Notices
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 300 of 806
Like Tree275Likes

Thread: Why DO you beieve in God?

  1. #201  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie?
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Maybe Bird Woman and Coyote are waiting to eat your soul when you die for not worshipping them.

    No way!
    Because...?
    We are not talking about things that happened in prehistoric times, but during times of recorded history.
     

  2. #202  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    We are not talking about things that happened in prehistoric times, but during times of recorded history.
    Whut?

    I'll quote my own post (about 5 above this one):
    There may have been a person called Jesus, but - and this is where your "logic" falls down - there is no evidence whatsoever that the stories about him are ture.
    Even IF he did perform the supposed miracles claimed for him, that STILL wouldn't be evidence for god - unless you can rule out pixies, fairies and whatever other supernatural things I can call to mind.
    babe likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  3. #203  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    We are not talking about things that happened in prehistoric times, but during times of recorded history.
    Whut?

    I'll quote my own post (about 5 above this one):
    There may have been a person called Jesus, but - and this is where your "logic" falls down - there is no evidence whatsoever that the stories about him are ture.
    Even IF he did perform the supposed miracles claimed for him, that STILL wouldn't be evidence for god - unless you can rule out pixies, fairies and whatever other supernatural things I can call to mind.
    Definition of prehistory: Prehistory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Prehistory (meaning "before history", or "before knowledge acquired by investigation", from theLatin word for "before," præ, andhistoria) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. Prehistory refers to the period of human existence before the availability of those written records with which recorded history begins.[1] More broadly, it can refer to all the time preceding human existence and the invention of writing.
    So things that happen 2,000 plus years ago isn't prehistoric. Do you agree about that?
     

  4. #204  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    We are not talking about things that happened in prehistoric times, but during times of recorded history.
    Whut?

    I'll quote my own post (about 5 above this one):
    There may have been a person called Jesus, but - and this is where your "logic" falls down - there is no evidence whatsoever that the stories about him are ture.
    Even IF he did perform the supposed miracles claimed for him, that STILL wouldn't be evidence for god - unless you can rule out pixies, fairies and whatever other supernatural things I can call to mind.
    Definition of prehistory: Prehistory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Prehistory (meaning "before history", or "before knowledge acquired by investigation", from theLatin word for "before," præ, andhistoria) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. Prehistory refers to the period of human existence before the availability of those written records with which recorded history begins.[1] More broadly, it can refer to all the time preceding human existence and the invention of writing.
    So things that happen 2,000 plus years ago isn't prehistoric. Do you agree about that?
    Its an irrelevant digression. There is no empirical evidence at all for a person named Jesus (or similar) having existed.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
     

  5. #205  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    We are not talking about things that happened in prehistoric times, but during times of recorded history.
    Whut?

    I'll quote my own post (about 5 above this one):
    There may have been a person called Jesus, but - and this is where your "logic" falls down - there is no evidence whatsoever that the stories about him are ture.
    Even IF he did perform the supposed miracles claimed for him, that STILL wouldn't be evidence for god - unless you can rule out pixies, fairies and whatever other supernatural things I can call to mind.
    Definition of prehistory: Prehistory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Prehistory (meaning "before history", or "before knowledge acquired by investigation", from theLatin word for "before," præ, andhistoria) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. Prehistory refers to the period of human existence before the availability of those written records with which recorded history begins.[1] More broadly, it can refer to all the time preceding human existence and the invention of writing.
    So things that happen 2,000 plus years ago isn't prehistoric. Do you agree about that?
    Its an irrelevant digression. There is no empirical evidence at all for a person named Jesus (or similar) having existed.
    So do you agree that it isn't a prehistoric event or prehistoric time that we are talking about?
     

  6. #206  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So things that happen 2,000 plus years ago isn't prehistoric. Do you agree about that?
    Yes.
    And so what?
    Oh wait, you're now going to tell me that:
    A) the entire mythology underpinning that of Christians isn't prehistoric (i.e. that it's not actually a collection of tales passed on verbally before writing was invented), and
    B) that the New Testament is an exact record.

    This is, as Paleoichneum noted, a diversion and an irrelevance.

    Just has a thought: maybe you decide your religion based merely on its newness. In which take a look at scientology...
    Or, again, can you tell me why you dismiss Greek mythology, since the Trojan war - and therefore its heroes (and the gods thus involved) - was "recorded history".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  7. #207  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So things that happen 2,000 plus years ago isn't prehistoric. Do you agree about that?
    Yes.
    And so what?
    Oh wait, you're now going to tell me that:
    A) the entire mythology underpinning that of Christians isn't prehistoric (i.e. that it's not actually a collection of tales passed on verbally before writing was invented), and
    B) that the New Testament is an exact record.

    This is, as Paleoichneum noted, a diversion and an irrelevance.

    Just has a thought: maybe you decide your religion based merely on its newness. In which take a look at scientology...
    Or, again, can you tell me why you dismiss Greek mythology, since the Trojan war - and therefore its heroes (and the gods thus involved) - was "recorded history".
    No it was you who brought in the irrelevant comparison of religions that were based on prehistoric happenings.
    So what I am thinking is maybe you could find me some old record where they actually say that the Christians were basing their beliefs on a nonexistent person?
    What is the earliest that anyone recorded says "Jesus was non existent" as you do?
     

  8. #208  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No it was you who brought in the irrelevant comparison of religions that were based on prehistoric happenings.
    Whut?
    Why are they "irrelevant"?
    Simply because they weren't written down at the time?
    (And, like I said, the underpinnings of the Christian mythology ARE prehistoric).

    So what I am thinking is maybe you could find me some old record where they actually say that the Christians were basing their beliefs on a nonexistent person?
    Um, it doesn't work like that.
    Since YOU are claiming "Jesus" was real and did those things it's up to YOU to show that is so.

    What is the earliest that anyone recorded says "Jesus was non existent" as you do?
    You really must learn to read. Honestly, it'll make your life easier. You won't have to ask questions about statements that weren't actually made.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  9. #209  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Sir Ducky Is CORRECT!

    THERE IS NO "PROOF" that Jesus really existed.

    The Bible is a book, written by men and most of it stories with foundation of "proof".
    Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie? No way!
    Yes.
     

  10. #210  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie?
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Maybe Bird Woman and Coyote are waiting to eat your soul when you die for not worshipping them.

    No way!
    Because...?
    I think it I just stories, with some truth, but overall, ficticious!
    samsmoot likes this.
     

  11. #211  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    No it was you who brought in the irrelevant comparison of religions that were based on prehistoric happenings.
    Whut?
    Why are they "irrelevant"?
    Simply because they weren't written down at the time?
    (And, like I said, the underpinnings of the Christian mythology ARE prehistoric).

    So what I am thinking is maybe you could find me some old record where they actually say that the Christians were basing their beliefs on a nonexistent person?
    Um, it doesn't work like that.
    Since YOU are claiming "Jesus" was real and did those things it's up to YOU to show that is so.

    What is the earliest that anyone recorded says "Jesus was non existent" as you do?
    You really must learn to read. Honestly, it'll make your life easier. You won't have to ask questions about statements that weren't actually made.
    There must be these statements. Who first said that Jesus never existed? Who first said "There is no empirical evidence at all for a person named Jesus (or similar) having existed."?
     

  12. #212  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Not all the writings found are even in the Bible...it was a nice pick and choose fest....

    Fiction is like that.
    samsmoot likes this.
     

  13. #213  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie?
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Maybe Bird Woman and Coyote are waiting to eat your soul when you die for not worshipping them.

    No way!
    Because...?
    I think it I just stories, with some truth, but overall, ficticious!
    Which bit of the Jesus story is obviously wrong to you? The family geneology bits are suspect aren't they. I suppose the angel Gabriel bits are hard to understand as truth today. You tell me?
     

  14. #214  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Not all the writings found are even in the Bible...it was a nice pick and choose fest....

    Fiction is like that.
    I want any early writing that says "Jesus was not a real person". When did someone first start doubting that Jesus was real?
     

  15. #215  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    There must be these statements. Who first said that Jesus never existed? Who first said "There is no empirical evidence at all for a person named Jesus (or similar) having existed."?
    Ooh, is that MORE diversion?

    How about answering these:
    Why are they "irrelevant"?
    Simply because they weren't written down at the time?
    (And, like I said, the underpinnings of the Christian mythology ARE prehistoric).
    Since YOU are claiming "Jesus" was real and did those things it's up to YOU to show that is so.

    Answer those - properly - and I may provide some links.
    (Although, to be honest, A) you could have Googled them for yourself and B) you SHOULD be aware of the arguments 1 anyway 2).

    1 They have been presented on the other science forum that you used to (still do?) frequent.
    2 Having said that I'm well aware that only looking at arguments to support your own side of things is pretty much your modus operandi.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  16. #216  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    Waterman seems to have some issues of understanding some of the words we are using.. seem to confuse him. I will try to help.
    Evidence can be built and assembled to bring a conclusion of proofs provided. A strong case contains evidence. That the biblical claim of a Jesus from a place named Nazareth might be of some weight does not suggest for a moment he was the Son of God. I will not be found arguing that some things that are written of and assembled into a bible might be based on some truths.. But that some can find it as unproven is also fair. The bible talks repeatedly of a spiritual realm. I deni one exists. I demand proofs of scientific argument. Evidence.
    samsmoot likes this.
     

  17. #217  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie?
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Maybe Bird Woman and Coyote are waiting to eat your soul when you die for not worshipping them.

    No way!
    Because...?
    I think it I just stories, with some truth, but overall, ficticious!
    Which bit of the Jesus story is obviously wrong to you? The family geneology bits are suspect aren't they. I suppose the angel Gabriel bits are hard to understand as truth today. You tell me?
    Immaculate Conception.
    He had no siblings.
    He didn't have sex.
    Rose from the dead
    Making fish and wine
    Three Wise Men who DUMPED him.
     

  18. #218  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    oh and as astromark said....EVIDENCE
     

  19. #219  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    There must be these statements. Who first said that Jesus never existed? Who first said "There is no empirical evidence at all for a person named Jesus (or similar) having existed."?
    Ooh, is that MORE diversion?

    How about answering these:
    Why are they "irrelevant"?
    Simply because they weren't written down at the time?
    (And, like I said, the underpinnings of the Christian mythology ARE prehistoric).
    Since YOU are claiming "Jesus" was real and did those things it's up to YOU to show that is so.

    Answer those - properly - and I may provide some links.
    (Although, to be honest, A) you could have Googled them for yourself and B) you SHOULD be aware of the arguments 1 anyway 2).

    1 They have been presented on the other science forum that you used to (still do?) frequent.
    2 Having said that I'm well aware that only looking at arguments to support your own side of things is pretty much your modus operandi.
    I'm going to have to go soon. But I'm not questioning the underpinnings, they can be as fictitious as hell, that doesn't concern me.
    I notice you also claimed that Jesus wasn't real or something like that, so show me the first person to say that.

    How real do you want Jesus to be? If I'm aware of these arguments as you say, it must be a while back, and I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
     

  20. #220  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Waterman seems to have some issues of understanding some of the words we are using.. seem to confuse him. I will try to help.
    Evidence can be built and assembled to bring a conclusion of proofs provided. A strong case contains evidence. That the biblical claim of a Jesus from a place named Nazareth might be of some weight does not suggest for a moment he was the Son of God. I will not be found arguing that some things that are written of and assembled into a bible might be based on some truths.. But that some can find it as unproven is also fair. The bible talks repeatedly of a spiritual realm. I deni one exists. I demand proofs of scientific argument. Evidence.
    Do you want evidence that Jesus once lived in Nazareth? Well can you name anyone else who lived in Nazareth? I know his mum came from Nazareth and he was born in Bethlehem, then they fled to Egypt and much later returned to Nazareth. So what would satisfy your proof? Some bit of carpentry with his name engraved in it?
     

  21. #221  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I'm going to have to go soon.
    And yet you had the time to ask more questions... go figure.

    But I'm not questioning the underpinnings, they can be as fictitious as hell, that doesn't concern me.
    So, one more time: Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?

    I you you also claimed that Jesus wasn't real or something like that so show me the first person to say that.
    Er, I'll try again: You really must learn to read. Honestly, it'll make your life easier. You won't have to ask questions about statements that weren't actually made.

    How real do you want Jesus to be?
    Let me throw your own question at you: who was the first person to say Jesus was real?

    If I'm aware of these arguments as you say
    Aaaand back to the "not reading" problem. What I said was "you SHOULD be aware of the arguments" not "you are..."

    it must be a while back, and I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
    Ah right.
    Because we're talking about a different Jesus and a different possible didn't exist. Silly me.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  22. #222  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Do you want evidence that Pooh bear once lived in 100 Acre Wood? Well can you name anyone else who lived in 100 Acre Wood? I know Piglet came from 100 Acre Wood and he was born in Christopher Robin's house, then they went to the North Pole and later returned to 100 Acre Wood. So what would satisfy your proof? Some bit of carpentry with his name engraved in it - presumably the sign over his door (although that did say "Sanders")?

    You really have no idea do you?
    All of that is anecdote.

    Bethlehem was not Jesus’ birthplace but was imported from Hebrew prophecies about the future Messiah.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  23. #223  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    Immaculate Conception.
    He had no siblings.
    He didn't have sex.
    Rose from the dead
    Making fish and wine
    Three Wise Men who DUMPED him.
    I think you are meaning "virgin birth", rather than immaculate conception.
    He definitely had a brother.
    Jesus to me was married and had sex and possibly kids.
    Rose from the dead - well that is the crux of the story.
    Making fish and wine - tricky
    "Three Wise Men who DUMPED him" - is that travelers who reported him to Herod?
     

  24. #224  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Do you want evidence that Pooh bear once lived in 100 Acre Wood? Well can you name anyone else who lived in 100 Acre Wood? I know Piglet came from 100 Acre Wood and he was born in Christopher Robin's house, then they went to the North Pole and later returned to 100 Acre Wood. So what would satisfy your proof? Some bit of carpentry with his name engraved in it - presumably the sign over his door (although that did say "Sanders")?

    You really have no idea do you?
    All of that is anecdote.

    Bethlehem was not Jesus’ birthplace but was imported from Hebrew prophecies about the future Messiah.
    I'm asking Astromark what proof he wanted?
     

  25. #225  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I'm asking Astromark what proof he wanted?
    And, in typical fashion, you provided none.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  26. #226  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I'm asking Astromark what proof he wanted?
    And, in typical fashion, you provided none.
    I don't have to provide any till he tells me what he wants as proof.
     

  27. #227  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I don't have to provide any till he tells me what he wants as proof.
    So you'd rather just post bullshit until he replies?
    As opposed to, say, responding to MY questions?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  28. #228  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    Immaculate Conception.
    He had no siblings.
    He didn't have sex.
    Rose from the dead
    Making fish and wine
    Three Wise Men who DUMPED him.
    I think you are meaning "virgin birth", rather than immaculate conception.
    He definitely had a brother.
    Jesus to me was married and had sex and possibly kids.
    Rose from the dead - well that is the crux of the story.
    Making fish and wine - tricky
    "Three Wise Men who DUMPED him" - is that travelers who reported him to Herod?
    No way did that baby not come out of her vagina
    Well most people say he had no siblings
    Most people of faith deny he was marred and had sex and kids.....and if he was god....why did he need to have sex? I mean, YOU ARE GOD!!, you can't have a great orgasm by yourself?
    Yeah he rose from the dead....and flew too....and then had few interesting showing up at parties where he said, "YO".
    Yeah....here is a fish..we need like a hundred more....will you multiply them....and don't worry about aging the wine...it was automatically aged
    Dunno.....sounds like the wise men didn't know much about astronomy an so they cameled out and found some smuck who couldn't get a hotel for his wife who was delivering and so they did the straw in the manger....felt bad so they left him some smelly stuff........and man the Catholics picked up on that....they fling it around frequently!
    Beer w/Straw likes this.
     

  29. #229  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I don't have to provide any till he tells me what he wants as proof.
    So you'd rather just post bullshit until he replies?
    As opposed to, say, responding to MY questions?
    Mark has probably gone to observe the Blood Moon, so I wait till he gets back later. Your questions are just too far off track to answer.

    I know very little about other ancient religions or myths, so I can't answer them quickly.
    But I'm going now so catch you later.
     

  30. #230  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Your questions are just too far off track to answer.
    Actually no, they aren't.
    Your claim was: Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie? No way!
    I'm asking why you think THAT religion isn't a lie and all the others are.
    That's a pretty fundamental question, not even close to being "off track".

    I know very little about other ancient religions or myths
    So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young?
    How utterly lucky for you that you just happened to be exposed to the only correct religion in the world.
    What are the chances?

    so I can't answer them quickly.
    I gathered that: it's two and a half hours since I asked and all you've done so far is attempt to divert.

    But I'm going now so catch you later.
    And half an hour later you're still here... and still haven't answered my questions.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; April 15th, 2014 at 01:57 AM.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  31. #231  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Waterman seems to have some issues of understanding some of the words we are using.. seem to confuse him. I will try to help.
    Evidence can be built and assembled to bring a conclusion of proofs provided. A strong case contains evidence. That the biblical claim of a Jesus from a place named Nazareth might be of some weight does not suggest for a moment he was the Son of God. I will not be found arguing that some things that are written of and assembled into a bible might be based on some truths.. But that some can find it as unproven is also fair. The bible talks repeatedly of a spiritual realm. I deni one exists. I demand proofs of scientific argument. Evidence.
    Do you want evidence that Jesus once lived in Nazareth? Well can you name anyone else who lived in Nazareth? I know his mum came from Nazareth and he was born in Bethlehem, then they fled to Egypt and much later returned to Nazareth. So what would satisfy your proof? Some bit of carpentry with his name engraved in it?
    ~ And let me get back to this, as opening a Observatory on a cloudy night was always going to be a total loss idea. The many twists and turns are a frustration to me.. I was not and am not casting any doubt on the existence of the Jesus fellow. I think enough documentations of this chap have emerged to be convincing and compelling evidence that 'he' was a real person. A book could be written of my view of events of this mans life.. I have read a few.. The things I draw as questionable are the miracles, and that claiming to be the son of a God. That should get you some serious medical attention.. I have no beef with what Waterman or Bob choose to believe. It is not my view that they share.. I see offered not a single case of spirituality as a truth. Science will always keep looking and asking, but the answer today is no. You can not purport to be the Son of a God, when I cast a sideways view at any gods at all. That I think Roberttybob actually is closer to the scientific method than Waterman.. I will just remind us that this thread ' Why do you ? when I obviously do not.. I disqualify my views on that point..
     

  32. #232  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Your questions are just too far off track to answer.
    Actually no, they aren't.
    Your claim was: Do you really think the whole Christian story is based on a lie? No way!
    I'm asking why you think THAT religion isn't a lie and all the others are.
    That's a pretty fundamental question, not even close to being "off track".

    I know very little about other ancient religions or myths
    So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young?
    How utterly lucky for you that you just happened to be exposed to the only correct religion in the world.
    What are the chances?

    so I can't answer them quickly.
    I gathered that: it's two and a half hours since I asked and all you've done so far is attempt to divert.

    But I'm going now so catch you later.
    And half an hour later you're still here... and still haven't answered my questions.
    You are putting words into my mouth that I have not said. And you call Christianity a lie!
     

  33. #233  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Waterman seems to have some issues of understanding some of the words we are using.. seem to confuse him. I will try to help.
    Evidence can be built and assembled to bring a conclusion of proofs provided. A strong case contains evidence. That the biblical claim of a Jesus from a place named Nazareth might be of some weight does not suggest for a moment he was the Son of God. I will not be found arguing that some things that are written of and assembled into a bible might be based on some truths.. But that some can find it as unproven is also fair. The bible talks repeatedly of a spiritual realm. I deni one exists. I demand proofs of scientific argument. Evidence.
    Do you want evidence that Jesus once lived in Nazareth? Well can you name anyone else who lived in Nazareth? I know his mum came from Nazareth and he was born in Bethlehem, then they fled to Egypt and much later returned to Nazareth. So what would satisfy your proof? Some bit of carpentry with his name engraved in it?
    ~ And let me get back to this, as opening a Observatory on a cloudy night was always going to be a total loss idea. The many twists and turns are a frustration to me.. I was not and am not casting any doubt on the existence of the Jesus fellow. I think enough documentations of this chap have emerged to be convincing and compelling evidence that 'he' was a real person. A book could be written of my view of events of this mans life.. I have read a few.. The things I draw as questionable are the miracles, and that claiming to be the son of a God. That should get you some serious medical attention.. I have no beef with what Waterman or Bob choose to believe. It is not my view that they share.. I see offered not a single case of spirituality as a truth. Science will always keep looking and asking, but the answer today is no. You can not purport to be the Son of a God, when I cast a sideways view at any gods at all. That I think Roberttybob actually is closer to the scientific method than Waterman.. I will just remind us that this thread ' Why do you ? when I obviously do not.. I disqualify my views on that point..
    Shame about the clouds mate.
    astromark likes this.
     

  34. #234  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    [QUOTE=Robittybob1;552903]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You are putting words into my mouth that I have not said.
    Really?
    The only words I "put in your mouth" happen to be a direct quote: I actually linked to the post where you wrote that.

    And you call Christianity a lie!
    Now who's putting words in people's mouths?
    What I ACTUALLY wrote was:
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.


    If you're referring to this: So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young? - as "putting words in your mouth" then please note that it's a question.
    And a valid one.
    You claim that Christianity is "correct".
    You admit that "[you] know very little about other ancient religions or myths".
    What other interpretation is there?

    And, I notice, you STILL haven't answered any of my questions.
    Isn't it funny that you can find time to divert, ask largely irrelevant questions and make (false) accusations but can't answer on-topic fundamental questions...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  35. #235  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    [QUOTE=Dywyddyr;552965]
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You are putting words into my mouth that I have not said.
    Really?
    The only words I "put in your mouth" happen to be a direct quote: I actually linked to the post where you wrote that.

    And you call Christianity a lie!
    Now who's putting words in people's mouths?
    What I ACTUALLY wrote was:
    Or delusion.
    Or myth taken as fact.


    If you're referring to this: So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young? - as "putting words in your mouth" then please note that it's a question.
    And a valid one.
    You claim that Christianity is "correct".
    You admit that "[you] know very little about other ancient religions or myths".
    What other interpretation is there?

    And, I notice, you STILL haven't answered any of my questions.
    Isn't it funny that you can find time to divert, ask largely irrelevant questions and make (false) accusations but can't answer on-topic fundamental questions...
    Even though the sentence "So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young?" ends in a question mark I don't read that as a question but an accusation.

    I have spent several years studying the timeline of the Christian gospels history and I could not find any fault in it.
    The end result was that the dates, times, events are different to what I was taught in Sunday School but I was nevertheless still able to find a set of dates that were not contradictory with history. It starts with Jesus being born in 17 BC, and returning from Egypt in 4 BC.
    Being about 48 years old when he was crucified. Having a brother as evidenced by the words in John. It was years, centuries after the event that someone tried to work out the timeline and got it wrong. But now I'm sure with the rapid access to information via the internet we have a better chance of getting it right nowadays than ever before.
     

  36. #236  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Even though the sentence "So essentially you're saying that your religion is only your religion because that's the one you were fed when young?" ends in a question mark I don't read that as a question but an accusation.
    Ah right.
    You decided it's an accusation by ignoring the question mark.
    (Even if it WAS an "accusation" that's not the same as "putting words in your mouth"1).
    And, again, since you haven't particularly looked at any other religions then Christianity is effectively the only one you've been exposed to.
    How lucky that you got it right first time.

    I have spent several years studying the timeline of the Christian gospels history and I could not find any fault in it.
    So you ignored the errors, false claims and inconsistencies in the rest of the books?
    The timeline was the only thing that needed "confirmation"?

    And back to my previous question: Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?

    1 I won't expect an apology, not do I expect you to apologise for misrepresenting my words. I doubt you have that much integrity.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  37. #237  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    ~ Without becoming condescending or insulting I can see that pangs of indoctrinated cultures, beliefs are near impossible to shake off.. A lifetime of structured indoctrinations are who you are. I do see that questions rise and with every unsupported answer the doubt arises.. but to cast it aside as rubbish is a step too far for some.. We just keep chipping away and undermining. The truth will emerge eventually to those who seek it. The scientific method and principal must prevail or ignorance rises.. You know what I think.
    That I see questions being asked suggests hope for a truth ( like mine ) is within reach. I respect that my view must be the right one., and as arrogant as I see that. It is. You can not walk on water and that no one ever has.. That the story of Noah's ark was a handed down legend from india and is found in some form in most cultures just shows how a myth can grow larger than the truth which founded it.. That It may take some generations yet, but will be the intelligent hope.
    babe likes this.
     

  38. #238  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I have spent several years studying the timeline of the Christian gospels history and I could not find any fault in it.
    .....
    The timeline was the only thing that needed "confirmation"?
    In the links you provided above a lot of the argument revolves around the timeline inconsistencies, so I wanted to sort that part out as a priority.
    Debunking Christianity: Was Jesus Born in Bethlehem?
     

  39. #239  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ Without becoming condescending or insulting I can see that pangs of indoctrinated cultures, beliefs are near impossible to shake off.. A lifetime of structured indoctrinations are who you are. I do see that questions rise and with every unsupported answer the doubt arises.. but to cast it aside as rubbish is a step too far for some.. We just keep chipping away and undermining. The truth will emerge eventually to those who seek it. The scientific method and principal must prevail or ignorance rises.. You know what I think.
    That I see questions being asked suggests hope for a truth ( like mine ) is within reach. I respect that my view must be the right one., and as arrogant as I see that. It is. You can not walk on water and that no one ever has.. That the story of Noah's ark was a handed down legend from india and is found in some form in most cultures just shows how a myth can grow larger than the truth which founded it.. That It may take some generations yet, but will be the intelligent hope.
    I have only ever spoken to one other person who claimed to have walked on water, Mel Tari in Indonesia, when the Christians were fleeing from the Muslims he claims they crossed the river yet the attackers couldn't. He has written a book about the events "Like a mighty wind".
    I met Mel in Sydney in 2000.
    I see someone has put up a YT with Mel Tari talking about the event.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93TKE8_4QC0
    O
    K it was like what I recalled.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; April 15th, 2014 at 04:57 PM.
     

  40. #240  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I met Mel in Sydney in 2000.
    Oh, Mel Tari.... found guilty and had to pay 1.1 million dollars in damages.
    That guy.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  41. #241  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I met Mel in Sydney in 2000.
    Oh, Mel Tari.... found guilty and had to pay 1.1 million dollars in damages.
    That guy.
    Have you got any further evidence?
     

  42. #242  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Judge Orders Evangelist to Repay Heiress
    "conned an heiress out of nearly $500,000 and ordered [him] to repay the money plus $250,000 in punitive damages."
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  43. #243  
    Forum Senior Weterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Canada Saskatchewan
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    I talk to God in my head. I don't have proof.
    In other words you believe that you do so.
    You don't actually do so.

    There is evidence that God is real. The evidence is Jesus. People claim to have seen him, and they have no reason to lie. You are just being ignorant if you discard the evidence that Jesus is real.
    And here you display, once again, YOUR ignorance.
    There may have been a person called Jesus 1, but - and this is where your "logic" falls down - there is no evidence whatsoever that the stories about him are ture.
    Even IF he did perform the supposed miracles claimed for him, that STILL wouldn't be evidence for god - unless you can rule out pixies, fairies and whatever other supernatural things I can call to mind.

    Jesus is evidence that God is real.
    Not. Even. Close.


    1 There is some doubt over the historicity of the Jesus of the Bible.

    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
     

  44. #244  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
    Because there is no evidence that Jesus was in any way divine. Anecdotes of his deeds are no different than Hercules moving an island or Thor calling forth lightning. They are stories.
    astromark likes this.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  45. #245  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    Lets just see if I can demonstrate a idea or understand a concept. No actual proofs of reality exist regarding the entity God. A Jewish Boy claims to be his Son... How does one event support the other ?
     

  46. #246  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post


    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
    I have creaped out a bunch of people by appearing to hover a few centimeters off the ground. More accomplished people have done some pretty unexplainable tricks. I have even read a pamphlet claiming people like David Copperfield are possessed by daemons. These are all things that people have seen with their own eyes and still don't believe it is real. In the case of Jesus, there is no evidence that he performed those "miracles" and even if some people did see some weird stuff, it still doesn't mean much, not until it can be scrutinized by a critical observer. His mere assumed existence means very little.
    astromark and babe like this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  47. #247  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    ....I have creeped out a bunch of people by appearing to hover a few centimeters off the ground.
    How did you do that?
     

  48. #248  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Judge Orders Evangelist to Repay Heiress
    "conned an heiress out of nearly $500,000 and ordered [him] to repay the money plus $250,000 in punitive damages."
    Are you without sin? Then cast the first stone. Has he repaid his debts?
     

  49. #249  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
    0) We don't have incontrovertible evidence that Jesus existed.
    1) We have no reliable evidence that he did in fact walk on water.
    2) IF he actually did, we cannot say whether it was a trick or real.
    3) IF it was real then we still have no evidence that he was connected (in any way) to "god" 1.
    All we have are stories written (in many cases long) after the supposed event.

    1 Positing supernatural beings then who can say for certain that it was "god" (if indeed there was a connection) and not Uggle the pixie? Or Thor playing tricks? Or Coyote...?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  50. #250  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Judge Orders Evangelist to Repay Heiress
    "conned an heiress out of nearly $500,000 and ordered [him] to repay the money plus $250,000 in punitive damages."
    Are you without sin? Then cast the first stone. Has he repaid his debts?
    WTF has that to do with anything?
    The guy is a convicted con artist.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  51. #251  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    ....I have creeped out a bunch of people by appearing to hover a few centimeters off the ground.
    How did you do that?
    Daemons of course.


    Though this also works: Balducci levitation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  52. #252  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Judge Orders Evangelist to Repay Heiress
    "conned an heiress out of nearly $500,000 and ordered [him] to repay the money plus $250,000 in punitive damages."
    Are you without sin? Then cast the first stone. Has he repaid his debts?
    WTF has that to do with anything?
    The guy is a convicted con artist.
    Look what happens in different times of your life aren't causative. He was young then and older now, so he makes a mistake with an investment. Does that negate his earlier experiences?
     

  53. #253  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
    0) We don't have incontrovertible evidence that Jesus existed.
    1) We have no reliable evidence that he did in fact walk on water.
    2) IF he actually did, we cannot say whether it was a trick or real.
    3) IF it was real then we still have no evidence that he was connected (in any way) to "god" 1.
    All we have are stories written (in many cases long) after the supposed event.

    1 Positing supernatural beings then who can say for certain that it was "god" (if indeed there was a connection) and not Uggle the pixie? Or Thor playing tricks? Or Coyote...?
    0. Who starts a list with zero any way? What sort of incontrovertible evidence do you want?
    1. What sort of evidence do you want that he walked on water?
    2. It must have been some sort of trick!
    3. We are all connected aren't we?
     

  54. #254  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    so he makes a mistake with an investment
    He didn't "make a mistake with an investment" he conned the woman out of her money.
    "Tari conned Kline out of $475,000 by offering to put her inheritance in a trust that he promised to manage. Instead, Tari invested the money in All Seasons Resorts, the judge found."
    (Same link - the one YOU should have read).
    That's a deliberate misrepresentation, not a mistake. He lied about what he was going to do with the money.

    Does that negate his earlier experiences?
    It casts doubt on his veracity.
    "Tari later wrote that he had been reluctant to evangelize in Tonga because, "I knew that going into those countries would never produce a single penny.""
    Oh look - sod the people who want to see him/ he can help with "the lord's work" - I can't make any money out of them so I don't want to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    0. Who starts a list with zero any way?
    I did.

    What sort of incontrovertible evidence do you want?
    er, let me see... how about "incontrovertible"? Or reliable, verifiable.

    1. What sort of evidence do you want that he walked on water?
    Something better than written report by someone who's credentials we can't check.

    2. It must have been some sort of trick!
    Fair enough.

    3. We are all connected aren't we?
    Really?
    In order to show that we're "connected to god" you have to show that god exists.
    In other words all you have is a(nother) circular argument.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  55. #255  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    so he makes a mistake with an investment
    He didn't "make a mistake with an investment" he conned the woman out of her money.
    "Tari conned Kline out of $475,000 by offering to put her inheritance in a trust that he promised to manage. Instead, Tari invested the money in All Seasons Resorts, the judge found."
    (Same link - the one YOU should have read).
    That's a deliberate misrepresentation, not a mistake. He lied about what he was going to do with the money.

    Does that negate his earlier experiences?
    It casts doubt on his veracity.
    "Tari later wrote that he had been reluctant to evangelize in Tonga because, "I knew that going into those countries would never produce a single penny.""
    Oh look - sod the people who want to see him/ he can help with "the lord's work" - I can't make any money out of them so I don't want to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    0. Who starts a list with zero any way?
    I did.

    What sort of incontrovertible evidence do you want?
    er, let me see... how about "incontrovertible"? Or reliable, verifiable.

    1. What sort of evidence do you want that he walked on water?
    Something better than written report by someone who's credentials we can't check.

    2. It must have been some sort of trick!
    Fair enough.

    3. We are all connected aren't we?
    Really?
    In order to show that we're "connected to god" you have to show that god exists.
    In other words all you have is a(nother) circular argument.
    Conning someone is making a mistake.
    There were a lot of people evangelized -
    No evidence will ever be good enough for you. We'll go the the Sea of Galilee and recover the Lord's watery foot prints. Then you will believe.
     

  56. #256  
    Forum Senior Weterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Canada Saskatchewan
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Lets just see if I can demonstrate a idea or understand a concept. No actual proofs of reality exist regarding the entity God. A Jewish Boy claims to be his Son... How does one event support the other ?
    Because he allowed himself to be killed for it. If he was lieing, he would have stopped when people started to want to kill him.
     

  57. #257  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Conning someone is making a mistake.
    Conning someone is a deliberate act.
    He lied.
    The only "mistake" was that he thought he could get away with it.

    No evidence will ever be good enough for you.
    You haven't got any evidence.

    Then you will believe.
    And on that subject:
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Again.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  58. #258  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Because he allowed himself to be killed for it. If he was lieing, he would have stopped when people started to want to kill him.
    Grasping at straws.
    By this argument the Heavens Gate cult were ALSO correct - the fact that they died for those beliefs obviously means that there really was an alien space craft just behind Hale-Bopp, doesn't it?
    grmpysmrf likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  59. #259  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Conning someone is making a mistake.
    Conning someone is a deliberate act.
    He lied.
    The only "mistake" was that he thought he could get away with it.

    No evidence will ever be good enough for you.
    You haven't got any evidence.

    Then you will believe.
    And on that subject:
    Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?
    Again.
    So you are saying a deliberate act can't be a mistake?

    How do you know what he thought?

    I've got some evidence.

    If you really want me to say something about "Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?" why don't you ask nicely?
    Weterman likes this.
     

  60. #260  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So you are saying a deliberate act can't be a mistake?
    If it's a deliberate act it's only a mistake if you get a result different result than was intended - I've already covered that: The only "mistake" was that he thought he could get away with it.
    He lied to her about what he was going to do with the money.
    He misrepresented his position.

    How do you know what he thought?
    Ah right.
    When he said he was going to put the money in a trust for her what he meant to say was "I'm going to put your money into my own business", but it just came out wrong.
    Or, maybe he decided to lie to her and planned on getting caught out.

    I've got some evidence.
    Unsupported anecdote.

    If you really want me to say something about "Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?" why don't you ask nicely?
    Yeah, avoiding again.
    Tedious.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  61. #261  
    Forum Senior samsmoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post

    If you really want me to say something about "Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?" why don't you ask nicely?
    Now you're just getting silly.
    Scientists and religionists can be easily differentiated: one lot is arrogant, irascible and disdainful, the other believes in God.
     

  62. #262  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Lets just see if I can demonstrate a idea or understand a concept. No actual proofs of reality exist regarding the entity God. A Jewish Boy claims to be his Son... How does one event support the other ?
    Because he allowed himself to be killed for it. If he was lieing, he would have stopped when people started to want to kill him.
    Or he was raised to believe it, or he convinced himself of it later on, or someone else convinced him later on.

    People strap bombs to themselves in misguided belief. People drink the Cool Aid in misguided belief. People let their children die instead of letting modern medicine help them.

    If there was a real bloke called Jesus (or whatever he was really called) who believed he was the son of God, it doesn't mean he was.
    astromark likes this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  63. #263  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So you are saying a deliberate act can't be a mistake?
    If it's a deliberate act it's only a mistake if you get a result different result than was intended - I've already covered that: The only "mistake" was that he thought he could get away with it.
    He lied to her about what he was going to do with the money.
    He misrepresented his position.

    How do you know what he thought?
    Ah right.
    When he said he was going to put the money in a trust for her what he meant to say was "I'm going to put your money into my own business", but it just came out wrong.
    Or, maybe he decided to lie to her and planned on getting caught out.

    I've got some evidence.
    Unsupported anecdote.

    If you really want me to say something about "Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?" why don't you ask nicely?
    Yeah, avoiding again.
    Tedious.
    "Avoiding" "Tedious" ... that wasn't nice. How about starting me off on these other Gods? I don't know where to begin. What do you know about them?
     

  64. #264  
    Forum Senior Weterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Canada Saskatchewan
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Lets just see if I can demonstrate a idea or understand a concept. No actual proofs of reality exist regarding the entity God. A Jewish Boy claims to be his Son... How does one event support the other ?
    Because he allowed himself to be killed for it. If he was lieing, he would have stopped when people started to want to kill him.
    Or he was raised to believe it, or he convinced himself of it later on, or someone else convinced him later on.

    People strap bombs to themselves in misguided belief. People drink the Cool Aid in misguided belief. People let their children die instead of letting modern medicine help them.

    If there was a real bloke called Jesus (or whatever he was really called) who believed he was the son of God, it doesn't mean he was.
    And it doesn't mean he wasn't. Jesus is evidence. All those people that wrote about him, their writings are evidence. If you think they are lieing, that is your problem. The only difference of Jesus, and other history, is that Jesus performed miracles. You can choose to not believe these miracles, but that doesn't mean Jesus isn't evidence. You're opinion is not fact. It is opinion. Which means, you may not be right.
     

  65. #265  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by samsmoot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post

    If you really want me to say something about "Why do you not give the same credence to Greek & Roman stories of gods? Or Norse? Or Egyptian?" why don't you ask nicely?
    Now you're just getting silly.
    I know.
    astromark and samsmoot like this.
     

  66. #266  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    That was what I was talking of.. Roberttybob does have a sense of humor and integrity. ..
    ~ Now to Mr waterman.. No, that is unfair. You if you read my posts would know that I am very tolerant of whatever you want to believe. Some of the things you are suggesting are just unproven rubbish..
    There is always a answer and that we may not like it ( or of heard it before ) Is a truth. As a sample of this lets pick... this one:
    That on the way to his crucifixion one of the disciples stepped into the cross bearing walk to the site. That it was not Jesus that was crucified and thus made it easy to appear to friends later.. No I do not think it true, but you can see a argument of some intrigue.. Just because a miracle is said to have happened does not suggest it did. That I would not expect a agreement. That would be a disappointment. It is just a discussion.
     

  67. #267  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    How about starting me off on these other Gods? I don't know where to begin. What do you know about them?
    You see?
    This just reinforces the impression that you only believe in this particular "god" because it's the only one you've been exposed to.
    And, because you've uncritically accepted that exposure you've now gone that little bit further and started work on (badly) rationalising that belief.
    (While, at the same time, completely dismissing all the other "options" without giving them any consideration whatsoever).
    astromark likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  68. #268  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    How about starting me off on these other Gods? I don't know where to begin. What do you know about them?
    You see?
    This just reinforces the impression that you only believe in this particular "god" because it's the only one you've been exposed to.
    And, because you've uncritically accepted that exposure you've now gone that little bit further and started work on (badly) rationalising that belief.
    (While, at the same time, completely dismissing all the other "options" without giving them any consideration whatsoever).
    Look it was hard enough to get to know one such God let alone a whole swag of them. I don't think I have any particular favorite God and I don't say that anyone else is wrong since they don't believe exactly what I do.
    (Except I did tell the Mormons I thought their book was wrong just the other day.)
    astromark likes this.
     

  69. #269  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Look it was hard enough to get to know one such God let alone a whole swag of them.
    You don't know any god(s).
    But again, you appear to have selected the first one you came across and stuck, uncritically, with that.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  70. #270  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    I tried to walk on water. I really really tried and I AM A GODDESS!!

    I sunk like a stone.

    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!

    I got pregnant and had a child by an unknown person without having sex with them. THAT was immaculate conception!!! My daughter is now the daughter of a Goddess!! *nodding*
    astromark likes this.
     

  71. #271  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Look it was hard enough to get to know one such God let alone a whole swag of them.
    You don't know any god(s).
    But again, you appear to have selected the first one you came across and stuck, uncritically, with that.
    Well that is right, it is like just experiencing the smallest tip of a vine. So I'd say I had a taste, but I don't know beggar all about the whole plant really.
    But it was the start.
    But if you come back and say "you didn't experience anything", you will force me to reveal what the God told me, and the moderators can therefore blame you and not me. That is why I'm sitting on it, for it is quite controversial. (You probably know it already having followed me for years.)
    astromark likes this.
     

  72. #272  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I tried to walk on water. I really really tried and I AM A GODDESS!!

    I sunk like a stone.

    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!

    I got pregnant and had a child by an unknown person without having sex with them. THAT was immaculate conception!!! My daughter is now the daughter of a Goddess!! *nodding*
    What body of water was this?

    Does she know who her father is?

    I don't understand "Immaculate Conception". Google definition is:


    1. 1.
      the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.
    What does that mean and how do you relate that dogma to your situation?
     

  73. #273  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    But if you come back and say "you didn't experience anything"
    Whut?

    you will force me to reveal what the God told me
    What you think "god" told you.

    (You probably know it already having followed me for years.)
    No and no.

    And this just illustrates (if illustration were needed) that your beating around the bush on the subject of other "gods" - and the subsequent waffle about prehistory etc - was nothing more than a rambling diversion with no bearing on the point whatsoever.
    What a surprise...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  74. #274  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!
    I taught a herring to add up, but it was useless at multiplication.
    As for logarithms... don't ask.
    RedPanda and babe like this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  75. #275  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    ....

    And this just illustrates (if illustration were needed) that your beating around the bush on the subject of other "gods" - and the subsequent waffle about prehistory etc - was nothing more than a rambling diversion with no bearing on the point whatsoever.
    What a surprise...
    That is just so wrong. We are discussing history not prehistory. So when God revealed something totally unknown to the human race alive at that time I had to check if it aligned with the historical facts, and that initiated my years of research into the historicity of Jesus, and in the end I felt convinced it all fell into place. I now believe what I was told yet no one else in the entire world believes what God told me.
     

  76. #276  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    That is just so wrong. We are discussing history not prehistory.
    Take another look at the thread title.
    And it's NOT history - there's no evidence that the Bible is anything more than yet another myth that includes some factual historical details, cf the previously-mentioned Trojan War.

    So when God revealed something totally unknown to the human race alive at that time
    Such as?

    yet no one else in the entire world believes what God told me.
    Probably because it's more than likely that "god" didn't tell you anything - you just imagined it.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  77. #277  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    I have things I wish to say that are just going to be thought of as offencive.. I do not intend to offend 'Waterman' or 'Roberttybob' or anyone else... But Mary it is said remained a virgin while poor old Joseph got really screwed. Why would a immensely powerful entity pick on a 16 year old Jewish girl that was already with her man.. Joseph. It just seems so wrong.. Where Waterman talked of hearing God speak to him yet he has not a single dot of proof of that. Talking with yourself a...? Your own conscious mind is YOU. Now my friend Roberttybob has been spoken to.. I am disappointed that people of education and science could be so wrong.. Might I offer the olive leaf..You were dreaming mate..dreaming. Credit your own mind with your own thoughts. I am interested in what Bob is eluding to.. maybe just quietly I want to know of what you talk.. ( personal mail me...)
     

  78. #278  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I tried to walk on water. I really really tried and I AM A GODDESS!!

    I sunk like a stone.

    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!

    I got pregnant and had a child by an unknown person without having sex with them. THAT was immaculate conception!!! My daughter is now the daughter of a Goddess!! *nodding*
    What body of water was this?
    Strawberry Lake

    Does she know who her father is?
    How Could she....it was immaculate conception!! All she knows is that she is a GODDESS!



    I don't understand "Immaculate Conception". Google definition is:


    1. 1.
      the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.
    What does that mean and how do you relate that dogma to your situation?
    How could she, unmarried conceive and not be free of sin? The term immaculate conception actually refers to her being born w/o sin however....she had Jesus...and that was not after boinking Joseph....cause per Matthew, she popped out Jesus w/o having had boinked with Joseph.

    Either she did the dirty deed or something because if she was w/o sin, then she and Joseph didn't have sex, and she wasn't having it with anyone else either.


    http://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm
     

  79. #279  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I mean, YOU ARE GOD!!, you can't have a great orgasm by yourself?
    I haven't been much attached to this thread, but I laughed when I read that.
    astromark and babe like this.
     

  80. #280  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I tried to walk on water. I really really tried and I AM A GODDESS!!

    I sunk like a stone.

    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!

    I got pregnant and had a child by an unknown person without having sex with them. THAT was immaculate conception!!! My daughter is now the daughter of a Goddess!! *nodding*
    What body of water was this?
    Strawberry Lake

    Does she know who her father is?
    How Could she....it was immaculate conception!! All she knows is that she is a GODDESS!



    I don't understand "Immaculate Conception". Google definition is:


    1. 1.
      the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.
    What does that mean and how do you relate that dogma to your situation?
    How could she, unmarried conceive and not be free of sin? The term immaculate conception actually refers to her being born w/o sin however....she had Jesus...and that was not after boinking Joseph....cause per Matthew, she popped out Jesus w/o having had boinked with Joseph.

    Either she did the dirty deed or something because if she was w/o sin, then she and Joseph didn't have sex, and she wasn't having it with anyone else either.


    Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
    What sin would Mary have committed if she finds herself pregnant without doing it? What was sinful and what wasn't?

    That quote certainly sounds like the idea that they never did it seems in error.
     

  81. #281  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I tried to walk on water. I really really tried and I AM A GODDESS!!

    I sunk like a stone.

    Then I got some fish and told them to multiply....they were trout......they refused to and I AM A GODDESS!

    I got pregnant and had a child by an unknown person without having sex with them. THAT was immaculate conception!!! My daughter is now the daughter of a Goddess!! *nodding*
    What body of water was this?
    Strawberry Lake

    Does she know who her father is?
    How Could she....it was immaculate conception!! All she knows is that she is a GODDESS!



    I don't understand "Immaculate Conception". Google definition is:


    1. 1.
      the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.
    What does that mean and how do you relate that dogma to your situation?
    How could she, unmarried conceive and not be free of sin? The term immaculate conception actually refers to her being born w/o sin however....she had Jesus...and that was not after boinking Joseph....cause per Matthew, she popped out Jesus w/o having had boinked with Joseph.

    Either she did the dirty deed or something because if she was w/o sin, then she and Joseph didn't have sex, and she wasn't having it with anyone else either.


    Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
    What sin would Mary have committed if she finds herself pregnant without doing it? What was sinful and what wasn't?

    That quote certainly sounds like the idea that they never did it seems in error.
    READ THE ENTIRE SITE...EVERY BIBLE VERSION SAID IT!

    And if she was screwing Joseph, she was certainly not immaculate....and she did I with someone else other than Joseph she committed adultery...

    ooops there goes any kind of IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!!! *L*
    astromark likes this.
     

  82. #282  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1;

    [URL="http://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm"
    Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[/URL]
    What sin would Mary have committed if she finds herself pregnant without doing it? What was sinful and what wasn't?

    That quote certainly sounds like the idea that they never did it seems in error.[/QUOTE]

    ~ What sin ? I think someone is telling pork pies.. that's the sin.. of Mary.
    babe likes this.
     

  83. #283  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1;

    [URL="http://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm"
    Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[/URL]
    What sin would Mary have committed if she finds herself pregnant without doing it? What was sinful and what wasn't?

    That quote certainly sounds like the idea that they never did it seems in error.
    ~ What sin ? I think someone is telling pork pies.. that's the sin.. of Mary.[/QUOTE]
    They had rules regarding with adultery and fornication. So babe is suggesting Mary was unfaithful I think.
     

  84. #284  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
     

  85. #285  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
     

  86. #286  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    4,982
    Why is it not unlawful for God to impregnate any female He desires? Where's a woman's free will? " Sorry lady but you're having my kid whether you like it or not ". Was she a willing participant, sex with God, the ultimate boink.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
     

  87. #287  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
     

  88. #288  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Why is it not unlawful for God to impregnate any female He desires? Where's a woman's free will? " Sorry lady but you're having my kid whether you like it or not ".
    That GOD and this GODDESS would be exchanging THUNDERBOLTS by now!
     

  89. #289  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Why is it not unlawful for God to impregnate any female He desires? Where's a woman's free will? " Sorry lady but you're having my kid whether you like it or not ".
    I believe it is just as sinful for God to commit adultery as it would be for anyone else.
    So the only person who could lawfully be Jesus' father was Joseph. It is just how the conception happened that remains unexplained.
    astromark likes this.
     

  90. #290  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1;

    [URL="http://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm"
    Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[/URL]
    What sin would Mary have committed if she finds herself pregnant without doing it? What was sinful and what wasn't?

    That quote certainly sounds like the idea that they never did it seems in error.
    ~ What sin ? I think someone is telling pork pies.. that's the sin.. of Mary.
    They had rules regarding with adultery and fornication. So babe is suggesting Mary was unfaithful I think.[/QUOTE]

    YA get pregnant with GOD's CHILD AND DON'T TELL YOUR SPOUSE?....I Think that is called ADULTRY in the highest form.....

    I mean, two timing Joseph .....oh please........and he even found them a major..


    "HONEY, I am having GOD'S CHILD....and we have to travel to have it.....is that ok with you? I mean it isn't your baby, but you know I am a virgin."


    JOSEPH: Yeah right.....let's name him Jesus and write books about him.....OH!!! and lets invite those three wise men an pick their brains about fish and wine."

    MARY:

    SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN!!
    astromark likes this.
     

  91. #291  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post

    And it doesn't mean he wasn't. Jesus is evidence. All those people that wrote about him, their writings are evidence. If you think they are lieing, that is your problem. The only difference of Jesus, and other history, is that Jesus performed miracles. You can choose to not believe these miracles, but that doesn't mean Jesus isn't evidence. You're opinion is not fact. It is opinion. Which means, you may not be right.
    You must have heard that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? Well, much of the claims made about Jesus are very extraordinary indeed and the evidence does not even come close to being that. Even you have to recognise this fact.

    So, you are free to believe Jesus was divine, but don't pretend that there is anything close to sufficient evidence to claim as much.
    astromark and babe like this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  92. #292  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
    Well those Goddess' with claims of Immaculate Conception at least.
     

  93. #293  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
    Well those Goddess' with claims of Immaculate Conception at least.
    INCORRECT!........that is why GODDESSES do NOT CLAIM IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!
     

  94. #294  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
    Well those Goddess' with claims of Immaculate Conception at least.
    INCORRECT!........that is why GODDESSES do NOT CLAIM IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!
    I was understanding you were claiming immaculate conception.
    Why DO you beieve in God?
     

  95. #295  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
    Well those Goddess' with claims of Immaculate Conception at least.
    INCORRECT!........that is why GODDESSES do NOT CLAIM IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!
    I was understanding you were claiming immaculate conception.
    Why DO you beieve in God?
    What is the difference between a GOD and a GODDESS....same power.
     

  96. #296  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Astromark, if you keep this up, I'm gonna fall in cyber love with (OH MY GOD) some person from New Zealand....I shall be utterly humiliated and you won't love me anymore......I think I should just cry now....I mean....why not just get it out of the way?


    SNICKER
    You'll lose your Goddess status!
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    Goddesses can have ALL THE LOVERS THEY WANT!!! *buffing nails*
    Well those Goddess' with claims of Immaculate Conception at least.
    INCORRECT!........that is why GODDESSES do NOT CLAIM IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!
    I was understanding you were claiming immaculate conception.
    Why DO you beieve in God?
    What is the difference between a GOD and a GODDESS....same power.
    You seem to want to be a mother, a wife, a mistress and a Goddess as well.
    I'd imagine a God and a Goddess are much the same, but there would be rules I suppose, and you break the rules at your peril.
     

  97. #297  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
    Posts
    5,320
    As thus is now getting silly let's hear what Jim has to say... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2k_9mXpNdgU. It's all good but most relevant part us 5:35 onwards
     

  98. #298  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,035
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    The things I draw as questionable are the miracles, and that claiming to be the son of a God. That should get you some serious medical attention..
    If you come from a religious tradition wherein "god" created humanity, claiming to be a child of god is not terribly exceptional. For someone who was born out of wedlock, in an era when that was a serious stigma, claiming to be a child of god might have served as a way of deflecting that.


    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post


    Tell me why Jesus isn't evidence that God is real. Tell me how seeing Jesus walk on water, is not evidence that God is real.
    I have creaped out a bunch of people by appearing to hover a few centimeters off the ground. More accomplished people have done some pretty unexplainable tricks. I have even read a pamphlet claiming people like David Copperfield are possessed by daemons. These are all things that people have seen with their own eyes and still don't believe it is real. In the case of Jesus, there is no evidence that he performed those "miracles" and even if some people did see some weird stuff, it still doesn't mean much, not until it can be scrutinized by a critical observer. His mere assumed existence means very little.
    Especially since most of Jesus's miracles were healing miracles - which are the easiest to fake.

    Just attend a "revival" sometime,and you'll see a number of "miraculous healing" miracles. You know, where the preacher calls someone out of the audience, that person comes on stage and says they have a terrible illness. Then the preacher puts his hands on their head, says a prayer or something, and the person suddenly claims their malady has gone away.

    No special effects. Just a complicit audience member.
    babe likes this.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
     

  99. #299  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,149
    What is the difference between a GOD and a GODDESS....same power,'

    ROBBITY:
    You seem to want to be a mother, a wife, a mistress and a Goddess as well.
    I'd imagine a God and a Goddess are much the same, but there would be rules I suppose, and you break the rules at your peril.
    I am GOD....it's my rules........and no worries......*cough* you can bow now!! *ducking*
     

  100. #300  
    Forum Senior Weterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Canada Saskatchewan
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    How about starting me off on these other Gods? I don't know where to begin. What do you know about them?
    You see?
    This just reinforces the impression that you only believe in this particular "god" because it's the only one you've been exposed to.
    And, because you've uncritically accepted that exposure you've now gone that little bit further and started work on (badly) rationalising that belief.
    (While, at the same time, completely dismissing all the other "options" without giving them any consideration whatsoever).
    Yes, I was raised to believe in God. It seems like you have been raised poorly, with a "everyone wins" attitude, and you can't accept when you are wrong. Even in other threads, if someone gets close to proving you wrong, you insult them, and ignore what they say.


    You don't know that God isn't real. You have no proof that he isn't real. If you say that he must not be real, because we have no proof of him, then why can I not say, you have no proof that he isn't real, so he must be real?
    Robittybob1 likes this.
     

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 21
    Last Post: December 30th, 2013, 08:17 AM
  2. God is either everything, or God is nothing. Vote!
    By mike328 in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: August 19th, 2012, 01:51 PM
  3. Mrs. God says God is a one woman God. No Mary thank you.
    By Greatest I am in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: October 7th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •