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Thread: Faith, blind faith.

  1. #1 Faith, blind faith. 
    Forum Sophomore susan's Avatar
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    Faith:.

    There has never existed in the world anything more intensely vile, contemptuous, and dangerous to freedom, peace and progress as deeply held blind faith in organized religions and holy dogmas. The Christian dominated society of this country has painted a lovely picture of the faithful flock and how deserving faithful people are of praise and respect. Beneath the Xian whitewash is the plain hard truth. If a person treated his children half as cruelly as the supposedly divine and omnibenevolent Judeo-Christian blood god has treated his children, the Christians would be out to give him the death penalty. Does belief in cruel gods create cruel people, or do cruel people simply make their gods in their own likeness?

    Faith is the nemesis of logic. Where there is religious faith, there can not be logic. The two are quite completely mutually exclusive. In every endeavor other than religion, if a person accepts things as being true with no quality evidence to support such beliefs, then the person is considered foolish and even contemptible by society. When acting exactly the same way regarding religion, the person is considered as perfectly normal. There is in faith an immunity to reality.

    Faith is the destroyer of science and progress. Faith in gods creates a horrible aversion to change. The status quo is the rule of thumb and the "faithful" conservative Xian's morals are the worn out morals of liberals from forty or so years before him. Yet along he goes dragging his feet. "Why free the slaves? It's in the bible." The faithful Xians were enraged when Ben Franklin invented the lightning rod. "It's a sin" they screamed. "God surely controls the lightning and who are you to interfere?" There was Galileo who was tried by the Catholic Church for sacrilege because he claimed the world was round and that the earth orbited the sun, and not the other way around as the bible says. The Fundies are this very minute all across the country attempting to remove evolution from the science books, even though it is established as fact. The list is endless. Religion and science are mutually exclusive. Christian Science is nothing but an oxymoron.

    Faith is the slaughterer of freedom. If there is a concept more hateful to the hearts of the faithful flock than freedom, then it is unimaginable what it would be. Truly the flock pays due lip service to freedom, but their every endeavor is to control and outlaw it. To pass laws to prohibit sexual preferences in the bedroom of two adults is nothing but pure tyranny. Why do these people care who you're sleeping with? What business is it of there's? The faithful claim that they simply want to live life according to the rules of their god, but they want nothing short of making everyone live by those exact rules. Everywhere you find these faithful people you will see them attempting to control the other people around them. They even have the audacity to claim they are persecuted, simply because people resist them and rail against their bids for totalitarian control. The faithful claim they are patriots, but they resemble old Russian Communism much more closely than capitalism.

    Faith is the destructor of individuality. Everywhere the faithful are trying to enact their version of God's word into law and force the rest of society to be just like them. The faithful proudly claim the title of "Sheep". What more needs be said?

    Faith is the fountainhead of ignorance. The faithful everywhere cast off logic and science as the temptations of Satan. Any science, theory, or fact which contradicts their religion is perceived to be purely evil. This inevitably leads to the embracing of myths and ignorance and the shunning of rational thinking.

    Faith is the procreator of intolerance. Faith like nothing else strengthens intolerance and helps it breed and spread. What else would come about from people who claim as divinely inspired a book which espouses slavery, homophobia, murder, infanticide, genocide, racism, rape and kidnapping in the name of a loving god?

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    If you knew what faith really is, you'd know that all of what you said is...


    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  4. #3 Re: Faith, blind faith. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    Faith is the nemesis of logic. Faith is the destroyer of science and progress.
    Faith is the slaughterer of freedom.
    Faith is the destructor of individuality.
    Faith is the fountainhead of ignorance.
    Faith is the procreator of intolerance.
    you don't happen to be related to richard dawkins do you ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    If you knew what faith really is, you'd know that all of what you said is...
    true.
    I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong.
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    Very nicely presented, A+. I do think that some of the things you mentioned can be put down to human nature though, such as 'ignorance' and 'intolerance'
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    If you knew what faith really is, you'd know that all of what you said is...
    true.
    I was aiming for something of a negative connotation.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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    I get atheism, I really do, but what I don't get is the seething hatred of religion. Where does that come from?
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    I'ts because of the lie in the Garden of Eden. Eve wasn't able to liken
    herself unto a God. She had faith it would though ....


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    Faith is the nemesis of logic. Where there is religious faith, there can not be logic.
    I think you are wrong. It is two different concepts. You can have a perfectly logical discussion about religion.

    Faith is the destroyer of science and progress.
    Many great scientists believed in God.
    Faith is the slaughterer of freedom.
    I disagree. Western society practically invented the concept of personal freedom, and these were religious people. I include the founding fathers of the United States and also the English, who abolished the slave trade in the 19th century. The Quakers were among the first abolitionists and they were religious people.
    Faith is the destructor of individuality. Everywhere the faithful are trying to enact their version of God's word into law and force the rest of society to be just like them.
    What about the intolerant atheists bent upon banning any expression of religion in the public square, and demanding tax money from the religious to be spent often against their religious beliefs.
    Faith is the fountainhead of ignorance. The faithful everywhere cast off logic and science as the temptations of Satan. Any science, theory, or fact which contradicts their religion is perceived to be purely evil.
    A gross generalization.
    Faith is the procreator of intolerance. Faith like nothing else strengthens intolerance and helps it breed and spread. What else would come about from people who claim as divinely inspired a book which espouses slavery, homophobia, murder, infanticide, genocide, racism, rape and kidnapping in the name of a loving god?
    How do you know there is anything wrong with slavery, homophobia, murder, infanticide, genocide, racism, rape and kidnapping? It sounds like you are forcing your quasi-religious beliefs on the rest of us. Where do those beliefs come from?
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    Faith is the destroyer of science and progress.
    Many great scientists believed in God.

    I really hope your not going to tell us one of these scientists is Einstein or Galileo. In the case of the former, his concept of God was nearly Pantiestic, The god which is the universe and the sum of it's parts. The order itself. In the case of Galileo I'd suggest any apparently christian mentions were made to save his own neck, considering the threat of excommunication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Faith is the procreator of intolerance. Faith like nothing else strengthens intolerance and helps it breed and spread. What else would come about from people who claim as divinely inspired a book which espouses slavery, homophobia, murder, infanticide, genocide, racism, rape and kidnapping in the name of a loving god?
    How do you know there is anything wrong with slavery, homophobia, murder, infanticide, genocide, racism, rape and kidnapping? It sounds like you are forcing your quasi-religious beliefs on the rest of us. Where do those beliefs come from?
    Evolution disfavours murder, for the simple reason that if you are dead you cannot breed. If you kill other humans they can't breed and you are effectivley reducing the diversity of your own species. It might be possible that diversity may have been useful in doing things like stopping disease, surviving famine, or any other number of reasons that individual managed to exist in preference to others which may otherwise have done so. Racism is also related to this.

    Kidnapping is just stupid, people who are forced to do something against their will are less able to do things like breed properly. There is also the issue of the individual wishing to make their own decisions under free will and being prevented from doing so on the base fundamental level. This is also applicable to murder, as killing someone removes their ability to experience anything and to make decisions for themselves. Both of these acts violate individual choise, freedom, evolutionary selection for breeding, and induce fear in the subjected individual. perhaps the only crime here you can argue does not damage evolutionary requirements is rape, however as noted earlier, it can induce fear in the subjected individual and so it is wrong on the point of "It takes away free choise while also inconveniencing and psychologically damaging the subject of the rape, possibly leading to changed patterns of habit".

    From an overall Evolutionary standpoint, the object is to either remain in the same staus or improve. Removing free choice, reducing the gene pool artificially, and so on is a bad thing. Bad things are nearly universal, Although one might feel pleasure or benifit from doing something like raping another individual, or removing another individuals ability to make a choise and subjegating them to your own choises. If the reverse were applied and you were the one being subjegated, it is without doubt that said actions would cause fear. The fear is just as real if you are experiencing it or someone else is. One should see oneself as a part of a group, an entire species on earth. The universe doesn't care about your fear any more than it cares about Jane Roberts's fear, or John Yang. Every individual exists and is as real as any other. Also some things cause fear in a universal fasion. The removal of choise is the driving factor behind most fear. All animals desire to be able to continue to make their own decisions about how to eat, live, and procreate. And anything that removes that choise will cause fear and angst in the individual. Weather that is being forced to be somewhere they do not wish to be and unable to choose to leave (such as being kidnapped, or even just stuck in a landslide). or to be unable to choose who to procreate with (such as rape) which is an important part of Evolution. The choise of who to procreate with is driven by attraction, and in the end decides which Genes are matched whith which Genes to create a new individual. Racism can influence the process of attraction and remove certain possibilities like mixed race and the possible benifits of differing immunities. Racism can also lead to a wish of one group to remove the choises of another group. such as "Black People can't ride on the bus" or "White people can't own farmland", or "We want to hang that black man from a tree by the neck while we burn a cross in his yard".

    So my belief is "Removal of choise is bad as it induces fear." A christian might call it "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself". It is somewhat of a parallel. We put it into law because some people can't figure out what their own responses would be in some situations. Others just don't care.

    Notice: Law and Law enforcement is not a removal of choise. Just a changing of the concequences. You are still free to break the law, but if a law enforcer sees you doing so, a concequence might be the removal of your own choises. ie: where you want to sleep and be for the next week or year or decade. Your home? The Street? Jail?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    You can have a perfectly logical discussion about religion.
    ... provided you accept or recognise the basic premises of that religion - if not, then you don't even use the same language even if you employ the same words
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicalaviator
    Evolution disfavours murder, for the simple reason that if you are dead you cannot breed.
    not true - lions kill the cubs of another lion when they take over a pride, thereby ensuring that the lioness becomes receptive again to conceive their own

    whatever the moral demerits of murder may be, it is an unfortunate fact of nature that more often than not it advances the genes of the murderer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    I get atheism, I really do, but what I don't get is the seething hatred of religion. Where does that come from?
    why is it, that the religious can be intolerant, of everything, but when someone starts a debate, which is slightly negative towards religion, it's called hatred.
    man kills man, theirs no doubt there, but it's done more for religion than for any other reason. religion breeds hatred, the my god is bigger than your god mentality. all religions are myths, there is no after life, when man realises this he'll have more respect for life.

    "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things—that takes religion." Stephen Weinberg physicist

    theres no hatred here, it's more likely fear, you never know what an irrational person will do, and four fiths of the worlds population are suffering from this irrational religious afliction. I want my children to live a full life without fear of some nut job, blowing them up, or killing them because they worked in an abortion clinic.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    I get atheism, I really do, but what I don't get is the seething hatred of religion. Where does that come from?
    why is it, that the religious can be intolerant, of everything, but when someone starts a debate, which is slightly negative towards religion, it's called hatred.
    man kills man, theirs no doubt there, but it's done more for religion than for any other reason. religion breeds hatred, the my god is bigger than your god mentality. all religions are myths, there is no after life, when man realises this he'll have more respect for life.

    "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things—that takes religion." Stephen Weinberg physicist

    theres no hatred here, it's more likely fear, you never know what an irrational person will do, and four fiths of the worlds population are suffering from this irrational religious afliction. I want my children to live a full life without fear of some nut job, blowing them up, or killing them because they worked in an abortion clinic.
    Religion isn't intolerant. A strong warning that you will burn your hand if you put it in the flame: is not intolerance. Live and let live. People make choices. Just because Christian's make a choice not to partake in things that non-believers partake in, doesn't make religion intolerant. It's all about choices ....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Religion isn't intolerant.
    this is starting to sound like some of the posts in many of the islam related threads :wink:
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    why is it, that the religious can be intolerant, of everything, but when someone starts a debate, which is slightly negative towards religion, it's called hatred.
    man kills man, theirs no doubt there, but it's done more for religion than for any other reason. religion breeds hatred, the my god is bigger than your god mentality. all religions are myths, there is no after life, when man realises this he'll have more respect for life.

    "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things—that takes religion." Stephen Weinberg physicist

    theres no hatred here, it's more likely fear, you never know what an irrational person will do, and four fiths of the worlds population are suffering from this irrational religious afliction. I want my children to live a full life without fear of some nut job, blowing them up, or killing them because they worked in an abortion clinic.
    Religion isn't intolerant. A strong warning that you will burn your hand if you put it in the flame: is not intolerance. Live and let live. People make choices. Just because Christian's make a choice not to partake in things that non-believers partake in, doesn't make religion intolerant. It's all about choices ....
    does religion, not yours particularly tolerate gay marriages, does religion tolerate, different religious groups, does religion tolerate, people changing faiths, etc...etc....
    we can safely say that religion doesn't tolerate much.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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    Religious hatred does not come from religion. It comes from within a person. The knowledge, and resentment that one is not the way that God or anyone else supposes they should be. You can only tolerate people who are willing to accept and tolerate themselves. I have worked along side, and know gays. My only concern for them is: I accept them for who they are: they need to accept themselves for who they are. Everyone is entitled to their own personal feelings about various topics and woes in society. I just think part of the gay movement gets lost in the histrionics. If two people are in love, then so be it. It is a perception that they live with, and others just merely accept. But you can't say that I am intolerant of them: because I might not invite them to my house every weekend. We are entitled to live our lives in ways that we choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Religious hatred does not come from religion. .
    lol, oh, give me a break, look at what your writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Live and let live
    I wish all the religions would.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    why is it, that the religious can be intolerant, of everything, but when someone starts a debate, which is slightly negative towards religion, it's called hatred.
    man kills man, theirs no doubt there, but it's done more for religion than for any other reason. religion breeds hatred, the my god is bigger than your god mentality. all religions are myths, there is no after life, when man realises this he'll have more respect for life.

    "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things—that takes religion." Stephen Weinberg physicist

    theres no hatred here, it's more likely fear, you never know what an irrational person will do, and four fiths of the worlds population are suffering from this irrational religious afliction. I want my children to live a full life without fear of some nut job, blowing them up, or killing them because they worked in an abortion clinic.
    Religion isn't intolerant. A strong warning that you will burn your hand if you put it in the flame: is not intolerance. Live and let live. People make choices. Just because Christian's make a choice not to partake in things that non-believers partake in, doesn't make religion intolerant. It's all about choices ....
    does religion, not yours particularly tolerate gay marriages, does religion tolerate, different religious groups, does religion tolerate, people changing faiths, etc...etc....
    we can safely say that religion doesn't tolerate much.
    People are intolerant of gays, not religion. There are MANY irreligious people who hate gays, but this does not say non-religion is intolerant of gays, just like religious people's intolerance doesn't make religion intolerant. Religion does tolerate other religious groups. Yes, religion does tolerate changing faiths. The only one that doesn't tolerate changing faiths, that I know of, is Islam. Aside from that, whether your conversion will be tolerated is relative to your family. An atheist family can be intolerant of one of its members embracing Christianity.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Religious hatred does not come from religion. .
    lol, oh, give me a break, look at what your writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Live and let live
    I wish all the religions would.
    The idea of religious hatred would always be prompted by some man-made offense. Any Gospel in the world preaches the doctrine of love and unity. It's individuals; who show up trying to force their ideas on a group: that cause problems. If a leader mocks a member of his team for no apparent reason, then the other members of the team begin to wonder what's wrong with the leader. A situation like that breeds hatred, not religion. A small situation evolves into a a whole new society of people, who will not put up with what the leader was trying to exhibit.

    For a breath of air in the confusion. If people would stop and look at this type of negative influence, and realize that it's of satan, and not God, then people would understand where the problems arose.



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    Many great scientists believed in God.

    I really hope your not going to tell us one of these scientists is Einstein or Galileo. In the case of the former, his concept of God was nearly Pantiestic, The god which is the universe and the sum of it's parts. The order itself. In the case of Galileo I'd suggest any apparently christian mentions were made to save his own neck, considering the threat of excommunication.
    I don't know about Galileo, but Einstein could be classified as a sort of creationist. I don't think his beliefs would escape Susan's scorn. Mendel was a monk and did his research in the monastery garden. Newton was religious. I could probably come up with a lot more but that should be enough to make the point.
    why is it, that the religious can be intolerant, of everything, but when someone starts a debate, which is slightly negative towards religion, it's called hatred....I want my children to live a full life without fear of some nut job, blowing them up, or killing them because they worked in an abortion clinic.
    There's a few religious extremists out there. No reason to condemn all religious people. When someone starts a thread to bash religion, and there are already 3 or 4 religion bashing threads active, I think that person has some issues.
    Evolution disfavours murder....
    If evolution is the source of your moral code, you could easily justify every one of the evils Susan blames on religion. Slavery: If I enslave someone it could increase my wealth and allow me to take better care of my offspring improving the status of my genes in the gene pool. Homophobia: I will discourage my children from homosexual behavior so that they are more likely to give me grandchildren. I will discourage it within my clan because homosexuals consume resources and spread disease without reproducing. Murder: see below. Infanticide: This child is defective, consumes resources, and will not effectively spread my genes. Genocide: I will destroy persons with dissimilar genetic makeup and who compete for territory. Racism: same as genocide. Rape: I will attempt to impregnate a woman who is not my wife and therefore I will spread my genes without having any drain on my wealth resources. Kidnapping: may be for enslavement or for ransom which will increase my wealth allowing me to support my children and improve their survival chances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    People are intolerant of gays, not religion. There are MANY irreligious people who hate gays, but this does not say non-religion is intolerant of gays, just like religious people's intolerance doesn't make religion intolerant.
    utter complete rubbish, yes there are people, without religion that dont like gays, however the holy book of religions instigate this intolerence, KJV lev 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." therefore the religion itself is intolerant
    I'm open to talking sense when you want to start.
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    Religion does tolerate other religious groups. Yes, religion does tolerate changing faiths. The only one that doesn't tolerate changing faiths, that I know of, is Islam.
    so this religion is intolerant, oh I see, lol.
    your religion allows it now, to a degree, but will still fight wars to convert the heathen hordes.
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    Aside from that, whether your conversion will be tolerated is relative to your family.
    exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    An atheist family can be intolerant of one of its members embracing Christianity.
    completely and utterly wrong.
    atheist families allow the children to choose there own path, from the outset, there is no intolerence if the child chooses a religious path.
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    Quote Originally Posted by everlasting
    the idea of religious hatred would always be prompted by some man-made offense. Any Gospel in the world preaches the doctrine of love and unity.
    you need to sit down and reread, your holy book and others, try reading the qu'ran, or the vedas etc..
    Quote Originally Posted by everlasting
    It's individuals; who show up trying to force their ideas on a group: that cause problems.
    but the holy book he's reading from instigated the problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by everlasting
    If a leader mocks a member of his team for no apparent reason, then the other members of the team begin to wonder what's wrong with the leader. A situation like that breeds hatred, not religion. A small situation evolves into a a whole new society of people, who will not put up with what the leader was trying to exhibit.
    hence why there are so many different religions in the world, so many different gods, and particularly why there are 34,000 different sect of christianity.
    Quote Originally Posted by everlasting
    For a breath of air in the confusion. If people would stop and look at this type of negative influence, and realize that it's of satan, and not God, then people would understand where the problems arose.
    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    Isn't this an example of what the Gospel proclaims. If at any time you admonish someone as God like, then you admonish God. How then can you have tolerance, and sympathy for what you call a scapegoat?

    And please tell the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?


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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    let's make one thing clear : it is in the nature of religion to believe that its own creed is right at the exclusion of everything else

    while this is not in itself an incitement to hatred and intolerance, it makes it easier to view "unbelievers" as somehow less than human

    portraying the "enemy" as less than human has always been the first step in initiating or condoning genocide, whether based on religion or not

    hence the rightousness inherent in any religion has often led to missionary zeal for converting the unbeliever or , failing that, eliminating him
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    And please tell the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?
    i'm sure the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has something to say about that :wink:
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    I don't know about Galileo, but Einstein could be classified as a sort of creationist. I don't think his beliefs would escape Susan's scorn.
    probably because Einstein, had none.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Mendel was a monk and did his research in the monastery garden. Newton was religious. I could probably come up with a lot more but that should be enough to make the point.
    yes many people in the past incorporated science with religion they new no better, but your point fails because, because it isn't refering to the scientist, but science per'se, if it wasn't for religion, the dark ages in particular, we would probably be far more advanced than we are now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    There's a few religious extremists out there. No reason to condemn all religious people. When someone starts a thread to bash religion, and there are already 3 or 4 religion bashing threads active, I think that person has some issues.
    could you point out these other threads, thank you.
    this is not bashing but pointing out that faith is not a good thing, tis all.
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    marnixR wrote
    let's make one thing clear : it is in the nature of religion to believe that its own creed is right at the exclusion of everything else
    No, it's the nature of people. Where is the evidence that atheists do not hold beliefs (moral, political, etc.) or hold them less strongly? Where is the atheist utopia where everybody lives side by side in peace? The soviet union was officially an atheist state. They were so tolerant they outlawed all other political parties. Communist China allows religion but it is strictly regulated. Don't get caught smuggling a bible in there.

    Susan wrote
    if it wasn't for religion, the dark ages in particular, we would probably be far more advanced than we are now.
    You believe this without offering any evidence. What you accuse others of doing.
    could you point out these other threads, thank you.
    Come on, just click on religion and scroll down. Geezer started one comparing religion to belief in the tooth fairy. Charles Brough started one about the evils of Christianity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    Isn't this an example of what the Gospel proclaims. If at any time you admonish someone as God like, then you admonish God. How then can you have tolerance, and sympathy for what you call a scapegoat?

    And please tell me the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?


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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    People are intolerant of gays, not religion. There are MANY irreligious people who hate gays, but this does not say non-religion is intolerant of gays, just like religious people's intolerance doesn't make religion intolerant.
    utter complete rubbish, yes there are people, without religion that dont like gays, however the holy book of religions instigate this intolerence, KJV lev 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." therefore the religion itself is intolerant
    I'm open to talking sense when you want to start.
    Did you know that there are many Christians who accept gays? They interpret the bible as allowing it. I don't believe the bible allows it (though I do believe in giving gays their rights, as the bible also makes it clear that people have freedom of choice), but that's just my belief. Like I said, it all depends on the person.
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    Religion does tolerate other religious groups. Yes, religion does tolerate changing faiths. The only one that doesn't tolerate changing faiths, that I know of, is Islam.
    so this religion is intolerant, oh I see, lol.
    Intolerant of conversion. Though I did hear some Muslims say that their religion is tolerant of conversion.
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    your religion allows it now, to a degree, but will still fight wars to convert the heathen hordes.
    This one made me laugh. Which century do you live in?
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    Aside from that, whether your conversion will be tolerated is relative to your family.
    exactly.
    Exactly. Family, not religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by spt
    An atheist family can be intolerant of one of its members embracing Christianity.
    completely and utterly wrong.
    atheist families allow the children to choose there own path, from the outset, there is no intolerence if the child chooses a religious path.
    This one made me laugh as well. You really need to wake up and realize that atheists aren't perfect beings who are tolerant of every belief and allow free choice. I know several atheists who would practically kill their kin if they were to convert: both online and around me.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    marnixR wrote
    let's make one thing clear : it is in the nature of religion to believe that its own creed is right at the exclusion of everything else
    No, it's the nature of people.
    you're probably right that it's in the nature of people to think that only they have all the right answers to life, the universe and everything - however, religion institutionalises this feeling to the point where it's no longer enough to let others think their own thoughts, but you have to convert them to the orthodox view of the religion in question with whatever means at hand - it's hardly the encouragement our innate self-righteousness needs
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Susan wrote
    if it wasn't for religion, the dark ages in particular, we would probably be far more advanced than we are now.
    You believe this without offering any evidence. What you accuse others of doing.
    please note the use of the word "probably" meaning I'm not sure, so no evidence need be put forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    could you point out these other threads, thank you.
    Come on, just click on religion and scroll down. Geezer started one comparing religion to belief in the tooth fairy. Charles Brough started one about the evils of Christianity.
    so these are these are the offending articles are they. ok I will come back to you on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    Isn't this an example of what the Gospel proclaims. If at any time you admonish someone as God like, then you admonish God. How then can you have tolerance, and sympathy for what you call a scapegoat?

    And please tell the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?

    I'm just quoting your bible to get my point across, the above picture shows the amount of murders caused directlly by the god of the said book, this is not taking in to account the flood, just all the murders directly caused by this god, the bottom one is the satan creature from the same book, the figure beside it's name is 10, and those were shared with the god, (Job and his family,) yet the satan creature is the most reviled and hated, by christians. the satan creature obviously got the bad press.

    so the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat is to make the other party look good
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    so these are these are the offending articles are they. ok I will come back to you on that.
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended. Just a little surprised at the outrage being expressed by you and others on this site, and elsewhere too.

    please note the use of the word "probably" meaning I not sure, so no evidence need be put forward.
    You seemed pretty sure in the original post.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    ... the satan creature obviously got the bad press.
    is he the one selling apples ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    Isn't this an example of what the Gospel proclaims. If at any time you admonish someone as God like, then you admonish God. How then can you have tolerance, and sympathy for what you call a scapegoat?

    And please tell the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?
    so the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat is to make the other party look good
    Now there is indignation when God protected His people. As most people try to proclaim: Where is your God now? Any protection that God afforded to His people was based on a power structure of evil, slavery, and persecution. An eye for an eye. This is why God doesn't intervene now. People should know right from wrong. The world has admitted that they have erred in the treatment of people, who are different from them. By admitting that God did these things, it proves that you have A knowledge of God, and that it is faith/belief and not superstition.


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    Quote Originally Posted by harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    so these are these are the offending articles are they. ok I will come back to you on that.
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended. Just a little surprised at the outrage being expressed by you and others on this site, and elsewhere too.
    what outrage, infact what rage. just showing you my side of the coin, your the one making assumptions, it's something more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    please note the use of the word "probably" meaning I not sure, so no evidence need be put forward.
    You seemed pretty sure in the original post.
    obviously you misconstrued the post, else why would I put "probably", it would have been "certainly" or "definitely" surely


    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    ... the satan creature obviously got the bad press.
    is he the one selling apples ?
    yes, and pears.


    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    Quote Originally Posted by susan
    Quote Originally Posted by Everlasting
    and where is satan written. could it be the same books that instigates the intolerance, isn't satan just a scapegoat.
    Isn't this an example of what the Gospel proclaims. If at any time you admonish someone as God like, then you admonish God. How then can you have tolerance, and sympathy for what you call a scapegoat?

    And please tell the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat?
    I'm just quoting your bible to get my point across, the above picture shows the amount of murders caused directlly by the god of the said book, this is not taking in to account the flood, just all the murders directly caused by this god, the bottom one is the satan creature from the same book, the figure beside it's name is 10, and those were shared with the god, (Job and his family,) yet the satan creature is the most reviled and hated, by christians. the satan creature obviously got the bad press.

    so the cosmic importance and signifcance of a scapegoat is to make the other party look good
    Now there is indignation when God protected His people. As most people try to proclaim: Where is your God now? Any protection that God afforded to His people was based on a power structure of evil, slavery, and persecution. An eye for an eye. This is why God doesn't intervene now. People should know right from wrong. The world has admitted that they have erred in the treatment of people, who are different from them. By admitting that God did these things, it proves that you have A knowledge of God, and that it is faith/belief and not superstition.
    yes I have the knowledge of the fiction character I read about in your bible, I also read about dragons and unicorns, satyrs, cocktriches, and talking donkeys/serpents do I now have a belief in those to, or am I being superstitious, give me a break!.
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