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Thread: Male Chauvinism reason for relgion?

  1. #1 Male Chauvinism reason for relgion? 
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    How is that all three Abrahamic religious extremes degrade women? Examples: Islam - Taliban And Saudi Arabia, Christianity - No women priests in Catholic church, Judaism - Orthodox has no women rabbis.


    I am not familiar with other religions, but I would not be surprised by similar situations.


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    It's not just religion, institutional sexism is present everywhere. The sad fact is that most cultures have historically downplayed the role of women in all walks of life, it's just that religions are behind the curve in changing with the times and are more dogmatic about it. Now the paradigm is slowly shifting in the right direction in most areas. Hopefully in the near future gender should be irrelevant to the role a person plays in society, but I'm willing to bet patriarchal religions will be the last hold outs...


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    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59010156

    "London has twice as many statues of animals as named women"

    QED?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    I am not familiar with other religions, but I would not be surprised by similar situations.
    It would seem that suppressing women is more universal than just religion. While you are correct in questioning religious aspects since one would think that they, above all other human pursuits, should be more interested in equality in all things. But these Abrahamic religions all have the same thing in common. Their deities are also male only. And as a god, a Super Male at that. One which women must subjugate their lives to. A good reason for men to be big supporters of these religions, and also the "teachers" of the male dominated dogma.

    But from a more universal perspective, many things on the social spectrum seem to elevate men over women. Sports is one of the most obvious. Men's sports draw much more interest than any for women, with mud wrestling being a likely exception.

    Many women get paid a lot less than men, and this for the same jobs. Was reading about a woman, full professor at a university in New Jersey who gets 30% less pay compared to her equivalent male colleagues, and this for several decades, and through many raises. Clearly a double standard since she is towing exactly the same weight they are.

    Females certainly dominate in some species, but they are rare. Just found a BBC article* that indicates that for most of the 5,000 mammals considered, nearly all were male dominated. Based on this article, the exceptions are hyenas, killer whales, lions, bonobos, lemurs, and elephants. A pretty short list. With so few outliers, it would seem it is a genetic trait, at least with mammals. So at least men can claim that it is all biological and that's the way it is!

    Of course for those of us who prefer a level playing field, equal rights should be universal for a species of high intellect. Maybe we are not as smart as we think, and are more like all the animals with instinct-driven tendencies.



    "What animals tell us about female leadership"


    * https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...re-chilled-out
    Last edited by Double Helix; October 22nd, 2021 at 06:50 PM.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    How is that all three Abrahamic religious extremes degrade women?
    Might have to go a long way back for this, and Hinduism which is the basis for the Abrahamic religions.
    Hinduism invented the idea of one god (Brahma) yet divided into many.
    One of these gods came down (Krishna, the Christ, Our Lord etc.).

    So why do we refer to the Abrahamic god as a HE and never a SHE?

    For this we can identify the Hindu goddess Kali, the destroyer of worlds.
    Whenever there was a cataclysm, Kali was to blame.

    Kali, (Sanskrit: “She Who Is Black” or “She Who Is Death”) in Hinduism, goddess of time, doomsday, and death, or the black goddess .

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    I guess the scribes and those who interpret/translate Hebrew were not gender neutral or non-binary. How long before Abrahamic religion edits their Bibles so that God becomes It? I'm amazed women in these religions don't squawk about emphasis on It's male gender. However a roll in the hay with Mary might indicate maleness, so how could that be rewritten to everyone's satisfaction?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    How is that all three Abrahamic religious extremes degrade women?
    Might have to go a long way back for this, and Hinduism which is the basis for the Abrahamic religions.
    Hinduism invented the idea of one god (Brahma) yet divided into many.
    One of these gods came down (Krishna, the Christ, Our Lord etc.).

    So why do we refer to the Abrahamic god as a HE and never a SHE?

    For this we can identify the Hindu goddess Kali, the destroyer of worlds.
    Whenever there was a cataclysm, Kali was to blame.

    Kali, (Sanskrit: “She Who Is Black” or “She Who Is Death”) in Hinduism, goddess of time, doomsday, and death, or the black goddess .

    Where did the idea that Hindu religion was the forerunner of ancient Hebrew religion. Much more likely were the Accadian or Egyptian ideas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Where did the idea that Hindu religion was the forerunner of ancient Hebrew religion. Much more likely were the Accadian or Egyptian ideas.
    Most likely Hindu ideas about gods were spread along trading routes and Hebrew texts were influenced.

    Bible Myths by Thomas Doane is a good but lengthy analysis of comparative religion and is available as a download.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Where did the idea that Hindu religion was the forerunner of ancient Hebrew religion. Much more likely were the Accadian or Egyptian ideas.
    Most likely Hindu ideas about gods were spread along trading routes and Hebrew texts were influenced.

    Bible Myths by Thomas Doane is a good but lengthy analysis of comparative religion and is available as a download.
    Bok is quite old. What has been reaction of scholars since?
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    The book is based on the writing of hundreds of authors.
    Doane must have decided there were far too many similarities between Abrahamic religion, the earlier Hinduism and Buddhism for it to be coincidence.
    It was originally published anonymously for fear of upsetting too many Christians in America.

    Scholars don't want to comment on this book. It could ruin their careers.
    It's too big a dangerous idea, that Christianity is based on stories found in earlier religions.
    Read it and draw you own conclusions.
    I've never found any fault with it, other than perhaps it's not quite long enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    It's too big a dangerous idea, that Christianity is based on stories found in earlier religions.

    Polytheism was a major format for numerous religions for a long time, in many cultures. It seems to have gotten whittled down to "monothism" in the latest Abrahamic versions, except even then you have the three "deities" in Christianity: The father, son and holy spirit. All are gods, but from only one god, or so it seems. A unique means by which polytheism can be resurrected, so to say, into monothism, or so it would seem. It is all mysterious to me. Probably supposed to be.

    Ancient Egyptian religion seems most interesting, with all the cool gods they had. Except the heretic Akhenaten. He upset the apple cart for a while, claiming to be the son of Aten, and cast off all the other gods. He had a lot of nerve messing around with their long established polytheism. Some Christians might appreciate him for that, claiming to be the son of the one god, Aten. Sadly, unlike Akhenaten, the Christians seem to hanging in there with their form of one god, and a son, and the holy spirit. But again, this Holy Trinity does have the flavor of polytheism.

    Does Doane cover ancient Egyptian polytheism and its possible impact on the evolution of Abrahamic religions?
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    Does Doane cover ancient Egyptian polytheism and its possible impact on the evolution of Abrahamic religions?
    He does mention that the earlier Egyptian trinity of Osiris, Isis and Horus appears to be the equivalent of the Christian trinity.
    The Jews were enslaved in Egypt according to tradition, although no proof of it exists.
    Horus was the incarnation and so is the equivalent of Christ.
    I'm not sure where the idea of Holy Ghost/Spirit came from. It could be based on an hallucinogenic experience.
    Osiris was the male and Isis the female element. This suggests the Christians did not believe in a female deity.
    One God divided into three.
    The Catholic church only recently elevated Mary to be the 4th member of the trinity.
    Confused? I think so.

    Doane also mentions the Roman gods were replaced by the Christian saints.
    Roman temples were converted into churches. Venus's pigeon became the dove of the Holy Ghost, and so on.
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