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Thread: And baby makes three...

  1. #1 And baby makes three... 
    Forum Freshman pseudoscientist's Avatar
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    I have a feeling I'm going to forget this forum soon enough, so before I do, I'm going to take the time to rant about a few things that have been bugging me. Itl'l be a bit incoherent, and I can attest to you that my night grammar is horrible.

    1. In spite of your terribly sheltered view, the word "religion" doesn't necessarily mean "Christianity." Please realize that or DIE a horrible death. Just because you happen to be familiar with Christianity (and now perhaps Islam) doesn't mean you can make generalized statements about religion as a whole. Or maybe you can, but don't expect to be right. Buddhism, among other things, is very different from Christianity. and those generalized statements sadly are not applicable here.

    2. Contrary to popular belief, religion was not invented to explain things. Instead, it is really a way of life. Of course you can now point out what wikipedia or the dictionary says, but arguing definition is always useless; it's the concept that matters. There are religions that don't have any deities, there are religions that don't care about afterlife, there are religions that are more concerned with living a good life rather than how the world began. Once again, stop making Christianity the epitome of all religions. You short-sighted bastards.

    Quote Originally Posted by myself
    [religion] is really a way of life
    Case in point: Although a belief in the Trinity God is essential in Christianity (I decided on this particular religion because it's the only one we all know oh-so very well), what Christianity really does is tell people how to live: love God, love your neighbors, do what Jesus would do, etc. Christianity (which is a religion) is a way of life because it requires you to do certain things regularly. Christianity encourages Christians to live by the rules found in the Bible. Do something that deviates from the Bible and you're suddenly not a "real" Christian. Of course individual interpretations of the Bible will vary, but that's beside the point.

    Aside from that, have you ever heard someone say, "I'm more Christian than a real Christian"? Now what the hell is that supposed to mean? If we go by the Christian definition, you can't be a Christian unless you accept Jesus as your savior (and therefore the Son of God). Yet if someone can say something like that, maybe it's because Christians are expected to project certain behavior? Another proof that Christianity, on the holistic level, is a way of life rather than a belief in the Trinity God and all that?

    Therefore, stop accusing Christianity (among other things) of being anti-science. The Bible is not meant to be a science textbook; it is meant to provide a set of moral values based on an almighty God. If some Christians decide to take the Bible to a whole new level and claim that their God created the universe in six days, then they're screwed. Take it or leave it.

    3. That being said, quit making a comparison between religion and science. The two cover two very different aspects of life. If you keep saying something like, "I pick science over religion," then you're just being an idiot. Just because you have eaten the apple doesn't mean you can't have the orange, too.

    4. Science isn't the only key to understanding the way the world works. God damn, it pisses me off when people dismiss something because "it's not science." There are plenty of things that science can't explain, but just because it's not science doesn't mean it doesn't exist. What some people don't seem to realize is that science--like religion--requires its people to follow certain procedures and rules (that it has set up itself) for best results. Science is like a spoiled child who wants to have everything his way. When he meets someone who doesn't want to play his game, he kicks and scream and tells his minions to keep his enemy away from him.

    Well that's just too bad cause any grown-up would tell you that it's not how the real world works.

    5. Oh, and don't say you "believe in science." That's just stupid.




    That's all for now. Ta-ta, folks. And quit passing judgments on things you have absolutely no understanding of.


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Damn, I came here looking for an argument, or at least a fight, and I find myself agreeing with you pretty much from top to bottom. Ah, well.

    Given such insightful understanding of religion, or more pertinently your understanding of many peoples misunderstanding of religion, I do hope you won't soon 'forget this forum'.


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  4. #3 Re: And baby makes three... 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Ah what to say......

    Of course I agree with most of the things you say......

    But in defense of those whom you are implicitly attacking, let me point out that some Christians, particularly in the United States, are really some of the most obnoxious anti-scientific people imaginable. Furthermore there are plenty of other religions that are equally hostile to science or have ways of thinking about the world that are so alien to the scientific way of looking at the world that it is often easy to make generalizations that do not look favorably upon religion in general.

    The fact that you and I are comfortable eating both "apples" and "oranges" and see stupidity of demanding people choose between them, does not substantially alter the "demographics". The fact of the matter is, that we have learned to accept the fact that some apples are bruised and some oranges are dry and tasteless, and have made the effort to learn the skill of choosing better examples of each.

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    Science is like a spoiled child who wants to have everything his way. When he meets someone who doesn't want to play his game, he kicks and scream and tells his minions to keep his enemy away from him.
    Huh??? If you are going play chess then play by the rules or it is pointless. It is not childish to expect people to be true to the rules of what they say that they are doing. It is childish to think you can ignore the rules just because you are not getting what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    Well that's just too bad cause any grown-up would tell you that it's not how the real world works.
    The "real" world is what we make of it. It may be full of childish people, but that doesn't mean we cannot insist on them growing up and learning to participate properly in more organized activities like chess and science. Anyone with a love for chess and/or science is going to do what they can to defend them in this manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    5. Oh, and don't say you "believe in science." That's just stupid.
    Why? You and I both happen to like both "apples" and "oranges". Why cannot someone decide they only like "apples"? It is a matter of choice. Isn't it? Why is it just stupid???
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I took the phrase 'to believe in science' to mean taking a blind, faith based approach to the pronouncements of science. It was that sentiment I was agreeing with (amongst others).
    If pseudoscientist meant that it was silly to believe in the scientific method then I would disagree completely.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I took the phrase 'to believe in science' to mean taking a blind, faith based approach to the pronouncements of science. It was that sentiment I was agreeing with (amongst others).
    If pseudoscientist meant that it was silly to believe in the scientific method then I would disagree completely.
    It just goes to show how very ambiguous his number 5 was. I did not take it to mean that believing in the scientific method was silly. I thought he was saying that it was stupid to embrace an exclusively scientific world view and thereby exclude the validity of a religious world view. That is not my particular choice but I don't see why such a choice should be called stupid.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  7. #6  
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    who are you talking to? it sounds like you have the same animosity towards people that have animosity towards religion (if im following u here) and y'all are both taking it out with insults and cursing. in my opinion, you aren't going to listen to them and they aren't going to listen to you.
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  8. #7 Re: And baby makes three... 
    Forum Junior Kolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudoscientist
    4. Science isn't the only key to understanding the way the world works. God damn, it pisses me off when people dismiss something because "it's not science." There are plenty of things that science can't explain, but just because it's not science doesn't mean it doesn't exist. What some people don't seem to realize is that science--like religion--requires its people to follow certain procedures and rules (that it has set up itself) for best results. Science is like a spoiled child who wants to have everything his way. When he meets someone who doesn't want to play his game, he kicks and scream and tells his minions to keep his enemy away from him.

    Well that's just too bad cause any grown-up would tell you that it's not how the real world works.

    Science? or Scientist? (As in paticular individuals). Don't hate the game - hate the player. And don't go crapping on a spacific methodology just because its often misrepresented by a few bad apples.

    Spoiled? I think you've got it backwards little boy. Science is the epitome of all things disciplinary. In theory, the reasoning of a scientist is not determined by his/her inner feelings, needs or wants but is dertermined by the physical realities of the outside world. Science is all about humility. The humility of building something from a theory only to watch it all come crashing down. Science is about work - Hard work. ......thats what a grown up will tell you.

    Science can't explain everything? Wrong. Science "can" explain everything. Scientist however, cannot.

    Science is a flawless tool but is still just a tool none the less. A human being, on the other hand, is inherently flawed. To say that there is an effect out there that cannot be explained by science is to say that there is an effect out there that has no cause.

    I don't care what mystical god you are or whatever ethereal plane you come from. - "Cause and Effect" - Everybody and everything leaves a trail. Don't ever forget that.
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