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Thread: The definitions of atheism and agnosticism

  1. #201  
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    Guys, this was a good thread.

    Think about what you're doing. Show some respect.
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  2. #202  
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    I wanted to point out a fallacy in your original context of the strong athiest. It is NOT the responsibility for the strong athiest to provide proof, otherwise there can be no strong athiests in existence. It's simply impossible and futile to try to prove something does not exist.
    Can you prove that elves and goblin's don't exist? We havn't seen them, but we can't literally prove their non-existence. It is always the responsibility of the religious person to provide proof of existence, since existence can be proven, but never disproven. Such as, can you prove that a cat exists? How can you back up that claim?

    A strong athiest has a foundation for his beliefs while a weak athiest does not. A weak athiest takes the case for god and decides for themselves if god is real, similar to how a jury would think while a strong athiest may act as a prosecuter, coming up with their own reason why they disbelieve in god.
    The difference between a strong athiest and a weak athiest -
    The strong actually has a reason for his disbelief
    The weak actually has a disbelief in others reason.
    The weak athiest doesn't come up with his own reasoning. He just disbelieves. Strong will always come up with their own reasoning to why they don't believe in god, but in no way can provide evidence of god's non-existence.
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  3. #203 Proof Of God 
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    Evidence is proof, something that shows what is true. Truth is established by testifying, bearing witness, attesting, declaring under oath that what is testified to, is actuality. In a court of law, as in a civil action, evidence is presented and the validity of this evidence is assessed by a judge or jury who rule on it; the decision is accepted and it is determined that proof has been established by a preponderance of the evidence.

    Throughout several millennia evidence has been presented that a spiritual existence or consciousness has mysteriously interacted with mans spirit via inspirations to write it into what are considered the Holy Books. This can be considered evidence; proof by a preponderance of evidence of an exterior influence, a spiritual existence which mankind has decided to call God.

    An atheist who claims that God does not exist is factually incorrect.
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  4. #204  
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    That is surely your opinion. However, it is impossible for a god to exist. Can I prove non-existence? Nope, I can't. And you can't either.
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  5. #205  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    ... it is impossible for a god to exist.
    God is spirit and/or the source of life....it exists. An atheist who claims that God does not exist is factually incorrect.
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  6. #206  
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    Do you believe in the einsteinian god who is nature and everything around us but is NOT sentient? Or a sentient god who interacts with mere mortals. I am opposed to the latter, but for the former.
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  7. #207  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Do you believe in the einsteinian god who is nature and everything around us but is NOT sentient? Or a sentient god who interacts with mere mortals. I am opposed to the latter, but for the former.
    Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive subjectively; it is sometimes also used in philosophy as one aspect of the important idea of consciousness. If god is spirit/life it would indicate that it cannot physically interfere or interact with mortals.
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  8. #208  
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    So then god is not really there then, correct? God is just nature, the universe, everything. God = string theory and is as intelligent as a chair.
    That I can agree with.
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  9. #209  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    So then god is not really there then, correct?
    God is there in your psyche/spirit/life/consciousness...but can be eliminated from the conscience...and does not exist physically.
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  10. #210  
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    So god is not sentient, which means he is not like us and can't communicate with us because he can't THINK. Correct?
    Yes or No.
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  11. #211  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    So god is not sentient, which means he is not like us and can't communicate with us because he can't THINK. Correct?
    Yes or No.
    Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. God is the progressive spiritual intellect of the universe that can only communicate with our spirit. This is then interpreted by a conditioned, fallible mind; hence you have various religions.
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  12. #212 Re: Proof Of God 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Evidence is proof, something that shows what is true. Truth is established by testifying, bearing witness, attesting, declaring under oath that what is testified to, is actuality. In a court of law, as in a civil action, evidence is presented and the validity of this evidence is assessed by a judge or jury who rule on it; the decision is accepted and it is determined that proof has been established by a preponderance of the evidence.
    There is no evidence whatsoever that will back up your god delusions. Your assertion about a court of law is bogus in regards to demonstrating gods. I would love to see you go into a court room and demonstrate gods exist.

    Throughout several millennia evidence has been presented that a spiritual existence or consciousness has mysteriously interacted with mans spirit via inspirations to write it into what are considered the Holy Books. This can be considered evidence; proof by a preponderance of evidence of an exterior influence, a spiritual existence which mankind has decided to call God.
    That is completely wrong. Whatever so-called "inspirations" you claim cannot be distinguished between mental illness and delusion, which is most likely the case.

    An atheist who claims that God does not exist is factually incorrect.
    You are completely insane.
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  13. #213  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. God is the progressive spiritual intellect of the universe that can only communicate with our spirit. This is then interpreted by a conditioned, fallible mind; hence you have various religions.
    Can any of your delusions be demonstrated? Didn't think so.
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  14. #214 Re: Proof Of God 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    An atheist who claims that God does not exist is factually incorrect.
    You are completely insane.
    interesting...since I've already proven that you're an obnoxious liar, your opinions are void. :P
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  15. #215 Re: Proof Of God 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    interesting...since I've already proven that you're an obnoxious liar, your opinions are void.
    Your opinions are little more than delusion. You've never once demonstrated a single thing you've claimed, other than providing a link to a fantasy website. You're here only to preach your version of the gospel, and no one gives a rat's patootie.

    And since you've called me a liar, it should be noted that I was going to expose you as the real estate fraud that you are, but you went into that website and deleted everything. That's quite the victory you created for yourself.
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  16. #216 Re: Proof Of God 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    And since you've called me a liar, it should be noted that I was going to expose you as the real estate fraud that you are, but you went into that website and deleted everything. That's quite the victory you created for yourself.
    (Q) wrote: Yes, I saw many comments on forums indicating you're a real estate shyster, a charlatan.


    Q, You are an obnoxious liar.
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  17. #217  
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    Science always is conflicted with God.Science study the defintive matter,God is fantasy who we never see.I am Chinese,in our culture,we also respect of Sheng but maybe we put emphasia on human beings themselves as KongFuzi just do that
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  18. #218  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xumin123
    Science always is conflicted with God.Science study the defintive matter,God is fantasy who we never see.
    God has been vastly misinterpreted. God is psyche/consciousness/life/spirit.
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  19. #219  
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    AKA God is imagination - Mind - Thought - Not real
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  20. #220  
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    "You can call consciousness outside the brain "spirit", if you like, but this can be confusing because not everybody has the same ideas about what exactly "spirit" should be. And there are several "levels" of consciousness, waking consciousness, dreaming consciousness, "subconsciousness", collective human consciousness, morphogenetic consciousness, higher consciousness, Cosmic consciousness, Divine consciousness. All these levels of consciousness are interconnected, and available, also during our life in our body." ~ Dr. Lommel, cardiologist
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  21. #221  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God has been vastly misinterpreted. God is...
    Please. This is a definitive thread and you're posting and inviting creative re-definitions. You confuse!

    It's nearly preferable to swapping vegetarian lasagna recipes or whatever was that 20+ string of OT above.

    Let's at least disagree on the same page.
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  22. #222  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God has been vastly misinterpreted. God is...
    Please. This is a definitive thread and you're posting and inviting creative re-definitions. You confuse!

    :-D
    In order to define someone as an atheist or agnostic one must first know how to define the object or subject that their definition is based on. :-D
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  23. #223  
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    Oh great. Let's define God: "God is psyche/consciousness/life/spirit." Define consciousness: "waking consciousness, dreaming consciousness, 'subconsciousness', collective human consciousness, morphogenetic consciousness, higher consciousness, Cosmic consciousness, Divine consciousness. All these levels of consciousness are interconnected..."

    Now we're clear on what the hell we're talking about, and it just keeps getting better.
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  24. #224  
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    God is spirit. Your spirit is your psyche or consciousness; it can interact with God in the same way radio waves are transmitted and received. Your spirit transmits; god receives. God is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe. God cannot interact with us physically but our spirit can receive inspirations to brighten our lives. see two kinds of order at http://everythingforever.com/
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  25. #225  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God is spirit. Your spirit is your psyche or consciousness; it can interact with God in the same way radio waves are transmitted and received. Your spirit transmits; god receives. God is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe. God cannot interact with us physically but our spirit can receive inspirations to brighten our lives. see two kinds of order at http://everythingforever.com/
    Why do you keep spamming the same crap over and over?
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  26. #226  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God is spirit. Your spirit is your psyche or consciousness; it can interact with God in the same way radio waves are transmitted and received. Your spirit transmits; god receives. God is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe. God cannot interact with us physically but our spirit can receive inspirations to brighten our lives. see two kinds of order at http://everythingforever.com/
    Why do you keep spamming the same crap over and over?
    a standard argument requires a standard rebuttal
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  27. #227  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God is spirit. Your spirit is your psyche or consciousness; it can interact with God in the same way radio waves are transmitted and received. Your spirit transmits; god receives. God is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe. God cannot interact with us physically but our spirit can receive inspirations to brighten our lives. see two kinds of order at http://everythingforever.com/
    Why do you keep spamming the same crap over and over?
    a standard argument requires a standard rebuttal
    A standard argument requires a standard brain (non-existent in Q)...the answer is...(your quote) what evidence is there that you (or I) have a mind?...likewise, there is no evidence of God's existence...so, no rebuttal will suffice...but believers know...and atheists who claim that god does not exist, are factually incorrect and agnostics are right...my job is to educate...so I repeat the same old crap until it sinks in.
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  28. #228  
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    Right or wrong, kkawohl, that crap ain't helping us find terms in common.
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  29. #229  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    ...but believers know.. are factually incorrect ...my job is to educate...so I repeat the same old crap until it sinks in.
    By your own logic, as a believer, you are factually incorrect, hence you are teaching false assumptions; crap.
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  30. #230  
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    Actually Q, he is correct. If he wishes to teach us his ways, he must say the same thing over and over.
    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." - Joseph Goebbels
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  31. #231  
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    erm, im sorry for butting in after what seems like 16 pages worth of debates but i really have to point out that i think we're all deviating from the thread's actual purpose of stating the standard definitions for agnosticism and atheism. (i gave up reading after page 9 so if anyone did finally link how prayers and the definitions were connected do let me know).
    What do you do when the last day of your life is approaching...........?
    Me?
    I still go about living life the way I always have.
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  32. #232  
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanwave
    ...the thread's actual purpose of stating the standard definitions for agnosticism and atheism..
    Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that affirms the nonexistence of gods. Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claimsparticularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate realityis unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable due to the nature of subjective experience.

    So, basically...atheists who claim that god does not exist, are factually incorrect and agnostics are correct.
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  33. #233 Re: Truth 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    atheists who claim that god does not exist, are factually incorrect and agnostics are correct.
    Yes. The atheist holds belief, without proof. That's faith...

    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    An atheist may exercise faith. An atheist may understand that is belief without proof.
    Then he is an agnostic.
    Brain fart?
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  34. #234  
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    Pong is correct. Faith does not mean belief in god. It means belief in something of which you have no proof to back up your claim.

    "I have faith the Dodger's will win the world cup" is not a religious orientation of the Dodger's.
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  35. #235  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    So, basically...atheists who claim that god does not exist, are factually incorrect and agnostics are correct.
    Wrong. Theists like yourself who make claims of gods existence are not accepted by atheists, simply because theists like yourself have not demonstrated a single claim. Agnostics are wrong in that they are giving some credibility to theists claims where no credibility is warranted.
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  36. #236  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Theists ...who make claims of gods existence are not accepted by atheists, simply because theists like yourself have not demonstrated a single claim.
    Not accepted by some atheists, Q.

    Some other atheists accept a conscious act of faith over dumb delusion any day.

    I'm yet unsure if kkawohl's religious belief is one or the other. I'm sure now that your atheistic belief, Q, is delusional. So you are right for the wrong reasons.

    That's not good enough. Why not? Because... you may find this surprising... religious belief is an indicator, a sort of test, we use to plumb each other. It's not about deities and miracles any more than Moby Dick's about a huge white whale. But Q you're stuck on the whale. This speaks volumes.
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  37. #237  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Not accepted by some atheists, Q.
    Perhaps you don't know the meaning of atheist. An atheist does not accept the claims of gods existence, that's why he's an atheist.

    Some other atheists accept a conscious act of faith over dumb delusion any day.
    So what?

    I'm yet unsure if kkawohl's religious belief is one or the other. I'm sure now that your atheistic belief, Q, is delusional. So you are right for the wrong reasons.
    So, I'm delusional because I don't accept theists claims for their sky daddies existence? Uh, yeah.

    religious belief is an indicator, a sort of test, we use to plumb each other. It's not about deities and miracles any more than Moby Dick's about a huge white whale. But Q you're stuck on the whale. This speaks volumes.
    I have no idea what you're bleating.
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  38. #238  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Not accepted by some atheists, Q.
    Perhaps you don't know the meaning of atheist. An atheist does not accept the claims of gods existence, that's why he's an atheist.

    So, I'm delusional because I don't accept theists claims for their sky daddies existence? Uh, yeah.
    It is no wonder that you consider yourself an atheist if your perceptions of god is a "sky daddy". To me god is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe.
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  39. #239  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    It is no wonder that you consider yourself an atheist if your perceptions of god is a "sky daddy". To me god is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe.
    Anybody can string a bunch of words together, Kurt.
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  40. #240  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    It is no wonder that you consider yourself an atheist if your perceptions of god is a "sky daddy". To me god is the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe.
    Anybody can string a bunch of words together, Kurt.
    God is whatever one wants god to be...it's a word invented by man.
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  41. #241  
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    Kkawol believes in the einsteinian god.. God as nature, but not as sentient.
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  42. #242  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Kkawol believes in the einsteinian god.. God as nature, but not as sentient.
    I consider myself a spiritual transcendologist...I believe that all life depicts a spiritual sentient god.
    :wink:
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  43. #243  
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    I also believe Kkawohl doesn't know what sentient means.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sentient
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  44. #244  
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    All life depicts a spiritual sentient god...a god that is able to perceive sensation, sensitive in perception or feeling...capable of feeling, living, live; conscious, aware, responsive, reactive...spirit in nature...the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe.
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  45. #245  
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    you're rambling again.
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  46. #246  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Theists like yourself who make claims of gods existence are not accepted by atheists, simply because theists like yourself have not demonstrated a single claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Not accepted by some atheists, Q.
    Perhaps you don't know the meaning of atheist. An atheist does not accept the claims of gods existence, that's why he's an atheist.
    First you're talking about accepting the theist, then you switch it to the theism. You reject both, and confound them. I accept one but not the other. In fact I believe most of us are better off as theists.

    As an atheist, I personally couldn't care less about the claims. I simply can't believe in God, whatever miracles may part from the clouds - I would not believe my eyes - or, my weak mind, to be honest. I'll likely carry this insidious state of faith all my life, whatever happens.

    So, incidentally, I don't accept the claims of theists, but that is not why I'm atheist. Essentially, I'm simply not theistic. I believe that is the meaning of atheist, Q. What you've tacked on to the definition is your own thing: anti-theism, validated by arguing against theists.

    I would suggest, for everybody's piece of mind, you quit the aggravated anti-theist posture in favour of atheism. I think you can find it under the barricade. But so much hostility suggests counter-script, fanaticism, like you're acting out inner conflict. So maybe you're unready to resolve, or who knows maybe you could... um, you know. Whichever way you go, I hope it true to who you are.

    ***

    @kkawohl. Whatever your God is, you plainly can't define it so others understand. You know, many successful songwriters throw a raft of charged words together and everybody says "Whoa... deep." Maybe what you type appeals to you in that way? Let's just say God is the walrus.
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  47. #247  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong

    So, incidentally, I don't accept the claims of theists, but that is not why I'm atheist. Essentially, I'm simply not theistic. I believe that is the meaning of atheist, Q. What you've tacked on to the definition is your own thing: anti-theism, validated by arguing against theists.
    Nonsense. Religion is based entirely on the claims of theists. Theists claim their gods exist, theists claim the universe was created by their god, theists claim the afterlife, devils, angels and all sorts of hob-goblins exist.

    In other words, all claims of religion have originated from theists. So, one simply does or does not accept their claims. Simple, really.

    Anti-theism is something entirely different, it is active opposition to theism.

    I would suggest, for everybody's piece of mind, you quit the aggravated anti-theist posture in favour of atheism.
    You've been shown wrong. Bite me.
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  48. #248  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    All life depicts a spiritual sentient god...a god that is able to perceive sensation, sensitive in perception or feeling...capable of feeling, living, live; conscious, aware, responsive, reactive...spirit in nature...the progressive spiritual consciousness of the universe.
    Stringing random words together does not a statement make, other than the underlying statement of confusion and delusion on your part.
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  49. #249  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God is whatever one wants god to be...it's a word invented by man.
    Some man made inventions are conveniently ignored by those whose blindness is the result of faith and delusion.
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  50. #250  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    I consider myself a spiritual transcendologist...
    Much like a Napoleon complex, others perceive quite differently your station. Strange though, that you would label yourself two adjectives? Curious...

    I believe that all life depicts a spiritual sentient god.
    Adding myth and superstition atop simple explanations merely serves to add unnecessary, irrelevant and confusing complexity, and does nothing to add value to the explanation. Useless information that can be discarded as it serves no purpose.
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  51. #251  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    God is whatever one wants god to be...it's a word invented by man.
    Some man made inventions are conveniently ignored by those whose blindness is the result of faith and delusion.
    IMHO, many man-made inventions are the results of delusions and blind faith.

    The delusion on your part is that you think you know that god does not exist, without knowing what god is.
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  52. #252  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    I consider myself a spiritual transcendologist...
    Strange though, that you would label yourself two adjectives? Curious...
    a word ending in ..ist is an adjective?
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  53. #253  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    IMHO, many man-made inventions are the results of delusions and blind faith.
    Your statements would stand to reason based on the fact that many theists fallaciously defend their religions when they are unable to demonstrate their claims, somehow imagining they've actually made a point.

    The delusion on your part is that you think you know that god does not exist, without knowing what god is.
    A delusion on your part would be you telling us what you "know" about god.

    And of course, it's not a matter at all as to what I might know or not know, it always has been and always will be a matter of YOUR ability to demonstrate your claims about god, which you have so far failed miserably at achieving.

    So, unless you can demonstrate them, you've got nothing of value to say.
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  54. #254  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    A delusion on your part would be you telling us what you "know" about god.

    ...it always has been and always will be a matter of YOUR ability to demonstrate your claims about god, which you have so far failed miserably at achieving.

    So, unless you can demonstrate them, you've got nothing of value to say.
    Value is in the eyes of the beholder. To you spirituality has no value. A man without spirit only knows what he sees; he is spiritually lifeless and unable to perceive god or a demonstration of god.
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  55. #255  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    Value is in the eyes of the beholder. To you spirituality has no value. A man without spirit only knows what he sees; he is mentally lifeless.
    Clearly, your grasping at straws like some disgruntled kindergarten child who lost his bag of marbles... or just his marbles, in your case.

    Your endless stream of haphazard words and phrases strung together is such tedium, Kurt. Is there anything in your repertoire that isn't based on a lack of attention span?
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  56. #256  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong

    So, incidentally, I don't accept the claims of theists, but that is not why I'm atheist. Essentially, I'm simply not theistic. I believe that is the meaning of atheist, Q. What you've tacked on to the definition is your own thing: anti-theism, validated by arguing against theists.
    Nonsense. Religion is based entirely on the claims of theists. Theists claim their gods exist, theists claim the universe was created by their god, theists claim...
    Well there's Buddhism, the kernel of it being manifestly impossible to claim in any sense of the word. Buddhism is not based on claims - it's just the opposite. And most monotheists and pantheists (i.e. the billions who won't debate you on this forum) make minimal claims, then only when pressed to articulate. Also the theists who try to make claims but can't because, as you say, their words come across as "stream of haphazard words and phrases strung together" - which you yourself insist is not a "point" - fail to formulate a claim. Yet claim or no claim, the religion is there.

    Again Q you're tacking to a definition your own thing, in this case "religion is... the claims of theists".

    Simultaneously complaining our religious friend kkawohl makes no clear claims, is just idiotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    one simply does or does not accept their claims. Simple, really.
    That's too much work, defining atheism by all it rejects - and you prove it ad nauseum. One may simply be non theistic. Atheism requires ignorance, disregard, or incapacity. In other words, religion just isn't happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Anti-theism is something entirely different, it is active opposition to theism.
    Yes. If one feels theism threatening.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    You've been shown wrong. Bite me.
    Where?
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  57. #257  
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    The term consciousness is often used as alternative to spirit, as where it is said that consciousness and matter are the two aspects of parabrahman or that consciousness is the purest form of cosmic force; yet, strictly speaking, consciousness is an attribute of active spirit. It is sometimes called the universal life, the kosmic force-substance.
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  58. #258  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    @kkawohl. Whatever your God is, you plainly can't define it so others understand....Let's just say God is the walrus.
    That is clearly my shortcoming...but as I've said before, God is whatever one wants it to be...walrus is fine. :wink:
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  59. #259  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    The term consciousness is often used as alternative to spirit
    No, it is not, that is complete nonsense, Kurt. Deluded theists attempt to argue such claptrap, but it comes down to their sheer ignorance of the subject matter. You appear to exhibit the same ignorance.

    as where it is said that consciousness and matter are the two aspects of parabrahman or that consciousness is the purest form of cosmic force; yet, strictly speaking, consciousness is an attribute of active spirit. It is sometimes called the universal life, the kosmic force-substance.
    Once again, you are stringing nonsensical words and phrases together that mean absolutely nothing. Your intellect in this matter is equivalent to a child pretending they are a jedi master, or some such kindergarten folly.

    You really need to grow up if you're going to discuss things with adults, Kurt.
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  60. #260  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    The term consciousness is often used as alternative to spirit
    No, it is not, that is complete nonsense, .
    Your atheistic redundancy is in brain freeze mode...spirit is not necessarily theistic...spirit enlivens, invigorates, animates. Without spirit you are a zombie.
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  61. #261  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Atheism requires ignorance, disregard, or incapacity.
    The single qualifier of your post speaks volumes.

    You are an atheist to all other gods you don't believe in, hence you also don't accept the claims of the theists who purport those gods existence.
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  62. #262  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Without spirit you are a zombie.
    You make yourself look the idiot with each post. Zombies, Kurt? Grow up.
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  63. #263  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Without spirit you are a zombie.
    You make yourself look the idiot with each post. Zombies, Kurt? Grow up.
    Have I struck a nerve? Will you have to admit that you have spirit?
    I stand by my quote, without spirit you are a zombie...a spiritless zombie.

    There is nothing supernatural about spirit; it enlivens, invigorates, animates.
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  64. #264  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Atheism requires ignorance, disregard, or incapacity.
    The single qualifier of your post speaks volumes.

    You are an atheist to all other gods you don't believe in, hence you also don't accept the claims of the theists who purport those gods existence.
    I guessed that line would tickle you. Where's the superiority in atheism?

    One may be atheist for that last reason alone - incapacity. For me, that's basically how it is. Like, I am not a mathematician simply because I don't think that way. Whether or not I accept particular claims by mathematicians is incidental. Mathematics may say one thing, but I interpret the world in a very literal, concrete sense, so the claim seems less relevant to me. This is not agnosticism, because my reality is already set. I can force myself to see in math, but I'm faking. I'm not mathematical, in the same way I'm not theistic.

    Like, a queen's bishop can't take an opposing queen's bishop. It simply can't occupy the right colour square. We wouldn't explain a bishop's move by saying bishops reject the other colour. Rejection requires option.

    Your basic atheist is simply not theistic. Whether that is a natural or quirky person is debatable. Theism may be somewhat innate.

    One could be atheistic for other reasons, but thank goodness we needn't all be Qs enthralled to rejecting religion.
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    Surely being atheist can be more than simple inaffinity to theism? I mean, atheism as such is a simple thing: you don't believe in any form of a god. But the reasons behind that can be very varied. I for one like to limit myself to real things. In other words, I don't believe in a god, simply because I am entirely sure that no such thing exist objectively. Sure, as kkawohl believes, any god is real for the person that believes in that god, but there is an ultimate truth out there that is independant on our petty understandings. This ultimate truth, to me, certainly does not contain a god, or spirits etc. and wanting to invent them for my own reality, as it was invented countless times before (since no theists understanding of a god is the same) is simply not an option. God, in essence, is not needed.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  66. #266  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Surely being atheist can be more than simple inaffinity to theism?
    Sure, there are many forms of atheism, not exclusive either. Like, I may lack the spiritual constitution for theism (so am atheist by default) yet I also doubt the faith-healing of Falun Gong so I'm positively atheistic there too, and even anti-theistic toward the cult if anyone cares to champion it.

    The religious view atheists as people who reject (their) God. It's a subjective definition, and it frames an argument. But if you look at the word, all it means is "not theist" and such a basic category I think is useful. We can further define by adding words, as in "strong atheist" or "rational atheist" or whatever, just as with religious denominations or any kinds of beliefs and positions.
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  67. #267  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    ...I for one like to limit myself to real things...kkawohl believes, any god is real for the person that believes in that god, but there is an ultimate truth out there that is independant on our petty understandings..
    Pong refers to a "rational atheist". Is there rational spirituality?

    "Religious rationality" (transcendology) attempts to use metaphysical discipline to determine the nature of the human soul by a priori reasoning. It is the study of that which transcends physics. Many philosophers such as Immanuel Kant argued that certain questions concerning metaphysics (notably those surrounding the existence of God, soul, and freedom) are inherent to human reason and have always intrigued mankind. Some examples are:

    What is the nature of reality?
    Why does the world exist, and what is its origin or source of creation?
    Does the world exist outside the mind?
    If things exist, what is their objective nature?

    There will always be (Karlster) "an ultimate truth out there that is independant of our petty understandings."
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  68. #268  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Pong refers to a "rational atheist"
    In the sense of "whatever". Kkawohl's cue to ramble about transcendology.

    Would it help if I start a transcendology thread?
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  69. #269  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl

    Have I struck a nerve? Will you have to admit that you have spirit?
    I stand by my quote, without spirit you are a zombie...a spiritless zombie.
    The only nerve you struck is the nerve you have insulting our intelligence with your blathering delusions.

    I envision a lottery machine with balls that have nonsensical words written on them, whenever you feel the urge to communicate, the machine churns out the words for you.
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  70. #270  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    I am not a mathematician simply because I don't think that way.
    That is quite simply a lack of education on your part.

    One could be atheistic for other reasons, but thank goodness we needn't all be Qs enthralled to rejecting religion.
    Yeah, thank goodness.
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