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Thread: UK Petition Against Faith Based Education

  1. #1 UK Petition Against Faith Based Education 
    Forum Masters Degree geezer's Avatar
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    Please Sign Up, if you feel as we do:

    We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Abolish all faith schools and prohibit the teaching of creationism and other religious mythology in all UK schools.

    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/

    as the road charges debate showed, atleast it may raise this into the public conciousness.

    Faith schools remove the rights of children to choose their own religious, philosophical and ethical beliefs. They also sanction ethnic segregation and create tension and divisiveness within society. Schools should be places where children are given a free education, not centres for indoctrination. Creationism and other religious myths should not be taught as fact regardless of the funding status of a school. Abolishing faith schools will provide children with more freedom of choice and help to promote a fully multi-cultural, peaceful society.


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  3. #2  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i usually don't sign petitions, but i've made an exception for this one
    thanks for bringing it to my attention


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  4. #3  
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  5. #4  
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    Are you saying the UK has religion in their public schools? I highly doubt that, so I think you are saying parents shouldn't have the right to raise their kids as they see fit. That being the case, I think you should mind your own business. Has the nanny state really gotten to that point over there? Wow. Something like that would start an armed insurrection here in the USA.
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    Wait...are these "faith schools" private? Are they government funded?

    If they're private and aren't government funded, then I see no reason to abolish them.

    If they are public and are government funded, then you should only get rid of government-funded 'faith schools'.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  7. #6  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i think it's about some of the city academies who are state schools that can be partly funded by private donors - in the example of the link by someone with a fundamentalist agenda

    [edit]
    have a look at this one as well : City schools could be front for evangelists
    [/edit]
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    i think it's about some of the city academies who are state schools that can be partly funded by private donors - in the example of the link by someone with a fundamentalist agenda
    Well if it's a state school then by all means get rid of it.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  9. #8  
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    As much as i would like to sign it, i cant. I went to a state funded faith (Christian) school and i didn't end up as a christian. I received a education that was as good as a private one which would not have been possible any other way. Perhaps I'm wrong but i thought the education a child received in any school was set by the national curriculum ?
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  10. #9  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Any action that allows a child to be free of religious influence, whether in school, at play, or at home has my admiration. Every child deserves the right to someday, as an adult, make their own conclusions about religion. The rights of the child outweigh those of the teacher. State funded, private or whatever, doesn't matter....a law should be enacted forbidding the teachng of religious ideology to protect the innocents.

    I would sign the petition in a heartbeat.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Any action that allows a child to be free of religious influence, whether in school, at play, or at home has my admiration. Every child deserves the right to someday, as an adult, make their own conclusions about religion. The rights of the child outweigh those of the teacher. State funded, private or whatever, doesn't matter....a law should be enacted forbidding the teachng of religious ideology to protect the innocents.

    I would sign the petition in a heartbeat.
    I agree with ending public, but not private faith-based schools. People have the right to teach their kids what they consider as 'right'. Just as we can teach our children that it's not proper to speak with food in their mouths, we can teach them that it's proper to praise God. They have all right to change their minds when they get older, but as kids, they are under our jurisdiction, and the government has no right (legally or morally) to prevent us from teaching our children what we believe to be correct. I think it correct to ban religion in state-funded institutions, because religion must be separated from state, but not in private organisations, where the gov't has no jurisdiction.

    Edit: You are imposing your belief that children should do whatever they want and make their own choices on others; this is not right. You are imposing your belief in secularism on private organisations; this isn't right.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  12. #11  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    the problem is that people have been hoodwinked into a false sense of security by "tame" faith schools such as Church-of-England and catholic schools who for all intents and purposes are pretty mainstream - unfortunately they're not all this innocuous, especially some of the latest city academies
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    we can teach them that it's proper to praise God.
    what your missing here is, without a factual basis to there ideologies, any teaching of religion is wrong. schools and parents should teach there children truth/facts, and dont get me wrong, if religion had a factual base then I would be all for it being teached.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    They have all right to change their minds when they get older, but as kids, they are under our jurisdiction,
    all the more reason why we should allow them to be children, and not lie to them, or put fear in there hearts.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    and the government has no right (legally or morally) to prevent us from teaching our children what we believe to be correct.
    but the government sets the laws, the government does what it's people request if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I think it correct to ban religion in state-funded institutions, because religion must be separated from state, but not in private organisations, where the gov't has no jurisdiction.
    but if those private organisation are a direct contradiction to a counties law, they should be closed, if a private organistation avocated slavery, paedophila, or child abuse on it's premise should it be allowed solely because it's private.

    I've put child abuse, and lets be quite clear it is child abuse teaching a child that they should fear being burn for eternity because a baseless imaginary creature in the sky/a grand master of the universe will send them there, if they dont prostrate thenselves to it, but it love them, now thats child abuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Edit: You are imposing your belief that children should do whatever they want and make their own choices on others; this is not right. You are imposing your belief in secularism on private organisations; this isn't right.
    wrong, it's allowing the child, the individual, to right to decide for themselves, at this moment they haven't got that choice.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    we can teach them that it's proper to praise God.
    what your missing here is, without a factual basis to there ideologies, any teaching of religion is wrong.
    all the more reason to believe you're an atheist activist who should simply be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    schools and parents should teach there children truth/facts, and dont get me wrong, if religion had a factual base then I would be all for it being teached.
    Hmm...first, who's to say religion is not truth? Second, my parents taught me facts, in addition to religion. I have been in no way deprived of education. In addition, I know more about atheism than some atheists; more about Hinduism than some Hindus; more about Islam than some Muslims. I'm sure the same cannot be said for you, who choose to avoid learning anything about religion, and thus is ignorant in that field. Third, morals are quite similar to religion in that there is no factual base to (most of) them. Are you suggesting, then, that morals not be taught to children? As you said, only factual things must be taught. It's not a fact that killing and stealing is wrong; nor is it a fact that intolerance is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    They have all right to change their minds when they get older, but as kids, they are under our jurisdiction,
    all the more reason why we should allow them to be children, and not lie to them, or put fear in there hearts.
    Yes, allow them to be children: allow them to be taught what you, as a parent, want them to be taught. Allow them to learn so they can make their own decisions as an adult; and hopefully follow the life you've been trying to teach them to follow. Allowing children to do whatever they want is exactly what's causing schools to be so horrible now-a-days. Have you ever noticed how well-mannered private/home schooled children are? Because they are taught correctness, not allowed to do whatever they want because they're 'just expressing themselves'.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    and the government has no right (legally or morally) to prevent us from teaching our children what we believe to be correct.
    but the government sets the laws, the government does what it's people request if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    Exactly. People don't want the government to be mingling in their private affairs; the government should stick to public affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    I had to pick this up. You do have the choice to leave, but the question is: can you leave? Not everyone can leave when the government becomes tyrannous and decides to start taking control of their personal life.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I think it correct to ban religion in state-funded institutions, because religion must be separated from state, but not in private organisations, where the gov't has no jurisdiction.
    but if those private organisation are a direct contradiction to a counties law, they should be closed, if a private organistation avocated slavery, paedophila, or child abuse on it's premise should it be allowed solely because it's private.
    I would really like to know which of the "country's laws" private religious organizations have violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    I've put child abuse, and lets be quite clear it is child abuse teaching a child that they should fear being burn for eternity because a baseless imaginary creature in the sky/a grand master of the universe will send them there, if they dont prostrate thenselves to it, but it love them, now thats child abuse.
    That's exactly the effects of your ignorance of religion. I suggest doing some real studies on religion; perhaps making friends with a few Christians, and see through the eyes of a religious person, rather than confine yourself to your own views. Of course they don't say to children 'you're gonna burn in hell if you don't listen to what we say.' Ever heard of Sunday school? In the Christian religion (and most every religion), they teach children of God's goodness, and teach them that if they're 'good little boys and girls,' they'd go to heaven, and that if they're bad, they go to the 'bad place', without really describing in vivid detail what hell is like. It's just like threatening to punish a child if s/he fights his/her siblings. And what about religions that don't believe in hell? Did you know religions like those exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Edit: You are imposing your belief that children should do whatever they want and make their own choices on others; this is not right. You are imposing your belief in secularism on private organisations; this isn't right.
    wrong, it's allowing the child, the individual, to right to decide for themselves, at this moment they haven't got that choice.
    Well, if you believe that your child should be allowed to do whatever he/she wants, then go ahead, but don't instruct people to bring up their children the way you see fit.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    we can teach them that it's proper to praise God.
    what your missing here is, without a factual basis to there ideologies, any teaching of religion is wrong.
    all the more reason to believe you're an atheist activist who should simply be ignored.
    lol yes me and the other 10% of the worlds population. "good sense should be ignored at all cost"(sarcasm)
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    schools and parents should teach there children truth/facts, and dont get me wrong, if religion had a factual base then I would be all for it being teached.
    Hmm...first, who's to say religion is not truth?
    nobody, but we cant verify it, can we, so without a factual basis, it would be wrong to push it as truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Second, my parents taught me facts, in addition to religion. I have been in no way deprived of education.
    your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    In addition, I know more about atheism than some atheists; more about Hinduism than some Hindus; more about Islam than some Muslims.
    your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I'm sure the same cannot be said for you,
    I dont know about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    who choose to avoid learning anything about religion, and thus is ignorant in that field.
    have I upset you in someway, and could you tell me how you seem to know so much about me, no on second thoughts dont bother I wouldn't want to have a battle of wits with a one armed man.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    . Third, morals are quite similar to religion in that there is no factual base to (most of) them. Are you suggesting, then, that morals not be taught to children?
    morals have absolutely nothing to do with relgion, so your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    As you said, only factual things must be taught. It's not a fact that killing and stealing is wrong; nor is it a fact that intolerance is wrong.
    yes they are, we are all born with a set of inherent morals, we are social animals after all.
    we learn negative morals from our peers.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    They have all right to change their minds when they get older, but as kids, they are under our jurisdiction,
    all the more reason why we should allow them to be children, and not lie to them, or put fear in there hearts.
    Yes, allow them to be children: allow them to be taught what you, as a parent, want them to be taught.
    all I want for my children is for them to learn the three r's, if they wish to learn more, in any given subject that is purely there prerogative
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Allow them to learn so they can make their own decisions as an adult; and hopefully follow the life you've been trying to teach them to follow.
    no to follow the life they wish to live, after all they are individuals not sheep.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Allowing children to do whatever they want is exactly what's causing schools to be so horrible now-a-days. Have you ever noticed how well-mannered private/home schooled children are? Because they are taught correctness, not allowed to do whatever they want because they're 'just expressing themselves'.
    who said anything about allowing children to do as they want, we are talking about not teaching them stuff with no factual base.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    and the government has no right (legally or morally) to prevent us from teaching our children what we believe to be correct.
    but the government sets the laws, the government does what it's people request if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    Exactly. People don't want the government to be mingling in their private affairs; the government should stick to public affairs.
    then they should use there vote to change the government. that's why the were voted in in the first place, to serve and protect.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    I had to pick this up. You do have the choice to leave, but the question is: can you leave? Not everyone can leave when the government becomes tyrannous and decides to start taking control of their personal life.
    talk about jumping to extremes, we are talking about the UK here.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I think it correct to ban religion in state-funded institutions, because religion must be separated from state, but not in private organisations, where the gov't has no jurisdiction.
    but if those private organisation are a direct contradiction to a counties law, they should be closed, if a private organistation avocated slavery, paedophila, or child abuse on it's premise should it be allowed solely because it's private.
    I would really like to know which of the "country's laws" private religious organizations have violated.
    child abuse, in the guise of religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    I've put child abuse, and lets be quite clear it is child abuse teaching a child that they should fear being burn for eternity because a baseless imaginary creature in the sky/a grand master of the universe will send them there, if they dont prostrate thenselves to it, but it love them, now thats child abuse.
    That's exactly the effects of your ignorance of religion. I suggest doing some real studies on religion; perhaps making friends with a few Christians, and see through the eyes of a religious person, rather than confine yourself to your own views. Of course they don't say to children 'you're gonna burn in hell if you don't listen to what we say.' Ever heard of Sunday school?
    yes been there as a child.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    In the Christian religion (and most every religion), they teach children of God's goodness, and teach them that if they're 'good little boys and girls,' they'd go to heaven, and that if they're bad, they go to the 'bad place', without really describing in vivid detail what hell is like.
    exactly putting fear where no fear need be put.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    It's just like threatening to punish a child if s/he fights his/her siblings.
    sorry no comparison, if a child fights his siblings, he's doing something deserved of discipline, but if he forgot to pray, or say grace, this is not worthy of any discipline, but the child now thinks god going to harm him.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    And what about religions that don't believe in hell? Did you know religions like those exist?
    anything that taught to child should have some assemblance of facts within it's mandate.
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Edit: You are imposing your belief that children should do whatever they want and make their own choices on others; this is not right. You are imposing your belief in secularism on private organisations; this isn't right.
    wrong, it's allowing the child, the individual, to right to decide for themselves, at this moment they haven't got that choice.
    Well, if you believe that your child should be allowed to do whatever he/she wants, then go ahead, but don't instruct people to bring up their children the way you see fit.
    again with this do as they want, no just not being taught baseless information.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    we can teach them that it's proper to praise God.
    what your missing here is, without a factual basis to there ideologies, any teaching of religion is wrong.
    all the more reason to believe you're an atheist activist who should simply be ignored.
    lol yes me and the other 10% of the worlds population. "good sense should be ignored at all cost"(sarcasm)
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    schools and parents should teach there children truth/facts, and dont get me wrong, if religion had a factual base then I would be all for it being teached.
    Hmm...first, who's to say religion is not truth?
    nobody, but we cant verify it, can we, so without a factual basis, it would be wrong to push it as truth.
    Actually, you've just clearly said religion is not truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    schools and parents should teach there children truth/facts, and dont get me wrong, if religion had a factual base then I would be all for it being teached.
    It is clear that you're saying religion is not truth, and I'm asking 'who's to say this?'
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Second, my parents taught me facts, in addition to religion. I have been in no way deprived of education.
    your point is.
    My point is that you can learn both religion and facts: teaching children religion doesn't preclude their learning factual things. An atheist gets no more education than a theist, and vv.
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    In addition, I know more about atheism than some atheists; more about Hinduism than some Hindus; more about Islam than some Muslims.
    your point is.
    My point is that people like me are educated on all religions, science, politics, et. al., despite the fact that I was brought up in a Christian household, and in a predominantly Christian country (Jamaica) where they still have religion in schools (though they're tolerant of other religions).

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I'm sure the same cannot be said for you,
    I dont know about that.
    Oh, I'm sure about that: you who claim that:
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    ...any teaching of religion is wrong.
    , and you who outrightly declare yourself an activist. How could you be educated in religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    who choose to avoid learning anything about religion, and thus is ignorant in that field.
    have I upset you in someway, and could you tell me how you seem to know so much about me, no on second thoughts dont bother I wouldn't want to have a battle of wits with a one armed man.
    I don't see how my pointing out that you're ignorant in the field of theology implies that you've upset me; though I must say that your baseless assertions and ridiculous aspirations, as well as your activist ideals have instilled some ire in me.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    . Third, morals are quite similar to religion in that there is no factual base to (most of) them. Are you suggesting, then, that morals not be taught to children?
    morals have absolutely nothing to do with relgion, so your point is.
    Apparently you missed my point entirely. My statement and subsequent question is focused not on drawing a relationship between religion and morals, but rather are focused on proving that a thing does not have to be factual to be worth of being learnt. Hopefully you get what I'm saying this time (though I highly doubt you will).

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    As you said, only factual things must be taught. It's not a fact that killing and stealing is wrong; nor is it a fact that intolerance is wrong.
    yes they are, we are all born with a set of inherent morals, we are social animals after all.
    we learn negative morals from our peers.
    No moral is inherent in the human being. If you want to argue the philosophy of it, I'd be glad to.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    They have all right to change their minds when they get older, but as kids, they are under our jurisdiction,
    all the more reason why we should allow them to be children, and not lie to them, or put fear in there hearts.
    Yes, allow them to be children: allow them to be taught what you, as a parent, want them to be taught.
    all I want for my children is for them to learn the three r's, if they wish to learn more, in any given subject that is purely there prerogative
    Yes, and I respect the way you want to bring up your children. All I ask is that you respect the way others want to bring up their children.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Allow them to learn so they can make their own decisions as an adult; and hopefully follow the life you've been trying to teach them to follow.
    no to follow the life they wish to live, after all they are individuals not sheep.
    Well if you don't want your children to grow up the way you see fit, then that's your problem. I'm sure you'd be delighted if your children grow up to be Christians...after all, they made their own decisions since they were 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Allowing children to do whatever they want is exactly what's causing schools to be so horrible now-a-days. Have you ever noticed how well-mannered private/home schooled children are? Because they are taught correctness, not allowed to do whatever they want because they're 'just expressing themselves'.
    who said anything about allowing children to do as they want,
    You said it, in several of your posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    we are talking about not teaching them stuff with no factual base.
    Like morals, ideals, principles, or manners?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    and the government has no right (legally or morally) to prevent us from teaching our children what we believe to be correct.
    but the government sets the laws, the government does what it's people request if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    Exactly. People don't want the government to be mingling in their private affairs; the government should stick to public affairs.
    then they should use there vote to change the government. that's why the were voted in in the first place, to serve and protect.
    I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to vote out my government because he's mingling in my private affairs; I want my government to stick to public affairs, and not close down private institutions that neither affected the public, nor was affiliated with the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    if you (you in the general meaning) dont wish to be under those rules you have the choice to leave dont you.
    I had to pick this up. You do have the choice to leave, but the question is: can you leave? Not everyone can leave when the government becomes tyrannous and decides to start taking control of their personal life.
    talk about jumping to extremes, we are talking about the UK here.
    Yes. I am talking about the UK. Not everyone can leave the UK if the government becomes tyrannous and starts to mingle in people's private affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    I think it correct to ban religion in state-funded institutions, because religion must be separated from state, but not in private organisations, where the gov't has no jurisdiction.
    but if those private organisation are a direct contradiction to a counties law, they should be closed, if a private organistation avocated slavery, paedophila, or child abuse on it's premise should it be allowed solely because it's private.
    I would really like to know which of the "country's laws" private religious organizations have violated.
    child abuse, in the guise of religion.
    Thanks for your completely unwarranted claim that religion abuses children. This is getting ridiculous now; why am I even arguing with you? It's useless. You've already declared yourself an activist, so obviously your gonna be arrogant, condescending, and believe that only your way can achieve human happiness, and that all other beliefs are horrible, evil, baseless, stupid, and to be done away with. I give up. End of debate. I won't respond to any more of your posts in this thread (unless they're extremely outrageous or silly).
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    UK decides intelligent design is not science

    sometimes things happen that restore my faith in humanity, and this is one of them
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    sometimes things happen that restore my faith in humanity, and this is one of them


    does this count as zero content?
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    naah, it clearly says size=7
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    7 is a good number.
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  21. #20  
    Naz
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    Simpsons said it best;
    "god has no place within these walls (schools) just like facts have no place within organized religion!"
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    signed
    Come see some of my art work at http://nevyn-pendragon.deviantart.com/
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    Well, first off, you have to be a British citizen to sign...which I'm not.

    That said, even if I was, I'd have to do more research before I signed.

    Who here actually READ the petition before signing? Or did you just read the title line and decide from that? I'd be willing to bet a LOT of people simply signed because of the brief preface of the petition.

    I'm not one to stand behind something without knowing what it is. I'm not a sucker.

    That said, I like this one line from one of the intro bits:
    Schools should be places where children are given a free education, not centres for indoctrination.
    LOL. As if the only fault against this is the faith-based schools!

    Creationism and other religious myths should not be taught as fact
    I didn't know this petition was abolishing religion, too? Cool.

    regardless of the funding status of a school.
    Uh, whoa...Funding is not a 'regardless' clause of the issue. Government funded schools that teach according to a singular interest probably shouldn't be funded by the whole (ie - the tax payers). Private schools are a different issue. They're privately funded by folks who (generally) share similar understandings. No one has the right to tell people what to spend their money on.

    Abolishing faith schools will provide children with more freedom of choice and help to promote a fully multi-cultural, peaceful society.
    Oh yeah. Give me a flip'n break! Fully multi-cultural? Peaceful? Prove to me that public schools produce a higher proportion of peaceful citizens than fatih based schools, and maybe there'd be a point. Second, multi-cultural? The number of races in the school, and history class, does not make a school a multi-cultural engine! You have to teach understanding and tolerance without suppressing cultural diversity.

    I think I'll sit on this fence for a bit longer, intellectually, if you don't mind.

    Oh, forgot one thing...Don't parents have the choice of where they want to send their children? If it's between a public school, and a faith-based school, sounds like the children aren't getting kidnapped and forced to go into the faith-based schools.
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    let's maybe make the whole thing clear : these schools are state schools, where'entrepreneurs' have been asked to assist in the costs on the proviso that they then have a larger say over the curriculum

    the 'entrepreneur' in question is a born-again christian and second hand car dealer who sees fit to introduce creationism as part of the science curriculum

    as a parent it's already hard enough to get your child a place outside your catchment area, and even if you succeed, it could well mean a far longer journey to school - hence most parents have not much choice in the matter and their child gets taught bollocks instead of proper science whether they like it or not
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Did you know that many three year olds have minds? Yes they can have their own thoughts! I have spent fourteen years in faith schools and when I was five years old I decided that God didn't exist amongst many other things. And when teachers told me to do things, I discovered a way to keep them happy but at the same time disobey them as have millions young children. I pretended! Children still do this today in any type of school and when they come out of faith schools they may well leave it behind. If children don't listen to P.S.E. lessons then why will they pay attention to religious messages?

    Paedophilia is illegal. Telling people things without evidence is not. Free speech is considered quite important to maintain by many.

    Multiculturalism isn't meant to keep many cultures alive, it is supposed destroy culture altogether, one by one, starting with the country's own culture. We all ready live in a multicultural world, it's just that before one had to go abroad to see it firsthand. One cannot say this petition is suppose to support tolerance because it is intolerant in itself. But Christianity was once Britain's main religion and so it doesn't count.
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