Thread: Mormons = Satanic Cult?

O.k. first of all I don't want to offend anyone here, this is just what I heard. I have never really looked into how the Mormon faith works and have heard very little about it.

I recently saw a mini documentary that I should point out was Christian biased. The gist was that the Mormon religion is some sort of cover up for a satanic cult like the Freemasons.

They gave a rough explanation of the beliefs and it almost sounded as bogus as Scientology (no offense intented). Didn't Adolf Hitler say "The greater the lie the more readily it will be believed".

What do y'all think? Can anyone support this or would anyone like to oppose it?

Originally Posted by DaBOB

O.k. first of all I don't want to offend anyone here, this is just what I heard. I have never really looked into how the Mormon faith works and have heard very little about it.

I recently saw a mini documentary that I should point out was Christian biased. The gist was that the Mormon religion is some sort of cover up for a satanic cult like the Freemasons.

They gave a rough explanation of the beliefs and it almost sounded as bogus as Scientology (no offense intented). Didn't Adolf Hitler say "The greater the lie the more readily it will be believed".

What do y'all think? Can anyone support this or would anyone like to oppose it?

The mormons are christians, I understand the majority of them [like the freemasons] contribute a significant amount to charity, they have [like all religions] a few quirks, but on the whole, seem a nice bunch of law-abiding citizens. The origin of their religion may be a little shaky to some but again no more or less than any other religion. They have a 'bible' called the book of Nephi, sound christian values, what's the problem?

On a personal note I believe they are one of the more 'passive' religions and seem to me to quite happily tolerate all others whether theist, agnostic or atheist.

It sounds to me like you are quite happy to listen to rumour and gossip, perhaps you should get to know a few mormons and even free-masons.
I personally know persons of both groups [I belong to neither though] and have no problems with them.

The freemasons have about as much influence as warts on a pickle (or is that what they WANT me to believe? ). Regarding mormons, that's pretty much the same. There are a few mormon churches here, and I know a few, they definitely aren't a satanic cult from what I see so far

Megabrain: Because christians need someone to fight. Like every other denomination, they want someone to call "evil". christian denomination or not.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

I recently saw a mini documentary that I should point out was Christian biased. The gist was that the Mormon religion is some sort of cover up for a satanic cult like the Freemasons.

"Christian biased" says it all! There are Christians who say the same thing about the Catholic church. Religion including Christianity is full of all kinds of extremists.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

They gave a rough explanation of the beliefs and it almost sounded as bogus as Scientology (no offense intented). Didn't Adolf Hitler say "The greater the lie the more readily it will be believed".

Well their pretext based in a document about a tribe of Israelite coming to the Americas is rather farfetched, but I think most of the atheist in this forum don't find much of the Christian faith that is any less far fetched than that. Regardless of their beginnings, I believe that the Mormons have conducted themselves no more or less sincerely religious than any other religous group.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

The mormons are christians,

Well they like the Jehova Witnesses and a few other groups, they consider themselves the "true christians". But there is a rather large worldwide consensus concerning what is definatively Christian and they agree that like the Jehova Witnesses, the Mormons are not Christian. From an outside religious studies viewpoint, however, it would be hard to deny the justification for taxonomically grouping both the Jehova Witnesses and the Mormons in a large group labeled Christian.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

I understand the majority of them [like the freemasons] contribute a significant amount to charity, they have [like all religions] a few quirks, but on the whole, seem a nice bunch of law-abiding citizens. The origin of their religion may be a little shaky to some but again no more or less than any other religion. They have a 'bible' called the book of Nephi, sound christian values, what's the problem?

Yes they are good people. Living in Utah I have always found rather obnoxious those people who live here and complain about the Mormons. If one is goint to live in an area with a predominant religion one ought to appreciate their role in making the place what it is. I rejoice in their fight for the freedom of non-smokers to breathe clean air and I am ambivalent to their rigid control of the sale of liquor in their state (of Utah). I say their state even though it is not so well know that Utah is neither the state with the most mormons (California) nor the state where mormons make the highest percentage of the population (Idaho).

Originally Posted by Megabrain

On a personal note I believe they are one of the more 'passive' religions and seem to me to quite happily tolerate all others whether theist, agnostic or atheist.

Yes. In fact, freedom of religion is among their articles of faith. So even though they share this abomnable attitude that they are the one true church with both Jehova Witnesses and the Catholics, I find their expression of this belief to be the least abrasive. I don't find their religion attractive, for their preoccupation with the authority given to them by God is one that repels me, but my best friend is LDS and I cheerfully greet their missionaries whenever I meet them.

I'll give a deeper summary.

Basically the only similarity Mormons have to Christians is Jesus and Lucifer. Everyone becomes a God when they die or the resurect. When the become a God they float in to space and have God families... riiiight.

Before certain laws were made in the U.S. if a Mormon defected they were assasinated by another Mormon so that they could be resurected and try again. Men had 4 to 6 wives and up to about 60 children.

The Mormon temples do not have any Holy Crosses but, instead have the up-side-down pentagram and the goats head (both signs of the devil) among other thing.

Apparantly there is a saying that if there is ever an armagedon the only ones left will be cockroaches and Mormons because they are required to keep stores of food and safe hosues.

Oh ya and is there any reference in "standared" Christianity to racism? The Mormons believe that black people are the people who remained nutral (joined neither Jesus nor Lucifer). They believe that only white people can become immortal. Is it a coincidence that a racist (like) religion was "created" in a time where racism was common?

All the information I have on Mormons is from a single documentary made by a Christian group so I am sure it is quite biased. I personally don't know anyone who is Mormon (I don't think). It is a 41 min long video but I will post the link just in case anyone wants to watch. Here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...luminati&hl=en

I'm not trying to sound offensive. I am just presenting what I know so that I may get a clearer view from others.

P.S.

Sorry I'm to tired to edit. :P

The dividing line between Christians and psuedo Christians revolves around the divinity of Jesus -- that is, was He God in the flesh.

Neither Mormons nor JWs, agree with this basic tenet of Catholocism or mainstream protestants.

To be sure, I know a number of both Mormons and JWs who nice people. I know atheists who are equally nice people. I know a few Muslims on a personal basis and they are nice people. And I also know some Christians who are nice people.

I have lived and worked with people of all kinds of religious persuasions, sexual preferences, and racial groups.

No matter what kinds of categories people are divided into, you will find good people and bad people in those groups. You will find generous people and penny pinchers. You will find the gregarious and the reclusive.
No group has a monopoly on any one particular type of person.

On the religious level, the difference between Christians and others is their belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and that salvation is in Him.

But so far as I can tell, that is the only real difference between Christians and other people.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Basically the only similarity Mormons have to Christians is Jesus and Lucifer. Everyone becomes a God when they die or the resurect. When the become a God they float in to space and have God families... riiiight.

Nonsense. There is also the belief in God the Father, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the angels, Sunday meeting, the communion, and many more. This belief that they become a god is a popular mormon belief but not official doctrine.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Before certain laws were made in the U.S. if a Mormon defected they were assasinated by another Mormon so that they could be resurected and try again. Men had 4 to 6 wives and up to about 60 children.

All human beings have a dark past. Christian history is filled with murder persecution and injustice, killing those of their own people they chose to call witches and killing other people whom they called heathen.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

The Mormon temples do not have any Holy Crosses but, instead have the up-side-down pentagram and the goats head (both signs of the devil) among other thing.

Hard to answer since non-mormons are not allowed in their temple, which is why I suspect this accusation was made. But there are plenty of ex-mormons you can ask about that. They have a lot of paintings and pictures and if they have a painting representing the devil, why then there are plenty in the Catholic churches as well.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Apparantly there is a saying that if there is ever an armagedon the only ones left will be cockroaches and Mormons because they are required to keep stores of food and safe hosues.

True. And what is your point?

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Oh ya and is there any reference in "standared" Christianity to racism? The Mormons believe that black people are the people who remained nutral (joined neither Jesus nor Lucifer). They believe that only white people can become immortal. Is it a coincidence that a racist (like) religion was "created" in a time where racism was common?

No but that did not prevent the so called Christians of the United States from practicing slavery upon the Africans and genocide upon the native Americans now did it?

Originally Posted by DaBOB

All the information I have on Mormons is from a single documentary made by a Christian group so I am sure it is quite biased. I personally don't know anyone who is Mormon (I don't think). It is a 41 min long video but I will post the link just in case anyone wants to watch. Here it is.

Don't be so guilable.

Originally Posted by daytonturner

The dividing line between Christians and psuedo Christians revolves around the divinity of Jesus -- that is, was He God in the flesh.

Neither Mormons nor JWs, agree with this basic tenet of Catholocism or mainstream protestants.

Actually you probably have to be a bit more nitpicking to get at the precise difference here. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that both believe that Jesus was the creator of the world and would affirm His divinity. However, the Jehova Witnesses would say that Jesus is a created being, and the Mormons would say that Jesus is begotten of the father in the same manner that we are all children of God in heaven before we were born.

Christology has been an unholy mess in the history of Christianity and numerous attempts to solve the mysteries involved have been declared heresies by the eccumenical councils. My own case, the affirmation of the divinity of Jesus is not central to my own faith. I do not deny it and I even defend the doctrine, for I see no contradiction in it. My own tendency to see Jesus as a human being is satisfied by the eccumenical compromise that Jesus was fully man and fully God. But I think that the real problem is that if any one should go around claiming that they have the authority on these matters and say that everyone has to believe as they do in contradiction to the eccumenical councils in order to be a proper Christian as both the Mormons and the Jehova Witnesses have done. That more than anything is what makes them heretics and causes the worldwide consensus to declare that they are not Christian.

Originally Posted by daytonturner

On the religious level, the difference between Christians and others is their belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and that salvation is in Him.

But so far as I can tell, that is the only real difference between Christians and other people.

No. That will not work any more than making the affirmation of Jesus' divinity the decisive difference. Both JWs and LDS also believe that Jesus is the Messiah and the source of salvation. I do not doubt that you have good reason for saying this but in a non-Christian forum like this you need to be more clear. I think what you partly mean is that it is the judgement by most Christians that the LDS and the JWs effectively point not to Jesus as the source of salvation but to their own human organizations. But the Catholics border on the same behavior with their insistence that they are the one true church and that they have the apostolic authority to speak for God. I think it is only their adherence to the terms of the eccumenical councils (of which they arrogantly claim to be author), that allows the worldwide consensus to recognize them as Christian at all.

Mitch,

From answers.com [the on-line dictionary],-

CHRISTIAN:-

Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Now since the name of the Mormom church is 'The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints', does this not count them as Christians? [at least by this definition].

Also,

Do not all religions profess to be the 'true religion' ? after all, if they did not them it would be an admission that their religion was false.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Do not all religions profess to be the 'true religion' ? after all, if they did not them it would be an admission that their religion was false.

No, they profess to be "true," but not in the JW sense. A lot of people seem to think that each religion (within limits) is a different path to connecting with god. As long as those religions abide by the moral codes within the bible, usually.

In that sense, they believe they are "true" but not "the only 'true' religion."

Originally Posted by Megabrain

CHRISTIAN:-

Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Now since the name of the Mormom church is 'The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints', does this not count them as Christians? [at least by this definition].

Yes and I think I made it very clear in my first post. Let me quote myself.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

From an outside religious studies viewpoint, however, it would be hard to deny the justification for taxonomically grouping both the Jehova Witnesses and the Mormons in a large group labeled Christian.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Do not all religions profess to be the 'true religion' ? after all, if they did not them it would be an admission that their religion was false.

Not quite. They of course claim some handle on an important truth. But there are many religions which are not so exclusive: Hinduism and Native American religion being particularly good examples. Christianity certainly has some strong exclusive elements, and most of Christianity does not support the "many paths" approach. There is of course Jesus' famous saying, "No one comes to the Father except by me." But within Christianity there is another spectrum in regards to what is considered really Christian. The JWs, the mormons and to some degree the Catholics as well are saying that only their organization and its members are truly Christian. (In the case of the Catholics it is not so much that only their members are Christian but that only their organization has the authority to speak for God) It is this second spectrum to which I was refering.

Personally, my own interpretation of Christianity is that all religion is basically wrong and therein lies my own repudiation of exclusivity. All of the religions may indeed have some handle on some important truths. After all I am a pragmatist, and the basic tenant of pragmatism is that truth is in part identified by what works for people. But ultimately (again according to my interpretation of Christianity), no religion really works in the end because salvation (long term or eternal happiness) can only come about as a work of God.

Christianity's own particular handle on an important truth is that the event of Jesus' death and resurrection is an important part of that work of God for the purpose of salvation. Now there is no denying that this has some definite elements of exclusivity about it, and so as a Christian, bound to accept the Bible as authoritative (including the above mentioned saying by Jesus) I cannot claim that I do not partake of some sort of exclusivity. Nevertheless, I feel that I can still make the repudiation of exclusivity an ideal to aim at, nevertheless. I do this by being careful to claim no certain knowledge on my part where I think it is not warranted. For example, what does the above statement by Jesus, "No one comes to the Father except by me," really mean? I do not know. If one does not accept Jesus as ones personal savior before you die, is there then no hope for salvation? I do not know.

Maybe you think it is dodging, playing dumb like this. But ignorance is perfectly natural and it is the pretense to know what one cannot possibly really know which is really ingenuous. But I do think that the JWs, Mormons and even the Catholics to some degree, take on far too much upon themselves in usurping the authority of God and pretending to knowledge which they do not have. Ultimately salvation (eternal happiness) comes from God and not any organization of men or their systems of belief. And no human being can speak for God. As a Christian I accept on faith that the Bible is God's message to mankind, however, I do not recognize anyones right or authority to tell anyone else what it means.

Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht

No, they profess to be "true," but not in the JW sense. A lot of people seem to think that each religion (within limits) is a different path to connecting with god. As long as those religions abide by the moral codes within the bible, usually.

In that sense, they believe they are "true" but not "the only 'true' religion."

No one is as exclusive as the JWs, for their clear stated doctrine is that all religion other than their own is inspired by the devil, and that all of its members belong to devil, and that all they do is the work of the devil.

Mitch,

I er mis-read your previous post thanks for clearing that up.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Basically the only similarity Mormons have to Christians is Jesus and Lucifer. Everyone becomes a God when they die or the resurect. When the become a God they float in to space and have God families... riiiight.

Nonsense. There is also the belief in God the Father, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the angels, Sunday meeting, the communion, and many more. This belief that they become a god is a popular mormon belief but not official doctrine.

I don't think they call God "God" though... they had a different name.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Before certain laws were made in the U.S. if a Mormon defected they were assasinated by another Mormon so that they could be resurected and try again. Men had 4 to 6 wives and up to about 60 children.

All human beings have a dark past. Christian history is filled with murder persecution and injustice, killing those of their own people they chose to call witches and killing other people whom they called heathen.

True, I guess it just seems kind of creepy coming from a religion that is so modern.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

The Mormon temples do not have any Holy Crosses but, instead have the up-side-down pentagram and the goats head (both signs of the devil) among other thing.

Hard to answer since non-mormons are not allowed in their temple, which is why I suspect this accusation was made. But there are plenty of ex-mormons you can ask about that. They have a lot of paintings and pictures and if they have a painting representing the devil, why then there are plenty in the Catholic churches as well.

The video has two defected Mormons, one of who was a high priest that practiced some of the rituals inside. He testified to the church having these satanic symbols.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Apparantly there is a saying that if there is ever an armagedon the only ones left will be cockroaches and Mormons because they are required to keep stores of food and safe hosues.

True. And what is your point?

I think what the video was getting at is that the Mormons have some secret plan to take over the U.S. and that their food stores are so that they could survive a massive war of some sort.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Oh ya and is there any reference in "standared" Christianity to racism? The Mormons believe that black people are the people who remained nutral (joined neither Jesus nor Lucifer). They believe that only white people can become immortal. Is it a coincidence that a racist (like) religion was "created" in a time where racism was common?

No but that did not prevent the so called Christians of the United States from practicing slavery upon the Africans and genocide upon the native Americans now did it?

I don't understand.

My point was that this is not an age old religion. It was created just a few houndred years ago. It seems to me that common ideas of that time being built in to the philosophy act as a type of evidence that this was a man made religion as opposed to man hearing it from God.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Originally Posted by DaBOB

All the information I have on Mormons is from a single documentary made by a Christian group so I am sure it is quite biased. I personally don't know anyone who is Mormon (I don't think). It is a 41 min long video but I will post the link just in case anyone wants to watch. Here it is.

Don't be so guilable.

I'm not being gullible. The reason I made this thread is because I am being the opposite of gullible: skeptical.

Originally Posted by daytonturner

To be sure, I know a number of both Mormons and JWs who nice people. I know atheists who are equally nice people. I know a few Muslims on a personal basis and they are nice people. And I also know some Christians who are nice people.

I have known people who seemed like the greatest people in the world and then found out they were drug dealers. A persons personality doesn't always reflect their priorities.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Now since the name of the Mormom church is 'The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints', does this not count them as Christians?

This is another point I wanted to bring up. Apparantly the Mormon recruiters are taught to speak of Jesus and other familiar things to make Mormons just sound like a better version of Christianity (according to the video). In other words they use the name "church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints" to make them sound more Christian.

Again!! I know almost nothing, besides what I got from the video, about Mormons. If I sound like I am being insulting or rude I am not. I am just presenting what I know so that you can make revisions.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

I don't think they call God "God" though... they had a different name.

God, YHWH, Jehova, Allah, who cares? Now you sound like a Jehova Witness making such a big deal of the name they use.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

True, I guess it just seems kind of creepy coming from a religion that is so modern.

My point was that this is not an age old religion. It was created just a few houndred years ago. It seems to me that common ideas of that time being built in to the philosophy act as a type of evidence that this was a man made religion as opposed to man hearing it from God.

Apparently you need an American History lesson.

LDS Church founded 1830
American Civil War 1861-1865
Wounded Knee indian massacre 1890
Rosa Parks arrested for refusing to sit in the back of the bus 1955
Civil rights act passed in 1964

It really makes me laugh uproarously when I hear Americans and Christians self-righteously passing judgement upon others for doing exactly what they themselves did only a few short years ago.

As for whether they are man made: do you really think the atheists in this forum give much credit to claims of other religions that they are of divine origin? Ergo.....it is a matter of opinon and faith now isn't it?

Originally Posted by DaBOB

I think what the video was getting at is that the Mormons have some secret plan to take over the U.S. and that their food stores are so that they could survive a massive war of some sort.

Don't be absurd. If I were you, I would be more worried about the fundamentalist Christians who think that we do not need to worry about destroying the planet with poisons because it is almost time for the Lord to return.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

I'm not being gullible. The reason I made this thread is because I am being the opposite of gullible: skeptical.

Again!! I know almost nothing, besides what I got from the video, about Mormons. If I sound like I am being insulting or rude I am not. I am just presenting what I know so that you can make revisions.

Good, and I am representing a neutral objective voice that is telling you that you watched a propaganda film.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Now since the name of the Mormom church is 'The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints', does this not count them as Christians?

This is another point I wanted to bring up. Apparantly the Mormon recruiters are taught to speak of Jesus and other familiar things to make Mormons just sound like a better version of Christianity (according to the video). In other words they use the name "church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints" to make them sound more Christian.

Why shouldn't they? That is what they think they are - a better version of Christianity. What are they supposed to do, knock on your door and say, "Hello, we are a pseudo-Christian heretical cult, wanna join?"

That defense made, there is a sliver of truth here. I suspect that the LDS use the Bible far more when they are on a mission and talking to potential converts than when they are meeting in their own churches, when I think they are far more likely to read from the Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants.

Look! If you want to believe as some Christians do that anything heretical or non-Christian is Satanic so be it. Personally I would rather be on the utter opposite end of that particular spectrum from the Jehova Witnesses. Fanatics will read between the lines and see Satanic practices in just about any group or church, the Catholic church being a rather big example of this. But this is religious fanaticism and religious bigotry. When I suggested talking to ex-Mormons, I did not mean those who have made it their life's work to destroy the Mormon chruch. You can certainly find more objective sources of information than that.

Seems to me that at the end of the day, nobody here has any personal evidence of Mormons chopping up babies, except a few articles written by imaginative smallville newsmen on a 'no news for six months now' day.

Mormons are satanic - Myth BUSTED!

As there can only be one religion acceptable to god. Then we should be looking for just one religion.

[There was only one group who were reffered to as gods people in the bible. Jesus said there is only one faith.]

As for the view about jesus and who he was. Any study of the bible will show that jesus is the son of god. Not god himself.

I know that the mormons dont follow the bible. However they have not made as many evil decisions as protestants and catholics.

These two religions have certainly proved themselves to be part of this world and all the atocities that have marked this wicked system of mans rule.

Any study of the REAL Bible will show that Jesus claimed to be God on numerous occasions. For that he was tried, convicted and executed. So if Jesus was not God, then he was a liar and not worthy of anyone's reverence.

A JW supporting Mormons is laughable. Sort of the pot claiming neither it nor the kettle are black.

Clearly i havent supported the mormons. We have different beliefs. As the bible states there is only one true religion then i clearly arent supporting any religion other than my own.

However iam aware that many people have claimed jesus is god. There are a few suggestions depending on translation that are debated over.

However there is clear evidence in all versions of the bible that jesus is indeed the son of god.

Jesus constantly [in all versions of the bible] refers to his father as someone separate than himself.

Jesus said, "You, the only true God." (John 17:3)

John 20:17 "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

1 Corinthians 8:6, "For us there is one God, the Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ."

1 Timothy 5:21" the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels."

Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

John 5:19 "The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing."

Jesus told the Jews: "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me." —John 6:38

Clearly jesus describes his father, jehovah, as superior to himself. Jesus was indeed the son of god. There is over whelming evidence for this.

Jesus will be the king of his father jehovahs kingdom.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Seems to me that at the end of the day, nobody here has any personal evidence of Mormons chopping up babies, except a few articles written by imaginative smallville newsmen on a 'no news for six months now' day.

Mormons are satanic - Myth BUSTED!

Agreed. Either all religions have a dark backround or all religious people are generally nice people. And somehow I doubt anyone religion would feel bad if they ruled the world.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

As there can only be one religion acceptable to god. Then we should be looking for just one religion.

Says who? I know you have already answered this question by stating that the Bible says so; but, if I am correct, God works in mysterious ways.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." --John 8:32

This does not mean you will be given the truth. In fact, the way I read it is that it is up to me to find this truth and that I will know that I have found it when I am free.

Why would God give us free will if we weren't supposed to figure things out on our own?

The mormom church is Boko Haram for white North Americans.

This thread is seven years old. Start a new one CEngelbrecht.

I didn't have anything else to add. It's staggering how religions and cults and idealisms so easily forget everything written in their own cult texts.

"You can see the splinter in the eye of your brother, but not the bone in your hand."

Funny to think about "Satanic Cults" and thread necromancy.

As for Mormonism, it's not a surprise at all that most Mormons forget the church's history. The church goes to great pains to erase and re-edit all the parts it doesn't want people to think about. Even the Book of Mormon is not exactly the same now as it was in its first printing. There have been some subtle changes.

The temple ceremonies are really tame now, compared to the semi-occult stuff you hear about from the 1970's, and nobody talks about that at church. Since only members in good standing who are old enough are allowed in the temple, and it is forbidden to discuss the ceremonies outside the temple, most people from the younger generation honestly don't know that the ceremonies used to be different.

Yes it's a old thread, but revival for further discussion should not be discouraged.. As for the subject.. Mormons, Scientoligests.. and many, many others. All have there own agenda's. That power over people and money are the motivating thrust.. Saddens me.
The answer is clear for me.. note that I said 'me'.. That education is and will null the effectiveness of what I see as gross ignorance..
That opposing views will be apparent and amusing.. interesting.

Originally Posted by DaBOB

O.k. first of all I don't want to offend anyone here, this is just what I heard. I have never really looked into how the Mormon faith works and have heard very little about it.

I recently saw a mini documentary that I should point out was Christian biased. The gist was that the Mormon religion is some sort of cover up for a satanic cult like the Freemasons.

They gave a rough explanation of the beliefs and it almost sounded as bogus as Scientology (no offense intented). Didn't Adolf Hitler say "The greater the lie the more readily it will be believed".

What do y'all think? Can anyone support this or would anyone like to oppose it?

Check out the book UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN by Jon Krakouer. It has tons of historical reference and the story of how the religion came to be. The book was controversial enough that the Mormon council tried suing for it not to be released. I grew up in Mormon land in Wyoming (approx. 65% Mormon or higher) and I can assure you they are not satanic at all. I can also tell you that their belief in the bible is a hoax. They don't read it, they only carry it around as to look christian. They abide by the Book of Mormon only.
There is a small program out of SLC called the ex-Mormon files that is horribly produced but is interviews from ex-Mormons. If you can get over the fact that its produced for about $1.50 an episode there is good info there. But don't get to caught up in it... they are all converts to born again Christianity in the show...

~ and if the 'like' button worked I would use it.
Many of the fringe religious do not encourage self worth or expression. Do not question what the Elders have proclaimed..
My short list includes the Scientology, The Mormons, Seventh day Adventists, Jehovah's witnesses.. and there will be many many more ..
From a non believers point of view I see a great deal of love and support mechanisms from religious groups.. Some genuine good can be gained from the misguided affront that I see as religions to be.. Most of the followers do not have the equipment to challenge what they are told is true.. Only a deep and meaningful education can help you see the truths of religious belief.
Under the guises of religious doctrine teaching many half truths and moral codes are used as proofs of facts that are simply false.
The fact that for a greater sample of the community just do not care enough to question and disregard what we see as important.
My fall back position is that education of the sciences and the inquiring mind can fix the balance.. but will it ? Only if enough care to question. I am not a converted religious. I have never had a faith of religious belief.. It just can not be as told and thus does not make for a good explanation of anything.. Adoption of the scientific principal prohibits religion as a answer to anything.
We ask of scientific revue when no such science can be possible.. science is not faith based. Science demands tests and challenges.
No such truths of religions can be so tested.. none.

Mormons do not seem Christian to me. They have their own book which doesn't support the bible. One example is they think they will live on planets after they die and make babies. This contradicts the Christian belief because bible says that people will not marry or anything after this like but that we will be like angels. We will pass from this body to a spirit body. So, Mormonism is a completely separate religion than Christianity.

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

What is the difference between Joseph Smith and Aleister Crowley?

At least one was a Satanist, but Smith was visited by the Angel Moroni, Crowley by the Angel Aiwass.
Stuff from the 19th Century when many cults prospered to gather people's money.

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

That makes them not Christian how? Every sect of christianity has a differernt set of rules, guidelines, and scripture interpretations, that doesnt make them not Christian.

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

Following this logic only Catholics would be Christians.

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

Following this logic only Catholics would be Christians.

Not even Catholics. The Nicene Creed states new doctrine and is fundamental to modern Christianity, and it wasn't written until 325.

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Following this logic only Catholics would be Christians.

Not even Catholics. The Nicene Creed states new doctrine and is fundamental to modern Christianity, and it wasn't written until 325.

Oh good point Bill!

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

That makes them not Christian how? Every sect of christianity has a differernt set of rules, guidelines, and scripture interpretations, that doesnt make them not Christian.

Because bible says no new doctrine and stuff or else it's not handed down as the same thing.

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

Following this logic only Catholics would be Christians.

Not even Catholics. The Nicene Creed states new doctrine and is fundamental to modern Christianity, and it wasn't written until 325.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

That makes them not Christian how? Every sect of christianity has a differernt set of rules, guidelines, and scripture interpretations, that doesnt make them not Christian.

Because bible says no new doctrine and stuff or else it's not handed down as the same thing.

the bible already broke that "rule" though its very creation was a series of what to we include decisions by men.

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Originally Posted by 178Kristy

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Its not separate though, its a derivation of it, with interpretation based on a "new" book.

A new book is a new doctrine with a developing new religion. And bible says not to accept any new doctrines than what has been already preached and handed down.

Following this logic only Catholics would be Christians.

Not even Catholics. The Nicene Creed states new doctrine and is fundamental to modern Christianity, and it wasn't written until 325.

Agreed!

Kristy you do realize we were poking holes in your argument right? That by your definition, that you stated above, no modern Christian should be considered a Christian. That's what we were getting across. So you've effectively rendered the term Christian useless.

Might I ask who you consider to be Christians?

Joseph Smith founded Mormonism. He was a cheap con artist that spent time in prison and made bogus claims about possessing gold tablets and seeing visions of 'angels'. He also waged war. Grandiose in his own self importance, he frequently made false claims to convince people he was some kind of Messiah. Pretty typical of a religious leader really.
I work in psychiatry and I have met many thousands of people that see visions and hear voices. Often they are religious in nature. Until psychiatry became established these illnesses were only (mis) understood in religious terms. Ignorant people, having no way to properly understand these conditions, attribute a reality and authority to a preacher's experierience and this is used to promote some doctrine or another.
Sometimes rarely (thank goodness) a person with experiences of these delusions (schizo- affective) will also suffer from narcissism. Such people are highly dangerous if given power.

When people tell me Jesus is different, I think of the party tricks he used to (allegedly perform). If God was not so stupid and vengeful, he would not use such party tricks (like turning water into wine) to 'prove' his existence. They are not proofs. Another example. Christians take it as proof of God's compassion that Jesus healed lepers in "the name of the father" . So, let us assume that Jesus and God did this, what about all the other lepers? They just got forgotten, and of course, God, who (allegedly) created everything, created leprosy along with all sorts of other foul diseases and simply does not intervene at all when creatures suffer and perish in all sorts of horrific ways.
Ignorant Christians have no proper explanations for this and simply claim "God works in mysterious ways". Presumably God invented pain too.

The explanation "God did it" is simply a non explanation. How? Did he use his arms? Did he have some kind of factory? If he did intervene then how exactly did he do this? These questions are facetious, but they are legitimate - there is actually NO explanation of how God did X or Y, merely a claim that he did.

Christians believe that God cures people at Lourdes. Go to Lourdes and you will find a racket. All sorts of mementos are for sale. However what you wont find is real miracles, only false claims. Granted there are many crutches on the walls - but where are the false legs? Presumably, God being omnipotent, he would have no trouble growing new legs - after all, he is a "miracle worker" he can do this if he wanted to, but... for some curious reason he stops at crutches.

All through the Bible God behaves in a vengeful and petty way. he visits pestilence and revenge on anyone that disagrees with his orders. God is actually pretty stupid, and intentionally evasive. His "proofs" of his own existence, like burning bushes, walking on water, parting seas etc are not actually proofs at all. God does not understand what reasoning and evidence actually is