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Thread: Is religion dated a dinosaur of the past

  1. #1 Is religion dated a dinosaur of the past 
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    It seems to me that the human race has gone mad. Does it not seem strange that with every religious book ever written
    it tells of how you should show love and compassion to all life on earth ,but for some strange reason every day I watch the news individuals seem to use religion to destroy every shread of the meaning of these books, so I have come to the conclusion the books are a waste of time for the human race and the meaning of these books are miss understood, and so is worthless to the human race. So I would like to declare that religion is as dead as dead as the dinosaur. Am I right or am I right as I know I am right. So all you nutty people out there with your child kidnaps your beheading of the innocent your distrust of your neighbour your downgrade of the female species . I laugh at you as you could never understand the meaning of life.
    But science will explain all . Read these books and find the true meaning of life.


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    preaching to the choir


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    Seemed a bit negative - which religious books are these which preach this negativity?
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    Your reasons why religious books are bad and why religion is dead are fallacious, at best. I've heard arguments before trying to debunk religion that did their best to stick to logical, A leads to B leads to C rational. This is not one of those.

    Any evil a religious philosphy or religion is guilty of, a political ideology and politics in general is equally guilty of. The worst offenses committed in the name of religion were almost invariably politically motivated. And yet I imagine you would call me out if I said this is a reason to abolish all governments.
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    This is a quote from Arthur Clarke's scifi book Fountains of Paradise (1979):

    "Belief in God is apparently a psychological artifact of mammalian reproduction."

    Does anyone know what this means?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    This is a quote from Arthur Clarke's scifi book Fountains of Paradise (1979):

    "Belief in God is apparently a psychological artifact of mammalian reproduction."

    Does anyone know what this means?
    It could be he is saying that we are predestined to believe in a higher power, perhaps as a way to encourage sociable behavior? I'm not sure of his logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    This is a quote from Arthur Clarke's scifi book Fountains of Paradise (1979):

    "Belief in God is apparently a psychological artifact of mammalian reproduction."

    Does anyone know what this means?
    It could be he is saying that we are predestined to believe in a higher power, perhaps as a way to encourage sociable behavior? I'm not sure of his logic.
    Thanks. I'm not sure either. Maybe I'll start a new thread with this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    This is a quote from Arthur Clarke's scifi book Fountains of Paradise (1979):

    "Belief in God is apparently a psychological artifact of mammalian reproduction."

    Does anyone know what this means?
    It could be he is saying that we are predestined to believe in a higher power, perhaps as a way to encourage sociable behavior? I'm not sure of his logic.
    Thanks. I'm not sure either. Maybe I'll start a new thread with this.
    Sure. I meant genetically predisposed, too, rather than predestined. Though I suppose predestined to have an innate belief in G-d could be possible if there is a G-d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Seemed a bit negative - which religious books are these which preach this negativity?
    The books preach love but the people hate.
    Don't some of the books preach hate as well? I think the OP is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Seemed a bit negative - which religious books are these which preach this negativity?
    The books preach love but the people hate.
    Don't some of the books preach hate as well? I think the OP is wrong.

    Sure most religious text preach love but if they anything like the Abrahamic text it's only once one gets past far more examples of pure hatred by genocides, ethnic cleansing, curses, punishing descendents for the crimes of their fathers, superstitions, overt bigotry and extreme punishments for harmless and normal human behaviors.... Of course modern interpretations and followers generally don't even know their own text, or invent all sorts of strange and incoherent arguments trying to rationalise the messages (e.g., "they are metaphors," ignoring that for thousands of years they were literal) to save their own sanities--but in the end of the day those passages cling like stalking horses for ignorance, war and general misery.
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    Probably the reason the Bible contradicts itself is because it wants to appeal to every possible agenda. Just like a politician running for public office, it goes around making contradictory promises to groups with contradicting goals.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Probably the reason the Bible contradicts itself is . . .
    . . . because it was written by different men and at different times. People have different viewpoints and agendas. It's bound to be contradictory.
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    Lynx_Fox and Beer w/Straw like this.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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    Oh, I had thought you posted this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Probably the reason the Bible contradicts itself is . . .
    . . . because it was written by different men and at different times. People have different viewpoints and agendas. It's bound to be contradictory.
    I agree dated meanings of many years ago should be left in the past ,religion needs to move on
    and the preachers of this dated information should be educated, and let the truth of science guide them forward
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    Is religion dated a dinosaur of the past

    No, it's less dated than the genus Homo. It helps explain humanity if you can look beyond your personal values and appreciate the emergence and evolution of groups for their own sake. If what's best for a group differs from what's best for individuals, would group-beliefs and individual-beliefs agree? If no, then can you live with the ambivalence of being both, like, ape and human?
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    What is religion?
    dated I think
    so what is religion
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    The the original question - I would say yes, religion is a dated dinosaur of the past and should be eradicated.

    The sheer volume of atrocity and human suffering committed by religious fnantics throughout history is shameful.
    I've just been reading the biography of Sir Robert Boyle, the author made the point that in the late 1600's the plague and the spanish inquisition accounted for 1 out of every 200 humans on the planet.
    If there had been a few more zealous psycotic serial killers murdering folks in Gods name , the human race would have suffered an extinction level event of our own making.

    As Paul Dirac said it was abundantly clear to him that throughout history the church and the state have conspired together to maintain power over people. It's all about power and supression of knowledge. The Vatican is sitting on masses of historic scientific papers. Some of Galileo's papers should be in the public domain but if you are granted permission to peruse a particular page of one of these documents you're not allowed to touch the artifact and other pages are screend off with linen cloths.

    Bigotry is endemic in religion, hate is preached from pulpits of all denominations. Then there's all the zoonie pseudo churches that are just thinly disguised for profit operations [ Mormons (racist), Scientologists etc ] I find it shameful that folks turn a blind eye to the treasure house of human scientific knowledge in favour of thinking its all myths and fantasy.
    Most of you reading this will own a TV. Now I don't know exactly how a TV works - but I don't as a result assume that it's magic.

    The human race needs to grow up. How come it's OK at some point in your life to accept that Santa Claus doesn't exist but the God myth persists?
    The last 2 funerals I attended were conducted by Humanists and they were perfectly beautiful and very touching ceremonies with no mention of the 'G' word.

    Religion should follow the fate of the dinosaurs and become extinct.
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    No; religion is not dated.
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    I've dated it on occasions, but marriage is strictly out of the question. It just tries to be too over controlling. I won't stand for that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No; religion is not dated.
    Oh yes it is.. Anything that can be dated to over a thousand years is dated.. I think 1,000 years or more is dated..
    Most of the biblical events are of a time greater than the birth of this Christ fellow.
    ~ and we put that as about 2,000 years ago don't we ?
    The point being made is correct. The concept of religions is either corrupt or dated..
    The addition of the 'a' before; As in` Is religion as dated as a dinosaur'.. YES it is..
    ~You do not need religious doctrines to know whats right and wrong..
    No man of science can be content with the Book of Genesis.. We can actually know It's just wrong.. Read it.
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    Astromark, Bible based beliefs are not the only religions in the world. There are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Paganism, and more that are not based on the Bible. None of them have ever caused a fraction of the wars and outrageously cruel behaviours that the Bible believers have. Most Bible believers have probably never even read the entire series of books in it, but a great deal of it is mean and terrible and useless. There are bright spots I think in it, though. The book of Job is interesting, some of the words ascribed to Jesus are interesting and border on Buddhism, and St. Paul wrote some cool stuff in Corinthians 13, verses 1-13.

    PS - too funny that this was my 666th post, huh? (Check out the book of Revelation),,,
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    Your post uses the number 13 twice, in addition to the number of the beast. That is well bad. I would hide under the sofa today if I were you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No; religion is not dated.
    Oh yes it is.. Anything that can be dated to over a thousand years is dated.. I think 1,000 years or more is dated..
    Most of the biblical events are of a time greater than the birth of this Christ fellow.
    ~ and we put that as about 2,000 years ago don't we ?
    The point being made is correct. The concept of religions is either corrupt or dated..
    The addition of the 'a' before; As in` Is religion as dated as a dinosaur'.. YES it is..
    ~You do not need religious doctrines to know whats right and wrong..
    No man of science can be content with the Book of Genesis.. We can actually know It's just wrong.. Read it.
    You don't have to read it as a pure history or science textbook, even as a religious person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Astromark, Bible based beliefs are not the only religions in the world. There are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Paganism, and more that are not based on the Bible. None of them have ever caused a fraction of the wars and outrageously cruel behaviours that the Bible believers have. Most Bible believers have probably never even read the entire series of books in it, but a great deal of it is mean and terrible and useless. There are bright spots I think in it, though. The book of Job is interesting, some of the words ascribed to Jesus are interesting and border on Buddhism, and St. Paul wrote some cool stuff in Corinthians 13, verses 1-13.

    PS - too funny that this was my 666th post, huh? (Check out the book of Revelation),,,
    I must have missed what Mayflow did wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Astromark, Bible based beliefs are not the only religions in the world. There are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Paganism, and more that are not based on the Bible. None of them have ever caused a fraction of the wars and outrageously cruel behaviours that the Bible believers have. Most Bible believers have probably never even read the entire series of books in it, but a great deal of it is mean and terrible and useless. There are bright spots I think in it, though. The book of Job is interesting, some of the words ascribed to Jesus are interesting and border on Buddhism, and St. Paul wrote some cool stuff in Corinthians 13, verses 1-13.

    PS - too funny that this was my 666th post, huh? (Check out the book of Revelation),,,
    I must have missed what Mayflow did wrong.

    She posted woo in the Physics subforum.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
    Astromark, Bible based beliefs are not the only religions in the world. There are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Paganism, and more that are not based on the Bible. None of them have ever caused a fraction of the wars and outrageously cruel behaviours that the Bible believers have. Most Bible believers have probably never even read the entire series of books in it, but a great deal of it is mean and terrible and useless. There are bright spots I think in it, though. The book of Job is interesting, some of the words ascribed to Jesus are interesting and border on Buddhism, and St. Paul wrote some cool stuff in Corinthians 13, verses 1-13.

    PS - too funny that this was my 666th post, huh? (Check out the book of Revelation),,,
    I must have missed what Mayflow did wrong.

    She posted woo in the Physics subforum.
    That deserves a lynching.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No; religion is not dated.
    Oh yes it is.. Anything that can be dated to over a thousand years is dated.. I think 1,000 years or more is dated..
    Most of the biblical events are of a time greater than the birth of this Christ fellow.
    ~ and we put that as about 2,000 years ago don't we ?
    The point being made is correct. The concept of religions is either corrupt or dated..
    The addition of the 'a' before; As in` Is religion as dated as a dinosaur'.. YES it is..
    ~You do not need religious doctrines to know whats right and wrong..
    No man of science can be content with the Book of Genesis.. We can actually know It's just wrong.. Read it.
    ~ I return to see 'Mayflow' wanting to argue some point.. That I have no idea of.. or do I care..
    I have no prefrence of which religion you pick.. 'Dated' is a correct term. Like the dinosaurs.. dead.
    That a person of some religious faith tells me it's not literally correct only strengthens my resolve..
    I see that 'Some' wisdom is apparent.. if you weed out all the rubbish..
    ~ When you can produce on demand some proofs of spirit or beliefs.. Please do so.
    Until that moment arrives I am correct, and you are not. ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No; religion is not dated.
    Oh yes it is.. Anything that can be dated to over a thousand years is dated.. I think 1,000 years or more is dated..
    Most of the biblical events are of a time greater than the birth of this Christ fellow.
    ~ and we put that as about 2,000 years ago don't we ?
    The point being made is correct. The concept of religions is either corrupt or dated..
    The addition of the 'a' before; As in` Is religion as dated as a dinosaur'.. YES it is..
    ~You do not need religious doctrines to know whats right and wrong..
    No man of science can be content with the Book of Genesis.. We can actually know It's just wrong.. Read it.
    ~ I return to see 'Mayflow' wanting to argue some point.. That I have no idea of.. or do I care..
    I have no prefrence of which religion you pick.. 'Dated' is a correct term. Like the dinosaurs.. dead.
    That a person of some religious faith tells me it's not literally correct only strengthens my resolve..
    I see that 'Some' wisdom is apparent.. if you weed out all the rubbish..
    ~ When you can produce on demand some proofs of spirit or beliefs.. Please do so.
    Until that moment arrives I am correct, and you are not. ...
    There were some subjects that I am not allowed to talk about on the forum. We'll talk face to face without restriction.
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    Im curious. Is dinosaur ever mentioned in any religious book? Or are they (the religious believers/creationist) on their way updating their books so that they could escape the questions of the doubt of the future?

    "So I would like to declare that religion is as dead as dead as the dinosaur."
    Not at least here, Im living in the Philippines and religious belief here is as shining bright as the sun. Its hard being "different" alone here.
    Last edited by xingha; July 27th, 2014 at 07:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    It seems to me that the human race has gone mad. Does it not seem strange that with every religious book ever written
    it tells of how you should show love and compassion to all life on earth ,but for some strange reason every day I watch the news individuals seem to use religion to destroy every shread of the meaning of these books, so I have come to the conclusion the books are a waste of time for the human race and the meaning of these books are miss understood, and so is worthless to the human race. So I would like to declare that religion is as dead as dead as the dinosaur. Am I right or am I right as I know I am right. So all you nutty people out there with your child kidnaps your beheading of the innocent your distrust of your neighbour your downgrade of the female species . I laugh at you as you could never understand the meaning of life.
    But science will explain all . Read these books and find the true meaning of life.
    The US Congress found some years after the US independence that religion was beneficial to society. There is the record that around two centuries ago the US Congress ordered the buying of thousands of bibles to be distributed so people can have an easy access to this religious book.

    Regardless of how much effort the opponents made against religion, the majority of the world's population are believers of a god. Between these people are included recognized scientist as well.

    My opinion is that religion will last until the last human ceases to exists on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritchieritchie View Post
    The US Congress found some years after the US independence that religion was beneficial to society.
    Source please.

    There is the record that around two centuries ago the US Congress ordered the buying of thousands of bibles to be distributed so people can have an easy access to this religious book.
    This is false.
    (Given your introductory claim "I'm a skeptic person ... I go to the root of this something to check its veracity", that's a pretty poor showing).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritchieritchie View Post
    The US Congress found some years after the US independence that religion was beneficial to society.
    Source please.

    There is the record that around two centuries ago the US Congress ordered the buying of thousands of bibles to be distributed so people can have an easy access to this religious book.
    This is false.
    (Given your introductory claim "I'm a skeptic person ... I go to the root of this something to check its veracity", that's a pretty poor showing).
    I'm going to be fair about your position, and I will give you a link of one of the best sources found online that was posted in order to contradict the "story" of the US congress buying 20,000 bibles to be distributed to the people.

    http://www.liarsforjesus.com/downloads/LFJ_chap_1.pdf

    The problem for the religious right authors who claim that the
    Bibles were imported is that, although this motion passed, it was not
    a final vote to import the Bibles. It was a merely a vote on replacing
    the original plan of importing the type and paper with the committee’s
    proposal of importing already printed Bibles. In other words, they
    were only voting on what they were going to be voting on. The vote
    on the motion was close – seven states voted yes; six voted no. A second
    motion was then made to pass a resolution to import the Bibles,
    but this was postponed and never brought up again. No Bibles were
    imported. This little problem is solved in the religious right history
    CONGRESS AND THE BIBLE 7
    4.
    Studies in Bibliography, Vol. 3, (Charlottesville, VA: University Press of Virginia, 1950-
    1951), 275-276.
    5. Worthington C. Ford, ed.,
    Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789, vol. 8,
    (Washington D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1907), 734



    Notice that the "fallacy" that the US Congress bought the bibles is proved to be as such, but also notice that the intent to buy the bibles is a fact. And the intent of buying the bibles was originated by the perception of how beneficial was religion to society.

    I avoided the posting of the several links about this topic of the US Congress and the 20,000 bibles because it won't be accurate information. The best information about this past event is found in the link posted above, ironically from a source that directly or indirectly goes against religion.
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    I see a side tracking issue.. I have no care that the US senate ordered to purchase bibles.. It was a foolish idea.
    and could be blamed for retarding the US education system decades.. False doctrine is false doctrine.
    Unfortunately so many seemingly well educated people do not bother to apply the scientific idiom..
    To test and question.. research and query all you hear..

    ~ Is there life after death. Any answer other than no is ridiculous.. That people are educated and yet do not see this as pivotal worries me.. Religions are weapons of denial. Used for the suppression of free will and choice.. Power over people at whatever the cost.. fear.
    Climbing out of a hole filled with ignorance and superstitions.. Education and the doctrines of scientific revue.. are our way forward..
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I see a side tracking issue.. I have no care that the US senate ordered to purchase bibles.. It was a foolish idea.
    and could be blamed for retarding the US education system decades.. False doctrine is false doctrine.
    Unfortunately so many seemingly well educated people do not bother to apply the scientific idiom..
    To test and question.. research and query all you hear..

    ~ Is there life after death. Any answer other than no is ridiculous.. That people are educated and yet do not see this as pivotal worries me.. Religions are weapons of denial. Used for the suppression of free will and choice.. Power over people at whatever the cost.. fear.
    Climbing out of a hole filled with ignorance and superstitions.. Education and the doctrines of scientific revue.. are our way forward..
    What worries me is the tendency in some societies to resort to things like drug trafficking and its associated gang warfare. Then killing for organ transfers or even more subtly where the organs removed under false pretenses. Too bad about what happens to the donor missing a kidney for the rest of their life.

    Prostitution, child abuse and pornography could be rife, (anything goes as long as there is money in it).

    I can't imagine how a true believer with thoughts of an afterlife would involve themselves in those activities.

    If you could get a moral society, well policed (why do you need the police?), maybe your idea will work but it could turn to custard as well.
    You might not be a believer in an afterlife but you must be a believer in an ideal society.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; July 27th, 2014 at 04:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritchieritchie View Post
    Notice that the "fallacy" that the US Congress bought the bibles is proved to be as such, but also notice that the intent to buy the bibles is a fact.
    Really?
    Let me quote from your own quoted passage:
    "it was not a final vote to import the Bibles. .... In other words, they were only voting on what they were going to be voting on."
    In other words: it didn't happen.

    And the intent of buying the bibles was originated by the perception of how beneficial was religion to society.
    Unsupported assumption.
    There are numerous possible reasons why that decision may have been taken (it was a popular idea, it could have garnered votes, it was "the done thing" at the time...), your "reason" is, so far, merely a claim.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I see a side tracking issue.. I have no care that the US senate ordered to purchase bibles.. It was a foolish idea.
    and could be blamed for retarding the US education system decades.. False doctrine is false doctrine.
    Unfortunately so many seemingly well educated people do not bother to apply the scientific idiom..
    To test and question.. research and query all you hear..

    ~ Is there life after death. Any answer other than no is ridiculous.. That people are educated and yet do not see this as pivotal worries me.. Religions are weapons of denial. Used for the suppression of free will and choice.. Power over people at whatever the cost.. fear.
    Climbing out of a hole filled with ignorance and superstitions.. Education and the doctrines of scientific revue.. are our way forward..
    What worries me is the tendency in some societies to resort to things like drug trafficking and its associated gang warfare. Then killing for organ transfers or even more subtly where the organs removed under false pretenses. Too bad about what happens to the donor missing a kidney for the rest of their life.

    Prostitution, child abuse and pornography could be rife, (anything goes as long as there is money in it).

    I can't imagine how a true believer with thoughts of an afterlife would involve themselves in those activities.

    If you could get a moral society, well policed (why do you need the police?), maybe your idea will work but it could turn to custard as well.
    You might not be a believer in an afterlife but you must be a believer in an ideal society.
    ~~ You started with... " What worries me.." and off you went... and summed it up with 'you can not imagine religious people doing such as'...
    I come back at you with..'How naive are you ?.. Remember John Jones and the 'divanian cult'.. well I do. In the name of religious nut bar zealots.. There's ugly moments.. and lots of them..
    What was the name of those crazies that thought God was riding on Hall Bop.. I have never found stability and good practice a realm of the religious.. They also did a mass killing.. Oh yea..stable.. Yea-right.
    Claiming religious doctrines for the teaching of moral codes.. no. Good standards of education can be all you need..
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I see a side tracking issue.. I have no care that the US senate ordered to purchase bibles.. It was a foolish idea.
    and could be blamed for retarding the US education system decades.. False doctrine is false doctrine.
    Unfortunately so many seemingly well educated people do not bother to apply the scientific idiom..
    To test and question.. research and query all you hear..

    ~ Is there life after death. Any answer other than no is ridiculous.. That people are educated and yet do not see this as pivotal worries me.. Religions are weapons of denial. Used for the suppression of free will and choice.. Power over people at whatever the cost.. fear.
    Climbing out of a hole filled with ignorance and superstitions.. Education and the doctrines of scientific revue.. are our way forward..
    What worries me is the tendency in some societies to resort to things like drug trafficking and its associated gang warfare. Then killing for organ transfers or even more subtly where the organs removed under false pretenses. Too bad about what happens to the donor missing a kidney for the rest of their life.

    Prostitution, child abuse and pornography could be rife, (anything goes as long as there is money in it).

    I can't imagine how a true believer with thoughts of an afterlife would involve themselves in those activities.

    If you could get a moral society, well policed (why do you need the police?), maybe your idea will work but it could turn to custard as well.
    You might not be a believer in an afterlife but you must be a believer in an ideal society.
    ~~ You started with... " What worries me.." and off you went... and summed it up with 'you can not imagine religious people doing such as'...
    I come back at you with..'How naive are you ?.. Remember John Jones and the 'divanian cult'.. well I do. In the name of religious nut bar zealots.. There's ugly moments.. and lots of them..
    What was the name of those crazies that thought God was riding on Hall Bop.. I have never found stability and good practice a realm of the religious.. They also did a mass killing.. Oh yea..stable.. Yea-right.
    Claiming religious doctrines for the teaching of moral codes.. no. Good standards of education can be all you need..
    Yes some of those groups can get a bit of a persecution complex and take fright - commit suicide or whatever as in Waco. That was A few isolated cases compared to the enormous operations by crime syndicates. Killing yourself or killing others for profit, I think they are vastly different.
    Where in the world do you think your idea is working the best? Is it Sweden or Finland? Russia and China are both fairly secular but is the education the people getting the truth or are they being educated on disinformation?

    Even in NZ we are having trouble with gangs and criminals nearly being as organised as the police. Do you think we are in an ideal country?

    Can you really believe this report? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYTEy91-vA
    Last edited by Robittybob1; July 27th, 2014 at 11:47 PM.
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    Yes we are in a ideal country.. It's better here than you think.. No that report is not factually true..
    That a good education can be so abused.. it's wast full.
    I will not tolerate as fact that religion is vital or even helpful in education. It is simply not required.
    ~ The scientific principal would be a finer servant..
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    ~ I have made a observation I am not proud of.. Related to this subject...
    That religious faiths as followed, is a dead as the dinosaurs activity we should grow out of..
    We do actually know better than to hold onto what is obviously not true.. and that is not a invitation to argue. It's a fact.
    Any study of the science of the cosmos soon shows what a fools folly religion is.. It may not be dead, but it should be buried..
    and exposed for what it is.. A man made concept of belief in a supreme deity.. and creation..
    but to my uncomfortable observation;
    ~ That we breed prolifically, the wrong people.. and that the well educated and hard working achievers of western societies do not match the birth rate figures of the poor underclasses of societies.. globally. We may be breeding ourselves down the evolutionary slide..
    People that have no will to ask the big questions. People that have no drive to improve them selves.. THIS I worry about..
    and I will add this... that if it takes a religious slant to guide them to improve. So be it.. Please comment..
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ I have made a observation I am not proud of.. Related to this subject...
    That religious faiths as followed, is a dead as the dinosaurs activity we should grow out of..
    We do actually know better than to hold onto what is obviously not true.. and that is not a invitation to argue. It's a fact.
    Any study of the science of the cosmos soon shows what a fools folly religion is.. It may not be dead, but it should be buried..
    and exposed for what it is.. A man made concept of belief in a supreme deity.. and creation..
    but to my uncomfortable observation;
    ~ That we breed prolifically, the wrong people.. and that the well educated and hard working achievers of western societies do not match the birth rate figures of the poor underclasses of societies.. globally. We may be breeding ourselves down the evolutionary slide..
    People that have no will to ask the big questions. People that have no drive to improve them selves.. THIS I worry about..
    and I will add this... that if it takes a religious slant to guide them to improve. So be it.. Please comment..
    What would be the ideal religion then, considering the old ones are dead and buried?
    What did you want this new religion to do exactly?
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    [QUOTE=Robittybob1;

    What would be the ideal religion then, considering the old ones are dead and buried?
    What did you want this new religion to do exactly?[/QUOTE]

    All I am saying there is just that if it takes a religious initiative to motivate the want to better ourselves...so be it..
    I am conceding that religious doctrines have guided some to better things..
    Just not for me....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    What would be the ideal religion then, considering the old ones are dead and buried?
    Today as yesterday people will get killed in the name of Islam, Judaism and (probably) Christianity which will prove that monotheism is not dead but it has been killing people for centuries. The reason is always in the warped interpretation of ancient texts written by persons unknown.
    Does any government of any country challenge religion? Not until they do so will it start to die out. I can't see that happening anytime soon so it is up to individuals to do the challenging. But that's sometimes scary. I challenged Islam once and was immediately issued with a death threat. I challenged a Jehovah and was told I would burn in hell. Examples like that prove to me that it is religion that is evil and not the folks who try to avoid it.
    The ideal religion has to be science. We need to throw aside all the religious and political ideologies and pursue the goal of total knowledge as far as life and the universe is concerned.
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    ~ I'm with ox.. Praise be to the idioms of scientific revue.. ♪ Halaluya ♪ ♫
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ I'm with ox.. Praise be to the idioms of scientific revue.. ♪ Halaluya ♪ ♫
    Have you been following the thread on Aquatic Apes? Look science would end up in-fighting as much as religion has done.
    One group would get called pseudo-scientists and the "pseudos" will want to dismember the "scientific pontificators".
    Happy fighting in the name of Science!
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    Naa, I have not looked at that one.. and will leave it alone.. I am learning you can not help some..
    They have faulty wiring... ( but now you mentioned it... tomorrow ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    This is a quote from Arthur Clarke's scifi book Fountains of Paradise (1979):

    "Belief in God is apparently a psychological artifact of mammalian reproduction."

    Does anyone know what this means?
    IMO. belief in gods started very early in the hominid psyche. We can see this today in the aggresive defensive behavior of an alpha chimp in a thunder storm. He will run around with a stick, beating the bushes, threatening the "unseen" enemy that makes loud noises accompanied by flashing lights and makes him wet and miserable.

    Later these "unseen powerful forces" were given names (gods of mythology) and still later the concept of a single "unseen powerful force" was refined to monotheism.
    "Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind" (W4U)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    What would be the ideal religion then, considering the old ones are dead and buried?
    Today as yesterday people will get killed in the name of Islam, Judaism and (probably) Christianity which will prove that monotheism is not dead but it has been killing people for centuries. The reason is always in the warped interpretation of ancient texts written by persons unknown.
    Does any government of any country challenge religion? Not until they do so will it start to die out. I can't see that happening anytime soon so it is up to individuals to do the challenging. But that's sometimes scary. I challenged Islam once and was immediately issued with a death threat. I challenged a Jehovah and was told I would burn in hell. Examples like that prove to me that it is religion that is evil and not the folks who try to avoid it.
    The ideal religion has to be science. We need to throw aside all the religious and political ideologies and pursue the goal of total knowledge as far as life and the universe is concerned.
    I agree and of course that was also the reason for the "establishment" (separation) clause.
    "Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind" (W4U)
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    To all of you Christians who defend the Old Testament:

    "It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

    This book was written by HUMANS. It's extremely obvious. No all-powerful, all-knowing being would be this self-contradictory, petty, violent, and well to put it mildly STUPID.

    This book was in fact written by a bunch of primitive nomadic tribes people who borrowed most of the stories from other, equally human sources.
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    There is a post I would 'Like' to like... and some great points scored.. and made.
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    I suppose that if you are credited with creating it then there is no problem with you tearing it down. I think creator gods are a religious enigma. They do exactly what is expected of them....create. However no one should be asserting that creator gods are perfect. They destroy their own creations at alarming rates as RobinM illustrated. Why would they do this? One might have to think that they're not satisfied with their product, what else could there be? The creating label allows the creator to destroy and we seem to be OK with that, it's like a rite of passage, an entitlement.

    Still, if you believe in a creator then one must ask who created the creator? This seems to be an argument that no one likes to confront. If I were commissioned to invent a machine to perform a specific way and it didn't, then I don't think anyone would care if I dismantled it completely and built a newer improved version. If I never get the machine to do what I want it to do then how long before I get replaced? Is this how creator religion works, one god's lack of success means he/she/it gets the boot to make way for another? Who is actually doing the replacing, who is recreating the creator?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Still, if you believe in a creator then one must ask who created the creator? This seems to be an argument that no one likes to confront.
    You ask many questions. I'll stick with the above one. When still a young child, I asked that question. The reply was to take a top of a can opener cut top. 'You see! Follow the edge. It has no beginning or end, just like God.' That is pretty interesting for the symbolism -- a sharp, circular answer. Feynman mentions that we can never really know all, only chip away at the situation, put a few pieces of the puzzle in place. Personally, I like the multiple universes approach. Everything is then possible.

    Getting back to the Religion is a dated dinosaur of the past thread original question, no, AFIAK it is not. It A) fulfills a fundamental and deep psychological need B) has had thousands of years of tinkering to fulfill that to great sociological effect. Religion is great to give hope when there is none, to give ever lasting life (or so they say) when there is views of soon enough bleak annihilation.

    My favorite is the what was was on one PBS some two decades ago about the Yuan dynasty idea of controlling inflation. Namely, the government incredibly (apparently, the documentary flatly stated) wanted people to burn their money to show their desire to control and defeat inflation. Sounds like Gerald Ford's Whip Inflation Now (WIN) circa 1975. Anyway, predictably it was wildly unpopular. I can believe it, for Yuan Dynasty did indeed soon fall due to rampant printing of paper money and hyper inflation. Anyway, the documentary said that that after the Ming took over, religious temples dusted off the idea, offered cut rates of a penny on the dollar for real money.

    Well, sort of. This money is only good in hell or heaven, which ever your ancestors or recently departed loved ones happen to reside at. Now since you can not be sure sometimes, buy and burn both. I have seen this hell money, some printed partly in English for Overseas Chinese with a Chinese Devil on the faceplate. No Joke. It is very popular to this day, people also burning paper Mercedes Benz, paper Gucci watches, etc. as well, blessed by a priest to become real where ever the where ever the departed has ended up.

    And by doing this, you can avoid them haunting you on ghost month in August, where the skies are grey from all the paper money being burnt in many Hong Kong, Taipei, or Singapore neighborhoods.

    I would like to see verification in research papers of this background (as for the present day, google it an read the wikipedia articles, etc.) historical background. But with religion, speak the lingo and the rubes keep buying. There is the rub, it is not a dinosaur except in the sense of birds. Religion, like birds from dinosaurs, adapted, are everywhere, and may outlast us scientific types so our society may become like Landru in Star Trek. Do not expect it to disappear, instead understand how religion has evolved to morph into almost any situation to excellent meme effect. This is not just the fertility cult nowadays, and IMO religion has come a long way from that 20,000 year long faith:

    Mother goddess - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There are exceptions. Using religion to fly a hijacked 747 into buildings deserves total condemnation, as does very adaptable and evolved viruses like the Children of God cult (flirty fishing sex favors-for-listening-to-my-religious-speech aside, it was a very weird group in many ways from what is read). But religion might go underground only to erupt again in a much more acceptable form. Bet horoscopes and Astrology will be around for ages as well, at least until we become into computer form and really do achieve immortality. But mind my words, one of the best ways to see religion is a very evolving type of mind control memes. Trying to rid the world of viruses or other ubiquitous issues is a hopeless tasks -- seawater alone being a complete soup of viruses I recall. You will see religion for a long time to come, rising Phoenix like from the ashes when ever times become though for it. I happen to be immune, that or lack the God gene, but do not discount its draw.
    Last edited by jjmckane; August 5th, 2014 at 12:43 AM.
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    Q: What’s the difference between a capitalist fairy tale and a Marxist fairy tale?
    A: A capitalist fairy tale begins, “Once upon a time, there was…” A Marxist fairy tale begins, “Some day, there will be…”
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    I
    Still, if you believe in a creator then one must ask who created the creator? This seems to be an argument that no one likes to confront.
    I'm an atheist and I believe that science has and will give us far deeper insights, than religion, into reality.
    I'm not a scientist but surely the above argument (that is the idea of an infinite regress) can also be applied to science. We may not know what, if anything, happened before the BB but we are allowed to speculate and already there are scientists putting forward hypotheses.
    Science may never provide the answer, but still we may wonder what happened before and then what happened before that event.
    If one states the BB to be the first event then I suppose a religious individual could argue God was the prime mover or first cause of the Universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Still, if you believe in a creator then one must ask who created the creator? This seems to be an argument that no one likes to confront. If I were commissioned to invent a machine to perform a specific way and it didn't, then I don't think anyone would care if I dismantled it completely and built a newer improved version. If I never get the machine to do what I want it to do then how long before I get replaced? Is this how creator religion works, one god's lack of success means he/she/it gets the boot to make way for another? Who is actually doing the replacing, who is recreating the creator?
    Q: Who created the creator?
    A: MAN did. *
    The only other explanation is that God was a self-made man.
    God cannot be he/she/it when clearly there is a mystery to be solved which up until now has not been solved by religion or science. But they both agree that the universe came out of nothing, and both could be wrong.
    Perhaps God then is not a creator but a recreator. We could be living in a recycled universe.

    * In so doing it was important in order to defend and preserve your tribe that you were the chosen people of God while the others are inferior or subhuman. The heathen scum must be defeated either in war or in argument.
    If that sounds a bit extreme then consider how that still operates. Jew and Gentile. Arian and Athanasian, Catholic and Protestant, Hindu and Muslim, Sunni and Shia.
    We do at least have diplomacy today.
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