Thread: Mazhara

I just wanted to say Mazhara that out of all the people-the many MANY people I have met-you are the only one that I think is on par with God's will. It really warms me to know there is someone out there after all that thinks and loves people as much-if not more than I do. I feel myself becoming attached to you in a very strange way. I am glad and priveleged that we have met. It gives me hope in that others can be nice considerate wonderful people too.

My anger at people comes from their anger at me. No matter how much I love them they fight me and hate me and I try but to no avail to get them to love me. I find it increasingly hard to resist this need to fight back. Maybe however thats the test. If the world were full of people as kind as you then I would not get angry, then perhaps I suppose thinking now, I would never learn my lesson-that lesson being love people and not think of their hurtful ways and ways of letting them know of your anger, but to love them even more for being the way they are. I really would like this to be true. But drivers who annoy me, family problems and bickering, employment problems etc is a true test of my want to be loving to everyone.

Then stop trying to love everybody you deluded Christian hippie.

Brother svwillmer,

It is very kind of you. You have a big and peaceful heart. The peace of the heart is, in my preferences, the most primary thing that matters in life. Everything else is secondary and of much less importance. The peace of the heart comes only if you wish to place the hearts of others in peace.

Cat I've been called many things but never that. I am very genuinley wierd. PS. Glad you've got that avatar . They shall not grow old.

PS Thank you very much Mazhara. And I have to love everyone Cat because I want to that after Jesus told me too. You follow the laws of the land-there is no difference as to why I follow God & Jesus'.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

And I have to love everyone Cat because I want to that after Jesus told me too. You follow the laws of the land-there is no difference as to why I follow God & Jesus'.

Putting aside the fact that there is no evidence Jesus even existed, let's focus on the what you think he said, that he wants you to love everyone. You've probably been told something similar by any number of family members, friends or acquaintances, perhaps not in those exact words, but words that would describe a similar behavior.

Why would the alleged words from Jesus suddenly spark you into such a behavior and words from family and friends go unheard? What were you doing prior to hearing such words, hating everyone?

The point is that you don't need to worship anyone who tells you to live your life without trying to harm others.

You could have easily figured that out for yourself through trial and error.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by svwillmer

And I have to love everyone Cat because I want to that after Jesus told me too. You follow the laws of the land-there is no difference as to why I follow God & Jesus'.

Putting aside the fact that there is no evidence Jesus even existed, let's focus on the what you think he said, that he wants you to love everyone. You've probably been told something similar by any number of family members, friends or acquaintances, perhaps not in those exact words, but words that would describe a similar behavior.

Why would the alleged words from Jesus suddenly spark you into such a behavior and words from family and friends go unheard? What were you doing prior to hearing such words, hating everyone?

The point is that you don't need to worship anyone who tells you to live your life without trying to harm others.

You could have easily figured that out for yourself through trial and error.

Some people DO need to be told Q that is the point and that is why religion exists. Those of us who don't need to be 'told' don't join the club.
Being part of a club is important for some and in a way is a fundamental part of our biological make up. We are designed to 'need' others to survive. Hence the formation of a 'society' and group livng and 'clubs'.

Perhaps those who don't need clubs (while being free thinkers and more independant) are slightly less likely to survive a catastrophy as they lack a survival mechanism that the clubbers have.

I for example (in a disaster) may not naturally gravitate towards a help centre preferring instead to take my chances alone, but survival may be more likely if I instead became part of a collective.

Being part of a club is important for some and in a way is a fundamental part of our biological make up.{theoryforrelativity}

All our actions/movements/deeds are the result of the desire to satisfy the appetite of three areas of our body, the chest, belly and immediately below the belly. And for all three we have to go beyond ourselves, into a person/group/society. And in the society everyone has a partnership. Since everyone has a partnership in the society, everyone has to restrain himself unto a certain limit. Man made ethics can’t work. People will need people like Jesus {peace and respects upon him} to restrain them in meeting the desires/appetite of three areas of the body which create the entire activity and everyone can be at peace only if we listen to Jesus.

Really, Mazhara? You should meet certain groups of those who practice meditation. I would say buddhists, but buddhists tend to practice disassociation rather than peace (in my opinion they confuse the terms).

One does not need mythical characters to keep themselves in check. Many non believers like myself have done it for centuries.

The human body can reach even more levels of finer control through deep mental acts such as various types of meditation. This includes peace. There are many stories of those who achieve deeper levels of peace, to the extent that wild animals do not hunt or fear them.

These are, of course, stories. But since you put so much stock in mythology, perhaps you will put stock in them as well.

"man made" ethics work better than bible/quran ones. Or do you condone cutting hands off of thieves, stoning people to death, and torture? People seem to pick and choose what scriptures to follow when they say "ethics". Your religion is not ethical, it is not just, and it is not intelligent. If it was perhaps we could have avoided many ancient crusades.

Really, Mazhara? You should meet certain groups of those who practice meditation

.

Dear, in the ordinary perception attached to "meditation", I consider it nothing but illusion, escapcism, self deceit. A warm blooded should not "squeeze" in the manner of a cold blooded one and feel it as peace.

Self negation can't give peace. Peace can only be attained by love. And as the "weight" of anything is the measure of attraction of someone else, any act/action would have "weight" if it is done in the attraction/love of someone else. This won't involve self negation yet bring the peace.

Knowledge is of visible, dimensions, relationships or merely "how". This is a circular move. We can never get out of the circle. And while moving in a circle the vision blurs. The knowing of the purpose, "why" would give peace in the true sense, otherwise "how" is an endless pursuit, merely "wandering" that will never take to the destination, peace.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

Dear, in the ordinary perception attached to "meditation", I consider it nothing but illusion, escapcism, self deceit. A warm blooded should not "squeeze" in the manner of a cold blooded one and feel it as peace.

Mazhara, you have just demonstrated your own ignorance. You don't even comprehend what meditation is. Perhaps you've confused it with the buddhist practice of disassociation, but since I already gave obvious mention to it I fail to see how you confused it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

There is a start. Everything from Zen meditation to contemplative.

"An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."

The rest of your tripe follows along. You should read what I say more carefully.

Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht

The rest of your tripe follows along. You should read what I say more carefully.

Careful Jeremyhfht, lets not go into that again. Meditation is the art to escape the stresses of lifes and the ultimate practice of all Buddhists is to attain Enlightenment-to leave the body and be with God through purity and holiness-having put all worldyness aside. I follow the noble eightfold path as well as God and Christs' teachings (not chopping peoples hands of though-Jesus telling us to love thy neighbour as oneself (being His second most important commandment) which retifies the old text as Jesus said-You can only reach The Father through me). I also believe in Reincarnation, Karma and the Circle of Life. I am also believing science and evolution and am fully competent with my beliefs. My need to be in a group is not true, I do it because God tells me to, it's as simple as that, and yes if He told me to jump off a cliff I would, just as Abraham was going to sacrafice his son Issac as God told him to, of course God said it was only to test his faith and so was not going to let him sacrafice his son anyway. Our ethics are not wrong, it just depends on how you interperet the Holy texts, which some justify murder where myself and Mazhara would justify great love. As I've said before there are good and bad in all walks of life. For example not all teenagers are thugs just because a number of them are condemed to be through their behaviour.

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Careful Jeremyhfht, lets not go into that again. Meditation is the art to escape the stresses of lifes and the ultimate practice of all Buddhists is to attain Enlightenment-to leave the body and be with God through purity and holiness-having put all worldyness aside.

Yeah. Buddhist meditation. Surely you aren't so arrogant and ill-informed that you think the buddhist way is the only way? Lets assume no.

Now, it would have been wise to leave it at that. But again, you wrote a lot of excess tripe. Am I the only one capable of being brief? I already covered this by mentioning it in my original post. Christ you guys.

[quote="Mazhara"]

Dear, in the ordinary perception attached to "meditation", I consider it nothing but illusion, escapcism, self deceit. .

change meditation to religion and it still fits

Svwillmer, how would you know if god told you to kill yourself? Did he actually talk to you in the past? And I mean directly, not inferred from something you felt or saw. If some voice told me to kill myself, I would immediately go to a psychologist, as I would most certainly be suffering from some mental disorder. Bar that, I’d consider telepathy or aliens.

NOO, Don't be silly. I don't hear voices, I'd be at the nut house figuring out why I was hearing things in a blink of an eye if I was! By doing what God said I meant what it says in the religious texts. I'd only kill myself if, you know I don't actually know how God would tell me to do it. I'd expect it to be the heavens opening up with bright light coming from it, but maybe thats fairyland way of it. I generally don't know how He would say kill myself, then again I don't think He would but if He did then I would. But I don't know how He would say so, so it's paradoxical at first glance given that I don't know how it would come about in the first place. I see what you mean though.

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

Some people DO need to be told Q that is the point and that is why religion exists. Those of us who don't need to be 'told' don't join the club.

Ok fine, but do we have to completely give up our faculties and start worshiping and be subservient to the person who said those words? I've learned much as a child from Aesop, yet I don't worship him.

I for example (in a disaster) may not naturally gravitate towards a help centre preferring instead to take my chances alone, but survival may be more likely if I instead became part of a collective.

I'm not against joining a club or forming one either. But, when those clubs begin purporting their invisible sky daddy created us all, controls us all, and demands we be subservient to their every whim, then it's time to turn in the membership card and move on.

Huge difference there. ToRry.

theres a very simple way to make scientists like you.
1. dont try and constantly push the religion crap on them.
2. study one of the sciences, then share your knowledge.
3. ask questions about their fields. scientists love to share some of their discoveries.

Mazhara, you have just demonstrated your own ignorance. You don't even comprehend what meditation is. Perhaps you've confused it with the buddhist practice of disassociation, but since I already gave obvious mention to it I fail to see how you confused it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation {Jeremyhfht}

Thanks brother,

Since I know about myself that me is merely a man of ordinary prudence therefore I immediately rushed to the link. But there I also found that meditation is more related to the “self”. Don’t you think this is in a way also some sort of psychological disorder?
I am little confused since disassociation would be the natural result of “meditation”!!!

No it isn't. Meditation can be anything from pondering to discovering more about yourself. One of my more favorite methods of meditation deals with being out in nature, but that's for stress relief.

I've been meditating for over two years now. I'm the most empathetic person I know. It is not the natural result of any meditation, merely some forms.

Furthermore, merely meditating on your own concept does not do that to you. I fail to see how you make that correlation.

Yet you call people stupid, and talk about tripe and all that other stuff which contradicts you. How now does it feel to be put in that position where you are critised for your beliefs? You meditate for your own benefit because I've seen you to be understanding sometims but down right insulting sometimes. Meditation should not be used as a scientific method of stress relief as pills can do, it is an attempt to separate the mind and the body and then the mind and the spirit, so why all people names if you mediatate and as a result are empathetic to others? Because you haven't been to me or other people regardless of whether they have religon or not. If someone does not agree with you you don't challenge theie beliefs you insult them by saying, this is tripe, your stupid etc. What's the point? If you haven't anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all.

svwillmer, you may not understand everything there is to understand about inflation, but you sure as heck know when to call Bull. :-D

I would, however, point out that it is possible to be empathetic and insulting at the same time. The empathy merely allows the barbs to placed more accurately. 8)

Originally Posted by svwillmer

Meditation should not be used as a scientific method of stress relief as pills can do, it is an attempt to separate the mind and the body and then the mind and the spirit, so why all people names if you mediatate and as a result are empathetic to others?

um, what? I merely mentioned that it's partially stress relief. Meditation can aid in a number of things from better bodily control to better control of your own mind. It merely depends on how you do it. Your way is obviously not the only way.

And ophiolite covered the rest.

Because you haven't been to me or other people regardless of whether they have religon or not. If someone does not agree with you you don't challenge theie beliefs you insult them by saying, this is tripe, your stupid etc. What's the point? If you haven't anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all.

The last sentence is the battle cry for every stupid person on the planet. If you are stupid, your ideas are stupid, and I will not hesitate to point out your flaw. I don't simply ad-hom either, I point out whether it is stupid or not and proceed to prove it.

Most of the time you write a lot of excess BULL. Learn to be concise at least. For example, your above description of your religious practice of meditation obviously is not the one I use. You are being obtuse.

One of my more favorite methods of meditation deals with being out in nature, but that's for stress relief.

But brother what it has to do with meditation? Sitting in a small room for longer periods will cause stress and fatigue and it will be greater if the furniture or the side walls are of darker colors. The vastness in itself will cause relief to the stress and fatigue. Even if someone is depressed or in sad mood going into open air/garden will cause him relief/freshness.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

One of my more favorite methods of meditation deals with being out in nature, but that's for stress relief.

But brother what it has to do with meditation? Sitting in a small room for longer periods will cause stress and fatigue and it will be greater if the furniture or the side walls are of darker colors.

You misunderstand meditation. I wish I could show you an example personally, but instead you will have to read more. Keep reading about it until you stop coming to incorrect conclusions.

Meditation can be much more than simple sitting. It can be moving (tai chi), poses (yoga), or anything in-between you can devise to achieve a desired result. Normally a state of mind unlike your normal one, followed by a more focused awareness. These are just some of the possible benefits.

The vastness in itself will cause relief to the stress and fatigue. Even if someone is depressed or in sad mood going into open air/garden will cause him relief/freshness.

Yes, but my method of meditation helps more. Think of it as being more aware, to the point where the impact of your surroundings is much greater. Offering more than it did before. Being able to concentrate like that is vital with a lot of things.

Normally a state of mind unlike your normal one, followed by a more focused awareness. These are just some of the possible benefits.{jeremyhfht}

Apparently it sounds quite a desirable thing. I would appreciate if you could elaborate the one effect "more focussed awareness" is regarding awareness about what!

Originally Posted by Mazhara

Apparently it sounds quite a desirable thing. I would appreciate if you could elaborate the one effect "more focussed awareness" is regarding awareness about what!

Mazhara, information about the state of mind one enters during various forms of meditation can be found on the internet. Your awareness can increase in a variety of ways. Ranging from your five senses, to your muscle control.

I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself. Please do the research.

Thanks jeremyhfht,

I thought instead of going to internet and reading stereotype material again I would get enlightenment from you as you had earlier said:

Yes, but my method of meditation helps more. Think of it as being more aware, to the point where the impact of your surroundings is much greater. Offering more than it did before. Being able to concentrate like that is vital with a lot of things.

...and? It is "my method". but it brings about the same results as a number of others. I just do it a slightly different way. Nothing special.

Dear your method of meditation works well therefore it can't be 'nothing special". It has to be special but perhaps you don't consider it proper that to go to ordinary people, like me who may not be able to either correctly appreciate it or perform it. And you must be right in your judgement, therefore thanks, brother.

...What.