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Thread: Is this dumb, far fetched?

  1. #1 Is this dumb, far fetched? 
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    The Religion facts website under the topic of Chinese religion, then you would go under the topic of folk deities has a few words about the belief in place gods. "One common type of Chinese deity is the "place god" or T'u-ti (Pinyin: Tudi). The primary characteristic of a place god is the limitation of his jurisdiction to a specific location, like a bridge, home, street, or field." Anyways, is it possible for there to be all kinds of place gods over each area, with communication limited to the people that are under their "area?" Say that your spirit has to pass through all areas under which different "place gods" have control over. (Like after death) Maybe these "place gods" are over nature in that area which could be one way of communication for them. What if you had to do certain rituals or whatever in order to please them. What about stuff like gods with limited power or limits to their communication. Hopefully, this isn't to dumb if so I can prove some smarts. I asked someone I knew about this, and they said " I don't think that way" and also that I was blowing this way out of proportion. Maybe I'm missing something simple, and that being the reason as to why I've never really seen or heard anyone talk about something like this. I guess you can get really analytical about stuff like this. I do have an anxiety disorder which may not help in me thinking clearly so if someone could say if they've every thought this way or give any advice on topics such as this. Thanks to anyone for replies.


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  3. #2  
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    There aren't really any place gods. Does that help?


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  4. #3  
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    Explain please. Thanks.
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  5. #4  
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    Simply put, there is no god. A lot of people believe there is God (or Gods), but that does not make it true.
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  6. #5  
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    I didn't mean that simple, maybe I worded my post a bit wrong. I was hoping someone could talk a little bit about this subject like god or gods being limited in power or in communication. Thanks for pitying me. I look up to your intelligence.
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  7. #6  
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    From my observation, the majority of people participating this forum are either atheists, who do not have any beliefs in god(s), or Christian s and Muslims, who believe in a God with unlimited power, wisdom, love etc. I'm afraid they cannot help you much.
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  8. #7  
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    Alright, so Harold help me out here...
    This may be thinking way out there... yikes...but What if there was only place god, like over some city that you may not ever go to. Maybe they use fire as a way to communicate to those people in that area to show them what pleases this "place god". Maybe theres a penalty for not doing certain rituals. Like a hell. How would we know say over here what he would be saying? By other people that live in that area?... thanks. I think I've thought too much about this lol...
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  9. #8  
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    When you mentioned you had an anxiety disorder, I took it to mean you might be staying up nights worrying about what the place gods are going to do to you. That's why I said they don't exist, just like I would have told my daughter that the monster under her bed she was worrying about is not real.

    Maybe instead you do not actually believe in place gods but you are just using your imagination to figure out what it might be like. If that's the case, I can't help you much. Your imagination is a lot better than mine.
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  10. #9  
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    Worrying does have to be mixed together with some belief so... hmm... I wondered if a situation like that could be true... I felt like I added on some possibilities to that way of believing. But your were right on the assumption me worrying. I was just asking to why you yourself didn't believe in them. I'm not sure even how someone would know if they were there. Thanks Harold for the intent to help me not to worry.
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  11. #10  
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    I think you are going to have to pick one religion and stick with that one. You can't believe them all and most of them only allow you to believe that one.

    If you want to believe in the Chinese place gods, I think you are still okay. These gods are mostly to protect the people living in an area from outsiders. So as long as you don't mess with the people they are protecting, they'll leave you alone.
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  12. #11  
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    Say I don't believe in place gods. Say I'm unsure. As someone would look for evidence of a supreme God would that be any different when looking for existence of smaller gods?
    Do you go about it the same way?
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  13. #12  
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    Sarah wrote:
    As someone would look for evidence of a supreme God would that be any different when looking for existence of smaller gods?
    Same thing. If you are skeptical you probably will not find any credible evidence. If you are hopeful you most certainly will find 'signs' that support your belief. People are adept in interpreting random phenomenon into meaningful manifestation.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by prasit
    Sarah wrote:
    As someone would look for evidence of a supreme God would that be any different when looking for existence of smaller gods?
    Same thing. If you are skeptical you probably will not find any credible evidence. If you are hopeful you most certainly will find 'signs' that support your belief. People are adept in interpreting random phenomenon into meaningful manifestation.
    Amen.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

    http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php

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    What about a possible scenario like in my 4th post on this thread? With a smaller god, not necessarily a place god, but one over a certain area, that you may never go to? If it didn't know all, if it wasn't omniscient, and assuming it was caring for us, then what would it expect of us? Would it expect us to do? Obviously you can't go everywhere. I'm assuming if there was a small god somewhere you might not ever go to you would know exist but how so? Seeing as the evidence would only be in its area of it existing. Also as far as looking for evidence how far would he/she/it expect you to go?
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  16. #15  
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    But so far it is all pure speculation. You don't have any facts to support that. It is just a wishful thinking. I can also say that there is a thousand gods having a party in the center of the sun, and no one can disprove that. But would you believe it too?
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  17. #16  
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    I don't believe that just what if that were so what would your answers be to those questions? Assuming that such a god, if there was one, cared about your afterlife. Thanks.
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  18. #17  
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    I just don't understand yet if there was on somewhere you may never go to how you would even know exists... you know a small god that is limited in power and communication.
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  19. #18  
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    The more you say, the less I understand. So let's get back to the original question:
    Anyways, is it possible for there to be all kinds of place gods over each area, with communication limited to the people that are under their "area?"
    The Hypothesis is that there are 'place gods' in China. There is no scientific experiment or observation to validate hypothesis, to date.

    Now we need to address the our underlying principle:

    Do we believe that an entity exists unless it is proved not to, or do we believe that an entity does not exists unless it is proved to be?
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  20. #19  
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    The second one. Thanks so much prasit.
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  21. #20  
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    So do you think that since there has not been any experiments as of yet that if there were one would he expect one of us to do so? If there were one done I guess you would see it on the news right?
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  22. #21  
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    Typically the believers will say that the magic will not work under controlled experiments, because God will not obey the experimenter, or whatever.
    The lack of news on the experiments indicate either that there was none, or there were some, but the results are not newsworthy.
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  23. #22  
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    What about in remote places or where the media isn't nearby? Would that god, if real, expect us (me or you) to do one (an experiment) in places such as those? Can anyone tell me what I am missing about stuff like this and why no one else worries about this? That way I can stop bugging you guys. I'm beginning to doubt my intelligence, and thats being optimistic.
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  24. #23  
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    I don't know about your intelligence, but I do not I am not intelligent enough to understand what you mean. I will try to express my opinion and hope that it is relevance to your question.

    The belief in gods, big or small, worldwide or local, is based on faith, i.e. believing without the need of evidence or proof.

    Atheist says that without objective evidence, there is no reason to believe that god exists.

    If you doubt whether place gods exist, but you have no concrete evidence that they do, then you should assume that they don't.
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  25. #24  
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    So the people over in China that believe in these have no evidence at all to rely on and their just using faith? I have to have some evidence that I see as reliable.
    Prasit, is it normal to think this way? The people closest to me believe in a supreme god, I won't say what religion. As in my parents, pretty much my whole family. Their reasons don't satisfy me enough to also believe what they believe. What do people do if their in this situation? I feel very out of place... somewhat condemned by them, and weird. Thanks.
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  26. #25  
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    the onus of proof is on the person who claims that something exists, since proof of non-existence is only possibly in special cases where a well-defined entity is either present or absent in a limited time and space interval

    the concept of god does not fall in the category that allows proof of non-existence because 1. god's properties are not well-defined and 2. he's supposed to be omnipresent

    therefore the onus of proof is on the person claiming that god exists
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  27. #26  
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    Alright - Polythiests usually don't believe their gods are all powerful. Very powerful, yes. All powerful, no.

    They often don't believe that their attention to these gods has anything to do with whether they'll be ok in the afterlife or not.

    Imagine if Zeus was the originator or all morality for you. Would you then have to cheat on your wife in order to be saved in the afterlife?
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    What if the people that are supposed to provide evidence concerning some god some where are in a remote location and can't say publish stuff in a science journal or they lack technology or something. See I think I understand that the burden of proof is on the person who claims If these gods exist right ? Also, If a god would be small somewhere they wouldn't have all knowledge therefore wouldn't know your heart since you may be across the world right? That worries me a bit, say if god(s) don't know your heart. I'm guessing though that if such a god was caring he/she/it would know that they aren't therefore be fair in not punishing you. Is that a good assumption? Also, I was thinking that is there any possibility for a smaller god to know of a force that you need to be protected from in the afterlife but may not be able to communicate to you what would do so. Yes, I know all speculation, I'm just looking for some way to ease my mind bout some of these things. Thanks.
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  29. #28  
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    My point is that these "gods" probably have nothing to do with their eternal salvation/damnation.

    Not everyone who believes in a "god" believes that that god cares what they do or holds judgement over them in any way shape or form.

    Place gods probably don't know your heart and soul, nor do they probably care. They more likely judge you on whether you made the appropriate sacrifices to them, or were properly respectful to their territory. If you've been lazy about it, they probably don't much care why, nor what you were thinking.
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  30. #29  
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    So you don't think it is possible that your spirit after death would be required to go across the world, therefore going under each gods territory and you get punished because you were too far away to know that they existed. I'm hoping that this wouldn't be possible in some way. I don't know if it seems like something in a science fiction book or not I also wandered if anyone has ever thought about something like that being possible. I think it was the Greeks, not for sure though but some ancient people in the past that believed your spirit passed by the sun or something after you died and thats is where that thought sparked from. I remember Pheobe on Friends made some joking remark about some lady that died on her massage table and that she thought that lady would want to go see the world instead of the coffee shop) where Phoebe thought she was. I once thought how could such small gods cause me any damage and then I thought that. So can you tell me why thats not something to worry about. If you think that what you've said in the last two posts(kojax) is a good answer you don't have to type it all again but just put same. I'm just hoping someone has thought this, and there not worried about it. Thanks. I shouldn't have that many posts left on this sorry to bug.
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    Ah, the common western misconception (I take it that you don't know much about Chinese or Asian culture, huh?). I think what you're referring to is the "土地公," or literally the "earth old man" (old man of the earth would make more sense in English. . .). I'm not really clear on your question here. Are you asking that multiple "Tu Di Gong" exists, or that can one communicate with them? On the communication part, yes it is possible, through the human mediums (if you believe in that sort of thing). See, the thing is, the west and the east have two very different perceptions on the concept of "god." When the west hears of the term "god(s)," immediately the assumption of polytheism arise. That't not the case here. In most of the Far East Asian cultures, the term "god" is only a title denoting higher level "entities" to be more specific. Hell man, even humans can become gods. There's a term in Chinese, "神仙," which has no direct translation in English because it is a concept that does not exist in English. So how would one translate the word? Either as "god" or "immortal."

    Hopefully some useful information can be garnered from this little rant here; I apologize for the lengthiness
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