed, staring at her in shock.
    "What did you say?", enquired God. His voice, though barely audible, caused tremors in the mountain.
    Surprised at still being alive, her mouth dry, Eve continued. "I said, because I am a better person. You have shown it yourself already. You told Martin that you watched as his mother became ill and died. You destroyed him for believing for no good reason, when his whole life had been shaped by that belief. Your preachers on Earth encourage unquestioning faith, yet you do not tell us whether that is what you want. You give people no rational basis for belief, and then when they make up their own that is not good enough for you. You listen to our prayers, yet do not answer, leaving people to rationalise events for themselves. People kill and slaughter over trivial differences in doctrine, and you look on. In the churches and temples raised in your glory, children are mentally and physically abused - in your so-called House! All over the world, throughout history, people have murdered each other for believing the wrong thing about God, for believing in the wrong God, or for not believing in any God. The poorest and most helpless people are relentlessly targeted, being told to give what little they have now, for the promise of eternal bliss later. When a person is at his lowest ebb, that is when the smiling missionaries appear, knowing that his life will probably get better naturally and they can give you the credit. In your name, the ends justify the means as long as souls are saved". Eve paused for breath, and continued.
    "And you? All-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing? You just sit here and you watch it all... Any person in this line, had they your power, would show greater compassion and morality. You may be God, but you are far from Godliness."
    God smiled. "Are you finished? Good. Eve, you have impressed me". He paused. Eve held her breath, shoulders tensing.
    "You have impressed me a great deal. You may have believed in me for all the wrong reasons, but you disbelieved for the right reasons. You led a good life, and used the intelligence I give to everybody in the correct way. Even though you came to a conclusion about me that was hopelessly wrong, you came to it in a way that cannot be faulted. You may pass into paradise, Eve, with my blessing."
    Eve did not step forward. Instead, she spoke once more. "No, I will not".
    "No? You refuse Heaven? You defy my will?" The smile had left God's face again.
    "Do you think I would want to spend one more minute, let alone eternity, in your company? You allow people to suffer, sometimes for their entire lives, for no purpose, and then judge them on their reaction. You hide yourself from the world and allow your creations to persecute each other over differing interpretations of the lack of evidence. You see all the pain and ignorance caused in your name, and just sit there as this queue grows daily? And then you have the audacity to punish good people for believing in you 'for the wrong reasons'?"
    "Eve. Enough of this. The gates to Paradise are open to you. Be silent now, and enter."
    "No. If it is a choice between oblivion and an eternity with a monster like you, I gladly choose oblivion. I ask only one thing, before you destroy me."
    "And what is that?" asked God, getting impatient.
    "That, if you can, you look me in the eyes as you do it."
    God turned his head away, lifted is hand, gestured his fingers.
    Shortly afterwards, the next person in the queue stepped towards the top of the mountain, and Judgment.

    © Adrian Barnett 2006

    thank you Adrian
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  9. #8  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Haha how big headed of the athiest, and stupid too. If the so called intelligence they had to disprove God exists, why when they actually can prove God do they defy Him? Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  10. #9  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    You are missing the whole point, my friend. The point that is being made, is that if a god exists, he would be the worst beast imaginable.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  11. #10  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Bullshit! What a ridiculous claim!
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  12. #11  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    the story in a nutshell : "what's the point of being a god if you don't show off once in a while ?"
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    I wouldn't want to believe in that god either. That isn't the God I serve. My God does show off from time to time but because it isn't the way we want it it "doesn't count".

    Think about Jesus (He never existed blah blah blah let it go). The Jews were expecting a king. Not just any king but a king with an army that would crush those who controlled them. When the King was born he was born in a barn and placed in a feed trough. The freedom that Jesus was to bring was freedom from sin not from the Romans. Because He wasn't the king they wanted they rejected Him and killed Him. All this was done according to Gods plan. Jesus died in our place. Jesus died in my place. Jesus died in your place. We deserve death but Jesus gave Himself so we could have life.

    God is not a vending machine that gives us what we want when we want it. He gives us what we need to point us to Him for our eternal souls to be saved.

    It seems most athiests have a really screwed up perception of who/what God is. I don't know where it comes from except religions and cults. I wouldn't want to believe in the god of that story either. I don't see the ideas attributed to the god of that story as applying to the God I serve.
    If we disagree then you must be right...
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  14. #13  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    So your explanation for all the suffering endured in the world by theist and atheist alike is because "it is gods plan"?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  15. #14  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Yes obviously. But why blame God because he can do something but doesn't?
    You can give all you own to those in need in Africa but you don't do you? I don't and a lot of other people don't either. You have the ability to perform small miracles to other people, but you don't so why blame God in the same way. God is all loving so if all the suffering is perhaps is an ultimate way of a higher way of loving them. I don't know and no one should insult others because they cannot defend God's will because believers DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAPPENS, so stop blaming us for goodness sake. Bloody hell. What planet are atheists from? Just because those with faith have faith how are we to know more about God's will and plan etc as much as atheists are?
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Yes obviously. But why blame God because he can do something but doesn't?
    You can give all you own to those in need in Africa but you don't do you? I don't and a lot of other people don't either. You have the ability to perform small miracles to other people, but you don't so why blame God in the same way. God is all loving so if all the suffering is perhaps is an ultimate way of a higher way of loving them. I don't know and no one should insult others because they cannot defend God's will because believers DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAPPENS, so stop blaming us for goodness sake. Bloody hell. What planet are atheists from? Just because those with faith have faith how are we to know more about God's will and plan etc as much as atheists are?
    Well if I gave everything to the poor, it would make little difference in the long run, while I would JOIN the poor, perhaps claiming some of my own stuff back in the end .:wink: God, on the other hand, could supposedly get rid of all suffering in the blink of an eye with no adverse effects to himself. Big difference, don't you think? To atheists, "I dont know god's plan" simply does not cut it as an explanation of all the suffering in the world. To an atheist, that would (and is) a very big piece of evidence against the existence of a god.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  18. #17  
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    This guy is SOOOOOOOOOOOO boring. He sounds sarcastic and sounds like he's taking the piss.

    What about Gods plan for blacks and whites to be equal. What about Gods plan to have men and women equal. What about discovering the atom? His plan, what about Gods plan for us to have this forum. If it wasn't Gods plan you'd have no life. Sorry atheists. Your evidence is based on none, your rationailisation of the Bible is based on modern scientific methods and that everything that cannot be proved is impossible. Its a stupid assumption. I can't see it or measure it so it's impossible.

    Heres a question, can I walk on water?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Yes obviously. But why blame God because he can do something but doesn't?
    You can give all you own to those in need in Africa but you don't do you? I don't and a lot of other people don't either. You have the ability to perform small miracles to other people, but you don't so why blame God in the same way. God is all loving so if all the suffering is perhaps is an ultimate way of a higher way of loving them. I don't know and no one should insult others because they cannot defend God's will because believers DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAPPENS, so stop blaming us for goodness sake. Bloody hell. What planet are atheists from? Just because those with faith have faith how are we to know more about God's will and plan etc as much as atheists are?
    Well if I gave everything to the poor, it would make little difference in the long run, while I would JOIN the poor, perhaps claiming some of my own stuff back in the end .:wink: God, on the other hand, could supposedly get rid of all suffering in the blink of an eye with no adverse effects to himself. Big difference, don't you think? To atheists, "I dont know god's plan" simply does not cut it as an explanation of all the suffering in the world. To an atheist, that would (and is) a very big piece of evidence against the existence of a god.
    Its not evidence! So evidence for you not giving a small amount is because your influence would be minor? WTF?! If you can help someone else do so, regardless of what happens to yourself, thats being selfish and thats the test on you. If God did everything for us there would be no need for each other and therefore no test as we would not be able to do any good because God would do it all for us, therefore the whole point of being on Earth in the first place would be pointless! I really wish atheists thought about what they say before they say it, it makes no sense to me anything they say about religion. To understand how something works, first you have to believe that that something exists. Don't tell me how God's train works if you can't see the damn thing or refuse to believe it exists. Bloody hell how paradoxical are atheists?
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Yes obviously. But why blame God because he can do something but doesn't?
    You can give all you own to those in need in Africa but you don't do you? I don't and a lot of other people don't either. You have the ability to perform small miracles to other people, but you don't so why blame God in the same way. God is all loving so if all the suffering is perhaps is an ultimate way of a higher way of loving them. I don't know and no one should insult others because they cannot defend God's will because believers DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAPPENS, so stop blaming us for goodness sake. Bloody hell. What planet are atheists from? Just because those with faith have faith how are we to know more about God's will and plan etc as much as atheists are?
    Well if I gave everything to the poor, it would make little difference in the long run, while I would JOIN the poor, perhaps claiming some of my own stuff back in the end .:wink: God, on the other hand, could supposedly get rid of all suffering in the blink of an eye with no adverse effects to himself. Big difference, don't you think? To atheists, "I dont know god's plan" simply does not cut it as an explanation of all the suffering in the world. To an atheist, that would (and is) a very big piece of evidence against the existence of a god.
    Its not evidence! So evidence for you not giving a small amount is because your influence would be minor? WTF?! If you can help someone else do so, regardless of what happens to yourself, thats being selfish and thats the test on you. If God did everything for us there would be no need for each other and therefore no test as we would not be able to do any good because God would do it all for us, therefore the whole point of being on Earth in the first place would be pointless! I really wish atheists thought about what they say before they say it, it makes no sense to me anything they say about religion. To understand how something works, first you have to believe that that something exists. Don't tell me how God's train works if you can't see the damn thing or refuse to believe it exists. Bloody hell how paradoxical are atheists?
    The fact is, many people suffer. More than either of us can imagine. NOTHING is being done for them. Not by anyone, god/atheist/theist. My point is, that even if I gave everything that I had, it would do little good. As a matter of fact, I do help out where I can. Where I CAN. God CAN stop unimaginable suffering by a wave of his hand. And does he? NO! Why? Because of his plan? NONSENSE!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Yes obviously. But why blame God because he can do something but doesn't?
    You can give all you own to those in need in Africa but you don't do you? I don't and a lot of other people don't either. You have the ability to perform small miracles to other people, but you don't so why blame God in the same way. God is all loving so if all the suffering is perhaps is an ultimate way of a higher way of loving them. I don't know and no one should insult others because they cannot defend God's will because believers DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAPPENS, so stop blaming us for goodness sake. Bloody hell. What planet are atheists from? Just because those with faith have faith how are we to know more about God's will and plan etc as much as atheists are?
    Well if I gave everything to the poor, it would make little difference in the long run, while I would JOIN the poor, perhaps claiming some of my own stuff back in the end .:wink: God, on the other hand, could supposedly get rid of all suffering in the blink of an eye with no adverse effects to himself. Big difference, don't you think? To atheists, "I dont know god's plan" simply does not cut it as an explanation of all the suffering in the world. To an atheist, that would (and is) a very big piece of evidence against the existence of a god.
    Its not evidence! So evidence for you not giving a small amount is because your influence would be minor? WTF?! If you can help someone else do so, regardless of what happens to yourself, thats being selfish and thats the test on you. If God did everything for us there would be no need for each other and therefore no test as we would not be able to do any good because God would do it all for us, therefore the whole point of being on Earth in the first place would be pointless! I really wish atheists thought about what they say before they say it, it makes no sense to me anything they say about religion. To understand how something works, first you have to believe that that something exists. Don't tell me how God's train works if you can't see the damn thing or refuse to believe it exists. Bloody hell how paradoxical are atheists?
    The fact is, many people suffer. More than either of us can imagine. NOTHING is being done for them. Not by anyone, god/atheist/theist. My point is, that even if I gave everything that I had, it would do little good. As a matter of fact, I do help out where I can. Where I CAN. God CAN stop unimaginable suffering by a wave of his hand. And does he? NO! Why? Because of his plan? NONSENSE!
    Nonsense? Based on your 4 dimensional way of looking at the world, with your inferior brain? With your subordinate position against the universe knowledge? Prove to me its nonsense and I'll show you a green dog.

    PS The insults there are shock orientated to get you to react.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  22. #21 Re: A Soul's Dilemma? 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    an atheist on judgement day
    Interesting. Thanks for that.
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  23. #22  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    What a convenient answer god’s plan is? If you can’t rationalize something according to your religion, it is because of god’s plan. Do you have anything else than that? Any other reason people suffer? When I used to be a theist, I argued that there is no plan, god merely knows what decisions we will make. Also, that life is but a very small instant, a test after which you would live eternally in bliss. Do you not think this is a better argument than bloody “god’s plan”? Will you walk up to a skeleton of a person and tell him its ok, its god’s plan? You have no concept of true suffering it seems.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  24. #23  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What a convenient answer god’s plan is? If you can’t rationalize something according to your religion, it is because of god’s plan. Do you have anything else than that? Any other reason people suffer? When I used to be a theist, I argued that there is no plan, god merely knows what decisions we will make. Also, that life is but a very small instant, a test after which you would live eternally in bliss. Do you not think this is a better argument than bloody “god’s plan”? Will you walk up to a skeleton of a person and tell him its ok, its god’s plan? You have no concept of true suffering it seems.
    True suffering? You don't know the meaning of the words.

    ...god merely knows what decisions we will make
    I believe that, its His will that they continue to happen otherwise they would not as it would not be His will.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  25. #24  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    True suffering? You don't know the meaning of the words.
    And neither do you. But MANY people know exactly what it means.

    I believe that, its His will that they continue to happen otherwise they would not as it would not be His will.
    Yes, that is the subject of our little altercation here. Why is it his will? Because he’s got a plan, right?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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