Thread: copy and pasting muslims

Can someone explain to me if all muslims are taught to copy and paste meaningless BS onto forums as part of their religion? or are we dealing with the same member in different guises? or is it that a particular type of muslim is just draw to this forum?

It seems like every month we get a new member using the same techniques to try and prove their faith, surely no-one on here actually cares?

Am i the only one who finds this boring?

aw come on, admit it, you like having the occasional bash, even if you're repeating yourself

Dear captaincaveman,

I have just posted three threads. I feel sorry that people have been boring you by cut and paste. I have glanced some of the threads. And I feel that you have not even gone through the new threads and passed the judgement. On these topics there is nothing available anywhere on the entire net with reference to Quran.

What makes you feel happy while on the forum, I would like to discuss that and learn from you. Your happiness is more dear to me than posting new threads. I mean it sincerely.

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

Can someone explain to me if all muslims are taught to copy and paste meaningless BS onto forums as part of their religion?

Absolutely. Islam is an evangelist cult. Join them, or perish.

or are we dealing with the same member in different guises? or is it that a particular type of muslim is just draw to this forum?

I've found most to be equally wallowing in propaganda, fueled on by their childhood indoctrinations.

It seems like every month we get a new member using the same techniques to try and prove their faith, surely no-one on here actually cares?

Ah, but we should care. These people provide ample opportunities to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous their claims are when standing up to hard questions. In fact, they regularly fall flat to some easy questions, too.

Am i the only one who finds this boring?

I usually find it amusing. :wink:

Originally Posted by Mazhara

Dear captaincaveman,

I have just posted three threads. I feel sorry that people have been boring you by cut and paste. I have glanced some of the threads. And I feel that you have not even gone through the new threads and passed the judgement. On these topics there is nothing available anywhere on the entire net with reference to Quran.

What makes you feel happy while on the forum, I would like to discuss that and learn from you. Your happiness is more dear to me than posting new threads. I mean it sincerely.

Im sorry but i see the book as a few fairy tail storys(similar to the bible), i find it very worrying that not only do people believe(and kill and die for)these story books, but that they actually believe that they are amazing


Fair enough not everyone has the same belief system, but i struggle to understand what you expect these posts to actually achieve

WE have had atleast 4 other members on here saying that the koran fortold x, y or z. First the weakness of the quotes are vague enough to be twisted to fit anything you want it too, this is compounded by the fact that many have interpreted in slightly different ways so the interpreter used is dependant on the meaning thats required

secondly, hind sight is such a wonderful thing, whats happening is some bored desperate scholars are searching through the koran for text, then looking for the hard work of true scientists to find something to claim for their own

and thirdly, look at the amazing predictions of nostradamus(if you want to play with interpretations), or without, look to the other fiction tales of arthur c clark, or the two fine books that are orwells 1984 or Aldous Huxley brave new world, both have interesting potential predictions of a future society, but you dont see orwellites blowing up women and children for those fictional books


Im sorry but i find your "amazing facts" to be boring, and yes comical too, but things are only funny some many times before they become a drain

I thought before starting this thread, should i wait for the inevitable "koran predicted orbits, iron and the three stages of development in the womb", but i thought i'd save the forum the bandwidth

Originally Posted by Mazhara

What makes you feel happy while on the forum, I would like to discuss that and learn from you. Your happiness is more dear to me than posting new threads. I mean it sincerely.

Those are very kind words :wink: I think most forum members are most interested in discussing how people's beliefs influence their behaviour and their moral judgements. For example there's a discussion going on about the way atheists and apostates are treated by Christians and Muslims, and I've just posted a thread about religion and birth control.

In the past there have been a lot of posts that claim the Quran or another holy book predicted the future, or contained all kinds of scientific evidence. Such posts don't give openings for discussion. But I think most people here would be very interested to see an Islamic perspective on issues of daily life and politics.

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Originally Posted by Mazhara

What makes you feel happy while on the forum, I would like to discuss that and learn from you. Your happiness is more dear to me than posting new threads. I mean it sincerely.

Those are very kind words :wink: I think most forum members are most interested in discussing how people's beliefs influence their behaviour and their moral judgements. For example there's a discussion going on about the way atheists and apostates are treated by Christians and Muslims, and I've just posted a thread about religion and birth control.

In the past there have been a lot of posts that claim the Quran or another holy book predicted the future, or contained all kinds of scientific evidence. Such posts don't give openings for discussion. But I think most people here would be very interested to see an Islamic perspective on issues of daily life and politics.

In other words, enlighten, don't proselytize.

Originally Posted by Pendragon

. But I think most people here would be very interested to see an Islamic perspective on issues of daily life and politics.

exactly

They copy and pasted because they cannot think for themselves. Thats what happens to people when they are made to read the same crap over and over again.

-----------------

If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough, the people will believe it - Adolph Hitler.

I thought before starting this thread, should i wait for the inevitable "koran predicted orbits, iron and the three stages of development in the womb", but i thought i'd save the forum the bandwidth {captaincaveman}

But I think most people here would be very interested to see an Islamic perspective on issues of daily life and politics. {Pendragon}

Exactly {captaincaveman}

I agree. But may I tell you one thing that when I start such threads on issues of daily life and politics, some others may start getting bored since what we are doing these days in our daily life and politics that does not have even the remotest relationship with the Quran and Islam and they might complain to the administration that it is a Science forum-religion and "our brother" Mazhar has started social and political matters.

I am also perturbed that many are trying to juxtapose scientific discovery upon the Quran while I say that the words of Quran should be read exactly according to the meanings of the words employed and then the present day information needs to be evaluated since despite knowing so much our knowledge is still at elementary stage, if we accept the realities and vastness of the universe.

I wanted to place the information contained in the Quran about physical matter since I believe that the falsification test of any book about which me or other people of any religion claim to be a revealed Book and not authored by some human being, is only the information contained in it about the matter/physical fact which is verifiable in time and space and not the historical facts or occurrence of dialogue reported in that book.

I saw that the members of this forum are very knowledgeable and active at the same time and I could get a lot from them on scientific matters which could enable me understand the book in which I believe. It is the knowledge alone that could give the conviction otherwise procedural memory is quite sufficient to run the day to day affairs.

But For respect to your apprehensions, and for want of your permission I can't place before the learned members an Article giving information that the word used for the Orbits in Quran also gives the shape of orbit as that word describes as “girl’s breast shaped which has become rounded but less than full or swelled, protuberant breast”.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

I agree. But may I tell you one thing that when I start such threads on issues of daily life and politics, some others may start getting bored since what we are doing these days in our daily life and politics that does not have even the remotest relationship with the Quran and Islam and they might complain to the administration that it is a Science forum-religion and "our brother" Mazhar has started social and political matters.

The explanation of social and political behaviour is science as well. If people with different belief systems (or theists versus atheists) behave in different ways, then it would be very interesting and relevant for a science forum to explain such differences.

This forum is just as much about the natural sciences (physics, chemistry, biology etc) as about the social sciences (sociology, history, comparative theology etc). Information and opinions derived from the Quran can be very interesting in the fields of social sciences (do Islamic societies function the same as religious or atheist societies? Did characteristics of Islam influence historical processes? etc).
But due to the nature of modern science I don't see how the Quran or any religious document can provide useful information about the natural sciences. It would need to contain data, empirical observations, or at least clear arguments to back up statements about nature.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

I wanted to place the information contained in the Quran about physical matter since I believe that the falsification test of any book about which me or other people of any religion claim to be a revealed Book and not authored by some human being, is only the information contained in it about the matter/physical fact which is verifiable in time and space and not the historical facts or occurrence of dialogue reported in that book.

In order to falsify a statement one needs precise information, at least clear arguments but if possible also testable predictions. Religious documents seldomly contain these things, they usually contain vague descriptions that can be interpreted in all kinds of ways and which are not backed up by evidence or strong arguments. But if you think the Quran does hold such information, then feel free to present it on this forum. Please open one thread at a time, with clear hypotheses or statements and related evidence. It's not sufficient to claim that by describing the Earth's orbit as having the shape of a girl's breast the Quran explains this astronomical observation, we need strong arguments and as much evidence as possible.

As one of the moderators I can assure you that interesting posts are never deleted, no matter their subject. But they have to contain the necessary elements to make scientific discussion possible.

As one of the moderators I can assure you that interesting posts are never deleted, no matter their subject. But they have to contain the necessary elements to make scientific discussion possible.

Brother Pandragon,

It is very kind of you. Thanks. But this is more in the nature of a rule and principle. But passion and comfort of a colleague brother member of the forum, captivecaveman is heavier on all the rules and principles I hold. Deletion is not the concern, that is the prerogative of the administration.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

As one of the moderators I can assure you that interesting posts are never deleted, no matter their subject. But they have to contain the necessary elements to make scientific discussion possible.

Brother Pandragon,

It is very kind of you. Thanks. But this is more in the nature of a rule and principle. But passion and comfort of a colleague brother member of the forum, captivecaveman is heavier on all the rules and principles I hold. Deletion is not the concern, that is the prerogative of the administration.

Indeed it is. However, Pendragon is quite correct in stipulating the policy of this administration. Although Copy-Paste work is frowned upon, I do not feel these accusations hold truth in regards to your posts here.
Although I might disagree with some of your posts, I do not see how that should be an impediment to your and your posts staying here.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

As one of the moderators I can assure you that interesting posts are never deleted, no matter their subject. But they have to contain the necessary elements to make scientific discussion possible.

Brother Pandragon,

It is very kind of you. Thanks. But this is more in the nature of a rule and principle. But passion and comfort of a colleague brother member of the forum, captivecaveman is heavier on all the rules and principles I hold. Deletion is not the concern, that is the prerogative of the administration.

Not sure what your trying to say here towards me, can you clarify?

I need your permission with joy and support to place before the learned people like you and many many others about the perception I obtained from some facts mentioned in an old Book, which people call a religious book, but I believe that a book should be first considered and read as a book. Without reading a book, any book it seems to me that accepting or condemning it is irrational and unscientific attitude.

Reading any book is a serious matter. One has to either accept it or reject it by discarding its version/statement through an argumet/fact. Reading a book creates a liability. I started reading this particular book and got caught by its very first introduction which makes an unprecedented claim that it does not contain any conjectural/theory/ wishful/hearsay matter but only a proven fact. And brother I used to claim that I am a truth seeker, now therefore, I cannot run away without thoroughly reading it. I could have done it with any book, religious or otherwise if it had not started with a claim/introduction that it contains nothing but the truth.

This book keeps dropping hints about universe and human beings intermittently. As a serious reader of books I don't dispute why the book did not say about such and such things, why it did not give detailed account etc, but contain myself to only that fact/statement made by that book and try to verify the verocity of that statement to evaluate whether the book could be believed and relied upon.

For this reason, I wanted to benefit from the scientific knowledge of intelligent people of this forum The Science Forum-Scientific Discussion and Debate about my personal study, not cut and paste matter. Whatever will be posted is drafted and written by me.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

I need your permission with joy and support to place before the learned people like you and many many others about the perception I obtained from some facts mentioned in an old Book, which people call a religious book, but I believe that a book should be first considered and read as a book. Without reading a book, any book it seems to me that accepting or condemning it is irrational and unscientific attitude.

Reading any book is a serious matter. One has to either accept it or reject it by discarding its version/statement through an argumet/fact. Reading a book creates a liability. I started reading this particular book and got caught by its very first introduction which makes an unprecedented claim that it does not contain any conjectural/theory/ wishful/hearsay matter but only a proven fact. And brother I used to claim that I am a truth seeker, now therefore, I cannot run away without thoroughly reading it. I could have done it with any book, religious or otherwise if it had not started with a claim/introduction that it contains nothing but the truth.

This book keeps dropping hints about universe and human beings intermittently. As a serious reader of books I don't dispute why the book did not say about such and such things, why it did not give detailed account etc, but contain myself to only that fact/statement made by that book and try to verify the verocity of that statement to evaluate whether the book could be believed and relied upon.

For this reason, I wanted to benefit from the scientific knowledge of intelligent people of this forum The Science Forum-Scientific Discussion and Debate about my personal study, not cut and paste matter. Whatever will be posted is drafted and written by me.

I can see what your saying, but saying a book is the word of god and fortells the future isn't scientific either.

you have to look at the claims made in the book, and then look at what scientific discoverys were made before it was written, the reason i was particularly blunt with your post is that you were the 4th or 5th person to post similar, and none of the claims before convinced me either


You say the book drops "hints", this is where your argument falls down, what you are actually seeing is loose translations in hind sight of human achievements to suit a claim, and to claim this as "fact" is frankly insulting to all the good scientists work

I have seen so many claims from the koran, and not one thing from it has convinced me or many other people of anything "wonderful" or divine, the only thing it has convinced me of is the desperation of the human mind to clutch to anything than to face the reality of life

I can see what your saying, but saying a book is the word of god and fortells the future isn't scientific either

I did not say any of the two things; word of god; foretells the future.
I said an old book which people call a religious book.
Being a serious reader of any book I wish to put it to scrutiny/test to verify/rebut its statements before putting it back into books rack.
Being a materialist {or someone may call an atheist} I do not accept the word of anyone on its face value; it must be verified as a rational human being.

You have to look at the claims made in the book, and then look at what scientific discoveries were made before it was written……….
You say the book drops "hints", this is where your argument falls down, what you are actually seeing is loose translations in hind sight of human achievements to suit a claim, and to claim this as "fact" is frankly insulting to all the good scientists work

Yes this is the rational approach. I also applied it.
If something was said about any matter I tried to check the information/ knowledge/perception known/prevalent amongst people of knowledge before this book was introduced.
For example this book said that comets are the celestial objects like the planets while the perception of knowledgeable people including Aristotle was that these were not celestial bodies. And then I found that from 1577 onwards we admitted that these are celestial bodies and then in 17th century Newton confirmed that movements of comets are subject to the same laws that control the planets in their orbits. Thus I find that the specific information given by the book negating the knowledge and perception of people which they held at that point of time was later found to be correct.

Today billions of people know only this fact that comets are celestial objects and are subject to the same rules as govern the movement of planets. How and why and the details are known to only few amongst billions. This does not mean that people are insulting the good ssientist's work.

Don’t you think that this fact alone merits detailed study and scrutiny of the book? And would it not be a serious and meaningful exercise?

Originally Posted by Mazhara

For example this book said that comets are the celestial objects like the planets while the perception of knowledgeable people including Aristotle was that these were not celestial bodies. And then I found that from 1577 onwards we admitted that these are celestial bodies and then in 17th century Newton confirmed that movements of comets are subject to the same laws that control the planets in their orbits. Thus I find that the specific information given by the book negating the knowledge and perception of people which they held at that point of time was later found to be correct.

Ok, I admit that this observation can be interesting. Could you present us the precise words in which this is said in the Quran? I know that it's not easy to translate arabic to another language, but please translate it with the least amount of interpretation, as rough as possible.

Another thing: is it true that the Quran contains many hundreds, maybe thousands of statements or claims about the nature of material things, like this one about comets? Have you tried to search for statements that are not true?
For example the Bible contains dozens of statements that are clearly wrong, I don't have examples that I can present out of memory but I've seen many. Even if the Bible would contain an interesting observation like the one in the Quran about comets, then I would point to the many claims that are not true.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

Don’t you think that this fact alone merits detailed study and scrutiny of the book? And would it not be a serious and meaningful exercise?

Why bother? By your logic, the information in it will be useless.

"Thus I find that the specific information given by the book negating the knowledge and perception of people which they held at that point of time was later found to be correct."

Brother {q} wrote
Mazhara wrote:
Don’t you think that this fact alone merits detailed study and scrutiny of the book? And would it not be a serious and meaningful exercise?

Why bother? By your logic, the information in it will be useless.

"Thus I find that the specific information given by the book negating the knowledge and perception of people which they held at that point of time was later found to be correct."

Here is the point. If we take anything out of the context, it may convey a different perception and may change the very nature of the argument advanced. When we see it in the context then we will have to find something conjectural/hypothetical in the book from the knowledge at the present point in time, otherwise we will have to hold the book today as per our level of knowledge as fact.

Reading any book is a serious matter. One has to either accept it or reject it by discarding its version/statement through an argument/fact. Reading a book creates a liability. I started reading this particular book and got caught by its very first introduction which makes an unprecedented claim that it does not contain any conjectural/theory/ wishful/hearsay matter but only a proven fact. And brother I used to claim that I am a truth seeker, now therefore, I cannot run away without thoroughly reading it. I could have done it with any book, religious or otherwise if it had not started with a claim/introduction that it contains nothing but the truth.

Originally Posted by Mazhara

Here is the point. If we take anything out of the context, it may convey a different perception and may change the very nature of the argument advanced. When we see it in the context then we will have to find something conjectural/hypothetical in the book from the knowledge at the present point in time, otherwise we will have to hold the book today as per our level of knowledge as fact.

That would stand to reason for any book, by your logic.

So, you're back at square one attempting to distinguish between books yet holding the book YOU want to hold as a book of fact.

You create a double standard.

That would stand to reason for any book, by your logic.

So, you're back at square one attempting to distinguish between books yet holding the book YOU want to hold as a book of fact.

You create a double standard.

My dear Q,

It is said that man has the tendency of haste. I did not say what you inferred and then judged. I apply the same principle to all the books. Read a book, evaluate its data, if you find it true accept it and then follow it; and if you find things stated therein are merely conjecture, hearsay, un authentic stories, false etc then straight away discard that nothwithstanding how many people in the world respect that.

I have been explaining through lenthy explanations to muslims what Quran says and am thankful to "scientstphilosophertheist" who enlightened me to give the message and lesson of the Book in a precise and short manner
"enlighten, don't proselytize". The purpose of the book is to enlighten people and it is their own choice to accept or refuse to accept.

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

Can someone explain to me if all Muslims are taught to copy and paste meaningless BS onto forums as part of their religion?

Do we not get the same crap from the Christians, too?

Best thing to do is just not respond, and maybe PM a mod. If they're just thumping religious text, they're not asking or doing anything scientific, so they don't belong. It's just spam.

Originally Posted by Wolf

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

Can someone explain to me if all Muslims are taught to copy and paste meaningless BS onto forums as part of their religion?

Do we not get the same crap from the Christians, too?

Best thing to do is just not respond, and maybe PM a mod. If they're just thumping religious text, they're not asking or doing anything scientific, so they don't belong. It's just spam.

well true, but the majority of "amazing" claims have been made by muslims recently(or at least the ones that have stood out as past scientific knowledge) :-D


The thing i find funny is the selective "amazing" claims, wheres the post mentioning the really bad bits

when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness." Sura 18:83-86

or are we still waiting for the scientists to discover this one still

or the numerous ones here

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-embryology.htm

Eh, I just think there's a growing population of Islamic folks on the Internet these days. Islam is a growing presence in the world today due to certain "unforeseen consequences"... :P

[quote="Mazhara"]

The purpose of the book is to enlighten people and it is their own choice to accept or refuse to accept.

The Quran should be immediately discarded. From the get-go we find it's main author was allegedly dictated to by an angel. No real need to go any further than that.

[quote="(Q)"]

Originally Posted by Mazhara

The purpose of the book is to enlighten people and it is their own choice to accept or refuse to accept.

The Quran should be immediately discarded. From the get-go we find it's main author was allegedly dictated to by an angel. No real need to go any further than that.

exactly, that puts it straight into the fiction section in my eyes

Maybe the way to go would be firstly to convince everyone that angels exist, therefore given a crediblility to the source of the book

Good luck with that

Maybe the angel was a beautiful woman, or a time traveling prankster.

Or maybe he was telling the truth...

:P

Honestly, though, since neither you, him, me, or anyone, can be certain, such conjectures are as fruitless as they are boring.