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Thread: Interesting musing by Einstein wrtiting to a young girl

  1. #1 Interesting musing by Einstein wrtiting to a young girl 
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    “Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man.”

    January 19, 1936
    My dear Dr. Einstein,
    We have brought up the question: Do scientists pray? in our Sunday school class. It began by asking whether we could believe in both science and religion. We are writing to scientists and other important men, to try and have our own question answered.
    We will feel greatly honored if you will answer our question: Do scientists pray, and what do they pray for?
    We are in the sixth grade, Miss Ellis’s class.
    Respectfully yours,
    Phyllis


    January 24, 1936
    Dear Phyllis,
    I will attempt to reply to your question as simply as I can. Here is my answer:
    Scientists believe that every occurrence, including the affairs of human beings, is due to the laws of nature. Therefore a scientist cannot be inclined to believe that the course of events can be influenced by prayer, that is, by a supernaturally manifested wish.
    However, we must concede that our actual knowledge of these forces is imperfect, so that in the end the belief in the existence of a final, ultimate spirit rests on a kind of faith. Such belief remains widespread even with the current achievements in science.
    But also, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is surely quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.
    With cordial greetings,
    your A. Einstein


    I find this interesting, To a certain extent I like that Mr Einstein answered the girl, and I don't disagree with his answer, but I did think it a bit condescending with the difference from the naivity thing.

    I have also come across a discussion of Einstein with Tagore. Will post later - whoah that was some discussion!


     

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  3. #2  
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    It's my understanding that Einstein's views on a greater power or some underlying will of the universe fluctuated throughout his life, with him believing in G-d at a young age, switching to an extremely abstract conception of G-d later, then bouncing back and forth a couple times between a vague force/will of the universe and agnosticism/atheism. But I could be wrong.


    Last edited by SowZ37; July 7th, 2014 at 06:52 PM.
     

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    It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
    A. Einstein
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
    A. Einstein
    Yes, I've heard that. But he was a practicing Jew as a young teenager, wasn't he? I'm not sure it lasted long, but I read a biography where he practiced as a child. And note his use of the word personal G-d. Other writings and quotes from other points in his life suggest some belief in a vague universal will.
     

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    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    But he was a practicing Jew as a young teenager, wasn't he?
    His parents were jewish and made an attempt to raise him as jewish, but he was never a practicing jew.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

  7. #6  
    not ADM!N grmpysmrf's Avatar
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    Look at that man's Prose!! Jesus, 6th graders must have been a lot smarter back then!!
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Einstein
    ...supernaturally manifested wish.

    and other such 14 dollar words and phrases for a 6th grader.


    as a side note, could you Imagine Dywyddyr writing poor little Phyllis back?
    I think after she got done looking up all of the words in the letter her face would look like this,
    , even still today were she still alive.

    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
    President Dwight Eisenhower
     

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    I may have said this before at another site. Me and my older (he was in grade 5 or 6, I was in 2 or 3) brother wanted to go to church but also wanted money to put in the plate to be nice. He inquired as to the reason, but we were just intending to participate for the sake of participating. So he gave us so money and we left.

    When we got there and sat down and Mass started, I didn't take too long for us to get horrendously bored. So we left and spent the money on snacks.
     

  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I may have said this before at another site. Me and my older (he was in grade 5 or 6, I was in 2 or 3) brother wanted to go to church but also wanted money to put in the plate to be nice. He inquired as to the reason, but we were just intending to participate for the sake of participating. So he gave us so money and we left.

    When we got there and sat down and Mass started, I didn't take too long for us to get horrendously bored. So we left and spent the money on snacks.
    What is the relevance of this unremarkable little anecdote?
     

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    Here is Einstein talking with Tagore. Call your own shots on this one.

    TAGORE: You have been busy, hunting down with mathematics, the two ancient entities, time and space, while I have been lecturing in this country on the eternal world of man, the universe of reality.
    EINSTEIN: Do you believe in the divine isolated from the world?
    TAGORE: Not isolated. The infinite personality of man comprehends the universe. There cannot be anything that cannot be subsumed by the human personality, and this proves that the truth of the universe is human truth.
    EINSTEIN: There are two different conceptions about the nature of the universe - the world as a unity dependent on humanity, and the world as reality independent of the human factor.
    TAGORE: When our universe is in harmony with man, the eternal, we know it as truth, we feel it as beauty.
    EINSTEIN: This is a purely human conception of the universe.
    TAGORE: ThE world is a human world - the scientific view of it is also that of the scientific man. Therefore, the world apart from us does not exist; it is a relative world, depending for its reality upon our consciousness. There is some standard of reason and enjoyment which gives it truth, the standard of the eternal man whose experiences are made possible through our experiences.
    EINSTEIN: This is a realization of the human entity.
    TAGORE: Yes, one eternal entity. We have to realize it through our emotions and activities. We realize the supreme man, who has no individuaL limitations, through our limitations.
    Science is concerned with that which is not confined to individuals; it is the impersonal human world of truths. Religion realizes these truths and links them up with our deeper needs. Our individual consciousness of truth gains universal significance. Religion applies values to truth, and we know truth as good through own harmony with it. EINSTEIN Truth, then, or beauty, is not independent of man?
    TAGORE: No, I do not say so.
    EINSTEIN: If there were no human beings any more, the Apollo Belvedere no longer would be beautiful?
    TAGORE: No!
    EINSTEIN: I agree with this conception of beauty, but not with regard to truth.
    TAGORE Why not? Truth is realized through men.
    EINSTEIN I cannot prove my conception is right, but that is my religion.
    TAGORE Beauty is in the ideal of perfect harmony, which is in the universal being; truth is the perfect comprehension of the universal mind. We individuals approach it through our own mistakes and blunders, through our accumulated experience, through our illumined consciousness. How otherwise can we know truth?
    EINSTEIN: I cannot prove, but I believe in the Pythagorean argument, that the truth is independent of human beings. It is the problem of the logic of continuity.
    TAGORE : Truth, which is one with the universal being, must be essentially human; otherwise, whatever we individuals realize as true, never can be called truth. At least, the truth which is described as scientific and which only can be reached through the process of logic - —in other words, by an organ of thought which is human. According to the Indian philosophy there is Brahman, the absolute truth, which cannot be conceived by the isolation of the individual mind or described by words, but can be realized only by merging the individual in its infinity. But such a truth cannot belong to science. The nature of truth which we are discussing is an appearance; that is to say, what appears to be true to the human mind, and therefore is human, and may be called maya, or illusion.
    EINSTEIN It is no illusion of the individual, but of the species.
    TAGORE: The species also belongs to a unity, to humanity. Therefore the entire human mind realizes truth; the Indian and the European mind meet in a common realization.
    ***
    EINSTEIN: The word species is used in German for all human beings; as a matter of fact, even the apes and the frogs would belong to it. The problem is whether truth is independent of our consciousness.
    TAGORE: What we call truth lies in the rational harmony between the subjective and objective aspects of reality, both of which belong to the superpersonal man.
    EINSTEIN: We do things with our mind, even in our everyday life, for which we are not responsible. The mind acknowledges realities outside of it, independent of it. For instance, nobody may be in this house, yet that table remains where it is.
    TAGORE: Yes, it remains outside the individual mind, but not the universal mind. The table is that which is perceptible by some kind of consciousness we possess.
    EINSTEIN: If nobody were in the house the table would exist all the same, but this is already illegitimate from your point of view, because we cannot explain what it means, that the table is there, independently of us. Our natural point of view in regard to the existence of truth apart from humanity cannot be explained or proved, but it is a belief which nobody can lack - —not even primitive beings. We attribute to truth a superhuman objectivity. It is indispensable for us - —this reality which is independent of our existence and our experience and our mind - though we cannot say what it means.
    TAGORE: In any case, if there be any truth absolutely unrelated to humanity, then for us it is absolutely non-existing.
    EINSTEIN: Then I am more religious than you are!
    TAGORE: My religion is in the reconciliation of the superpersonal man, the universal spirit, in my own individual being.
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    “Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man.”

    January 19, 1936
    My dear Dr. Einstein,
    We have brought up the question: Do scientists pray? in our Sunday school class. It began by asking whether we could believe in both science and religion. We are writing to scientists and other important men, to try and have our own question answered.
    We will feel greatly honored if you will answer our question: Do scientists pray, and what do they pray for?
    We are in the sixth grade, Miss Ellis’s class.
    Respectfully yours,
    Phyllis

    January 24, 1936
    Dear Phyllis,
    I will attempt to reply to your question as simply as I can. Here is my answer:
    Scientists believe that every occurrence, including the affairs of human beings, is due to the laws of nature. Therefore a scientist cannot be inclined to believe that the course of events can be influenced by prayer, that is, by a supernaturally manifested wish.
    However, we must concede that our actual knowledge of these forces is imperfect, so that in the end the belief in the existence of a final, ultimate spirit rests on a kind of faith. Such belief remains widespread even with the current achievements in science.
    But also, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is surely quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.
    With cordial greetings,
    your A. Einstein


    Einstein would have been 18 years old when Francis Church penned his famous answer to an 8 year old girl (Virginia O'Hanlon) regarding the existence of Santa Claus. I would imagine that by 1936 Albert would have read it. Einstein's answer has the same tone to it as Church's answer. Anyway I took the time to modify Church's answer to fit the question posed to Einstein....

    Phyllis, those who insist that scientists do not pray are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.Yes, scientists pray. They pray as certainly as thoughts and ideas and imagination exist. Alas! How dreary would the world be if there was no praying scientist. It would be as dreary as if there were no believers. There would be no childlike faith, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which believers fill the world would be extinguished. Not believe in scientists praying! You might as well not believe in fairies. If you do not witness a Griffin fly or a dragon breathe fire, what would that prove? The things that are most real are those which we cannot see. Not seeing a scientist pray is no proof that they are not. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in this world. There is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance can push aside that curtain and view the beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? In all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No praying scientist? They pray and they'll pray forever. A 1000 years from now or 10,000 years from now, praying scientists will continue to make glad the hearts of inquisitive 8 year olds.

    Last edited by zinjanthropos; July 10th, 2014 at 06:59 PM.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
     

  12. #11  
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    Dude, you are a poet at heart.
    Enjoy the compliment before I get banned yet again.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I may have said this before at another site. Me and my older (he was in grade 5 or 6, I was in 2 or 3) brother wanted to go to church but also wanted money to put in the plate to be nice. He inquired as to the reason, but we were just intending to participate for the sake of participating. So he gave us so money and we left.

    When we got there and sat down and Mass started, I didn't take too long for us to get horrendously bored. So we left and spent the money on snacks.
    What is the relevance of this unremarkable little anecdote?
    I think it was a confession of being rather naughty.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I may have said this before at another site. Me and my older (he was in grade 5 or 6, I was in 2 or 3) brother wanted to go to church but also wanted money to put in the plate to be nice. He inquired as to the reason, but we were just intending to participate for the sake of participating. So he gave us so money and we left.

    When we got there and sat down and Mass started, I didn't take too long for us to get horrendously bored. So we left and spent the money on snacks.
    What is the relevance of this unremarkable little anecdote?

    Why don't you tell everyone how much of an idiot I am?

    You know you want to.
    Last edited by Beer w/Straw; July 15th, 2014 at 05:12 AM.
     

  15. #14  
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    Personally I am not a subscriber to Einsteinian relativity, but one anecdote might be of interest to those who are.

    I was told by someone in a position to know about it, that Theosophists claim that there was a book found on Einstein's desk after he died titled "The Secret Doctrine" by Helena Blavatsky. (TSD is a lengthy treatise on her blending of theology, eastern mysticism, especially as it relates to anthropology, and science (as it was known at the time, the late 1800s.)
     

  16. #15  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Who cares, there is a book by Velikovsky on my book shelf that I bought for a laugh, a scientist owning a book of woo doesn't stop it being bullshit...
     

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    No.


    I want this asshole to tell me how stupid I am.
     

  18. #17  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    No.


    I want this asshole to tell me how stupid I am.
    My post was aimed at Michael, what are you on about?

    EDIT: Ah, I see it was probably aimed at exchemist, never mind...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    No.


    I want this asshole to tell me how stupid I am.
    Which asshole are we talking about?
     

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    The person harassing me on more than one forum.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Anteski View Post
    Personally I am not a subscriber to Einsteinian relativity, but one anecdote might be of interest to those who are.

    I was told by someone in a position to know about it, that Theosophists claim that there was a book found on Einstein's desk after he died titled "The Secret Doctrine" by Helena Blavatsky. (TSD is a lengthy treatise on her blending of theology, eastern mysticism, especially as it relates to anthropology, and science (as it was known at the time, the late 1800s.)
    I have come across some of this stuff a bit too in the past. Do you think there is something to it?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    The person harassing me on more than one forum.
    PH Demon?
     

  23. #22  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Not guilty, I've only posted on this forum recently.
     

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    Ok, it was probably PHDemon.
     

  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Anteski View Post
    I was told by someone in a position to know about it, that Theosophists claim that there was a book found on Einstein's desk after he died titled "The Secret Doctrine" by Helena Blavatsky.
    Yeah, unfortunately the Theosophists (starting with Blavatsky herself) were not above outright lying in order to promote their agenda.
    Thus your claim that you were told by "someone in a position to know about it" in actual fact means you were told by "someone who'd accepted the entirely unconfirmed (and likely false) myth".

    Theosophist' claim:
    "In checking this information it was learned that a niece of Einstein’s, in India during the 1960s, paid a special visit to the headquarters of the Theosophical Society at Adyar. She explained that she knew nothing of theosophy or the society, but had to see the place because her uncle always had a copy of Madame Blavatsky’s Secret Doctrine on his desk. The individual to whom the niece spoke was Eunice Layton, a world-traveled theosophical lecturer who happened to be at the reception desk when she arrived. While in Ojai, California, in January 1982, Sylvia Cranston met Mrs. Eunice Layton, who confirmed the story".

    Facts:
    There is no evidence that Einstein had a niece (one sibling had no children at all and the other is not known to have had any).
    Mrs. Layton never mentioned having seen the book.


    You really should try to be less gullible.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  26. #25  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Ok, it was probably PHDemon.
    Not everyone is a dishonest troll like you...

    As I said:

    Not guilty, I've only posted on this forum recently.


    I don't lie.
     

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    Dude, you have over 3000 posts, and you have only posted here just recently?
     

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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Yes, why is this so hard for you to believe, you may choose to troll on many forums, I decided to spend time contributing to one.
     

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    I didn't get how that relates to you have only posted here just recently? That is obviously lying.
     

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    *Checks pockets and finds no troll food, pats the silly little girl on the head and walks away.*
     

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    Just because somebody says (stage entrance speach) I am a troll - must I play the role ?


    Is it a question of gandeur or a question of honor,

    or both or shall it contain a breach?

    Does in a certain container contain a 1 or a nine

    and will in time the 1 and the nine be both mine

    I wonder and beseach - but my pickup battery is still dead

    and that still sucks -why can't they build better pickup trucks?

    What will this world of wonders lead to next?

    Does the entrance need work, PHD?
    Last edited by Mayflow; July 15th, 2014 at 09:23 AM.
     

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    Not PhDemon.

    I was thinking of making fun of chemists, but they can be intelligent people too.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Not PhDemon.

    I was thinking of making fun of chemists, but they can be intelligent people too.
    You are a naughty boy - I was doing Troll entrance - but well PH is innocent then. (Well you know of the multiple forum hounding charges) - he did still call me a troll though, so I tried to follow the directors instructions - I may have to find better directors.

    Anyhow, huns, back to why I made the topic. Sometimes people like Einstein and others (Neils Bohr and Tesla I think are super dreamy) - but sometimes they are not good at relating knowledge to children. That is a bit of an extreme of my message on this particular thought form basis, and a bit not fair of me, as the letter in question was written by an author who did not know the little girl, so could not know how to relate to her. He meant well though I presume, and that perhaps carries a greater message.
     

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    You don't know my gender. I've made fun of engineers before. I'm still concerned about studying physics and not majoring in mathematics. Am I not allowed to get angry?

    I'm not happy. Tell the moderators to ban me if you want.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    You don't know my gender. I've made fun of engineers before. I'm still concerned about studying physics and not majoring in mathematics. Am I not allowed to get angry?

    I'm not happy. Tell the moderators to ban me if you want.
    Nonono - I like you - I don't want you banned - ps I really don't want to get banned any more either! 5 times should be enough.

    You can enroll here if you want. Forum : Consciousness in Motion
     

  36. #35  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I've made fun of engineers before.
    Um, you CAN'T "make fun" of engineers.
    If you're an engineer it's merely self-description.
    If you're not an engineer then, by definition, your opinion isn't worth listening to.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    You're not a physicist.



    How 'bout you don't respond to me.
     

  38. #37  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    You're not a physicist.
    Oh, wrong.

    How 'bout you don't respond to me.
    Ah right.
    What have I ever done to you?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    Are you a physicist?
     

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    Duck, back off. Give beer a chance - I kinda like always wanted to say that, but seriously it seems Beer is going through some things, right now so be nice to her. ps did I freaking get the gender right this time?
     

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    I want an answer to the question.

    Is duck even a mathematician?
     

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    If he is, I haven't seen it yet. Whoa, what supercharged your motor?
     

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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I want an answer to the question.

    Is duck even a mathematician?
    Not sure. In the very least he's an engineer who's studied mathematics in an autodidact manner. Plus (ohh the plus is a math sign!) he's contributed to more-or-less every section of this forum (as well as other science based forums). If he's being "rude" to you, there's almost certainly a good reason (I.E, posting non-scientific claims, though I haven't read your recent posts so I shouldn't draw that conclusion.) Honestly, he's been a really nice (albeit grumpy at times) fellow to me whenever I had personal inquiries.

    P.S. May mentioned you were upset? I can't find anything in recent posts to conclude that, but I hope all is well.
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    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
     

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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    Engineering has a strong basis in both mathematics and physics (linear algebra, calculus, electricity and magnetism, general physics, etc) and even chemistry. An engineer would be the polar (yes, that's a pun) opposite of "intellectual crap". I don't mean to be, well, mean? But you are simply incorrect in this instance.
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    Am I? Incorrect?

    How many engineers study theoretical physics?

    Zero.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Are you a physicist?
    Have been - more or less retired now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Duck, back off. Give beer a chance
    Er, what?
    I should back off?
    Because I made a single humorous post and get told to not respond I should back off?

    but seriously it seems Beer is going through some things, right now so be nice to her
    Yeah, and no one else in the world, or on this forum is.
    Be nice to someone who - completely without provocation tells me not to respond to her posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I want an answer to the question.
    Is duck even a mathematician?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.
    They are intellectual crap.
    Then you're completely f*cking clueless about engineers.

    Am I? Incorrect?
    Yes.

    How many engineers study theoretical physics?
    Zero.
    Wrong again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    That isn't true , Some are pretty smart and nice
    You have just not come across them yet it seems but they really do exist,
    but then I believe in Unicorns too. Seriously Beer, there are good ones.
    Unicorns, I mean.

    There are good ducks too, you cannot judge all ducks by one.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    That isn't true , Some are pretty smart and nice
    You have just not come across them yet it seems but they really do exist,
    but then I believe in Unicorns too. Seriously Beer, there are good ones.
    Unicorns, I mean.
    Very few unicorns achieve a degree in engineering. Mostly because they have no use for it, in fact, most unicorns I've met just played videogames in their parent's basement.
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    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    That isn't true , Some are pretty smart and nice
    You have just not come across them yet it seems but they really do exist,
    but then I believe in Unicorns too. Seriously Beer, there are good ones.
    Unicorns, I mean.
    Very few unicorns achieve a degree in engineering. Mostly because they have no use for it, in fact, most unicorns I've met just played videogames in their parent's basement.
    I figured that, from your other posts, but I was saying to Beer that there are actually good ones.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.
    Why would a duck want a degree in String Theory? They can't even play with strings. Now, if he were a feline, that would be logical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.
    Warning!
    Goal posts in motion.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.

    How many engineers study theoretical physics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.
    Duck has been called out. The audience awaits - sorry a bit of theater stuff... but well?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.
    Duck has been called out. The audience awaits - sorry a bit of theater stuff... but well?
    You realize the "callout" has been manipulated over the course of several posts *(I.E shifting the goal posts) and now is an absurdity, yes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Some are pretty smart
    IQ 162.
    Is that "smart" enough?

    and nice
    Astonishingly I have a long-held reputation for being "Mr Nice Guy".
    But I only am so where and when it's warranted.

    This is forum discussion of ideas.
    Ideas (like science) couldn't give a flying f*ck whether you're "nice" or not, only whether they stand up.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Well, duck can prove that he has a PhD in Astrophysics or String Theory.

    If not, something like that, he's just a liar.
    Why would a duck want a degree in String Theory? They can't even play with strings. Now, if he were a feline, that would be logical.
    O great. Now you make sense. Good interlude though! :-)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    Please keep in mind that you cast a broad and undeserved disparagement.

    I am an engineer who has performed some mathematical feats, one of which has baffled quite a few university mathematics professors.

    Beer w/ Straw, what academic credentials have you earned?

    Same question to you, Mayflow.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Some are pretty smart
    IQ 162.
    Is that "smart" enough?

    and nice
    Astonishingly I have a long-held reputation for being "Mr Nice Guy".
    But I only am so where and when it's warranted.

    This is forum discussion of ideas.
    Ideas (like science) couldn't give a flying f*ck whether you're "nice" or not, only whether they stand up.
    Probably if you use it well. Mine is only 151 at last test. Now tell of string theory? I will actually believe your IQ number, but now show it. Not by being a dink to me and beer and others but by showing your brains in non mean ways, pretty please?
     

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    I'm a physics undergraduate.

    Dywyddyr can go fuck himself.

    "Nice guy" my ass. IQ 162? I shit better than that.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Some are pretty smart
    IQ 162.
    Is that "smart" enough?

    and nice
    Astonishingly I have a long-held reputation for being "Mr Nice Guy".
    But I only am so where and when it's warranted.

    This is forum discussion of ideas.
    Ideas (like science) couldn't give a flying f*ck whether you're "nice" or not, only whether they stand up.
    Probably if you use it well. Mine is only 151 at last test. Now tell of string theory? I will actually believe your IQ number, but now show it. Not by being a dink to me and beer and others but by showing your brains in non mean ways, pretty please?
    151? As in, Bacardi 151?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I find this interesting, ...
    In what manner exactly?

    That a question from a sixth grader in Sunday school asked if Einstein himself and/or (to his knowledge) scientists in general pray to the abrahamic deity because they (the children in sixth grade) used the word religion (singular) instead of religions (plural)? Or...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I'm a physics undergraduate.

    Dywyddyr can go fuck himself.
    Beer - please mellow down. Something pissed you off pretty grandly, but really you cannot take these things so seriously. You are like getting mad at everybody - and that should be overcome from within you.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Probably if you use it well.
    Er what?
    Who defines "well"?
    I do what I do (see Feynman's take on this, here), and I do it well enough for my purposes and well enough to establish a solid reputation with the people that I consider to count.
    I'm not particularly interested in doing anything else.

    I will actually believe your IQ number, but now show it.
    By...?

    Not by being a dink to me and beer
    Oh, wrong.
    I'm a "dink" to you because you post untenable crap. If you posted something rational/ worthwhile/ non-woo then you'd get a response you might consider "non-dinky".
    Beer was a "dink" to me, not me to her.

    by showing your brains in non mean ways, pretty please?
    Yeah, you missed this:
    This is forum discussion of ideas.
    Ideas (like science) couldn't give a flying f*ck whether you're "nice" or not, only whether they stand up.
    I'm not here to socialise, I'm here to stretch my intellect.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; July 15th, 2014 at 01:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I'm a physics undergraduate.
    Been there. Done that.

    "Nice guy" my ass.
    Oh dear, someone doesn't read entire posts, do they?

    IQ 162? I shit better than that.
    Yeah. Of course you do.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    Please keep in mind that you cast a broad and undeserved disparagement.

    I am an engineer who has performed some mathematical feats, one of which has baffled quite a few university mathematics professors.

    Beer w/ Straw, what academic credentials have you earned?

    Same question to you, Mayflow.

    No - you tell me. What is your baffling math feat?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Engineers are not physicists or mathematicians.

    They are intellectual crap.
    Please keep in mind that you cast a broad and undeserved disparagement.

    I am an engineer who has performed some mathematical feats, one of which has baffled quite a few university mathematics professors.

    Beer w/ Straw, what academic credentials have you earned?

    Same question to you, Mayflow.

    No - you tell me. What is your baffling math feat?
    Paying for his tuition.
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    Um... Retard head.

    You could have just ignored me in the first place.

    Why don't you try now?

    Idiot, I.Q. 162 I'm impressed. My I.Q. is 12.
     

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    Another funny interlude, dude you are good at this. I hope you are right and he paid his own tuition.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Paying for his tuition.
    Damn!
    Where's the "Like" button when you really need it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Um... Retard head.

    You could have just ignored me in the first place.

    Why don't you try now?

    Mellow Beer, please?
     

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    No! If Dywyddyr has studied Astrophyshics or String Theory and he brags about having the I.Q. of 162 HE CAN FUCKING BRING IT!
     

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    Perhaps Beer should take a day or two and let her hormones subside.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Perhaps Beer should take a day or two and let her hormones subside.
    I'll take it under advisement.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    No! If Dywyddyr has studied Astrophyshics or String Theory and he brags about having the I.Q. of 162 HE CAN FUCKING BRING IT!
    What I find amusing is that someone considers it okay to make a generally disparaging remark about engineers, gets a humorous reply in response, declares that I should not reply to her posts 1 and then it devolves into insults (against me specifically and against engineers in general) and incorrect assumptions, all the while making unsupported claims 2 and moving goalposts.
    Go figure...

    1 Why, I have no idea: I haven't, to my recollection, particularly interacted with her prior to this and certainly can't remember any disparaging remarks I may or may not have made against her.
    2 E.g. posted fewer responses in the physics sub-forum than I have.

    To drag it back on to topic, could someone please tell me WTF an exchange of letters between Einstein and some young girl has to do with the SCIENTIFIC study of religion? Or even ANY study of religion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    he brags about having the I.Q. of 162
    I suggest you go back and read the relevant posts.
    There was no "bragging".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    To drag it back on to topic, could someone please tell me WTF an exchange of letters between Einstein and some young girl has to do with the SCIENTIFIC study of religion? Or even ANY study of religion?
    I can think of a few if I'd actually shared Mayflow's interest about the exchange (which I don't), but since the answer to that has not been brought up in and by the OP to my knowledge, I'm honestly as curious as you are regarding the subforum of choice for this thread.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    No! If Dywyddyr has studied Astrophyshics or String Theory and he brags about having the I.Q. of 162 HE CAN FUCKING BRING IT!
    What I find amusing is that someone considers it okay to make a generally disparaging remark about engineers, gets a humorous reply in response, declares that I should not reply to her posts 1 and then it devolves into insults (against me specifically and against engineers in general) and incorrect assumptions, all the while making unsupported claims 2 and moving goalposts.
    Go figure...

    1 Why, I have no idea: I haven't, to my recollection, particularly interacted with her prior to this and certainly can't remember any disparaging remarks I may or may not have made against her.
    2 E.g. posted fewer responses in the physics sub-forum than I have.

    To drag it back on to topic, could someone please tell me WTF an exchange of letters between Einstein and some young girl has to do with the SCIENTIFIC study of religion? Or even ANY study of religion?
    It's interesting that he said how science itself is a spiritual experience of sorts. That alone may be worthy of a thread, especially considering there aren't that many topics outside of anthropology and psychology that qualify as true scientific studies of religion.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    No! If Dywyddyr has studied Astrophyshics or String Theory and he brags about having the I.Q. of 162 HE CAN FUCKING BRING IT!

    I don't think he can, though. He can say he does, but like you see, the proof is not there. I don't know anything about string theory either, maybe a touch in Astrophysics, but not so much. The string thing has something to do with waves vibrating at certain frequencies, does it? Then something about membranes also vibrating? Frequencies of vibrations create harmonics of those frequencies and the waves travel around and reveberate and echo and reflect and refract and we have lots of waves that create positive and negative interferences patterns and are sometimes in phase and sometimes not in phase - something like that?
     

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    I was not in any way trying to offend you.


    You did brag about your I.Q.! So fuck off! It's only more lies from you to deny you did. Why can't you shut up and leave me the fuck alone.
     

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    Who are you talking to?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    I was not in any way trying to offend you.


    You did brag about your I.Q.! So fuck off! It's only more lies from you to deny you did. Why can't you shut up and leave me the fuck alone.
    sigh....a week off for the language and trolling.
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    I was kind of like digging the conversation, but Beer maybe could have toned it down a bit. So like now what about String theory? Can Ducky start it off? The strings may vibrate in unsuspected ways, might they not? In near fields - there are many abnormalities that can not be always accounted for, but in far fields there is more uniform distribution - Near and far field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    I was kind of like digging the conversation, but Beer maybe could have toned it down a bit. So like now what about String theory? Can Ducky start it off? The strings may vibrate in unsuspected ways, might they not? In near fields - there are many abnormalities that can not be always accounted for, but in far fields there is more uniform distribution - Near and far field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    If you can't stick somewhat to the topic or troll people than please don't post anything at all. You'd be reported less often and collectively the forum would regard you as less of a nuisance.
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    Sorry, my fault for talking about science here. I make my living in RF energy field, and this was my topic to begin with.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    So like now what about String theory? Can Ducky start it off?
    Yeah, my bad.
    I keep forgetting that "theoretical physics" consists entirely and exclusively of string theory (or astrophysics).
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

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    The strings may vibrate in unsuspected ways, might they not?
    The strings can vibrate through all 11 dimensions comprising a Calabi-Yau shape.

    There are however hundreds of thousands of possible Calabi-Yau shapes, and there's currently no way to know which one actually exists.
    But this isn't the string thread.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

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    Yeah, but I created the thread and your Chrystaline structured images are finely acceptable to me.
     

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    And you named it "Interesting musing by Einstein'. If you want to discuss string theory, open a thread on string theory. This is the scientific study of religion forum.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    a thread on string theory.
    *snicker*
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    Fine, this "thread" is now open to "string" theory. Have at it to your delight.
     

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    2,810
    May, you don't control the thread, nor do you decide what should be posted where. This is the religion forum, not the physics forum.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
     

  93. #92  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
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    4,436
    Alex, she's just trolling you, ignore the dappy bint, hopefully she'll get bored and go away.
     

  94. #93  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Terms such as "dappy bint" aren't helping either.

    A lot of folks dedicated to this forum might have hoped that a thread about the religious views of Einstein might remain about his religions views, or perhaps something related such as: a comparison between his various writings; or how his quotes are often pulled out of context by secularist and religious folks alike; or even a comparison with other prominent scientist before, during and after his life.

    But instead
    Mayflow continues to derail the thread, an endless pattern of derailing threads or inability to stick to any subject for more than a couple post...argg.

    And the
    mod team gets an entire page of reported post about what amounts to petty squabbling.

    The mod team is considering dropping the hammer in this type of behavior across the board. Knock off the personal insults now.

    Thread closed.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
     

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