Thread: Ultimate hope.

After hearing of the death of saddam hussain. It made me think ...

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

I have a firm belief in the bibles promise for everlasting life. Thats why i am a jehovahs witness. Also i have agreat love of god.

As a man like saddam lived his whole life first being abused as a child then deciding to abuse, torture and kill many thousands. He certainly lived by the sword and died by the sword.

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon a si die ill never live again is too much for me to take.

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope? Do you simply not care for your future?

The inhability of man to solve problems is clear. Its man that causes most of the problems. So only god can bring an end to the injustice in this world.

Who do non jehovahs witnesses hope in?

Originally Posted by Truth1010

After hearing of the death of saddam hussain. It made me think ...

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

not sure what you would define as "hope." Humans automatically have a "hope" response (usually) to most situations. When it comes to life, everybody is full of hope most of the time, unless a long string of bad events occur. In any case, there is really no "ultimate hope" for many, since most are content with their lives and hoping to improve it in some way.

I assume you mean hope in the "ultimate hope" sense much like most theists mean "goal" in the "ultimate goal" sense. Side from that, I don't fully get what you are trying to get at.

As a man like saddam lived his whole life first being abused as a child then deciding to abuse, torture and kill many thousands. He certainly lived by the sword and died by the sword.

Except for leaders like the one leading cuba, N. korea, etc. They'll most likely die of old age soon.

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon a si die ill never live again is too much for me to take.

Hence why you are dependent! See a psychologist, learn to deal with those feelings. Once you do, then perhaps you can truely call yourself religious, rather than mentally disturbed.
You have just proven my points about JW's psychological condition. -.-

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope? Do you simply not care for your future?

The future is always calculated. When it comes to death and dying, it's as simple as waiting for it. if, by some universal chance their is an afterlife, then fine. If not, okay, no biggie. Unlike some, most atheists and other religious types (sometimes anyway) do not fear dying with a lack of an afterlife.
Fear of death is one of the reasons religion was created to begin with.

The inhability of man to solve problems is clear. Its man that causes most of the problems. So only god can bring an end to the injustice in this world.

Who do non jehovahs witnesses hope in?

-.-....this is getting retarded. Man has solved more problems than you could probably count. The amount of problems today is vastly smaller, and yet vastly larger, due to overpopulation.

Also, you apparently don't comprehend the contradiction you just made regarding justice.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

I will not try to answer that question until you answer the following question:

Rapists, serial killers, racists, wife beaters, Jehova Witnesses, what is your hope for life?

Originally Posted by Truth1010

I have a firm belief in the bibles promise for everlasting life. Thats why i am a jehovahs witness. Also i have agreat love of god.

I have a firm belief in the love and goodness of God, but I do not dream that I could bind and control God with my good works or my opinions of what the Bible means. I do not believe that I could hold God to a promise. But I would love and serve Him because He is the one thing more worthy of love and service than anything else. My hope is that His will shall be done, and since He is of a greater love and goodness than I can even imagine, I am certain that His victory is also better than anything I can imagine.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon a si die ill never live again is too much for me to take.

Not for me. The dream of the oblivion of non-existence is one that many people have a great hope for. But unfortunately I cannot put any faith in this dream. It seems much more likely to me that our choices in life have consequeces that we must eventually face and that this escape into non-existence that people dream of, is just not possible. I do not fear non-existence. This fear seems quite irrational to me. I think the truth is that there is a far greater cause for fear than that.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope? Do you simply not care for your future?

Rather than deluding myself that some organization of men can save me I have put my salvation into the hands of God, so that instead of worrying about my own future I can more fruitfully employ my energy seeking ways to serve the Lord.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

The inhability of man to solve problems is clear. Its man that causes most of the problems. So only god can bring an end to the injustice in this world.

Yes, that is very true. Isn't it wonderful that we are not depending on the Jehova Witnesses or any of the other religions and human organizations that cannot succeed, but upon our Lord and savior who will conquer all.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

what is your hope for life?

to irradicate religion from the human mind set, ( given the world is full of religious murders, it's an impossible dream.) and thus stop the majority of the killings, my hope is that if man can realise, that this is his one and only chance of life, he will respect the right to live for all humanity.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon as I die i'll never live again is too much for me to take.

unfortunately for you, that is the reality.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope?

who's living without hope, speak for yourself.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

Do you simply not care for your future?

read my first reply, in my lifetime if I can see total peace on this planet, and probably instigate it, I will die happier.
I will die happy anyway because I've have continued my line and have at the moment had a safe and comfortable life. but life for millions of other is'nt so good, just because of where they were born.
we need to sort this out, not sit there talking to an invisible sky daddy, that is just plain dangerous, you never know what a religious person going to tell himself to do next, there is always a religious crazy around the corner, so I/we have to be constantly on my guard, for the safety of my/our children.
you would not let dangerous lunatics run around society, but we let the religious crazy, what is the difference.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

The inhability of man to solve problems is clear. Its man that causes most of the problems. So only god can bring an end to the injustice in this world.

it's mans irrational believe in a sky daddy, that causes the majority of the problems, an irrational belief that something you've imagined, could bring world peace, is purely infantile.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

Who do non jehovahs witnesses hope in?

humanity, but unfortunately nearly two thirds are suffering with this religious mind virus, I really hope we can find a cure.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

After hearing of the death of saddam hussain. It made me think ...

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

I have a firm belief in the bibles promise for everlasting life. Thats why i am a jehovahs witness. Also i have agreat love of god.

As a man like saddam lived his whole life first being abused as a child then deciding to abuse, torture and kill many thousands. He certainly lived by the sword and died by the sword.

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon a si die ill never live again is too much for me to take.

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope? Do you simply not care for your future?

The inhability of man to solve problems is clear. Its man that causes most of the problems. So only god can bring an end to the injustice in this world.

Who do non jehovahs witnesses hope in?

We believe in ourselves, mostly recognise we are only here for a short time, feel priviliged to have existed rathre than our atoms being part of inate objects, understand that we live forever in our DNA, - through our children, and are happy to bow out out at the end.

Why I should I believe there is anything else after death?

Hope? - who the hell needs hope, that's a crutch for those who cannot face the reality of brief existence, those who do nothing more than desire that life will go on forever, they will cling to every second. The reality is death is certain, heaven is not. To any logical thinking person 'certain'. It may be a possibility or even a probability [to theists] but atheists accept death is certain - beyond that we see nothing, just like before we were born, there was no pre-life so why a post-life?

Can you tell me why everlasting life in some spirit form is even remotely desirable, what is it that appeals to you?

Truth1010 is curious as to how we atheists can live without hope!

He posed a good question; and I will try to answer it for myself.

"Hope" is to me a meaningless concept, one like "holy," "sacred", annoited, "luck" etc. I have CONFIDENCE instead of "hope." Right now, I am in my motor home in Oklahoma City helping a family of five get a new start. People help each other because we are instinctively moral animals. It takes a sick society to turn people into criminals.

And I am well aware that I will some day die. To me, that is no problem. I am not so rigid that I cannot adjust to reality! So, it does not bother me. It is just important that I complete my mission here on Earth before it happens. Yes, I have goals---my own goals, ones that are constructive to the human race. I live for this purpose and it was not thrust upon me but taken and given by me to myself.

If I do not live long enough to accomplish my purpose, then at least I have tried. . .

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com

Truth1010,

Most people of the 6 billion living on earth have hopes. Their hopes are different from the 101000 JWs. Their heavens are not the same of JW's heaven. And there are no scientific method to prove whether which ones are real.

My ultimate hope is that one day I will find a JW that is open-minded.

My ultimate hope is a god-less world(in the sense of non-religion not the other loose form of godless)where there is no religion, no supersticious bull to cloud peoples judgements

so my hope is in fellow men, not supernatural beings

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

My ultimate hope is a god-less world(in the sense of non-religion not the other loose form of godless)where there is no religion, no supersticious bull to cloud peoples judgements

so my hope is in fellow men, not supernatural beings

Not sure I'd like to see a world without religion, variety is the spice of life, for all religion's dogma it does provide comfort to many, there will always be people who need to fall back on something, that something being the 'hope' of salvation, everlasting life or whatever. If it makes them happy then so be it, if it makes them beligerent, intolerant, aggreesive etc then maybe it's not so good.

I do agree that more people should have more confidence, sympathy and charity for their fellow species.

Truth1010,

After hearing of the death of saddam hussain. It made me think ...

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

That question is so condecending, and without good reason.

I have a firm belief in the bibles promise for everlasting life. Thats why i am a jehovahs witness. Also i have agreat love of god.

Good for you.

I would have an immence feeling of hopelessness if i didnt have a hope in god. Thinking that as soon a si die ill never live again is too much for me to take.

We can hope for anything we like, it doesn't mean it will materialise. You seem to be labouring under the impression that because you are a JW, you ARE a humble servant of God, yet nothing you have said allows anyone to think you have a point.
So please explain why it is you believe that only JW's are qualified to call themselves alone, Gods chosen people?

So how do non jehovahs witnesses live without hope? Do you simply not care for your future?

How do JW's live without humility?

Who do non jehovahs witnesses hope in?

That is an idiotic question.

Jan.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

My ultimate hope is a god-less world(in the sense of non-religion not the other loose form of godless)where there is no religion, no supersticious bull to cloud peoples judgements

so my hope is in fellow men, not supernatural beings

Not sure I'd like to see a world without religion, variety is the spice of life, for all religion's dogma it does provide comfort to many, there will always be people who need to fall back on something, that something being the 'hope' of salvation, everlasting life or whatever. If it makes them happy then so be it, if it makes them beligerent, intolerant, aggreesive etc then maybe it's not so good.

I do agree that more people should have more confidence, sympathy and charity for their fellow species.

i wonder if humans will evolve past religion. Many athiests and agnostics don't worry about or need everlasting life etc and make the most of the here and now.

Thats whats important, for me its carpe diem all the way, along with empathy for my fellow man and beasts

I suspect 'evolving beyond religion' will only come when/if we ever have all the answers, that to me would be boring, I like to ponder the universe...

I'd like to ask truth a serious question, a hypothetical one but serious.

If tomorrow, it were proven to your satisfaction that there is no God, how would you react?

And to be fair, atheist's how would you react if god were proven, to your satisfaction, to exist?

Originally Posted by Megabrain

I suspect 'evolving beyond religion' will only come when/if we ever have all the answers, that to me would be boring, I like to ponder the universe...

I'd like to ask truth a serious question, a hypothetical one but serious.

If tomorrow, it were proven to your satisfaction that there is no God, how would you react?

And to be fair, atheist's how would you react if god were proven, to your satisfaction, to exist?

Are you talking "a god" as in a creator of the universe and that it. Or an all seeing supervisor who's rules are written in a religious text?

Oh christ, nothing's ever that simple with you lot, is it!

OK, if you are religious, then God as you perceive God today,

For the Atheists, let's say God set off the big bang, came back a while later and caused teraforming, then every now and again, 'tweaked evolution' and finally 'communicated' to a few individuals.

Originally Posted by Megabrain

Oh christ, nothing's ever that simple with you lot, is it!

OK, if you are religious, then God as you perceive God today,

For the Atheists, let's say God set off the big bang, came back a while later and caused teraforming, then every now and again, 'tweaked evolution' and finally 'communicated' to a few individuals.

Then nothing would be different. god would just be another name for the big bang and mother nature and if he only communicated with a few then my life would still be inconciquential(sp)in his/her eyes and prayers would still be un-answered so still no point to worship or change my lifestyle

It would be like a corporation that was taken over in name only but continues buisness as usual

As I reflect on Saddam's death, I am impressed that he is either in Muslim heaven enjoying 72 virgins who look like Catherine Bell or he is in hell forced to have dinner with 72 virgins who look like Golda Meir.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

After hearing of the death of saddam hussain. It made me think ...

Evolutionists, athiests, non jehovahs witnesses, what is your hope for life?

I have a firm belief in the bibles promise for everlasting life. Thats why i am a jehovahs witness.

Well... you have stated before that you believe that you'll end up in a paradise on Earth and another 144,000 will continue on to heaven. For those of you who'll remain on Earth, I have bad news.

After another roughly 5 billion years, you'll find yourself in darkness. That is, the sun will exaust all its fuel and die. But before that, the Earth will likely be enveloped by the expanding gas of the sun as it turns into a red giant. Furthermore, since luminosity is proportional to the surface area via Stefan-Boltzmann, as the sun expands into the giant stage, you'll suffer from more than a mere sunburn.

Let's assume you make it out of this phase and are still dwelling on the charred Earth. Well, more bad news. The universe itself will not last forever (at least in the sense of a 'living' universe). You have three possible scenarios; the universe will either collapse in on itself, expand forever, or, after an infinite amount of time, gravity will exactly cancel the expansion - each depending on the geometry of the universe (closed, open, or flat). If the universe collapses in on itself, you'll be cooked along with everything else in the universe in what's called the big crunch. If the universe expands forever, the temperature will eventually reach damn near absolute zero and things will be quite dark as the stars eventually use up their fuel and everything reaches a state of equilibrium. A 'flat' universe, the only option left, will not be much better. Since there is only a finite amount of material in the universe, it too will 'use up its fuel' and eventually reach a state of equilibrium, and again, things will get very cold and dark.

So, in conclusion, it's better to be between numbers 1 and 144,000. Good luck.

William the way in which you say something that is total guess work in such an empassioned way amazes me.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what will happen in 5 billion years and nor does anyone else.

God created the earth to be filled with his people. God cannot lie. God could create 10 more suns if they were needed, but the universe we have is fine.

If only those non jehovahs witnesses would appreciate that and stop tryin gto destroy this earth.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

William the way in which you say something that is total guess work in such an empassioned way amazes me.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what will happen in 5 billion years and nor does anyone else.

Actually, those are scientific estimations you can google. Based on observations of other stars and heavenly bodies. This isn't guesswork, it's pretty much fact (although not very detailed with the way william put it)

To predict somehting 5 billions of years away is ridiculus.

In reality God has designed an earth perfect for life. So he wouldnt waste millions or billions of years of work and let it all go to nothing.

Its a shame people arent more afraid of living just 70 years, rather than worrying about whatll happen in 5 billion years.

Originally Posted by Truth1010

William the way in which you say something that is total guess work in such an empassioned way amazes me.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what will happen in 5 billion years and nor does anyone else.

Truth, you know zero - zilch - nada about science!

Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht

Actually, those are scientific estimations you can google. Based on observations of other stars and heavenly bodies. This isn't guesswork, it's pretty much fact (although not very detailed with the way william put it).

Jeremy, two things;

1. To give great detail would take pages and pages. For example, the white dwarf cooling calculation (from another thread) is easily a 6 page calculation that hardly anyone here would understand.

2. All that effort into great detail would just be conveniently ignored by truth and his ilk.

cheers

Originally Posted by Truth1010

To predict somehting 5 billions of years away is ridiculus.

In reality God has designed an earth perfect for life. So he wouldnt waste millions or billions of years of work and let it all go to nothing.

Its a shame people arent more afraid of living just 70 years, rather than worrying about whatll happen in 5 billion years.

Well we'll all look forward to watching him refuel the sun, it's burning off hydrogen at the rate of 4.6 Million tons per second, if you think that's ridiculous you can work it out using no more than a pen, piece of paper, a ruler a lump of rock, a thermometer and an electric fire.....

If man has not left the earth within about 1 billion years, he won't be going anywhere!

Originally Posted by william

Jeremy, two things;

1. To give great detail would take pages and pages. For example, the white dwarf cooling calculation (from another thread) is easily a 6 page calculation that hardly anyone here would understand.

2. All that effort into great detail would just be conveniently ignored by truth and his ilk.

cheers

Umm...duh? Hence why I said not in great detail!