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Thread: Why do christians fear atheists?

  1. #1 Why do christians fear atheists? 
    Forum Freshman Medicine*Woman's Avatar
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    M*W: In all the posts by christians hating atheists, there is one recurring theme -- they obviously fear us! Oh, they may say they don't agree with us, and that's okay. They even become threatening and aggressive toward us, and we can deal with that, too. But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us? Are we everything they don't want to be? Or, could there possibly be a shred of doubt in each of their minds about what they presume to believe? My opinion is that they fear us because we might be right, and if so, it would be a christian's worst nightmare if maybe, just maybe, we know the reality about their fantasy.[/b]


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    there is little difference between you and that which you despise so fervently,


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    Forum Freshman Medicine*Woman's Avatar
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    ellion: there is little difference between you and that which you despise so fervently,
    *************
    M*W: What I "despise so fervently" are fantasies and other religious lies.
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    MW,

    As atheists we require simple proof for matters of objective reality (cars, trees, ufos, gods...).

    As theists, they also require proof for matters of objective reality, with one exception.

    If you insist to a theist or an atheist that invisible alien hexapods from Tau Ceti are camping out on his/her doorstep, they will say "prove it you silly person!" and rightly so.

    However, if you insist to a theist or an atheist that the invisible spirit of god (jesus, allah, yaweh, etc...) is camped out on their doorstep the atheist will still say "prove it you silly person!" while the theist will say "of course. God is everywhere!".

    Why? A combination of three things.

    1) Childhood indoctrination.

    2) A willingness to suspend disbelief to assuage a fear of death.

    3) A childish wish for a father figure to take care of them.

    These things are powerful and subconscious in most theists. The very simple fact is that theists know they have no proof in the accepted sense of the word.

    So, when you attack an atheist he can respond with endless proven facts and sound reasoning that show theists ideas to be completely baseless and to exist only as artifacts of one of the above conditions.

    If you attack a theist, what can he do? He pulls out the bible, he quotes other theists (as if that meant anything), and resorts to "I KNOW I have a soul! I feel sooo sorry for you. Boo hoo." Followed by any number of incoherent ravings.

    Eventually, the atheist, out of complete frustration, can be expected to label the theist as stupid, assinine, and childish. If we keep in mind though, that the theist is burdened by a weakened mind as demonstrated by one or more of the above conditions, we should feel as much pity for them as they feel for us. More so.

    Why do they fear us? We represent the loss of their childhood security blanket and their immortality. We represent (in their minds) hopeless dispair. We are adults and they are children. That's why.
    Huh?
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    M*W: You've explained it very well. Thank you.
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    Just IMHO.
    Huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    ellion: there is little difference between you and that which you despise so fervently,
    *************
    M*W: What I "despise so fervently" are fantasies and other religious lies.
    why do does it aoruse you so much that you need to attack with such passion? there is something in you which is really hurt by these ideas, something which needs to lash out and destroy the ideas of other people who are different. its a very insecure something that desperately needs reassurance, that it is right. what is it? what are you defending? what are you defending against? what is so fearful about other people seeing the world differently?
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  9. #8  
    Forum Junior superluminal's Avatar
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    what is so fearful about other people seeing the world differently?
    Just my two cents worth. In the context of religion:

    - Genocide
    - Crusades
    - Jihads
    - Intellectual suppression
    - Evangelism (prosletyzing)
    - Marginalization of entire populations based on religion
    - Burning people on sticks or otherwise hanging them on sticks
    ...
    Huh?
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    ...
    - Denigration of females
    - Suppression of medical research (stem cells)
    - Selfrighteous condemnation of ANYONE with a different worldview
    ...
    Huh?
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    Forum Freshman ellion's Avatar
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    and your going to stop all this by arguing with people on this forum? WOW! thats fucking amazing!
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  12. #11  
    Forum Junior superluminal's Avatar
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    ellion:

    and your going to stop all this by arguing with people on this forum? WOW! thats fucking amazing!
    WOW! That's a fucking big leap to make given that this is just a silly web forum discussion! WOW!
    Huh?
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    remember that time not so long ago when the Earth was inhabited by people carrying swords, riding horses and wearing armor. (thats the glamorous version)

    i belive it has been refered to as the Dark ages seeing as for a period of 1300 years a lot of humanity was oppressed by a feudal system in which the kings and religeous people got incredibly rich and held all the power.

    It didn't work out!
    Humanity in Europe did not make a single significant technological or artistic advancement in that whole time.

    the Muslims were making advances but then they got hit with Crusades and Mongols.

    The point here is that Religion provided us with a huge technological and scientific set back. can you imagine where we might be today if we had that extra thousand years?
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    Quote Originally Posted by superluminal
    WOW! That's a fucking big leap to make given that this is just a silly web forum discussion! WOW!
    yeah EXACTLY! i think it can be taken as a certainty that no one on this forum is commiting
    Quote Originally Posted by superluminal
    - Genocide
    - Crusades
    - Jihads
    - Intellectual suppression
    - Evangelism (prosletyzing)an exceptio
    n
    - Marginalization of entire populations based on religion
    - Burning people on sticks or otherwise hanging them on sticks
    granted if this happening we should do our best to stop it however criticising each others beliefs is not going to stop anything except productive communication.


    - Selfrighteous condemnation of ANYONE with a different worldview
    and this is what i see happening from both sides. there are atheists and thiests guilty of this, right here on this forum, riight here in this thread and right there in the very first opening post.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    remember that time not so long ago when the Earth was inhabited by people carrying swords, riding horses and wearing armor. (thats the glamorous version)

    i belive it has been refered to as the Dark ages seeing as for a period of 1300 years a lot of humanity was oppressed by a feudal system in which the kings and religeous people got incredibly rich and held all the power.

    It didn't work out!
    Humanity in Europe did not make a single significant technological or artistic advancement in that whole time.

    the Muslims were making advances but then they got hit with Crusades and Mongols.

    The point here is that Religion provided us with a huge technological and scientific set back. can you imagine where we might be today if we had that extra thousand years?
    but this is not religion it is politics. politics using religion as a vehicle of mind control for the aquisition of power is not religion it is politics.
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    Ellion said "but this is not religion it is politics. politics using religion as a vehicle of mind control for the aquisition of power is not religion it is politics."

    Throughout history, Has the Holy Roman Emperor or the Pope had any power.
    yes of course.
    I think you should also point out that religion uses politics to it's own end.
    the muslims believe, they are one and the same, it is only more recently, we have separated the two.
    but there are some who wish to marry them together again.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellion
    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    ellion: there is little difference between you and that which you despise so fervently,
    *************
    M*W: What I "despise so fervently" are fantasies and other religious lies.
    why do does it aoruse you so much that you need to attack with such passion? there is something in you which is really hurt by these ideas, something which needs to lash out and destroy the ideas of other people who are different. its a very insecure something that desperately needs reassurance, that it is right. what is it? what are you defending? what are you defending against? what is so fearful about other people seeing the world differently?
    Yes. it would be interesting to know what it is that threatens MW so that she despises it so fervently.
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  18. #17 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    *************
    M*W: In all the posts by christians hating atheists, there is one recurring theme -- they obviously fear us! Oh, they may say they don't agree with us, and that's okay. They even become threatening and aggressive toward us, and we can deal with that, too. But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us? Are we everything they don't want to be? Or, could there possibly be a shred of doubt in each of their minds about what they presume to believe? My opinion is that they fear us because we might be right, and if so, it would be a christian's worst nightmare if maybe, just maybe, we know the reality about their fantasy.[/b]
    I would like to know something:

    If person A says x about person B, does this mean that x is true for B?
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  19. #18 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    *************
    M*W: In all the posts by christians hating atheists, there is one recurring theme -- they obviously fear us! Oh, they may say they don't agree with us, and that's okay. They even become threatening and aggressive toward us, and we can deal with that, too. But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us? Are we everything they don't want to be? Or, could there possibly be a shred of doubt in each of their minds about what they presume to believe? My opinion is that they fear us because we might be right, and if so, it would be a christian's worst nightmare if maybe, just maybe, we know the reality about their fantasy.[/b]
    I would like to know something:

    If person A says x about person B, does this mean that x is true for B?
    only if person A can provide proof that x is true about B.

    BTW why must people use Fucking algebra in everyday language?
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  20. #19 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    only if person A can provide proof that x is true about B.
    Can you *prove* that C is a loving person, for example?


    BTW why must people use Fucking algebra in everyday language?
    To find objective patterns.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    I think you should also point out that religion uses politics to it's own end.
    you could do it for me!
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  22. #21 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    only if person A can provide proof that x is true about B.
    Can you *prove* that C is a loving person, for example?


    BTW why must people use Fucking algebra in everyday language?
    To find objective patterns.
    Who is person C? :?
    This is why i hate algebra in everyday language because things either get left out, forgotten or confused.
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  23. #22 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    M*W: But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us?
    Same reason why drug abusers fear not getting their next fix.
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  24. #23 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchy Cat
    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    M*W: But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us?
    Same reason why drug abusers fear not getting their next fix.
    What makes you think that Christians fear atheists?
    What else do you have to go by other than your assumption of their fear?
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  25. #24 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What makes you think that Christians fear atheists?
    Atheist thinking threatens to undo the assertions that Xian's accept as
    'truth' and that breeds fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What else do you have to go by other than your assumption of their fear?
    A lifetime of experience. For example, my wife and I have taken up
    ballroom dancing at a church she once attended a very long time ago.
    With the exception of myself, everyone in the class is a 'believer'. One of
    the class members (an older lady) asked me questions about what church
    I went to and I explained that I don't. A few mintes later into the
    conversation, I saw the fear on her face (genuine... OMG it's an axe
    murderer fear) and she said: "Your wife will help you find the truth"
    (implying 'God'). I responded: "She has already been instrumental in
    helping me differentiate between reality and fantasy." With this little
    conversation alone, the lady went to the dancing instructor, the church
    pastor, etc. and complained that that I would take people away from 'God'.

    Similarly, you're afraid of the atheist line of thinking yourself (remember
    your most recent thread on SciForums)? It's brining you face to face with
    truth and you're afraid to loose that 'illusion of God' sitting right next to
    you.
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  26. #25 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What makes you think that Christians fear atheists?

    Probably for the same reason I think it: because it appears that Christian leaders go out of their way to paint an evil or sub-human characterization of those that don't believe as they do, creating an "other" that they use to incite fear among their cult followers.


    What else do you have to go by other than your assumption of their fear?
    There's the completely ignorant and fallacious equation of atheists and humanists to satanists that has been presented by jan ardena. It is obviously not an equation based on logic and fact, but rather one based on the need to de-humanize or create the perception of a lesser class of people than those that consider themselves Christian.

    But the evidence is also present in the words of these cult leaders of christianity:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Robertson
    The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.
    -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 30, 1981
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Robertson
    How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?
    -- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 227
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Robertson
    liberals, most of them atheistic educators, have pushed to remove all religion from the lives of children.... The people who wrote the "Humanist Manifesto" and their pupils and their disciples are in charge of education in America today.
    -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 13, 1995
    Surely the other cult leaders of Christianity have similar quotes. But even the political leaders of the nation make attempts to appeal to this "demonization."

    Quote Originally Posted by George H.W. Bush
    I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
    -- George Herbert Walker Bush, President of the United States, Press Conference at Chicago's O'Hare National Airport, August 27, 1987
    Christians seem to believe that atheists are out to get them. While it's definitely true that there are activist atheists, the vast majority just go through their lives with very little interaction with theists like Christians. Or perhaps they subscribe to the "when in Rome..." theory so as to not make waves within their societies. I know of many atheists who simply don't give the believers or religion, or atheism for that matter, much thought. They simply don't believe in the nonsense of the supernatural. Period.

    But among the Christians, there is a distinct and apparent fear of the atheist movement, which is, as jan ardena so fallaciously correlates, equated with satanism. I know of many Christians, personally, who equate any belief system other than their own with satanism. This is simply the fear at work.

    The Christian, of course, disagrees completely with this assessment. They have to, since biblical mythology makes it clear that they have the "armor" of their god, can walk in the "valley of the shadow of death," navigate dens of lions, face down giants, survive floods, rise again, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

    But the fact of the matter is Christianity is a religion and set of cults that is dying a slow death. The rate of population increase is outpacing the increase in cult membership. Science has disproven much of the nonsense included in biblical mythology: global floods, adam/eve, sudden stopping of the sun (which doesn't really move "across the sky" as the early humans believed), etc., etc, ad nauseum.

    Disproving biblical mythology is a distinct threat to the cults of christianity (protestantism, catholocism, mormonism, etc.) and the fact is most people of science are either agnostic, atheist, or otherwise non-religious. Largely because their knowledge doesn't correlate with the mandated beliefs of christianity or other religions.

    Because of this, we see the response of under-educated believers and educated but fanatical zealots who attempt to drive wedges in society and create class warfare between the educated and the under-educated, blaming societal problems such as homosexuality and moral decline on the "liberal atheists." Yet they fail to note that the non-relgious is under represented in prisons, implying that the religious are over represented. In other words, most crimes appear to be commited by those that profess belief in one or more gods. The social problems of society like abortion, murder, suicide, rape, pedophilia, theft, corporate crimes, etc. are committed by Christians.

    And yet, the blame goes to the "liberal, democratic atheists."

    The beliefs of Christianity are directly threatened by science. Most scientists are non-religious. The cult leaders of the religious hierarchies fear loss of memberships, which directly equate to loss of profits. Therefore, they preach that the atheist is evil and that everything that opposes their cult doctrine is "atheist," and the fear itself is perpetuated.
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  27. #26  
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    Has anyone ever heard a christian say god has a plan or god works in mysterious ways or even it was gods will when thay are talking about someone dying, so if i kill someone who is to blame me or god, did that person die because of my free will or did god force my hand, if it was my free will then god has no power over use because it was not his plan for that person to die, but if it was gods plan for that person to die buy my hand then god is controlling me and I am not to blame and humanity does not have free will. How can god have a plan for use and at the same time give us free will. So which is it are we nothing more than puppets or do we have power over god.
    Plus if god is all knowing and only the true beliviers will get into heaven then why create the people that he knows are never going to belive in him in the first place or create the people that will go to hell. Maybe I'm wrong about this or maybe I'v just watched to many movie but isn't it true that heaven and hell are at war and the more souls each side gets the stronger they become if it is true then why create soul that he knows are going to end up in hell. why create the devil in the first place I know the devil is just a fallen angel but if you were a all knowing god why create that angel why create a being that you know will turn from you and become your enemy.
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  28. #27  
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    Crunchy Cat,



    Atheist thinking threatens to undo the assertions that Xian's accept as
    'truth' and that breeds fear.
    Those people who fear that do not believe in God anyway. It is best their "belief" be done away.


    What else do you have to go by other than your assumption of their fear?
    A lifetime of experience.
    And you think *I* am yet another one you can put in your "experience with Christians" box?


    Similarly, you're afraid of the atheist line of thinking yourself (remember
    your most recent thread on SciForums)? It's brining you face to face with
    truth and you're afraid to loose that 'illusion of God' sitting right next to
    you.
    Read again: I said I *wished* there were someone sitting next to me. I did not say that someone was sitting right next to me.

    If only people would be thinking for themselves! Instead, they learn the few rules of logical thought, a few scientific or religious principles, and then, like a Turing machine, go in the same predictable patterns.

    Atheists are no exemption here. What you are saying can be generated, this is how predictable and unoriginal it is.
    So much for "thinking with your own mind".

    Your motto is "You must do it because you can do it, and you must enjoy it". In effect, the atheistic "think with your own mind" is about "don't think the way God would like you to think" -- and it is just as sheepish as you claim religion to be.


    What I do fear is that you are willing to chop off a person's legs, arms and head, just so that you can fit them in the box you have prepared for them.


    * * *


    SkinWalker,



    Probably for the same reason I think it: because it appears that Christian leaders go out of their way to paint an evil or sub-human characterization of those that don't believe as they do, creating an "other" that they use to incite fear among their cult followers.
    And atheists tend to "to paint an evil or sub-human characterization of those that don't believe as they do".


    What else do you have to go by other than your assumption of their fear?
    There's the completely ignorant and fallacious equation of atheists and humanists to satanists that has been presented by jan ardena. It is obviously not an equation based on logic and fact, but rather one based on the need to de-humanize or create the perception of a lesser class of people than those that consider themselves Christian.
    Your interpretation says a lot about the ways you think.
    It is you (and you have admitted so before), who thinks himself superior.

    What atheists, humanists and satanists have in common is that they are against God and they worship the material.
    From a *theo*centric perspective, the three are are the same.



    But the fact of the matter is Christianity is a religion and set of cults that is dying a slow death. The rate of population increase is outpacing the increase in cult membership. Science has disproven much of the nonsense included in biblical mythology: global floods, adam/eve, sudden stopping of the sun (which doesn't really move "across the sky" as the early humans believed), etc., etc, ad nauseum.

    Disproving biblical mythology is a distinct threat to the cults of christianity (protestantism, catholocism, mormonism, etc.) and the fact is most people of science are either agnostic, atheist, or otherwise non-religious. Largely because their knowledge doesn't correlate with the mandated beliefs of christianity or other religions.
    You do not know what believing in God means.
    And so far, you have shown no willingness whatsoever to learn.


    Because of this, we see the response of under-educated believers and educated but fanatical zealots who attempt to drive wedges in society and create class warfare between the educated and the under-educated, blaming societal problems such as homosexuality and moral decline on the "liberal atheists." Yet they fail to note that the non-relgious is under represented in prisons, implying that the religious are over represented. In other words, most crimes appear to be commited by those that profess belief in one or more gods. The social problems of society like abortion, murder, suicide, rape, pedophilia, theft, corporate crimes, etc. are committed by Christians.

    And yet, the blame goes to the "liberal, democratic atheists."

    The beliefs of Christianity are directly threatened by science. Most scientists are non-religious. The cult leaders of the religious hierarchies fear loss of memberships, which directly equate to loss of profits. Therefore, they preach that the atheist is evil and that everything that opposes their cult doctrine is "atheist," and the fear itself is perpetuated.
    Another two standard pigeonholigs you use:
    Putting all religionists into the same box.
    Considering everyone a believer who professes to be so.


    Is this how a scientist is supposed to analyze the sample?
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  29. #28  
    Forum Freshman Crunchy Cat's Avatar
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    Water,

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Those people who fear that do not believe in God anyway. It is best their "belief" be done away.
    Why? (to both statements)

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    And you think *I* am yet another one you can put in your "experience with Christians" box?
    I think a 'box' is a great analogy and I would point out, it's not the
    experiential repository that's the box... it's the content itself... it builds
    it's own walls (so to speak).


    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Read again: I said I *wished* there were someone sitting next to me. I did not say that someone was sitting right next to me.
    I wasn't quoting you on a specific sentence. I was expressing a concept.
    Regardless, you broke through the 'illusion' apparently and have been
    very quiet about it. What happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    If only people would be thinking for themselves! Instead, they learn the few rules of logical thought, a few scientific or religious principles, and then, like a Turing machine, go in the same predictable patterns.

    Atheists are no exemption here.
    Sounds like extreme dependent or counter-dependent dogma to me. I am
    sure dependent and counter-dependent athiests exist in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What you are saying can be generated, this is how predictable and unoriginal it is. So much for "thinking with your own mind".
    The judgment of predictabe and unoriginal thought doesn't preclude it
    from being self-generated or true. This isn't a creative writing contest.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Your motto is "You must do it because you can do it, and you must enjoy it". In effect, the atheistic "think with your own mind" is about "don't think the way God would like you to think" -- and it is just as sheepish as you claim religion to be.
    That's not my motto nor do I identify with the atheistic quote. Being an
    atheist and myself, the entire assertion is contradicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What I do fear is that you are willing to chop off a person's legs, arms and head, just so that you can fit them in the box you have prepared for them.
    Nothing has been prepared (consider it an open space). Anything that
    looks boxy is a result of how the content is filling that space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchy Cat
    Water,

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Those people who fear that do not believe in God anyway. It is best their "belief" be done away.
    Why? (to both statements)
    Why? False or bad faith is not something to encourage.


    Quote Originally Posted by water
    And you think *I* am yet another one you can put in your "experience with Christians" box?
    I think a 'box' is a great analogy and I would point out, it's not the
    experiential repository that's the box... it's the content itself... it builds
    it's own walls (so to speak).
    Only if what you have in mind is boxing.


    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Read again: I said I *wished* there were someone sitting next to me. I did not say that someone was sitting right next to me.
    I wasn't quoting you on a specific sentence. I was expressing a concept.
    Regardless, you broke through the 'illusion' apparently and have been
    very quiet about it. What happened?
    First away, you don't even know what my illusion was/is.
    As to what happened: mercy.


    The judgment of predictabe and unoriginal thought doesn't preclude it
    from being self-generated or true. This isn't a creative writing contest.
    How come nothing that you say ever surprises me?


    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Your motto is "You must do it because you can do it, and you must enjoy it". In effect, the atheistic "think with your own mind" is about "don't think the way God would like you to think" -- and it is just as sheepish as you claim religion to be.
    That's not my motto nor do I identify with the atheistic quote. Being an
    atheist and myself, the entire assertion is contradicted.
    Why did you send me off to have sex?


    Quote Originally Posted by water
    What I do fear is that you are willing to chop off a person's legs, arms and head, just so that you can fit them in the box you have prepared for them.
    Nothing has been prepared (consider it an open space). Anything that
    looks boxy is a result of how the content is filling that space.
    You are hearing only what you are prepared to hear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Why? False or bad faith is not something to encourage.
    The subject was 'belief'... not 'faith'. I repeat the question in the context
    of the words that were actually used.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Only if what you have in mind is boxing.
    I actually didn't until you brought it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    First away, you don't even know what my illusion was/is.
    As to what happened: mercy.
    Then tell me the whole story. Write an essay if you have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    How come nothing that you say ever surprises me?
    How come you expect me to surprise you?

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    Why did you send me off to have sex?
    I sent you off to fulfill an emotional need that was being substituted
    with fantasy. There were two important components... to find a person
    who cared about you and to have orgasms with that person to the
    point where you cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by water
    You are hearing only what you are prepared to hear.
    Sounds like I am being put into a box there.
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    What happens to athiest when they die according to christians. if you live a good life you care for others, you dont kill people, you are kind and giving and forgiveful, but you do not worship god do you get in to heaven (if it exists) I mean if there is a god why would he deny these people entry in to heaven
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolko
    What happens to athiest when they die according to christians. if you live a good life you care for others, you dont kill people, you are kind and giving and forgiveful, but you do not worship god do you get in to heaven (if it exists) I mean if there is a god why would he deny these people entry in to heaven
    not all christians are going to get in to heaven , not unless there true christians, read your bible.
    however when you die, thats it you just die the end, no more, hence why atheist are morally better then the religious, they do good just because it's the right thing to do, not because theres a pot of gold at the end of life.

    heres a little story by adrian barnett, just for fun.

    an atheist on judgement day

    The line seemed to stretch back forever. Hundreds of millions of souls, waiting patiently for their turn before the throne. The date... Well, the day is Judgment Day, so you won't find it on any calendar. The queue of people winds its way down the mountain, through the valley and off into the far distance. Everybody in the queue can see the final destination at the mountain peak. A hundred miles away, they can see it perfectly clearly. And they wait, moving forward a couple of steps at a time. Towards God, and the Decision.

    At the head of the line we find a young Christian, wearing an expression of awe and joy. Behind him, an atheist, looking slightly astonished, examining a leaf she has picked from a nearby bush, trying to decide if it is real or not. Heaven, she thinks, should be whiter, with more dry ice swirling about; not look like a Welsh hillside on a hot day.

    The Christian steps forward for judgment.

    "Hello Martin". God's voice is calm and gentle as He speaks.

    "Erm.. Hello. Lord". Martin's voice is nervous, as a dozen emotions fight for room in his mind at once.

    "This is it. This is where I decide what shall happen to you, Martin. In life, you were a Christian". It was a statement, not a question.

    "I was, Lord. I still am. I have been all my life. I have dedicated myself to your service."

    "Tell me, Martin. Why were you a Christian? Why did you believe in me?"

    "Why? Well... Because you are God! I've always believed in you."

    "That is not what I want to know. Why did you believe?"

    "Because I knew it was true. You were always there for me. You helped me through the bad times. You answered my prayers. You gave me the strength and courage to get through life. I could feel your presence with me all the time."

    "No."

    "Pardon, Lord?"

    "I said no, Martin. I have never helped you. You seemed to be doing perfectly alright by yourself. I heard your prayers, but never answered a single one. Your belief in me definitely helped you on occasion, but I have never intervened in your life. Certainly, you gave me credit for all the good times, but they were your own doing, not mine. You did not feel my presence, because it cannot be felt. The only actual proof you have that I exist at all is here and now. Again, tell me why you believed."

    "I.. I had faith, Lord. Since I was a child I have been to church, prayed and sang every Sunday. My faith in you never wavered. Even when my mother died, I had faith that it was your will, that it was a blessing from you that she passed peacefully. I was raised to believe in you, and as I grew I read the Bible for myself, and learnt of your miracles, and all the saints and martyrs, and the good done in your name. I read the works of great philosophers and they merely strengthened my faith. I knew it was true. "

    "No, Martin. Your mother died of natural causes, and she died peacefully because of the actions of the hospital. I watched and saw, but that is all. As for the rest - the saints, martyrs and philosophers had similar reasons for their belief in me, just as dictators and murderers have had. People have done great good and great harm in my name, and in the names of a thousand false gods. The Bible was written about me, not by me, and was written by people who had similar reasons as you for their belief, just as a thousand other Holy Books have been written about the false gods, or different versions of myself. I ask for the third and final time. Why did you believe in me?"

    Martin looked shocked and ashen, but pulled himself together. His Lord was testing him, and he had lived his entire life for this moment.

    "I believed because I could feel in my heart it was true. You sent your son to die for us, and I gladly accepted Him as my saviour. I.. I just knew it was true, and now that I see you, my faith has been vindicated. I no longer need to believe - I can see for myself the truth and majesty of my religion."

    Quietly, God spoke again. "Martin, you have impressed me". He paused.

    "But... not enough. You believe because you were taught to believe. You believe because you mistakenly attribute to me anything positive that has happened in your life, and discount anything negative. You believe because it is comforting to believe, and because you are frightened of the consequences of my not existing. You believe because... you believe. I'm sorry, Martin, but there is no place for you here."

    God briefly with his fingers, and Martin vanished. His shadow lingered where he had stood, fading rapidly to nothingness.

    The atheist, somewhat shaken by what she had just seen, stepped forward.

    "Hello Eve. I like that name."

    "Ah. Hello, God. Thanks", said Eve, not entirely sure how to address a being she had, until now, considered fictional.

    "Yes, you may call me God. Eve, in life you were an atheist. You doubted my existence, even objecting to the very concept". Again, a statement, not a question.

    "Yes, I did. Clearly, I was mistaken."

    "Clearly. Tell me, are you still an atheist?"

    "I suppose not. I'm not a Christian, Jew or anything else. I guess I'd have to be called an involuntary theist. Ah ha ha", Eve laughed nervously, hoping the very real and solid-looking deity before her had a good sense of humour.

    "Mmm... Tell me, Eve. Why did you not believe in me?". God's voice was kind and gentle once more.

    "At one point I did. I was raised as a Christian, and often went to church, and prayed every night before bed. When I was feeling down I would read the Bible. The act of reading it seemed to comfort me, even though the words themselves didn't seem much help. I think, like Martin, I believed because I believed."

    "And then you lost your faith? You decided I did not exist, and you knew better than those around you? You knew better than your pastor and family?" The voice was losing its kindly edge a little.

    "That is one way of looking at it, yes. What I believed did not seem to fit with other things I knew. The Bible clearly could not be literally true, word for word. I knew from biology and paleontology that humans had evolved like all other life, and were not special creations. How life or the universe began, I still don't know, but could not just merely accept 'God did it' as an explanation. I learned about other religions, and how they all claimed a monopoly on truth, happiness and morality. I saw the good done in your name, but I also saw the oppression, genocide and wars. I saw that if people were in need, it was up to us to deal with it, not to rely on heavenly aid.". Eve felt a little braver, but was expecting the traditional thunderbolt any moment. The people behind her, now at the head of the queue, were slowly moving backwards, trying not to draw attention to themselves.

    "Yet here you are, before your God, on the final Day of Judgment. Why should I allow you in - a heretic, a disbeliever, an infidel - when your predecessor, devout and faithful, full of love for me, was consigned to Oblivion? Tell me why. Justify your entry to my Paradise."

    Eve straightened up, looking God in the face. "Why should you let me in? Because I am better person than you."

    If Eve had looked round, she would have seen the entire line of souls, perfectly still and wide-eyed, staring at her in shock.

    "What did you say?", enquired God. His voice, though barely audible, caused tremors in the mountain.

    Surprised at still being alive, her mouth dry, Eve continued. "I said, because I am a better person. You have shown it yourself already. You told Martin that you watched as his mother became ill and died. You destroyed him for believing for no good reason, when his whole life had been shaped by that belief. Your preachers on Earth encourage unquestioning faith, yet you do not tell us whether that is what you want. You give people no rational basis for belief, and then when they make up their own that is not good enough for you. You listen to our prayers, yet do not answer, leaving people to rationalise events for themselves. People kill and slaughter over trivial differences in doctrine, and you look on. In the churches and temples raised in your glory, children are mentally and physically abused - in your so-called House! All over the world, throughout history, people have murdered each other for believing the wrong thing about God, for believing in the wrong God, or for not believing in any God. The poorest and most helpless people are relentlessly targeted, being told to give what little they have now, for the promise of eternal bliss later. When a person is at his lowest ebb, that is when the smiling missionaries appear, knowing that his life will probably get better naturally and they can give you the credit. In your name, the ends justify the means as long as souls are saved". Eve paused for breath, and continued.

    "And you? All-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing? You just sit here and you watch it all... Any person in this line, had they your power, would show greater compassion and morality. You may be God, but you are far from Godliness."

    God smiled. "Are you finished? Good. Eve, you have impressed me". He paused. Eve held her breath, shoulders tensing.

    "You have impressed me a great deal. You may have believed in me for all the wrong reasons, but you disbelieved for the right reasons. You led a good life, and used the intelligence I give to everybody in the correct way. Even though you came to a conclusion about me that was hopelessly wrong, you came to it in a way that cannot be faulted. You may pass into paradise, Eve, with my blessing."

    Eve did not step forward. Instead, she spoke once more. "No, I will not".

    "No? You refuse Heaven? You defy my will?" The smile had left God's face again.

    "Do you think I would want to spend one more minute, let alone eternity, in your company? You allow people to suffer, sometimes for their entire lives, for no purpose, and then judge them on their reaction. You hide yourself from the world and allow your creations to persecute each other over differing interpretations of the lack of evidence. You see all the pain and ignorance caused in your name, and just sit there as this queue grows daily? And then you have the audacity to punish good people for believing in you 'for the wrong reasons'?"

    "Eve. Enough of this. The gates to Paradise are open to you. Be silent now, and enter."

    "No. If it is a choice between oblivion and an eternity with a monster like you, I gladly choose oblivion. I ask only one thing, before you destroy me."

    "And what is that?" asked God, getting impatient.

    "That, if you can, you look me in the eyes as you do it."


    God turned his head away, lifted is hand, gestured his fingers.


    Shortly afterwards, the next person in the queue stepped towards the top of the mountain, and Judgment.





    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    © Adrian Barnett 2000
    thank you Adrian
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  34. #33  
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    well if I'm wrong and there is a god I want to go just like that (TO TELL GOD WERE TO STICK IT HOW FUN WOULD THAT BE)
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  35. #34  
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    Nice story, geezer.
    "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
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  36. #35  
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    Heres a site listen to the garden of eden one this guy things people would live to be 900 years old, he also thinks that back then normal lizards would live so long that they would grow into dinosaures, I could'nt listen to it all I found myself shouting at him I know he can't hear me but still I was argueing with him http://drdino.com/downloads.php
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  37. #36  
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    Christians fear athiests? That is a very presumtuous thing to say!

    __________________________________________________ _____________
    "Happy is the man who can recognise in the work of To-day a connected portion of the work of life, and an embodiment of the work of Eternity. The foundations of his confidence are unchangeable, for he has been made a partaker of Infinity." - James Clerk Maxwell
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  38. #37  
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    Just to expand on what religion has done wrong - religion is responsible for the dark ages and the black plague. They stopped scientific advancement for 500 years. They fed the lie that the world was flat.

    Oh, also the spanish inquisition was horrible!
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    anyone seen the youtube debate between thunderfoot and venomfangX?
    here's the christian:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQgEyyEsXE
    venomfangX.
    and then there's thunderf00t, the creator of the "why do people laugh at creationists" series of videos.
    he's an atheist.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Just to expand on what religion has done wrong - religion is responsible for the dark ages and the black plague. They stopped scientific advancement for 500 years. They fed the lie that the world was flat.

    Oh, also the spanish inquisition was horrible!
    How is religion respnsible for the black plague?

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  41. #40  
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    Are you a moron or do you seriously not know?
    The fall over Rome lead over to the spread of the plague. The plague was the result of uncleanliness. The black plague was in direct result to not taking bathes, which lead to further degree's of filth that attracted the rat flea, which spread the bacteria to rats. The filthy stature attracted the infested rats which spread to human's.

    The church is responsible for cutting down all technology for 500 years and are the ones responsible for informing others that bathing spreads disease and illness... Which, in turn, not bathing spread the black plague.
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Are you a moron or do you seriously not know?
    The fall over Rome lead over to the spread of the plague. The plague was the result of uncleanliness. The black plague was in direct result to not taking bathes, which lead to further degree's of filth that attracted the rat flea, which spread the bacteria to rats. The filthy stature attracted the infested rats which spread to human's.

    The church is responsible for cutting down all technology for 500 years and are the ones responsible for informing others that bathing spreads disease and illness... Which, in turn, not bathing spread the black plague.
    First off, I did not know this so please don't be so impolite as to call me a moron.

    Secondly, while religion may be reponsible for the black death (I am basing this purely on what you have told me btw, so what I am about to say might not be true), it does not neccesarily mean that religion is a bad thing. It would seem that it has caused some tragic events. But that is not to say that this was through deliberate evil.

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    Lol, sorry, I was in my other forum mode and got through a nasty debate so I was still pissed off at others.

    Anyway,
    Ignorant is a deliberate evil. the church outlawing scientific advance is ignorant, thus, the church is a deliberate evil.
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Lol, sorry, I was in my other forum mode and got through a nasty debate so I was still pissed off at others.

    Anyway,
    Ignorant is a deliberate evil. the church outlawing scientific advance is ignorant, thus, the church is a deliberate evil.
    Or, the church of yesteryear is evil?

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  45. #44  
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    verzen said:
    Just to expand on what religion has done wrong - religion is responsible for the dark ages and the black plague. They stopped scientific advancement for 500 years. They fed the lie that the world was flat.
    You posted this silly claim on another thread. And someplace earlier on this thread, Wallaby claimed it was 1,000 years. Anyway, you never did answer the question as to what 500 years you think this took place in or what scientific discoveries you think might have been made in that time frame.

    It intrigues me to think what might have happened if we had had atomic bomb in 1444 instead of 1944 or what if it had been available, as wallaby seems to think, in 944.

    My guess is that Europe and Asia would have destroyed each other and I would be full blooded Native American instead of just a small percentage. And the bow and arrow would now be the world's superior weapon.

    As to the OP, I have no idea why anyone would be so egotistical as to think that their group, making up a teeny percent of the world's population would strike fear among the worlds largest group.

    Christians do no fear atheists or atheism. In fact, all Christians were, at one time, atheists themselves. Christians' emotional reactions to atheists are sadness and pity, not fear.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  46. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    It intrigues me to think what might have happened if we had had atomic bomb in 1444 instead of 1944 or what if it had been available, as wallaby seems to think, in 944.
    It's typical for a theist to choose the worst scenarios whenever the bring science into their realm of their religious fantasies. Dayton conveniently forgets that it may have been scientists that developed the atomic bomb, but it was theists who gave the command to use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    anyone seen the youtube debate between thunderfoot and venomfangX?
    here's the christian:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQgEyyEsXE
    venomfangX.
    and then there's thunderf00t, the creator of the "why do people laugh at creationists" series of videos.
    he's an atheist.
    I've seen it. It's freaking hilarious!
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  48. #47 Re: Why do christians fear atheists? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman
    *************
    M*W: In all the posts by christians hating atheists, there is one recurring theme -- they obviously fear us! Oh, they may say they don't agree with us, and that's okay. They even become threatening and aggressive toward us, and we can deal with that, too. But, why is it that they show rampant fear of us? Are we everything they don't want to be? Or, could there possibly be a shred of doubt in each of their minds about what they presume to believe? My opinion is that they fear us because we might be right, and if so, it would be a christian's worst nightmare if maybe, just maybe, we know the reality about their fantasy.[/b]
    ROFL @ this thread. I don't recall saying I was afraid of anything least of all an Atheist. I actually pity you and your narrow mindedness. By all means if you can PROVE your beliefs I will renounce mine but, I can assure I take nothing at blind faith.
    I think therefore I am, I think
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  49. #48  
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    Matt, how many times do I have to repeat this, "It is impossible to prove a negative" Do you know what that means? It's impossible to prove something does not exist, such as god. Is that proof that god exists? No, it isn't. Can you prove a goblin or an elf does not exist? No, it's impossible. Just because we havnt seen one doesnt mean they do not exist.

    In order for us to believe, it is up to you to show us the logical truth behind your claims. If it is anything but the logical truth, then stfu about being right and us athiests wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Matt, how many times do I have to repeat this, "It is impossible to prove a negative" Do you know what that means? It's impossible to prove something does not exist, such as god. Is that proof that god exists? No, it isn't. Can you prove a goblin or an elf does not exist? No, it's impossible. Just because we havnt seen one doesnt mean they do not exist.

    In order for us to believe, it is up to you to show us the logical truth behind your claims. If it is anything but the logical truth, then stfu about being right and us athiests wrong.
    Take a look at my last post.
    I think therefore I am, I think
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    I did... That's the problem.
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  52. #51  
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    verzen said:

    "It is impossible to prove a negative"
    This is an illogical over extension of the illogical (and often contended here) fallacy that one cannot prove something does not exist.

    It is possible to prove a negative. I can prove I am not in England. I can prove my lawn is not purple. I can prove my house is not blue. I can prove the orange on the table is not an apple. I can prove that you are not my child. Those are negative proofs.

    I agree that it is more difficult to prove that something does not exist. Although, it might be possible to prove that the green side of a red barn does not exist. It might also be possible to prove that a barn does not exist on my property at all. I don't know if you could prove that no atom exists without a neutron.

    It might be more safe to say that there are things which have neither been proven nor disproven and which may or may not be proven or disproven in the future.

    It is impossible to find something that is impossible. (':?')
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  53. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    verzen said:

    "It is impossible to prove a negative"
    This is an illogical over extension of the illogical (and often contended here) fallacy that one cannot prove something does not exist.

    It is possible to prove a negative. I can prove I am not in England. I can prove my lawn is not purple. I can prove my house is not blue. I can prove the orange on the table is not an apple. I can prove that you are not my child. Those are negative proofs.

    It is impossible to find something that is impossible. (':?')
    those are fallacious negative proofs.

    you can prove you're not in england, because you can prove you are in the pacific northwest of USA.
    you can prove your lawn is not purple, by proving your lawn is green.
    you can prove your house is not blue, by proving that it is another colour.
    you can prove your orange is not an apple, but comparing it to an apple.
    you can prove someone else is not your child, because you have evidence who their real parent is.
    none of those are true negative proofs.
    so basically, you prove the non-existence of a certain property of an object by comparing it to an existing property.

    on another note, you can prove the earth was not created by god in 6 days 6000 years ago, because we have rocks that says it took millions of years, based on experimental evidence.
    rocks have nothing to gain from lying. the bible does.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  54. #53  
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    deja said:

    none of those are true negative proofs.
    There is more than one way to prove those points. Your proofs utilize positive opposite proofs which are not necessarily the only ways to disprove them.

    As to the color of my lawn, it is not necessary to prove it is green to prove it is not purple. I could show you on a color spectrum which wave length is reflected by purple and then show you that the lawn does not reflect that wave length. I will not have, in anyway, proved what color the lawn actually is -- only that it is not purple.

    I need not prove who your parents are to prove you are not my child; I merely need to show that our DNA does not match. This would not show who your real parent is. If you were, say, adopted, it is likely that it would be far more difficult to prove who your parents are than who they are not.

    Similar proofs are available for each of the examples. In some cases, it may be easier to prove the negative by showing the positive. In other cases, it may not be necessary to show the positive to prove or disprove the negative.

    I have never attempted to prove the Earth is only 6,000 years old, so this is a straw argument in so far as I am concerned. And since only a small percentage of Christians are adamant young Earth supporters, it is really asinine to foolishly attempt to discredit the majority through the beliefs of the minority.
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    There is more than one way to prove those points.
    then why did you mention them as true negatives in the first place?

    I have never attempted to prove the Earth is only 6,000 years old, so this is a straw argument in so far as I am concerned. And since only a small percentage of Christians are adamant young Earth supporters, it is really asinine to foolishly attempt to discredit the majority through the beliefs of the minority.
    well, from previous posts i can remember, you've tried to discredit evolution.
    evolution and geology are NOT mutually exclusive, and that includes the bones of our millions of years old ancestors, that proves we evolved from a common ancestor with apes.
    to discredit that, you have to discredit geology, chemistry, and physics.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Well, deja, how many straws did you get on that grasp?
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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    Evolution is true btw. You can see it in every day life. Do you believe in the existence of African's? Yes or no? If you do believe in the existence of African's, then you know that evolution is true, since African's grew up in a sunny, humid climate, they have black skin. This is to protect themselves from the temperature, heat, and humidity. Look at the platypus for example. The platypus is a great example of evolution.
    Look at ourselves. If GOD existed, why would he give us so many useless parts? The Apendix is one of our parts that humans don't need any more. Same with wisdom teeth. They are useless parts within a human that was from evolution. How about our tail bone? Can you explain that? Our tail bone is in direct connection with our body and with evolution. It proves we use to have tails. Include the Vomeronasal Organ as well. All of which are now useless to us, but were useful before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Evolution is true btw. You can see it in every day life. Do you believe in the existence of African's? Yes or no? If you do believe in the existence of African's, then you know that evolution is true, since African's grew up in a sunny, humid climate, they have black skin. This is to protect themselves from the temperature, heat, and humidity. Look at the platypus for example. The platypus is a great example of evolution.
    Look at ourselves. If GOD existed, why would he give us so many useless parts? The Apendix is one of our parts that humans don't need any more. Same with wisdom teeth. They are useless parts within a human that was from evolution. How about our tail bone? Can you explain that? Our tail bone is in direct connection with our body and with evolution. It proves we use to have tails. Include the Vomeronasal Organ as well. All of which are now useless to us, but were useful before.
    oh he'll simply ignore most of it, and give half-assed answers to the rest.
    delusion at work.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Well, deja, how many straws did you get on that grasp?
    its further than i've ever been before on someone with as fortified opinions as yours.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    responding to verzen:

    I think they are now saying that we are all related to a single bushman who was indigenous to Western Africa. So, it would actually be all the non-blacks who have developed different adaptations to accommodate their environments. Black people, it appears, are probably the original race.

    Wisdom teeth, because of their later emergence, were valuable in days of yore to replace lost molars. I, in fact, am using one of my wisdom teeth as a replacement for a lost molar. So they are not totally useless and were important among early humans whose dental care was even worse than mine.

    There is also a belief that early humans had a use for the appendix due to their diet, but that as diets changed, the use of the appendix was no longer necessary and it atrophied into a not functioning organ.

    The vomeronasal system was a new one on me, but a little reading on it suggest that this system is still operational in humans.

    I think it remains something of a mystery as to why Australia is almost the exclusive home of marsupials while having few mammals. And the rest of the world has few marsupials. Evolutionists deem this evidence of evolution while detractors suggest this is evidence against evolution. You explain it, I can't.

    deja said:

    fortified opinions as yours.
    The best fortifications for opinions are logic and truth.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner

    The best fortifications for opinions are logic and truth.
    unless the truths you base your opinions on are lies, and the logic you use is broken.
    so the best fortification of opinions are delusion and ignorance,
    because then you are ensured your opinions, can never be proven wrong as far as you are concerned, because you don't accept them as wrong.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner

    I have never attempted to prove the Earth is only 6,000 years old, so this is a straw argument in so far as I am concerned. And since only a small percentage of Christians are adamant young Earth supporters, it is really asinine to foolishly attempt to discredit the majority through the beliefs of the minority.
    hmm... I know one person of this minority of Christian...
    "Dinausors were cohabitating with Human 6000 y. ago..."
    hold on, Republican VP candidate? Sarah Palin!
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    deja said:

    unless the truths you base your opinions on are lies, and the logic you use is broken.
    As in this example? If the truths are lies, then they are not truths and thus your logic in this statement is not at all logical. Logic is not broken; something is either logical or illogical.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

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  64. #63  
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    deja said:

    unless the truths you base your opinions on are lies, and the logic you use is broken.
    As in this example? If the truths are lies, then they are not truths and thus your logic in this statement is not at all logical. Logic is not broken; something is either logical or illogical.


    thats just pure bullshit semantics.
    my point is, delusion and ignorance is the best fortification against changing your opinions. because you can ignore all the evidence that states your opinions are false, and move the goalposts.

    just look at sarah palin.
    she's a true champion of blissful ignorance, and massive delusion.

    with the power of delusion and ignorance, you can convince yourself you'll be fine, even as you're falling off a cliff.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  65. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    And since only a small percentage of Christians are adamant young Earth supporters, it is really asinine to foolishly attempt to discredit the majority through the beliefs of the minority.
    It's a damn good thing that line of logic was used when Galileo, the minority, attempted to foolishly discredit the church, the majority, claiming that the universe was NOT geocentric.

    I mean, look where it got him.

    But, further to Daytons claim, it is the height of hypocrisy for him to even mutter such words in that he uses rationale and reason to discredit the claims of his own brethren in favor of a more rational fantasy.

    And, he calls it "asinine."

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    It's a damn good thing that line of logic, taking a group of people 400 years ago and pretending there is a constant like that, context people, context!

    it is like meeting a Native American and running in fear from them because 400 years the Mohawk may have been cannibals
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