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Thread: Should religion be confined to the past and let science take over for the search of creation

  1. #1 Should religion be confined to the past and let science take over for the search of creation 
    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    Is it just me but does religion seem dated, does it seem to anyone that all religions are so dated.
    Is it just me,but when faith believers that make there woman wear masks in public, it seems medieval barbaric and
    cruel when faith followers get mutilated in certain parts in the name of religion. This seems dated
    I wonder how intelligent people can fall for such rubbish that some preachers preach.
    Is it time for science to take over the meaning of creation,and let people know the facts about death.


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    The only way to get rid of these brain viruses is to prohibit religious indoctrination of children, nothing else will cut it. There are laws against sects, they should be expanded and applied strictly to religions. It is the responsability of the society to protect children from that kind of child abuse, and from the stupidity of those who indoctrinate them...


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    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    That would never happen. But it would be good to see an alternative an alternative built on facts and not mumbo jumbo medieval preachings which incarcerates woman as second class beings and so on. Why does certain religious preaching always demeaning the female species .?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    That would never happen. But it would be good to see an alternative an alternative built on facts and not mumbo jumbo medieval preachings which incarcerates woman as second class beings and so on. Why does certain religious preaching always demeaning the female species .?
    Women are of the same species, and all religions don't demean them. The unappealing aspects of religions have been overcome by every person of intelligence. Perhaps we should provide education to all people (I would suggest we start in our own countries) and the intelligent individual will transcend the barbaric behavior.
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    Woman are portrayed as subservient to men which is demeaning.
    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
    President Dwight Eisenhower
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    I'm here to tell you that you don't need religion to be demeaning to women or to be a racist or to be any other kind of nasty.

    The only problem with religion in relation to various forms of bad human behaviour is that it codifies it. Seeing as any atheist who's thought about it for more than 5 minutes should realise, those objectionable religious ideas had to come from somewhere. Ff you don't believe they came from god/s, where did they come from? They came from people. People with nasty ideas.

    Get rid of religion and you're still stuck with people.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    No religion does injustice to any woman or a man. In some religions women are supposed to wear masks. This is to give her security but not at the cost of freedom. one has to sacrifice some freedom to gain security. In Muslim countries the crime rate is lower than in western countries. Its a question of justice and some sacrifice is necessary. I am sorry to say but God made superior and inferior species. HE also made men and women unequal(i may be sounding sexist).
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    No religion does injustice to any woman or a man.
    Wrong.

    In some religions women are supposed to wear masks. This is to give her security
    Really?
    How?

    I am sorry to say but God made superior and inferior species.
    Evidence required.

    HE also made men and women unequal(i may be sounding sexist).
    No, you just sound ridiculous.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    No religion does injustice to any woman or a man. In some religions women are supposed to wear masks. This is to give her security but not at the cost of freedom. one has to sacrifice some freedom to gain security. In Muslim countries the crime rate is lower than in western countries. Its a question of justice and some sacrifice is necessary. I am sorry to say but God made superior and inferior species. HE also made men and women unequal(i may be sounding sexist).
    You sound like a nut.

    God made us right after we made HIM. You think the crime rate is lower in Muslim countries... Well Western countries don't have public beheadings. Yeah sure, woman wearing masks are completely secure in Muslim countries... begs the question why they have to run around with a male escort when they have their super hero mask on.
    I can see by your post as a whole you cannot recognize sexism. Good day.
    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    No religion does injustice to any woman or a man. In some religions women are supposed to wear masks. This is to give her security but not at the cost of freedom. one has to sacrifice some freedom to gain security. In Muslim countries the crime rate is lower than in western countries. Its a question of justice and some sacrifice is necessary. I am sorry to say but God made superior and inferior species. HE also made men and women unequal(i may be sounding sexist).
    If she wants to wear it, great, I have nothing against Islamic culture. Forcing women to do a bunch of things including wearing a mask at gunpoint demeans her value as a human being. And hence you get all these cases where a woman is raped then she is punished, but the man is fine. No, the idea that the sexes are unequal allows a culture where one gender is considered to be less of a human being.

    It seems to me the best aspects of Islamic culture come about when they are optional, and when they are forced at gunpoint they have horrible consequences. The same could be said for just about any religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Is it just me but does religion seem dated, does it seem to anyone that all religions are so dated.
    Religions have always been dated. That's why they need to constantly reinvent themselves. Most of their doctrines are not supported by their scripture.
    Is it just me,but when faith believers that make their woman wear masks in public, it seems medieval barbaric and cruel when faith followers get mutilated in certain parts in the name of religion. This seems dated
    Female adornments are not uncommon in Christianity either. Some muslim women are shrouded like corpses but this is not universal. I would guard against the media propaganda. Islam is very diverse. Know something about this as I have a muslim girlfriend. She wears what she likes.
    I wonder how intelligent people can fall for such rubbish that some preachers preach.
    I agree with you there. They need to be challenged. Ask them for evidence. We should base nothing on ancient texts before the age of science.
    Is it time for science to take over the meaning of creation,and let people know the facts about death.
    Are you referring to evolution and selfish (ugh!) genes? People are brought down to Earth by angels, and whisked back up after dying, aren't they?
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    You call it creation. That's an optimistic start for even you. I say this sincerely and not with sarcasm
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    I don't care what others believe in as referring to religion.

    Just don't talk to me about it, unless I ask.

    Don't try to convert me. I am not interested.

    Don't quote the bible to me. It is a historical fiction novel loosely based on people.

    Don't tell me there is a god and I have to believe in him. You are welcome to believe in him/her/it but I frankly, am not interested

    Don't tell me there is a hell...frankly don't believe it, but to humor you... if there is....I'm going there....that is where the party is going to be

    Don't tell me about a place called limbo or purgatory....that is so ridiculous it isn't even funny

    Don't tell me there is a heaven....not that I believe in it....but sounds really boring...I mean if it's the real deal....wel I already sing like an angel......have surfed a little...have great golf courses? and of course a great beach with snorkelin..oh....and at least 20 terrestrial 40 year olds .....ok....make them 30....I'm in heaven ......and naked...forget this clothes stuff...I mean if you are in hell they'd be part of the nightly bonfire....


    So don't confine your religion...you are welcome to it...

    just recognize...I am not interested in it.....and confine your comments to acknowledge that fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't care what others believe in as referring to religion.

    Just don't talk to me about it, unless I ask.

    Don't try to convert me. I am not interested.

    Don't quote the bible to me. It is a historical fiction novel loosely based on people.

    Don't tell me there is a god and I have to believe in him. You are welcome to believe in him/her/it but I frankly, am not interested

    Don't tell me there is a hell...frankly don't believe it, but to humor you... if there is....I'm going there....that is where the party is going to be

    Don't tell me about a place called limbo or purgatory....that is so ridiculous it isn't even funny

    Don't tell me there is a heaven....not that I believe in it....but sounds really boring...I mean if it's the real deal....wel I already sing like an angel......have surfed a little...have great golf courses? and of course a great beach with snorkelin..oh....and at least 20 terrestrial 40 year olds .....ok....make them 30....I'm in heaven ......and naked...forget this clothes stuff...I mean if you are in hell they'd be part of the nightly bonfire....


    So don't confine your religion...you are welcome to it...

    just recognize...I am not interested in it.....and confine your comments to acknowledge that fact.
    I believe in something, I don't know about Heaven or Hell, or even purgatory.

    I believe in Justice for the wrongly convicted.

    I believe in Freedom of speech, even on The Science Forum.
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    Is Mayflow still around or has she gone out the door?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nic321 View Post
    The only way to get rid of these brain viruses is to prohibit religious indoctrination of children, nothing else will cut it. There are laws against sects, they should be expanded and applied strictly to religions. It is the responsability of the society to protect children from that kind of child abuse, and from the stupidity of those who indoctrinate them...
    This has been tried. The most notable example was the Soviet Union. The results weren't pretty.

    Do I think people who believe the world is run by some invisible man in the sky are a little nutty? Sure. Does it do any great harm that they do? In the great majority of cases, no.

    Those who have put up with my ramblings on this forum have probably noticed some of my prior rants against the evils of the medieval catholic church. No question in my mind, that was a monstrous institution. But the modern catholic church is not the same institution. The turning point came when the printing press dropped the cost of owning a bible to something an ordinary person could afford. People no longer accepted the church's word as the only interpretation of God's will, they read their Bibles, disagreed with some doctrines, eventually formed dissenting creeds in the protestant reformation. The catholic church fought this reformation bitterly for a couple of centuries, then wised up. It became a kinder, gentler church, attracting adherents through good deeds and example rather than terror wrought by fire and sword. I have problems with the current church doctrine, but they are relatively minor, and I count several practicing catholics among my friends.

    Though violent religious fanatics are much in the news, these people are not representative of global religion as a whole. Most of the more successful modern faiths, in terms of numbers, have pretty much adopted the strategy of the catholics -- reach out, emphasize getting along, stress charity and good works. The ultra-conservative sects turning to violence and terrorism are doing so precisely because the friendlier tactics of the more numerous denominations are working. The ultra-conservatives see their numbers dwindling, their creed becoming irrelevant, and in desperation some of them adopt violence to try and turn the tide.

    To me, the key to getting people to think sensibly, is above all to encourage them to THINK. Having someone else's worldview thrust upon them simply doesn't work. Most of the world's progressive countries are moving away from religion. Not because anybody made them, but because people are deciding for themselves that religion is pretty pointless. I feel increasing educational standards and access to the wealth of information available via the internet have something to do with that.
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    I think there are a lot of people who fail to realise religion is not just epistemological, it is a common form of identity that has existed for thousands of years that transcends mere belief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't care what others believe in as referring to religion.

    Just don't talk to me about it, unless I ask.

    Don't try to convert me. I am not interested.

    Don't quote the bible to me. It is a historical fiction novel loosely based on people.

    Don't tell me there is a god and I have to believe in him. You are welcome to believe in him/her/it but I frankly, am not interested

    Don't tell me there is a hell...frankly don't believe it, but to humor you... if there is....I'm going there....that is where the party is going to be

    Don't tell me about a place called limbo or purgatory....that is so ridiculous it isn't even funny

    Don't tell me there is a heaven....not that I believe in it....but sounds really boring...I mean if it's the real deal....wel I already sing like an angel......have surfed a little...have great golf courses? and of course a great beach with snorkelin..oh....and at least 20 terrestrial 40 year olds .....ok....make them 30....I'm in heaven ......and naked...forget this clothes stuff...I mean if you are in hell they'd be part of the nightly bonfire....


    So don't confine your religion...you are welcome to it...

    just recognize...I am not interested in it.....and confine your comments to acknowledge that fact.
    I believe in something, I don't know about Heaven or Hell, or even purgatory.

    I believe in Justice for the wrongly convicted.

    I believe in Freedom of speech, even on The Science Forum.

    I believe, you live, you die. End of chapter and book.

    However, that doesn't make you can't make a difference while you are on the right side of the grass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't care what others believe in as referring to religion.

    Just don't talk to me about it, unless I ask.

    Don't try to convert me. I am not interested.

    Don't quote the bible to me. It is a historical fiction novel loosely based on people.

    Don't tell me there is a god and I have to believe in him. You are welcome to believe in him/her/it but I frankly, am not interested

    Don't tell me there is a hell...frankly don't believe it, but to humor you... if there is....I'm going there....that is where the party is going to be

    Don't tell me about a place called limbo or purgatory....that is so ridiculous it isn't even funny

    Don't tell me there is a heaven....not that I believe in it....but sounds really boring...I mean if it's the real deal....wel I already sing like an angel......have surfed a little...have great golf courses? and of course a great beach with snorkelin..oh....and at least 20 terrestrial 40 year olds .....ok....make them 30....I'm in heaven ......and naked...forget this clothes stuff...I mean if you are in hell they'd be part of the nightly bonfire....


    So don't confine your religion...you are welcome to it...

    just recognize...I am not interested in it.....and confine your comments to acknowledge that fact.
    I believe in something, I don't know about Heaven or Hell, or even purgatory.

    I believe in Justice for the wrongly convicted.

    I believe in Freedom of speech, even on The Science Forum.

    I believe, you live, you die. End of chapter and book.

    However, that doesn't make you can't make a difference while you are on the right side of the grass.
    How can it be proven otherwise? I'm still trying to make the difference, trying to understand if there is something other than just a dead end.
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    I believe, you live, you die. End of chapter and book.

    However, that doesn't make you can't make a difference while you are on the right side of the grass.[/QUOTE]
    How can it be proven otherwise? I'm still trying to make the difference, trying to understand if there is something other than just a dead end.[/QUOTE]

    If there were...after all these hundreds and hundreds of years it would have been found.

    It's a dead end....you give your body back to mother nature.

    Well I will. NO casket, no grave... let me feed the earth
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I believe, you live, you die. End of chapter and book.

    However, that doesn't make you can't make a difference while you are on the right side of the grass.
    How can it be proven otherwise? I'm still trying to make the difference, trying to understand if there is something other than just a dead end.[/QUOTE]

    If there were...after all these hundreds and hundreds of years it would have been found.

    It's a dead end....you give your body back to mother nature.

    Well I will. NO casket, no grave... let me feed the earth[/QUOTE]
    Where does that happen? Where do they just leave corpses to rot today? Strangely enough that is what I want too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I believe, you live, you die. End of chapter and book.

    However, that doesn't make you can't make a difference while you are on the right side of the grass.
    How can it be proven otherwise? I'm still trying to make the difference, trying to understand if there is something other than just a dead end.
    If there were...after all these hundreds and hundreds of years it would have been found.

    It's a dead end....you give your body back to mother nature.

    Well I will. NO casket, no grave... let me feed the earth[/QUOTE]
    Where does that happen? Where do they just leave corpses to rot today? Strangely enough that is what I want too.[/QUOTE]

    Cremated and scattered.

    Why the need to take up space on Mother Earth when no one will give a flying f in 20 years or less.

    I am not that vain.
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    I still can not find the 'like' working so to say, I do.. just did.. 'Like' the way this is going.. I applaud the views expressed..
    I liken the funeral pier ( fire ) as a step forward in dealing with the death of humans.. and the scattering of ashes seems like a fitting final act. It will not be my concern if I am dead..
    I like the answer to 'This ' question given as 'Education' It can put the balance right. I look to education to put religion where it belongs. With the fables and stories of old.. It may take a generation or two to move this thinking forward tho.. So many just accept and care not to question. I look on that as sadness.. a gullibility extreme..

    ~ and yes I did not spell pier ( fire ) correctly It should have been 'pyre'. Did you know that.. because I do not see you correcting me, I see a fool.
    Last edited by astromark; June 10th, 2014 at 03:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I liken the funeral pier .. and the scattering of ashes
    bring your fishing rods and wellies!
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I liken the funeral pier .. and the scattering of ashes
    bring your fishing rods and wellies!
    Not funny, a poor attempt at humour, his first language is not English. So we don't pick fault with spelling nor do we, write sarcasm because of such. It says more about you then it does Astro.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I liken the funeral pier .. and the scattering of ashes
    bring your fishing rods and wellies!
    Not funny, a poor attempt at humour, his first language is not English. So we don't pick fault with spelling nor do we, write sarcasm because of such. It says more about you then it does Astro.
    and what is your language? No really your meaning isn't clear ("nor do we, write sarcasm because of such" ?).
    Perhaps you are from Liverpool but English is not your first language?

    By the way my humour may have been poor but I wasn't poking fun at Astromark- I just found the image amusing as it was written.

    You have 666 posts.Is a joke in order?
    Last edited by geordief; June 9th, 2014 at 10:41 AM.
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    I am a christian. I voluntarily offer myself as a punching bag for all anti-religion debate nuts. XD

    No seriously though, why is it such a problem for people to be religious. Better yet, why is it such a problem for people like me to be religious AND a scientist?
    "only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; and i'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
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    What science do you do? How do you think your religious beliefs affect the way you do your work? Have you been criticized by your colleagues for having a Christian belief?
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    What are you a scientist of?
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    i mean i like science. i'm not a professional scientist because i don't have a job yet, but i'm planning on being a mechanical engineer. It's not that my job conflicts with science, i'm just saying that's the case a lot of the time.
    "only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; and i'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
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    I may have gotten hostile because i just get that impression from threads like this. I explain more about not having a job on my page in the introductions section (i don't like stating my age because people really judge you based on your age).
    "only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; and i'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Centurion View Post
    It's not that my job conflicts with science, i'm just saying that's the case a lot of the time.
    Er...
    i don't have a job yet
    If you don't have a job how can your job conflict with science at all?
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    My job is eating doughnuts but science says that will make me fat

    I worded the job thing wrong, huh?
    "only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; and i'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I still can not find the 'like' working so to say, I do.. just did.. 'Like' the way this is going.. I applaud the views expressed..
    I liken the funeral pier ( fire ) as a step forward in dealing with the death of humans.. and the scattering of ashes seems like a fitting final act. It will not be my concern if I am dead..
    I like the answer to 'This ' question given as 'Education' It can put the balance right. I look to education to put religion where it belongs. With the fables and stories of old.. It may take a generation or two to move this thinking forward tho.. So many just accept and care not to question. I look on that as sadness.. a gullibility extreme..

    ~ and yes I did not spell pier ( fire ) correctly It should have been 'pyre'. Did you know that.. because I do not see you correcting me, I see a fool.
    Could we try and stay on subject.. Just as my English ain't so great.. nor is what '21st centurion' said so wrong.. did you understand him ? that that is the work of languages, yes ?
    ~ I would argue that religious belief will be shunned as mythology as education standards expel the foolishness and expose the raw ignorance of blind faith.. Science and a understanding of observable testable formation of theory will replace the church structures.. fare ?
    ~ and thanks Pavlos..~ LIKE..
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  38. #37  
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    Pavlos

    LIKE
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  39. #38  
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    I am not a Christian. I am a human being.
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  40. #39  
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    To answer your question simply - Yes.

    Religion is outdated and it has been outdated since the 1700s. Most of the notions depicted and professed in Abrahamic religions have been disproved by science, philosophy and the realism.
    “It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.” Charles Darwin
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    No religion does injustice to any woman or a man.
    The witches put to death in Salem would disagree.
    In some religions women are supposed to wear masks. This is to give her security but not at the cost of freedom. one has to sacrifice some freedom to gain security.
    "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin
    In Muslim countries the crime rate is lower than in western countries. Its a question of justice and some sacrifice is necessary. I am sorry to say but God made superior and inferior species. HE also made men and women unequal(i may be sounding sexist).
    They are not the same, but that is not the same as saying they are unequal. Blacks and whites are not the same, but we now acknowledge that they are equals.
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  42. #41  
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  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Understanding of observable testable formation of theory will replace the church structures.. fare ?
    I don't see how, many of its elite deliberately shun the most successful tools that are used by religion to solicit followers. Religions aren't successful because of their science credentials, or even their specific religious doctrines; they are successful because their doctrines are aimed at teaching children, while their organizations provide life enriching social connections for adults--in both cases often framed around advertising their organizations.

    Most science communications is unnessarily stoggy and obtuse (all passive voice, polysyllabic literature deeply behind pay-firewalls for example)--a language barrier that some parts of science are trying to break.
    The reach out to community is generally pointed at the middle class and better rather than the poor; when's the last time you saw a food science show combined with a bonus free meals served by scientist for the homeless? (religious organizations do this sort of thing all the time).
    How many scientist are pushing for a Newton or Darwin/Wallace holiday, replete with displays of their achievements on the town common?
    Science based architecture? Music?
    Standard community meeting times open to everyone for free, often telling an interesting science tale spun for interest for the masses?
    Door to door efforts pushing science education?

    Science isn't coming close to replacing churches.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; June 12th, 2014 at 09:34 AM.
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post

    Could we try and stay on subject.. Just as my English ain't so great.. nor is what '21st centurion' said so wrong.. did you understand him ? that that is the work of languages, yes ?
    ~ I would argue that religious belief will be shunned as mythology as education standards expel the foolishness and expose the raw ignorance of blind faith.. Science and a understanding of observable testable formation of theory will replace the church structures.. fare ?
    ~ If you are to quote me please be careful with your editing of it.. That is what I said of this you quoted does not say all I did..
    ~ and that Sciences and Education are already driving the indoctrinated ignorance down.. The educated have the want to enquire.. any enquirie drives a wedge into the hart of faiths of a religious nature. That there will remain a segment of society that can not be ripped from what they have been told.
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