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Thread: Good Death, Bad Death

  1. #1 Good Death, Bad Death 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Is there honor or shame if God kills you?

    Tough to speak for those who die at God's hands, but I do think most believers will pass some kind of judgment as to whether they died in shame or honor. Either way, the deceased must have been personally selected by the Almighty for disposal.

    If God kills a few individuals for their indiscretions then I presume that the victims died a shameful death. If God has a good person killed then I can presume that is an honorable death.

    What I don't understand is this.... if it is suggested that God took away a good person, a martyred priest or a suffering child for instance, then would that be consider an act of good or evil? If such a death is good then did God arrange it? If you say an Evil force was responsible then is it still good? If so then why is evil never accredited with a good kill? If God wants you dead if only to show good's power over evil then why would evil plan such an event?

    The only conclusion I can reach is that God kills good people to show bad people what they can expect if they don't reform. As for the disobedient, why would Evil kill evil people? My feeling is that a God cannot have any idea of what Evil is going to do next if He has good people killed, so it stands that God is the sole planner of death and the executioner for both good and evil people.


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    god does not kill - after all, he doesn't exist does he ?


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  4. #3 Re: Good Death, Bad Death 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Is there honor or shame if God kills you?

    Tough to speak for those who die at God's hands, but I do think most believers will pass some kind of judgment as to whether they died in shame or honor. Either way, the deceased must have been personally selected by the Almighty for disposal.

    If God kills a few individuals for their indiscretions then I presume that the victims died a shameful death. If God has a good person killed then I can presume that is an honorable death.

    What I don't understand is this.... if it is suggested that God took away a good person, a martyred priest or a suffering child for instance, then would that be consider an act of good or evil? If such a death is good then did God arrange it? If you say an Evil force was responsible then is it still good? If so then why is evil never accredited with a good kill? If God wants you dead if only to show good's power over evil then why would evil plan such an event?

    The only conclusion I can reach is that God kills good people to show bad people what they can expect if they don't reform. As for the disobedient, why would Evil kill evil people? My feeling is that a God cannot have any idea of what Evil is going to do next if He has good people killed, so it stands that God is the sole planner of death and the executioner for both good and evil people.
    A good definition of one's god would help here. The OT god seemed to be of the intemperate sort - killing and later on claiming to have done it because of his rage at x, y or z. More recently humans have imagined a different sort of god - whose main focus is 'love'. Even in this case the old Socratic conundrum remains: is something good or evil simply because it follows or defies god's will? Or is god's will itself subject to some 'higher', or Platonically pre-existing standard of good and evil in the universe?

    Unless your conception of god can resolve the issue of the Socratic fork, you will not be able, meaningfully, to discuss the goodness or evil in any of god's actions.

    cheer

    the sunshine warrior
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  5. #4 Re: Good Death, Bad Death 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    A good definition of one's god would help here.
    Not really, just pick a God from any religion that's been known to kill a few of His creations. I don't want to single out one religion, I've been accused of picking on a certain one.

    Here's what I'm saying. The only way a God can be innocent of murder is if He doesn't know what evil will do next. If He does know then He allows it. As usual I am attacking, or should I say questioning, one of the omni's. In this case it is omniscience.

    An omniscient God knows what evil is going to do next. It could be evil is infecting an innocent child with cancer or having a mother hemorrhage to death on the birthing table. Whatever it is, most religions have a tough time pinning it on their God. Their way out of such a dilemma is to say God is reserving a room in heaven for the victim or something to that affect, just to ease the thought of their divinity being responsible. It still doesn't belay the fact that God permits evil to do its thing.

    In other words a bizarre macabre partnership is struck between the good God and whatever evil personification that religion recognizes. Under the pretext of killing man as punishment for sin He allows evil to act as His contract killer so to speak. Do you want a God that uses evil's actions for His own benefit or do you want a God that has no clue as to what evil will do next?

    A clueless God is more apt to be a loving God, perhaps even combatting evil at every turn. Does your God do this? Now if you believe your God is incapable of murder or of stopping evil then there is no way He can know everything.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  6. #5 Re: Good Death, Bad Death 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

    Here's what I'm saying. The only way a God can be innocent of murder is if He doesn't know what evil will do next. If He does know then He allows it. As usual I am attacking, or should I say questioning, one of the omni's. In this case it is omniscience.
    Fair enough. I obviously misunderestimated ( ) your first post. If you are posing the problem of evil and taking on theodicy, more power to your bow and may your arrows fly straight!

    cheer

    the sunshine "optimistic nihilist" warrior
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