Thread: If there is a god, wouldn't everybody know it?

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M*W: I am perplexed why christians believe there is a god on blind faith only. If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it? If there is a god, why did he make it hard for human beings to understand him? Is god a trickster? Why would a god create us and then confuse us? Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena? There must be something wrong with his plan! Therefore, there is no god who would create people like this. Therefore, there is no god.

Have you ever needed something and there it was, have you ever been thrown off a motorcycle at high speeds and walked away without a scratch? Have you ever been down and ready to quit when salvation comes along and your safe. Why are people so arrogant to think God would just announce himself, herself or itself.

God, the Guardian of Destiny. Perhaps the keeper of the story of life.

Or, conversly, how about people that die stepping out of their cars? How about people that get hit by boulders rolling down a hill onto their speeding cars? How about cancer victims? How about all the other million ills in the world?

The fortuitous circumstances that some people have stories about don't really look like much when you compare them to all the stories good, bad, and neutral that are to be told in the world.

Things sort of balance out.

While I think Christianity is ludicrous, and worthy of contempt, I'm willing to admit that there could be some sort of purpose to the universe. But I don't think there is any reason for humans to be able to decipher it.

I certainly don't think that humans are in any way important on the scale of the cosmos. We're just another life form on one unimportant planet, in an unremarkable solar sytem, in what is probably a low income section of our galaxy. Nothing to see here, keep moving.

In the end the only one that counts is you. The entire universe is irrelevant and may be a ploy to make the prison complete. What you do, what you learn and how you treat others may in the end be the only thing that matters. The way you handle those that wish to harm you, belittle you or interfere with what you feel is right.

In the end a universe without purpose makes for people without purpose. So why do you bother to get up in the morning? I for one don't believe in religion however I do believe in purpose and order. Without purpose we have no hope, no goals, no reason. It would also take a great deal of arrogance to believe everything exists without any beginning or reasoning once so every. It's illogical.

In the end the clockwork of the universe happens for a reason. We may not understand it, be able to detect the mechanisms behind the scenes or the orchestrator(s) behind it. What we consider the vast universe may be a drop in the bucket in the true sense of existence.

"The Matrix" so far is the best thing I've seen to help explain what might be, that the stars we look at in the night sky are actually just projections in our mind. That our bodies don't exist and the laws of physics are a program.

In the end I choose to believe we simple can't see what really is, perhaps by design. To many questions have no answer and no apparent hope of an answer. In time we will learn, when we need to. No sooner, no later.

Originally Posted by (In)Sanity

In the end the only one that counts is you. The entire universe is irrelevant and may be a ploy to make the prison complete. What you do, what you learn and how you treat others may in the end be the only thing that matters. The way you handle those that wish to harm you, belittle you or interfere with what you feel is right.

In the end a universe without purpose makes for people without purpose. So why do you bother to get up in the morning? I for one don't believe in religion however I do believe in purpose and order. Without purpose we have no hope, no goals, no reason. It would also take a great deal of arrogance to believe everything exists without any beginning or reasoning once so every. It's illogical.

In the end the clockwork of the universe happens for a reason. We may not understand it, be able to detect the mechanisms behind the scenes or the orchestrator(s) behind it. What we consider the vast universe may be a drop in the bucket in the true sense of existence.

"The Matrix" so far is the best thing I've seen to help explain what might be, that the stars we look at in the night sky are actually just projections in our mind. That our bodies don't exist and the laws of physics are a program.

In the end I choose to believe we simple can't see what really is, perhaps by design. To many questions have no answer and no apparent hope of an answer. In time we will learn, when we need to. No sooner, no later.

what i don't understand is why do we need a purpose?
just because a lifeform of object has no purpose does that mean it cannot exist?

if you think about the true size and scale of the universe and then think about the lifeforms that might just be awakening to consiousness or finding there way amongst the stars in there own galaxy, how can you be sure that the universe was created to give us a purpose or a reason for existence?
how can we be sure that we aren't just an unknown factor that has arisen in the universe?

Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman

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M*W: I am perplexed why christians believe there is a god on blind faith only.

talk to them without attacking them and you may learn what you need to know.

If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it?

there is a MW does everbody know and accept her? where does the idea that god must be revealed as some sort of entity or being come from?

If there is a god, why did he make it hard for human beings to understand him?

again, where does the idea that it is hard for human beings to understand god come from?

Is god a trickster?

i have to be honest here and say in my personal experience, yes, and a liar and a thief but more too, so much more and all for love.

Why would a god create us and then confuse us?

the question is badly phrased.
why would god create us and then confuse you? i am not confused!

Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena?

to irritate you?? i dont know but that is very judgemental and the type of aggressive personal attack that leads to unproductive threads.

There must be something wrong with his plan! Therefore, there is no god who would create people like this.

you can do better than this. there must be A therfore B does not exist. that seems very narrow minded and i know you have a capacity for greater concepts than this.

Therefore, there is no god.

come on, try! try, try, try.

if you think about the true size and scale of the universe and then think about the lifeforms that might just be awakening to consiousness or finding there way amongst the stars in there own galaxy, how can you be sure that the universe was created to give us a purpose or a reason for existence?
how can we be sure that we aren't just an unknown factor that has arisen in the universe?

Good point, and one I have thought of many times. Still we are part of the mesh. Just like the billions of objects in space that can't support life no matter how hard we or anything else tries. Perhaps it's all for show. What fun would living be if all we had around us is six solid black walls that we could never reach. At least this way we have a pretty picture to look at. We really can't prove the universe even exists, not beyond a doubt. I'm sure it does, but I can't prove it. Because I can't prove or disprove it then it really makes no difference in my life. I have to assume what I see is real, even if it's just designed to appear that way. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Medicine Woman,

Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena?

To rattle the cage you have made for yourself!
And to loooooooooooove you!

It's true.

It's funny how there are people that exist that I just would rather put a large caliber hand gun to their head and blow their brains out, yet somehow being able to control this overwhelming urge has somehow made me stronger. Sure their are people who don't use their turn signals, people who talk on their cells phone in one hand while smoking a cigarette in the other all while driving. Do these people deserve to die, yeah probably. But still we somehow don't just kill each other off. There must be a God, as only a God could keep this from happening

Stupid people suck, and they all say the same about their neighbors. Chances are it's the ones that don't say it that really don't suck. They of course are the truly stupid ones.

In the end you were not ment to get along with everyone, only small groups that are like you and perhaps a few that are totally the opposite. In some cases you will want to kill off those just like you as they are competition for your uniqueness.

The self righteous believe everyone is stupid and also those just like them.

A group of people can get together to talk about the problems with what people are doing in their town and agree one hundred percent, the funny part is that everyone in the town showed up to the meeting.

Some people are just naturally slower then others, they do everything slow. This of course just irritates the people who are just faster then everyone else.

The person who never gets upset will one day either die from the stress or kill someone who may or may not deserve it.

In the end the cows will just eat the grass growing above us.

Originally Posted by (In)Sanity

Have you ever needed something and there it was, have you ever been thrown off a motorcycle at high speeds and walked away without a scratch? Have you ever been down and ready to quit when salvation comes along and your safe. Why are people so arrogant to think God would just announce himself, herself or itself.

To attribute good fortune to a higher power is the same as to attribute it to your good luck pair of socks or your rabbit's foot.

For some, a higher power is an easy, more comprehensible explaination for something we don't understand. For some, a higher power is simply a comforting thought. The concept of a higher power is something you can expect out of a human, out of any living thing with enough intelligence to contemplate such things.

There might be a possibility, however small, that some sort of higher power exists, but I personally am quite confident that the possibility is slim to null. I'm also quite confident that it isn't the type of higher power that is portrayed in the Abrahamic religions; that it isn't all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, all-present, or all-creating; that it isn't even responsible for all that some claim it to be and is simply there.

If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it?

Yes!
I have used this argument before. What about native tribes in South America or Africa that haven't had any contact with the idea of God? They usually have their mythology and Gods. This would seem to me to be the "control group" that proves a single God isn't a universal idea, and that there aren't any universal ideas among native tribes, except that there is a supernatural world which shamans access (usually) through drugs.

"The Matrix" so far is the best thing I've seen to help explain what might be, that the stars we look at in the night sky are actually just projections in our mind. That our bodies don't exist and the laws of physics are a program.

Hollywood depicts reality?

Save me, George Lucas!!!

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M*W: "I am perplexed why christians believe there is a god on blind faith only.
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ellion: "talk to them without attacking them and you may learn what you need to know."
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M*W: Actually, Medicine*Woman has sought peaceful discussions on the forum. If you go back and read some of her posts on sciforums, it was christians who drew first blood, even though Medicine*Woman was not directing her posts to them. Believe it or not, Medicine*Woman is a kind person. (Okay, that's a matter of opinion, but Medicine*Woman is by far more aggressive and controversial than I (her alter-ego).
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M*W: "If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it?
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ellion: "there is a MW does everbody know and accept her?"
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M*W: Of course not, but Medicine*Woman never claimed to be god. In fact, it is Medicine*Woman's web persona to be the antagonistic pot stirrer who everyone loves to hate.
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ellion: "where does the idea that god must be revealed as some sort of entity or being come from?
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M*W: Medicine*Woman posed the question because she believes if there were a god or gods, then certainly those divine creature(s) would want us all to know who they are and what they expect from us. Their existence would be obvious, and there would be no doubt about them, and every human being would follow them completely. Or, if they chose not to follow them, there would be dire consequences that we could see in our lifetime. Even if people didn't respect and follow those god(s), they could not deny their existence.
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M*W: "If there is a god, why did he make it hard for human beings to understand him?"
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ellion: "again, where does the idea that it is hard for human beings to understand god come from?"
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M*W: Well, god hasn't made itself obvious to parts of humanity, so some people, like atheists and other non-theists, have no concept of god. The point is, if there were a god, all humanity would have the same understanding.
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M*W: "Is god a trickster?"
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ellion: "i have to be honest here and say in my personal experience, yes, and a liar and a thief but more too, so much more and all for love."
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M*W: Amen.
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M*W: "Why would a god create us and then confuse us?"
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ellion: "the question is badly phrased. why would god create us and then confuse you? i am not confused!"
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M*W: Well, I'm not confused either, and I didn't mean to imply such. I was referring to a confused humanity in general.
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M*W: "Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena?
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ellion: "to irritate you?? i dont know but that is very judgemental and the type of aggressive personal attack that leads to unproductive threads."
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M*W: My bad. No, they don't irritate me, they have my pity. If I pity them, is that also being judgmental? I pity all theists.
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M*W: "There must be something wrong with his plan! Therefore, there is no god who would create people like this."
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ellion: "you can do better than this. there must be A therfore B does not exist. that seems very narrow minded and i know you have a capacity for greater concepts than this."
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M*W: I meant it in a general sense. If there is a god, then all should know it.
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M*W: "Therefore, there is no god."
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ellion: "come on, try! try, try, try."
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M*W: I did try for 20+ years, and the god I convinced myself to believe in was only a fig newton of my imagination.

Originally Posted by M*W

ellion: "there is a MW does everbody know and accept her?"

Of course not, but Medicine*Woman never claimed to be god.

no, and god never claimed to be medicine woman. because something is unknown and unaccepted doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

she believes if there were a god or gods, then certainly those divine creature(s) would want us all to know who they are and what they expect from us.

these are your beliefs and how you expect the divine to be?

Their existence would be obvious, and there would be no doubt about them, and every human being would follow them completely.

why would they want that?

Or, if they chose not to follow them, there would be dire consequences that we could see in our lifetime.

when we expereince these dire consequences in our own lifetime maybe we will realise what a fucking mess we made and try not to do it again ever, even forever and ever.

Well, god hasn't made itself obvious to parts of humanity, so some people, like atheists and other non-theists, have no concept of god. The point is, if there were a god, all humanity would have the same understanding.

this returns to your expectations of what god would be doing if he where existing. where do these beliefs originate?

Well, I'm not confused either, and I didn't mean to imply such. I was referring to a confused humanity in general.

so i am okay and youre okay but the general population is confused? is that because of god? i mean would they be confused anyway and may there be a purpose for the confusion?

If I pity them, is that also being judgmental?

do you feel like you know better than them like they are mental or spiritual paupers? i often feel that pity has the connotation of a superior position.

I did try for 20+ years, and the god I convinced myself to believe in was only a fig newton of my imagination.

that does sound like an false god. we can be decieved by ourselves and those who know what strings to pull.

I am perplexed why christians believe there is a god on blind faith only.

I do not believe in God on blind faith only...I abhorr the idea of blind faith. I believe in God because the idea of his existance does not rest on empirical evidence of his power (then money would be just as much of a mystery) but rather the belief that he brings humanity to a higher plain of being. That may not be enough...but its enough for me.

If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it?

I have personally struggled with this question...but in a different way. If there was a God why would there be so many other religions which contradict each other? Isn't the concept of God to be omnipotent and objective to all people's? That is what I struggle with...

If there is a god, why did he make it hard for human beings to understand him? Is god a trickster?

It is not only God which humans find hard to understand, you name it humans have a real hard time understanding just about anything. Human beings are limited beings, we are limited by our senses by our experiences, we cannot transcend ourselves or our society or world...I think it is possible that God made it hard to understand him to see if people can have faith even when there isn't evidence for his existance, which I must admit...scares me a little.

Why would a god create us and then confuse us?

Humans confuse humans...God is unchanging as is his message...we humans are the problem we cannot to get what God meant right and we never will.

Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena? There must be something wrong with his plan! Therefore, there is no god who would create people like this. Therefore, there is no god.

God created people we consider bad because they are there to remind us why we have our morals...be it religiously based or not. They are our examples...

Undecided,

What you seem to be describing in your last post (and others) is blind faith.

I believe in God because the idea of his existance does not rest on empirical evidence of his power (then money would be just as much of a mystery)

This confuses me. As a reason to believe in god, I can see no sense in it.

...because something is unknown and unaccepted doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This, or some form of it, is a mantra among people who subscribe to belief in anything. I wish supposedly intelligent people would stop saying this.

"Just because you can't find proof of ______ dosen't mean it dosen't exist".

This is an obvious simplistic statement that adds nothing to a discussion. You might as well say "Fortsniggle, the reglap frumps the quanter so there!"

Originally Posted by superluminal

"Just because you can't find proof of ______ dosen't mean it dosen't exist".

this is true.

"Fortsniggle, the reglap frumps the quanter so there!"

this is nonsense.

Originally Posted by superluminal

...because something is unknown and unaccepted doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This, or some form of it, is a mantra among people who subscribe to belief in anything. I wish supposedly intelligent people would stop saying this.

"Just because you can't find proof of ______ dosen't mean it dosen't exist".

This is an obvious simplistic statement that adds nothing to a discussion. You might as well say "Fortsniggle, the reglap frumps the quanter so there!"

Furthermore, it's easy to twist that line of logic to back the Atheistic view. "Just because you think __ is there doesn't mean it is."

maybe ____ is right under our noses.

Basicaly when i think of all the religions in this world we can see that all of them worship some idea or principal manifested as an entity.

when you worship God aren't you just worshiping everything that our idea of God stands for?

If this is true it just means that we are worshiping what is the ultimate spiritual goal of the human race, one which is moraly just, considerate, forgiving and powerful.

think about it if you refer the word God in the bible, all the main principals of it any way, to the human race you get the idea that it is not God that defines our pupose, created us, or will destroy us. but is in actual fact ourselves.

i.e we created human civilization, we control our destiny, wem define our purpose and we will be the architect of our own demise.

ultimately it's up to us.

Originally Posted by wallaby

maybe ____ is right under our noses.

maybe!

when you worship God aren't you just worshiping everything that our idea of God stands for?

more like everything that you understand god to be.

one which is moraly just, considerate, forgiving and powerful.

is this what your idea of god stands for?

If there is a god, wouldn't everybody know it?

Every body knows it, however not everyone follows the same god concept. This is why there's a thousand religions all claiming that theirs is the true religion and the way to salvation.

What is immoral is when these D.S. (dip-sh*ts) Force their idealogies on to a population of ingnorant masses. And this is exactly what has happened through much of the history of religions of several denominations.

Is there a god? I claim ingnorance, though I'm an atheist cause I don't believe the assertions of theists. There's no emperical evidence that such an entity need exist or that it does exist, however we are told that it's beyond our "comprehencion" so I wonder why the hell there so many damn advocates claiming to know what god is thinking or knowledge of it's existence and so forth..

no, and god never claimed to be medicine woman. because something is unknown and unaccepted doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This works both ways buddy! Just because so many claim the existence of such an entity does not mean that it actually exists.

God was spawned from ingnorance, when humans were first becoming conscious and attempted their explanation of metaphisics, any thing tha couldn't be understood got labeled "god did it" Thus the birth of the Dark Ages! when idiots ruled the world!.

Godless

Godless,

God was spawned from ingnorance, when humans were first becoming conscious and attempted their explanation of metaphisics, any thing tha couldn't be understood got labeled "god did it"

You do know that you have no way of proving this assumption?

Thus the birth of the Dark Ages! when idiots ruled the world!.

As if nowadays, it were any different.

Originally Posted by godless

no, and god never claimed to be medicine woman. because something is unknown and unaccepted doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This works both ways buddy!

i am aware there is a postition that stands in opposition to this perspective, it was that opposite perspective that gave rise to this response.

Just because so many claim the existence of such an entity does not mean that it actually exists.

you are right and this has an opposite perspective too, does it not?

God was spawned from ingnorance, when humans were first becoming conscious and attempted their explanation of metaphisics, any thing tha couldn't be understood got labeled "god did it" Thus the birth of the Dark Ages! when idiots ruled the world!.

youre wrong! god made man out of little bits of platiscine and painted him with egg tempera, then god waved a magic wand and whispered the secret word into his ears, and man had life. this is obviously so because we still have ears! you just cant understand because you were a naughty boy.

What you seem to be describing in your last post (and others) is blind faith.

I take offence to that because I actually explain my rationale for believing, blind faith would not need justification for that belief. I would like you to show me where and explain how what I said can be stated as "blind faith"?

This confuses me. As a reason to believe in god, I can see no sense in it.

It is not a reason to believe in God, if you believe in God for that reason then I agree you might as well shouldn't. What I was saying was that to claim that God does not exist because we cannot empirically prove him, or his powers does not mean it is not there. Empirically speaking money has no power, it has not effect, it is worthless...yet why is it that money is the most important thing in this world? If we are going to use the logic of "because I cannot see it it does not exist" then much of what science bases itself on...like gravity,etc are also based on "blind faith" in rationality.

you just cant understand because you were a naughty boy.

Good little boys go to heaven, naughty little boys go everywere else!.

You do know that you have no way of proving this assumption?

You! Want Prooooof!! You can't handle the truth!.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/Misc%2...evelations.htm

http://www.psywww.com/psyrelig/mental.htm

http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/enlightenment/id13.html

Bite the bullet! Religions seemed to have spawn from ingnorance and schizophrenics!.

Godless

Originally Posted by Godless

Bite the bullet! Religions seemed to have spawn from ingnorance and schizophrenics!.

You talk about proof, and all you can give is a "seemed"?!?!

Shame on you.

is this what your idea of god stands for?

me no... i'm an Athiest.

but i know of a lot of people who have that idea.
not to apply it to everybody.

"some humans mind cannot let go thanks to the awesome power of indoctrination/brainwashing"

And since you are constantly confused Water!, you have a problem reading links? There's no absolute, this is why it SEEMS, that a god exists, though the obvious is dellusional, when there's no EVIDENCE of it's existence!. Thus the god concept spawned off schizophrenics who heard voices in their head!.

Godless

Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman

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M*W: I am perplexed why christians believe there is a god on blind faith only. If there were a god, wouldn't everybody know it and accept it? If there is a god, why did he make it hard for human beings to understand him? Is god a trickster? Why would a god create us and then confuse us? Why would a creator god create people like water and woody and jan ardena? There must be something wrong with his plan! Therefore, there is no god who would create people like this. Therefore, there is no god.

No, everyone would not know it. There are evil spirits (devils) that live in another dimension, (spirit world) which have telepathic contact to the minds of men. They try hard to deceive men to cause them to go to hell and miss heaven. They try hard to prevent men from believing in the true God. They succeed with many people. God is allowing Satan and his devils to have the power to deceive, to test men, to see who is worthy to become an angel of God in the afterlife, and who is not worthy. This will determine who goes to heaven to be happy and who goes to hell to be miserable. The scriptures plainly say that most will fail the test and go to hell.
[If you don't believe in other dimensions, consider this. Your mind's functions, its thoughts, desires, memories do really exist, but not in the physical world. They exist in a mental dimension.]

2 corinthians 4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[god of this world, with a small g, is referring to Satan, in that verse 4. God, referring to the creator, has a large G in that scripture.

The truth of God will be found in the King James version New Testament. Ask God to show you the proper understanding of it before you read it.

PS - I don't believe in God on blind faith only. I did an experiment to test for the existence of God, and the results of my experiment showed me that there is a God and Christianity is the only religion He accepts.
Actually Jesus Christ, the Lord, appeared to me and paraphrased New Testament scripture to me as it applied to me. That was part of the results of my experiment.

ghost7584:

PS - I don't believe in God on blind faith only. I did an experiment to test for the existence of God, and the results of my experiment showed me that there is a God and Christianity is the only religion He accepts.
Actually Jesus Christ, the Lord, appeared to me and paraphrased New Testament scripture to me as it applied to me. That was part of the results of my experiment.

Holy shit! An actual experiment we can examine! Ok ghost. Let's have it. Describe the experiment please. I'm very excited to hear! Really!

No, everyone would not know it. There are evil spirits (devils) that live in another dimension, (spirit world) which have telepathic contact to the minds of men.

Oh! please, this is a SCIENCE FORUM!! in other word buddy, get some emperical evidence for the non-sense above and people in the scientific cummunity may believe what now sounds dellusional mind set.

Do you really believe the BS you tiped, please seek some psychological help, before you go claiming some god/or devil made you commit a crime!.

http://www.newcriminologist.co.uk/pr...?id=1590324709

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/sep01/other.html

Godless

Originally Posted by ghost7584

There are evil spirits (devils) that live in another dimension, (spirit world)

it's monday the 11th of july at 14.41.
"WAKE UP!" get you head out of the clouds, and come back down to earth.
it only takes one instant of a thing to prove it exists, still waiting, as did, all my ancestors.
you are now entering the "outer limits".

Originally Posted by superluminal

ghost7584:

PS - I don't believe in God on blind faith only. I did an experiment to test for the existence of God, and the results of my experiment showed me that there is a God and Christianity is the only religion He accepts.
Actually Jesus Christ, the Lord, appeared to me and paraphrased New Testament scripture to me as it applied to me. That was part of the results of my experiment.

Holy shit! An actual experiment we can examine! Ok ghost. Let's have it. Describe the experiment please. I'm very excited to hear! Really!

Foreword: Experimental controls are important to the successful outcome of any experiment. The experimental controls that I list are important for this particular experiment. This is in my files; here is the long version of the experiment. All of this true, I am not making it up.
I also elaborated on why this is a real experiment considering what I was testing for; -- the existence of God.

I have a Bachelor's degree in Physics. I did a scientific experiment
to test for the
existence of God. I simply looked up to the ceiling and asked God to
give me
evidence that He really existed so that I would know and not just
believe. I did this
several times over a period of weeks or months. I assumed that if He
really did
exist, He would do this because He loved me and didn't want me to go
to hell. [That attitude is one of the experimental controls.] I
did this as a serious experiment; it's either true or it isn't. I was
an agnostic
science student at the time. Later I got involved in
parapsychology and found out that there really are people that can
heal by the
laying on of hands as Jesus did and they are being studied by
scientists. The Aura energy field around a healer's body can transmit
healing energy to the body
of the patient; this can be filmed by a technique called Kirlian
photography.
http://www.synergy-co.com/kirlian1-6.html
So the healing miracles of Jesus could be true. Later I studied UFOs
and a UFO
researcher pointed out that there are flying objects in the Bible that
are associated
with angels that look like the UFOs that people are taking photgraphs
of today.
So, Bible stories of angels could be true too. I got a book on the
occult. It said
that certain sensitive people and psychics can see into the spirit
world; they can
see little glimpses of spiritual beings that look like points of light
in the air. I
started reading the New testament to see what it said. Around this
time I started
hearing evil and threatening thoughts coming into my mind as if from
somewhere
else, they weren't my thoughts. I also started seeing little colored
flashes of light
in the air around the time I heard these evil thoughts; they were like
visions, not
really in the physical world. I decided that this was evidence that
demons exist
and they were attacking me with evil thoughts trying to stop me from
becoming a
christian; I saw glimpses into the spirit world during these attacks
that looked like
little colored points of light in the air, like the occult book said.
Then one night
when I was asleep, I saw a night vision of Jesus talking to me; it
seemed like He
was really there, it was not a dream. I had an
overwhelming feeling during this vision like I knew that He had all
the power in the
universe; like anything He commands to happen will happen. I heard His
voice
paraphrasing something written in the Bible.
He called me by my name
and said, you must die before you enter society. Unless the seed die,
the tree cannot bear good fruit. All trees that do not bear fruit,
will be cut down. He was paraphrasing this scripture in the New
Testament:
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat
fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it
bringeth forth much fruit.
This scripture goes along with these that follow it.
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth
his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am,
there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my
Father honour.
The interpretation is that when a man comes to Jesus for salvation, to
be saved from hell, that man must allow his old way of living to die,
and he must take on a new life of serving Jesus, so that he can bear
good fruit for the Kingdom of God.
Immediately after that I woke up. I asked God to give me proof; He
gave me
proof. I have been a fundamentalist christian ever since. If you
really want proof,
ask for it seriously, like I did. Have the idea in your mind that if
God really does prove Himself, then you will serve Him.
That is one of the experimental controls.
In the New Testament Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the
life. No one comes to the Father but
by Me. The only way to get to God is through Jesus Christ, all other
ways are
false. It is not enough just to know that God exists, you can only get
to heaven
through christianity all other religions lead to hell. When Jesus spoke
I heard one word after another like normal speech, but when I thought
about it, all of the words seemed to have happened at the same time.
It was like time did not make any sense. His voice was like that of
any normal man, not to deep, and not too high in pitch. The words
seemed to fill my entire being as if they were put into me with real
power.
This happened to me in 1975. Jesus was coming to me in a darkened room
so I did not get a completely clear look at him. At the time, I
thought he looked similar to Max Von Sidow in the movie THE GREATEST
STORY EVER TOLD, except His hair was all the way down to His
shoulders; longer than in the movie. I did notice darkness around His
chin as if He had a short beard. His face is different from Max Von
Sydow's but there are similarities. He seems to look younger than
that, and more cheerful.
When He said the words, "will be cut down", the tone of His voice
changed as if He did not want to frighten me. After the words were
finished, He put His hand on my back and smiled at me and disappeared.

You need to consider what type of a test I was doing. I was probing
for an answer to a question that is not bound to the physical world.
True reality as we observe it is composed of the physical world, which
is easily tested by physics and chemistry, and it is also composed of
the mental dimension, which does really exist, but not in the physical
world. [Your thoughts and desires and will do really exist, but not in
the physical world. They are connected to the physical world by your
physical body.] If God does exist, as He is described, then He is like
a universal mind or consciousness, that created everything and is in
control of everything. To test for a universal mind, I needed to do an
unusual experiment. The reason that I decided that these points of
light were evidence of demons is because of this:
The occult book that dealt with demons and spirits said that glimpses
into the Spirit world looked like points of light in the air.
And also, I would hear evil voices in my mind, threatening me and
saying the kind of things that demons would say [threats, insults
against me and God, etc...], and I heard these thoughts as if they
were coming from the points of light. As if the points of light were
appearing, saying these things to me telepathically, so that I heard
them in my mind, and then disappearing.
This was surely a phenomenon that looked to me like attacks by evil
spirits or demons. After I became a Christian I prayed to Jesus Christ
to ask Him to protect me from the attacks of demons, and the problem
went away. According to the Bible, the Devil and his demons are
controlling everyone that is not a real Christian, to a greater or
lesser degree. (Some people are completely demon possessed.) When you
try to become a Christian, you are breaking free from the demon's
control and that is when you will notice them trying to fight against
you. If Satan already has you moving in the wrong direction, he does
not need to fight you; he has already got you. Try to become a real
Christian, and try to break free from the Devil's control, then he
will start to fight against you to try to prevent you from becoming a
Christian and getting right with God. This is what the evidence
suggests that I was experiencing when I started to become a Christian,
in 1975.
Also, these points of light that I was seeing, looked like little
visions, not like a real physical phenomenon that happens in the
physical world. Therefore, I did not consider that a physical form of
energy was of any importance here. Physical energy of the sort that
physics studies, might not have been involved.
Remember, the mental dimension is real and does exist, but not in the
physical world, just like your thoughts and desires exist, but not in
the physical world. Your mind is connected to the physical world
through your physical body, so there is a definite connection between
these two different dimensions. Both dimensions really exist.
I had to do an unusual type of experiment because of the unususal
nature of what I was testing for: - The Existence of God.

Experimental controls associated with my experiment:
Believe that if God really exists then He does care about you and He
does not want you to go to hell. Believe that He would prove Himself
to you to prevent you from going to Hell, if He really does exist.
Ask God to prove to you that He exists, several times over a period of
weeks or months. Have the idea that if He really does prove Himself, then
you will serve Him, - which means read the New Testament and try to obey it.
Have patience to wait for the proof.
I was involved in Science and that is the kind of proof that God gave
me. If you are involved in something else God will probably prove
Himself to you in a way that you can best understand. He meets you
where you are at.


Jesus Christ said:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and
preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.

The New Testament, of the Christian
Bible, is the real way that leads to heaven and to God. (The King
James version is the most accurate.)
You can read the New Testament for free online at this website:
http://www.usaquality.com/bible/list_bcv/all.html
You can listen to the New Testament being read by someone else, for
free online at this website:
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html Start with Matthew
and go all the way through to Revelation.
It is good to ask God to teach you what the New Testament really means
before you read it or listen to it.

Caution: Devils really exist and they have telepathic contact to the minds of men. How much control Satan and his devils have over your thinking right now will affect the experiment to some extent. If you manage to become a really saved Christian, God's Holy Spirit will be sent to you, to break you free from the devil's deceptions.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.


[Proper use of experimental controls is important to the success of any experiment.]
God looks on the heart. If you are just playing a game or unwilling to serve Him, He will know it, and may withold the knowledge from you because you are not worthy to receive it.
Jesus said He taught in parables so that the crowd just passing by would not know what He was talking about. The explanation of the parables was given only to the disciples that decided to follow Him.- There are scriptures that show this.

Originally Posted by Ghostxxxx

I have a Bachelor's degree in Physics. I did a scientific experiment
to test for the
existence of God.

Did it cost $199 from Rochville "university?". You should get your money back.

Originally Posted by SkinWalker

Originally Posted by Ghostxxxx

I have a Bachelor's degree in Physics. I did a scientific experiment
to test for the
existence of God.

Did it cost $199 from Rochville "university?". You should get your money back.

I already know that intellectuals are among the hardest people to convince of the existence of God. Nevertheless, the truth will be presented. God exists, and Christianity is His religion. Like Mr. Ripley said: BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
[By the way, if you don't believe it, you'll be damned, according to the bible.]
Mark:
16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Corinthians 1:
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

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Hmm

Originally Posted by ghost7584

I already know that intellectuals are among the hardest people to convince of the existence of God. Nevertheless, the truth will be presented. God exists, and Christianity is His religion.

Where's the proof; the evidence? Even in your thread that claimed to be "scientific evidence of god's existence" there doesn't appear to be any. I might as well worship "Cthulhu". Lovecraft might've had it right.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Like Mr. Ripley said: BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

Like Mr. Flinstone said: YabaDabaDoo.

E = MC2 Disproves Biblegod;

Biblegod Has Infinite Energy

Many Christians claim, without any evidence whatsoever, that Biblegod's energy and power is infinite. Their technical term for this unfounded claim is “omnipotence”. According to several major dictionaries...



OMNIPOTENT:

· An agency or force of unlimited power.1

· Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.2

· Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.3

· Omnipotent adj : having unlimited power [syn: almighty, all-powerful]4

· Having virtually unlimited authority or influence.5

· Strictly said of God (or of a deity) or His attributes: Almighty or infinite in power.6



You can see by the definitions that omnipotent means a source of energy that is all-powerful, a "force of unlimited power", and thus an energy source that is without limits; or as the last definition states, "infinite in power". But do many Christians believe their Biblegod HAS such awesome power? Indeed they do, as you can see for yourself below.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/evange...stein_emc2.htm

Does The Biblegod Exist?

http://campus.fortunecity.com/defiant/666/nogod.html

Ghost, not only have you not explained what god is, but you do write rhetoric pretty good!.

Try again bud, try to explain your god, without any blibical text, see if you can prove the existence of a deity without using any religious text written by dellusional schizophrenics!.

Godless

the thing i really hate about religion is that beliving in it is like living in a dictatorship.

If you don't do as the God/dictator says you suffer for all eternity.
If you don't do what the God/dictator says it's Eternal damnation.
If you have an opinion on the matter or through your own free will come to think of something else is true you get sent to hell.

why is this being who is supposedly suposed to love us all so liberal about sending us to hell.
not to mention that supposedly he created us the way we are in the first place.

i'll bet he's getting a real kick out of being in control of everything.

ghost:

Around this
time I started
hearing evil and threatening thoughts coming into my mind as if from
somewhere
else, they weren't my thoughts. I also started seeing little colored
flashes of light
in the air around the time I heard these evil thoughts; they were like
visions, not
really in the physical world. I decided that this was evidence that
demons exist
and they were attacking me with evil thoughts trying to stop me from
becoming a
christian; I saw glimpses into the spirit world during these attacks
that looked like
little colored points of light in the air, like the occult book said.

ghost,

Seriously, this sounds like a neurological condition, possibly a tumor. If these symptoms are persistent, you should immediately check into a hospital and describe exactly what you are experiencing. Best of luck to you.

a day in the life...

Around this time I started hearing evil and threatening thoughts coming into my mind as if from somewhere else, they weren't my thoughts.

I decided that this was evidence that demons exist and they were attacking me with evil thoughts trying to stop me from becoming a christian

Then one night when I was asleep, I saw a night vision of Jesus talking to me

Immediately after that I woke up. I asked God to give me proof; He gave me proof. I have been a fundamentalist christian ever since.

Seriously Ghost you should be worried...

go get a check up and then come back and spread your non-sense.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Originally Posted by superluminal

ghost7584:

PS - I don't believe in God on blind faith only. I did an experiment to test for the existence of God, and the results of my experiment showed me that there is a God and Christianity is the only religion He accepts.
Actually Jesus Christ, the Lord, appeared to me and paraphrased New Testament scripture to me as it applied to me. That was part of the results of my experiment.

Holy shit! An actual experiment we can examine! Ok ghost. Let's have it. Describe the experiment please. I'm very excited to hear! Really!

Foreword: Experimental controls are important to the successful outcome of any experiment. The experimental controls that I list are important for this particular experiment. This is in my files; here is the long version of the experiment. All of this true, I am not making it up.
I also elaborated on why this is a real experiment considering what I was testing for; -- the existence of God.

I have a Bachelor's degree in Physics. I did a scientific experiment
to test for the existence of God. I simply looked up to the ceiling and asked God to give me evidence that He really existed so that I would know and not just believe. I did this several times over a period of weeks or months. I assumed that if He really did exist, He would do this because He loved me and didn't want me to go to hell. [That attitude is one of the experimental controls.] I did this as a serious experiment; it's either true or it isn't. I was an agnostic science student at the time.

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you think the phrase "experimental control" means, because it evidently is not what science understands by experimental control, particularly when you come to the end of this and you write your conclusions.

That God loves you and doesn't want you to go to hell is a good thing to test for, but it's not a good assumption to make. As Jesus said, "Put not the Lord thy God to the test."

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Later I got involved in parapsychology and found out that there really are people that can heal by the laying on of hands as Jesus did and they are being studied by scientists. The Aura energy field around a healer's body can transmit healing energy to the body of the patient; this can be filmed by a technique called Kirlian photography.
http://www.synergy-co.com/kirlian1-6.html
So the healing miracles of Jesus could be true.

First of all, you have consorted with mystics and dabblers in the occult and ghosts - which is a sin. And secondly you have concluded that because there are miraculous healers other than Jesus, then Jesus's healing miracles were possible - which is heresy.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Later I studied UFOs and a UFO researcher pointed out that there are flying objects in the Bible that are associated with angels that look like the UFOs that people are taking photgraphs of today.

So, Bible stories of angels could be true too.

If the photos of UFOs can stand up, which they can't.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

I got a book on the occult. It said that certain sensitive people and psychics can see into the spirit world; they can see little glimpses of spiritual beings that look like points of light in the air. I started reading the New testament to see what it said.

Around this time I started hearing evil and threatening thoughts coming into my mind as if from somewhere else, they weren't my thoughts. I also started seeing little colored flashes of light in the air around the time I heard these evil thoughts; they were like visions, not really in the physical world. I decided that this was evidence that demons exist and they were attacking me with evil thoughts trying to stop me from becoming a
christian; I saw glimpses into the spirit world during these attacks that looked like little colored points of light in the air, like the occult book said.

Then one night when I was asleep, I saw a night vision of Jesus talking to me; it seemed like He was really there, it was not a dream. I had an overwhelming feeling during this vision like I knew that He had all the power in the universe; like anything He commands to happen will happen. I heard His voice paraphrasing something written in the Bible. He called me by my name and said, you must die before you enter society. Unless the seed die, the tree cannot bear good fruit. All trees that do not bear fruit, will be cut down. He was paraphrasing this scripture in the New Testament:
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This scripture goes along with these that follow it.
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth
his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am,
there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my
Father honour.

The interpretation is that when a man comes to Jesus for salvation, to be saved from hell, that man must allow his old way of living to die, and he must take on a new life of serving Jesus, so that he can bear good fruit for the Kingdom of God. Immediately after that I woke up.

To which superluminal replied

Originally Posted by superluminal

ghost,

Seriously, this sounds like a neurological condition, possibly a tumor. If these symptoms are persistent, you should immediately check into a hospital and describe exactly what you are experiencing. Best of luck to you.

I really wouldn't worry about it, superluminal. If you didn't read thoroughly, these events took place thirty years ago, in fact. Rather than assume that ghost has a tumour or that he has undiagnosed schizophrenia, I prefer to consider that it's not unlikely ghost wasn't eating or sleeping properly at the time of his experience, and triggered the hallucinations he described.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

It was like time did not make any sense. His voice was like that of any normal man, not to deep, and not too high in pitch. The words seemed to fill my entire being as if they were put into me with real power.
This happened to me in 1975. Jesus was coming to me in a darkened room so I did not get a completely clear look at him. At the time, I
thought he looked similar to Max Von Sidow in the movie THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD, except His hair was all the way down to His shoulders; longer than in the movie. I did notice darkness around His chin as if He had a short beard. His face is different from Max Von Sydow's but there are similarities. He seems to look younger than
that, and more cheerful. When He said the words, "will be cut down", the tone of His voice changed as if He did not want to frighten me. After the words were finished, He put His hand on my back and smiled at me and disappeared.

It's rather disturbing that you didn't recognise the fact that, as Jesus appeared to you almost exactly as he was depicted in a motion picture, it was less rather than more likely to be the real Jesus, and much much more likely to be a figment of your imagination.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

I had to do an unusual type of experiment because of the unususal nature of what I was testing for: - The Existence of God.

Experimental controls associated with my experiment:
Believe that if God really exists then He does care about you and He does not want you to go to hell.

That's a pretty big slice of question begging.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Believe that He would prove Himself to you to prevent you from going to Hell, if He really does exist.

You were putting God to the test. Also almost two thousand years of Christianity and billions of Christians have together managed quite well on faith alone. Many different people, from the simplest peasant, to the mightiest theologian have concluded that the very strength of God lies in proofless faith in him. Martin Luther did not require proof from God, but apparently you do. Also, you believe that God is going to prove himself to you when you specifically ask him to. Such arrogance! Such pride! Such self-glorification! Did you never consider how much peril your attitude might have put your mortal soul in?

Originally Posted by ghost7584

Ask God to prove to you that He exists, several times over a period of weeks or months.
Have the idea that if He really does prove Himself, then you will serve Him, - which means read the New Testament and try to obey it.

Your Christianity is conditional, then? If God really does prove Himself, Then you'll consent to work for him. I don't think an atheist could have put it any better! You are blaspheming and you don't even recognise it.

Originally Posted by ghost7584

I was involved in Science and that is the kind of proof that God gave me. If you are involved in something else God will probably prove Himself to you in a way that you can best understand. He meets you where you are at.

The most sincere reverend would, if you explained all this to him or her, probably chastise you quite soundly, and also would tell you that you have been deluding yourself. And that your steadfast adherence to the Bible and the teachings of Jesus are worth nothing, if you only obtained your belief after asking God to prove himself. They would probably tell you that you were doing the work of the Devil, and the Devil misled you into believing that God had indeed proved himself. And that that proof and your subsequent Christian work was consequently worthless.

Originally Posted by (In)Sanity

In the end a universe without purpose makes for people without purpose. So why do you bother to get up in the morning? I for one don't believe in religion however I do believe in purpose and order. Without purpose we have no hope, no goals, no reason..

Yes. I agree with that totally. Though I would say that the purpose comes from one's emotional world. How do we feel? Do we feel positive about life, and want to get up in morning, or negative, and just the opposite. I would say that our purpose and reason stem from our emotional status.
Many would perhaps say that the emotional status relies upon an acknowledgement of God's existence, and upon our love of God and so on. If one wants to express things in those terms, then why not. One doesn't even need to use the word "God". There can simply be a sense of "something which is not something". A declared atheist may have such a sense, although they would object to the application of the word 'God". People are people, whatever they call themselves.