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Thread: Why are there so many denominations in christianty?

  1. #1 Why are there so many denominations in christianty? 
    ert
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    Why are there so many denominations in christianity? And what is the main difference between them and Roman Catholic?


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  3. #2 Re: Why are there so many denominations in christianty? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ert
    Why are there so many denominations in christianity? And what is the main difference between them and Roman Catholic?
    different philosophies based on the same fictitious book.


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  4. #3 Re: Why are there so many denominations in christianty? 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ert
    Why are there so many denominations in christianity? And what is the main difference between them and Roman Catholic?
    It is called the freedom of religion, and the Catholics do not seem to believe in it. At least the Catholics like a number of other churches (Mormon, Jehova Witness, Eastern Orthodox) believe that they have the authority given them by God to dictate what everyone must believe in order to be acceptable to God. Hand in hand with this seems to be a belief that they decide who goes to heaven or not with a power to excommunicate those they see as trouble makers. So the Catholics excommunicated representatives from the Eastern Patriarchs starting the Great Schism that divided the Catholic church into the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Later they excommunicated the famous Protestants like Martin Luther as well.

    Protestants, however, believe that God gave His word to all mankind in the Bible and that anyone can read it and by following its instructions can establish a relationship with God that requires no mediator other than Jesus Himself. In the Protestant view, the denominations are merely service organizations to help Christians carry out the tasks which the Bible instructs us to do, but the real church, known as the body of Christ is administered by God Himself in the action of the Holy Spirit with Jesus as the head. These denominations may have different philosophies about practice and emphasis but provided that they teach certain essential Christian doctrines they are recognized as Christian by a worldwide consensus. Even denominations who are not recognized as Christian may still have Christian members who are themselves members of the body of Christ, just as denominations who are recognized as Christians may very well have many members (even a majority) who are not themselves truly Christian.

    Personally, I think that the type of exclusivity exhibited by the Catholics, mormons and Jehova Witnesses, where they usurp the authority of God to dictate truth to all men, acts like a knife to cut themselves off from the body of Christ. Nevertheless, unlike the Mormons and Jehova Witnesses, the Catholics are recognized as Christian by the worldwide consensus, though I would call them marginal because they themselves do not see any need for such a consensus, thinking that their opinion is the only one that matters. Many Protestants, however, do not agree with the consensus and find much of Catholic practice and teachings to be un-Biblical and pagan, not to mention their scandously corrupt history, and therefore consider them to be non-Christian or even anti-Christian.

    I do not care much about such details of belief and practice but I do believe in and uphold the worldwide consensus about what is Christian, but I firmly believe that what is acceptable to God is something for Him alone to judge.
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    Here's a scenario for you to say why I believe there are so many:

    Father Jim is supposed to go with a couple colleagues off to some far away area to teach Christianity. Now Father Jim has done a lot of reading and thinking and decided that this part of the Bible doesn't make sense. So he changes it. I think every sect is from the local Christian changing it as he sees fit.

    Look at Muslims, I'm pretty sure it is quite well defined in the Qur'an that it is NOT okay to kill people. The few extreme teachers tell their learners that it's okay to kill Infidels, because they are going to hell anyways. So the translation of the book by some guy creates a whole new part of the religion.

    At least that's my take on it.
    WHAT?!
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    Jesus said " there is one god, one faith and one baptism."

    There is only one religion acceptable to god. Its the main goal of all people to find this religion.

    Here is a link the there website. All the questions anyone could ask are answered here.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Jesus said " there is one god, one faith and one baptism."

    There is only one religion acceptable to god. Its the main goal of all people to find this religion.

    Here is a link the there website. All the questions anyone could ask are answered here.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
    Hi again Truth,
    So you're a Jehovah's Witness huh? The only reason I'm replying to this comment is to give you a further 'heads-up.' We have a Muslim here that is probably as adamant about his religion as you are about yours. You may run into him someday....

    And, we have a disgruntled former JW here. I can almost say for certain that you will run into him....

    Cheers,
    william
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    Thanks for these warnings. lol. It reminds me of my first day at school. Being warned of the many various people i could bump into.

    However, my views are always backed up by evidence. So i look forward to any debate. And im willing to answer any questions that people may ask.

    Including how do you type so well using just two fingers?
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  9. #8  
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    Can you tell me why you lot bang on my door every 3 or 4 months or so?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Jesus said " there is one god, one faith and one baptism."

    There is only one religion acceptable to god. Its the main goal of all people to find this religion.

    Here is a link the there website. All the questions anyone could ask are answered here.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
    As a former Jehovah's witness, I protest. HIGHLY. I have many watchtowers, awakes, etc. Know what they teach? Lies, half truths, biased nonsense, and the same basic message other religions teach: "We're the true religion, follow us or die" (except with others it's usually hell instead)

    lets use some facts about how the witnesses are based:

    1. The name Jehovah is a translation *guess* from a word that still baffles translators today.

    2. Their bible is heavily revised and edited in some places. Many claim that the simple grammar changes do not change the message, but in fact it does.
    Example: in the NWT, the word Jehovah has been placed along side "god" hundreds or thousands of times. In the actual hebrew text, the place where they translated "Jehovah" from only exists a few times (the older KJV has it in there those few times. I believe it was only three).

    3. The Jehovah's witnesses, moreso than almost any other religion, suffers from extreme brainwashing and psychological influence of children, young people, and even those up in age.
    How?

    When you decide to leave the organization, or you do something classified as "bad" by the elders (the elders are a chosen group of men that are akin to priests in a way, as they normally give the talks) can "disfellowship" them.
    What does this mean? Basically, they are instantly alienated from the entire "congregation" (ergo, anyone who is a jehovah's witness) until they right their ways, or the chosen time has passed.
    This includes, but is not limited to: Friends, family, elders, children, etc. ANYONE within the jehovah's witness religion, you cannot speak to, they cannot speak to you, etc.

    Many times there are people that may leave the organization, but end up coming back due to severe alienation from everyone. It also keeps many people from doing anything bad due to fear of a reprimand. It also causes severe psychological damage, due to the alienation, and the fact that it deepens the wound on anybody who has "drawn close to god" or has clung to the religion to a certain extent.

    NOTE: as far as I recall, the only ones capable of being disfellowshipped are those who have been baptized.

    4. The jehovah's witnesses, unlike more honorable sects of religion, claim they are thee ONLY true religion (true arrogance, no?). Anything else is pagan, and unlike other more permissible religions, if anything goes against the bible it is pagan.

    This includes, but is not limited to: Holidays (despite their meanings being changed), birthdays (I don't remember why), and sometimes non-formal parties. You also can't keep certain objects that may have been used for idol worship, watch certain movies that contain any "sinful" traits (which isn't too bad, but whatever), etc.

    5. They care not about the world. They only care about "saving" people, and going to heaven/staying on earth (the predominant amount, according to their beliefs, will stay on a paradise earth).

    As a result: None of them vote, since gods government is supposedly greater than mans. They don't attempt to change world events using democratic means, etc.

    6. Many blame everything on satan. The government? Satan. Wars? Satan. The cat died? Satan. Toast burned? SATAN! Stubbed your toe? SATAN!

    Sure, I am exaggerating, but many of them fail to comprehend that humans are EASILY capable of evil as well as "good" (they also ignore the subjectivity of both). As a result, tons of them live in a fantasy land where all humans are being blinded by satan and the "truth" will set them free!

    7. As with all religions that refuse evolution, their books (I've read both the 1960's version and the 1980's version. I think those are the most recent) speaking out against evolution are inherently flawed.

    In screwing up the views of evolution at the time, they manage to successfully brainwash most people into never giving it a second thought. Furthermore, they continually use the bible to prove god. This gives many of them the inability to argue it logically, and most flounder about when questioned (I should know, I've done it many times).

    8. Most of their psychological advice, magazines, etc, are based on non-credible scientists, psychologists, and people who are generally laughed out of the scientific community.
    As such, the predominant amount of it is flawed, and leads to the followers developing mental problems. Specifically: Dependence (mostly on the "meetings"), depression, overoptimism, frailness, etc.

    Need I go on? I don't believe I should need to express how insanely arrogant it is to take a phrase someone (who most likely never existed) said, and turn it into "well, MY religion is the true one. Despite the fact there are millions of others he could have referred to."

    Death blow: The Jehovah's witnesses didn't even start until 1870. Chances of them being the true religion, especially since there is a lack of any evidence which states so, is increasingly slim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Thanks for these warnings. lol. It reminds me of my first day at school. Being warned of the many various people i could bump into.

    However, my views are always backed up by evidence. So i look forward to any debate. And im willing to answer any questions that people may ask.
    This will be highly interesting
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    I see that you dont like jehovahs witnesses. But most of what you said was not true. I havent the time to point out the right to every lie made about the witnesses.

    But please use evidence, both scripture and deed to back up what youve said. Most scholars accept that god has a name. Yahwah, jahwah, or jehovah.

    How you pronounce jehovahs name is not the most important thing. But we seem to be the only religion that accepts god has a name.

    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing. Teaching people something is teaching, not brainwashing.

    The biggest brainwashing is when people claim evolution is not only possible but that it happened. When there is not one shread of evidence for this.

    We refuse to fight in wars or support man made leaders that cause these wars. Man made leaders that cause poverty, racism, persecution are supported by most other religions against the bible teachings.

    So do you think we should have supported hitler like the catholics and protestants in germany did? We didnt and died for not doing this, thats something im proud of.

    Jesus said "i am no part of this world and my people are no part of this world." Jehovahs witnesses are certainly no part of this violent world. We will never be.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I see that you dont like jehovahs witnesses. But most of what you said was not true. I havent the time to point out the right to every lie made about the witnesses.
    Translation: Most of it was true, and you are too afraid to point attempt to weasel your way around it. I do not assume that all end up in a similar fashion as I explained above, as that would be an illogical generalization.

    However, note how your replies hold the same base-reasoning as the muslim. "you lie!" is his common reply as well.

    If you are going to debate, you will reply to everything I say or nothing. Simply calling it a "lie" doesn't change anything, if you don't provide reasons why it tends to suggest you are afraid of mentally pondering alternatives. Similarly, this is another type of brainwashing, dependence on the religious beliefs.
    Note: the above is a speculation about your behavioral patterns based upon your reply and discrediting it as "a lie." I put no assumption forward that says it's accurate.

    But please use evidence, both scripture and deed to back up what youve said. Most scholars accept that god has a name. Yahwah, jahwah, or jehovah.
    What world do you live in? If it was a popular hypothesis, the KJV would have left it in. The predominant amount of bible scholars tend to disagree (in a rather heated debate no less) regarding the name of god.

    Actually, I didn't realize it was fully proven as a mistake until I read this from wikipedia:
    When Christians, unaware of the Jewish tradition, started to read the Hebrew Bible, they read יְהֹוָה‎ with the vowels together with the consonants as written, and obtained 'Jehovah'. Today this is recognized as a mistake. Many religious groups continue to use the form Jehovah, because it is familiar and because the correct pronunciation is unknown.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

    How you pronounce jehovahs name is not the most important thing. But we seem to be the only religion that accepts god has a name.
    Really now? Most people believe that the hebrew word "I am" is his name. Also, many religions refrain from the possible use or searching of gods name for fear that it is wrong to do so.
    What's great here, is that most congregations (I can't say all. Again, illogical generalization) teach that this *IS* the name of god. Never mind the fact that this pronunciation, along with the translation, is still highly disputed and is (once again) a "guess".

    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing. Teaching people something is teaching, not brainwashing.

    The biggest brainwashing is when people claim evolution is not only possible but that it happened. When there is not one shread of evidence for this.
    ...you have just provided the evidence. It is brainwashing to tell half truths, such as "there is no evidence for evolution." The fact you don't get the irony in the statement you made makes this funny, and sad at the same time. I will provide a few links on evolution which you may read, although I doubt that much reading will be done on them.

    Unfortunately I cannot teach you evolution in one megapost, since many websites offer it already. Save me some time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

    Best part: Transitional fossils. They exist.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tional_Fossils

    and the largest of them all:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/

    Educate yourself.

    We refuse to fight in wars or support man made leaders that cause these wars.
    This kind of superrationality only works if everybody agreed. Lets assume that the entire US was populated of JW's, then lets say someone invades with the intent of massacring them all (lets say the rest of the world).

    Jw's: Wiped out.

    This type of superrationality doesn't work in reality. Mans leaders do not cause wars, mans stupidity does. The smart people have to protect themselves from this stupidity, thus self-defense fighting is the most logical route.

    Man made leaders that cause poverty, racism, persecution are supported by most other religions against the bible teachings.
    Actually, the leaders themselves tend to be corrupt, but not all of them. Furthermore, poverty, racism, and persecution tends to not be the fault of the leader (unless you refer to hitler or similar instances). Many people are racist of their own free will, many suffer poverty due to overpopulation, and many are persecuted due to that racism and stupidity both mentioned above.

    Leaders are not to blame. the individual is.

    Also, most other religions...don't condone this. SOME do, because SOME are groups of individuals that are filled with racists and such.

    So do you think we should have supported hitler like the catholics and protestants in germany did? We didnt and died for not doing this, thats something im proud of.
    Umm...straw man tactics and leading the conversation? *sigh* I'm not sure how that is relevant to any part of my post. Whatsoever.

    Jesus said "i am no part of this world and my people are no part of this world." Jehovahs witnesses are certainly no part of this violent world. We will never be.
    ...that is quite possibly thee most elitist thing I'll ever read (ironically the same thing someone else just said to ME a few hours ago). This is why I said JW's were arrogant, and you have just given evidence for this.

    The problem is that you have to prove you are in fact the group jesus spoke of. JW's are a part of this world, no matter how much they would like to deny it. You seem to want to focus on the violence aspect, when you ignore how many other aspects.
    An example of a moral problem which many JW's would most likely fail: If you know someone is going to commit a murder (lets assume this person has no emotions, and is only capable of "bad"), and the only way to stop them in time is to shoot them (lets assume you are pointing a gun at their head and you can't miss), would you do so?

    Now, while that leaves out many details (feel free to add some in), you get the basic idea. INACTION is just as much of a sin morally as improper action.
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    Jeremy,

    If jehovah's witnesses believe they are not part of this world, and I belt the next one with a baseball bat would they feel it?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Jeremy,

    If jehovah's witnesses believe they are not part of this world, and I belt the next one with a baseball bat would they feel it?
    Har. Be nice megabrain. I'd rather it be a bit more civil than simple direct poo throwing. indirect poo throwing is much better.... :P
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    Point taken, next time they come round i'll make sure any shit I throw at them bounces off the wall before it hits them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing.
    Sadly Truth, every JW I know suffers from this (including Jeremy 'Pfft' ). Using religion is probably the easiest way to brainwash someone.

    Regards,
    william
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing.
    Sadly Truth, every JW I know suffers from this (including Jeremy 'Pfft' ). Using religion is probably the easiest way to brainwash someone.

    Regards,
    william
    Wow...you were a JW william? Totally explains your actions. No, wait, probably more of a conservative evangelical Christian fundamentalist type.
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  18. #17  
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    For a second I thought the title was:

    Why are there so many demonisations in christianty?

    :?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I see that you dont like jehovahs witnesses. But most of what you said was not true. I havent the time to point out the right to every lie made about the witnesses.
    As for me I would not say that I dislike the Jehova Witnesses. I have studied with them for extended periods during two different times in my life. Simply because I was willing to discuss religion with anyone who wanted to. I can say that the Jehova Witnesses have earned some small respect from me for the way, some of them at least, take the scriptures very seriously. However, the topic inevitably goes to one in which our disagreement becomes too great to continue. For in this particular area the Jehova Witnesses are easily the most extreme of all religious groups and that is in their intolerance for other religious points of view. It is their doctrine that all other religions and Christian denominations are tools of the devil which I believe condemns the Jehova Witnesses utterly of heresy and an abomnable degree of self-righteousness.

    I say heresy because I think a diversity of opinions is natural to the human condition but it is only when one person or group, usurps the authority of God and insists that only their point of view has any merit whatsoever, that their difference of opinion becomes a heresy separating them from the body of Christ. It is only then that they become apostate because they switch from pointing to God to idolatrously pointing at themselves. And that is why it is the ultimate act of self-righteousness for they replace God and Christ as the standard of righteousness with themselves and their own humanly fallable opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    But please use evidence, both scripture and deed to back up what youve said. Most scholars accept that god has a name. Yahwah, jahwah, or jehovah.
    No. I do not accept your method of quoting scripture and telling people that it means what you are saying. I do not approve of mouthing the words of God in order to pretend that all the words out of the same mouth are of God. My words are only my words and my reasoning is only my reasoning and I will not use scripture to pretend otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing. Teaching people something is teaching, not brainwashing.
    Any experience in this world will reveal that people will believe just about anything for just about any reason you can imagine. If there is any brainwashing going on, they do it to themselves - chanting their mantras (like "God is a bunch of nonsense" in the case of atheists) to themselves over and over again as if repeating it enough times will make it true. This self-brainwashing is the only explanation for the way people insist that there can be no doubt that their beliefs are the one and only truth. All the so called proofs they think they have are just the set of mantras they chant to themselves. The fact is there is very little that we know for certain and the vast majority of our so called knowledge is, to some degree or another, based on faith. Logic only takes us from assumptions to conclusions, and so these so called proofs are no more that rationalizations of what we have already decided to believe.


    P.S. Jeremy, obviously, now judges all religion as guilty of the same intolerance, while he himself has hardly changed since leaving the JWs, modifying his intolerance only to include the JWs as well. I suppose it is only natural. Long membership in a group like that is bound to have a lasting effect on the way we think. I too see the influence of my long membership in the moonies on the way I think as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I hope you have some evidence for brainwashing.
    Sadly Truth, every JW I know suffers from this (including Jeremy 'Pfft' ). Using religion is probably the easiest way to brainwash someone.

    Regards,
    william
    Wow...you were a JW william? Totally explains your actions. No, wait, probably more of a conservative evangelical Christian fundamentalist type.
    Cute....
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  21. #20  
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    JW? JW? I am not familiar with this acronym.


    I meen, Jehova Witnesses, yea, those are annoying arent they?

    I wonder what other words could start with JW, can anyone help me out? any suggestion? :wink:
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    JW? I am not familiar with this acronym.
    I think it's Jerky Weigh-anchor ....
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    JW? I am not familiar with this acronym.
    I think it's Jerky Weigh-anchor ....
    Oh oh, thats a good one, Ive got others to propose...

    , Jesus Worshiper, Jewish Wall-of-lamentationist, Jesuit Wonderer,

    Back to the real topic of Jewova Witnessess, my parents saw some of these once, I'll tell you about it in my next post...
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    JW? I am not familiar with this acronym.
    I think it's Jerky Weigh-anchor ....
    That clearly was pulled out of your hat, I have never hear of such a thing, nice try.

    Its probably a religious related group like, Jesus Worshiper, Jewish Wall-of-lamentationist, Jesuit Wonderer, Jehova Witness, hum, I think that really exist and that's how its called, is that it? Jehova Witnesses those that knock on doors on sundays? My parents saw some of these once.
    Your parents saw them? I thought they deny being earthly, usually when they knock on the door I finish my meal then go an answer it, it there's nobody there the I know it was them - make sense?

    Or it could be Jay-Walker (they never seem to arrive in cars)....
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  25. #24  
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    You're not going to give a break will you?

    Just kidding, yes Jay-Walkers, good one. How about Junior Wanker. lol


    ok now back to JW,

    as I was about to say,

    in the 80s when my parents were selling their house the realter called and said he couldnt come but that some clients interested in buying the house would come and visit during the day (this happened to be on a sunday).

    wouldnt you know it a man and a women did come to our house, my parents invited them in and they were surprisingly pleased. My mother offered tea as they sat in the living room making chit chat. When they started talking about god (instead of the house) is the moment where the misunderstanding was realized...
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    You're not going to give a break will you?
    He may think you are just joking. I still half think you are just joking because Jehova Witness has been spelled out several times in this thread. The topic has come up because of our new participant Truth1010 is a Jehova Witness come as a representative of God to make straight the way of Lord for all us lost sheep.
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  27. #26  
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    I still half think you are just joking because Jehova Witness has been spelled out several times in this thread.
    the thread about Thruth10...

    oh crap


    yeah, ho ho ho, good one I was just kidding, the answer was right above my first post and plain to see, you must have thought I was joking and indeed I was, oh oh. Quick! Look over there!


    (quick, time to go back for orwellian editing)

    (ok, it might just work, there might not be any other witnesses, if I can just kidnap Megabrain and Mitch to cause amnesia I just might get away with it.)
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    And we all missed the very obvious 'Jedi Warrior' avatar of the ex-jw!
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    P.S. Jeremy, obviously, now judges all religion as guilty of the same intolerance
    You know mitch, with all the "debating" you've done, I'd have expected you to...y'know....be logical enough to not make blind assumptions. I'm not quite sure where exactly you GOT that assumption, but I'm getting tired of everybody making them. I have explained numerous times why assumptions such as those are illogical, yet nobody appears to grasp it.

    So I will leave you with this: I guess you know me best, since you've managed to read some amount of written text, take it the incorrect way, assume a few traits about it, and from that are able to gauge my entire personality based on your perceptions.

    Now does that get the message across, or do I have to hammer it in further?

    , while he himself has hardly changed since leaving the JWs, modifying his intolerance only to include the JWs as well. I suppose it is only natural. Long membership in a group like that is bound to have a lasting effect on the way we think. I too see the influence of my long membership in the moonies on the way I think as well.
    ...okay, wait, so your entire "PS" is a personally directed assault on my behavior. Gee, how intelligent are you!

    Let me make the following generalizations about your behavior, based on blind guesswork and perception. Same accuracy, same results, and maybe then you'll get the basic idea of how wrong you are when you continually apply your scientific methods for your own purposes. That is, assuming your deduction methods even resemble something scientific:

    When someone disagrees with you in a somewhat hostile way, or they appear to be directing a conversation down a route where one person hostly disagrees with another, it gives you the perfect opportunity to add in some phrase that will both elevate one persons "side" of the discussion, and personally attack the other persons behavioral patterns so that their side of the discussion loses any and all favor (regardless of accuracy).

    In doing so, it allows you to inflate your previously damaged ego from past mistakes, while at the same time weaken your "enemies" ego, since he apparently has different views than you and he is wrong. The intensity of those views automatically makes you assume that they carry on certain traits from prior establishments, and you can carry the persons own argument against them by claiming (along with another member no less) that said person holds those charictaristics.

    After this action is complete you can sit back, along with a few others, and allow your ego's to bask in the glory of the fact you have "attacked" someone successfully. After which, you can continue the discussion by simply ignoring whatever the person says, or take it out of context, so that it can be used in your favor.

    All of the above behavior traits roll into a few psychological evaluations: As a child, you weren't complimented enough. Rather than being logically explained, you were personally attacked and now seek comfort from doing the same to others in order to belittle the overall message they convey.

    Your parents, or friends, may have also hated certain types of strong behavior and generalized it as something it is not. Thus, you carry on those traits with your "new" personality, so that you can do the same to others when they appear to view something more strongly than you. Also, according to the style in which you typed the message, it is quite clear you wish to avoid directly slandering someone in a vulgar manner. This suggests someone in your life did so continually to the point it left damage.

    And finally, the context in which it was in, ignoring the overall message and focusing on one behavior trait in which you believe to be correct (despite not even being a psychologist, no less), leads me to believe that you are incapable of logically deductive searching when it comes to personality traits, largely due to the possible fact that you were raised in an atmosphere that had little emotional intelligence or psychology involved.
    Which could also mean that your atmosphere lacked love, caring, was abusive in some way, or that you suffer from some disorder.

    Thus, the following message: Don't assume things. What I've written above is about as likely as a nun flying, which is about the accuracy of your assumed statements so far.

    Now, I would do the same for william, but perhaps he will get the basic idea of what I'm saying. Since he appears to be the master assumer in PM's.
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  30. #29 Christianity 
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    I came across this website while reading up on religion. Maybe some of you may already know it but it's created by this guy who seem's rather bitter about life and religion because of what he's been through with it.

    He's quite a smart guy who's gone out of his way to study religion and it's holy book's in order to come up with his conclusion (and what a conclusion it is..)

    He really rip's into Christianity but I found his essay's interesting and he does have a point in what he's saying. I don't know, see for yourselves...

    http://mindprod.com/religion/noah.html
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    Some vicious personal insults there. This im afraid shows that the points ive made here are right. And have clearly scared a few apostates on the forum.

    As jesus said " if i have said something untrue then bare witness to it, if not, why are you hitting me?"

    When i come across this anti jw feeling i know that you have seen that my points are true and you are unable to deal with this.

    Evolution has been proven scientificly impossible. Biology has clearly shown that all creatures are programmed to reproduce only their own species.

    Backing up what the bible says " all creatures give birth to their own species in great variety."

    If catholics or protestants or muslims or jews are gods people why do the kill one another?

    Jesus said " if you love me youll obey my commandments. I command you that you shall not kill."

    Im afraid there is no escaping the reality of the above statements. Yes jw are gods people. Yes we speak the truth.

    Go to this website and actually read a few articles. This will help you understand what we believe. Instead of listening to bitter ex members who are filled with prejudice towards the meek of the earth.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
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  32. #31  
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    'Truth' - Yours and a million other religions claim to be the true light, at least us atheists all swear by a single evolutionary theory, [which goes back further than JW's] - insults where? All I see is few light hearted references to a group of saddies who, in truth, probably don't like spending money, so they avoid christmas, parties, and all other fun in life.

    Did your Jesus say "don't have a good time, don't have fun, don't celebrate my birthday" - I think not, he himself had a head bender of a party with a dozen other blokes [odd that no girls], was he er you know, pre-disposed towards men?.

    So come on get real, there may have been a long haired hippie called jesus, but the son of God? - no.

    So come on, ther's still a few days to stock up with booze, I'm sure he'd appreciate a toast in his honor while sitting on dad's knee....
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    'Truth' - Yours and a million other religions claim to be the true light, at least us atheists all swear by a single evolutionary theory, [which goes back further than JW's] - insults where? All I see is few light hearted references to a group of saddies who, in truth, probably don't like spending money, so they avoid christmas, parties, and all other fun in life.
    Hmm...nice, you DID bounce the poo off the wall before you hit him...I guess I'll pass it without bitching. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Evolution has been proven scientificly impossible. Biology has clearly shown that all creatures are programmed to reproduce only their own species.
    Actually, current biology supports evolution. Quit believing in lies, and go to those websites I gave you in a previous post. I wont bother saying what I said again, since the same things I said applies here.

    If catholics or protestants or muslims or jews are gods people why do the kill one another?
    The bible states to kill blasphemers. The quran states to kill infidels (basically blasphemers). They are basically fulfilling what the bible says to do.

    Jesus said " if you love me youll obey my commandments. I command you that you shall not kill."
    contradiction to the above.

    Im afraid there is no escaping the reality of the above statements. Yes jw are gods people. Yes we speak the truth.
    You've only proven that you speak ignorance and lies, as well as half truths. Do you know that "wolf in sheeps clothing" bit? Well, brother, you have proven it true, since you wear the sheeps skin of "peace" while filling people with lies.

    Go to this website and actually read a few articles. This will help you understand what we believe. Instead of listening to bitter ex members who are filled with prejudice towards the meek of the earth.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
    ...Instead of listening to said bitter ex member who provided support for his claims rather than ad-hominems and ignorant statements. You have utterly avoided directly replying to anything I have said, and instead have taken a "better than thou" stance.

    Classic JW, which I described above. You have not proven me wrong, you have proven me CORRECT in my assumptions. Not only that, but you apparently refuse to even go to the websites I provided, and shove them off as lies.

    So, yeah, don't you have something better to do than prove I was right?
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    Megabrain youre name is clearly light humour.

    Yes calling us saddos is an insult or threatening to hit us with baseball bats is. It doent help the youre case.

    As for the half cocked points you made. Well jw do have fun and enjoy ourselves. Evolutionists havent agreed on one theory for over a hundred years. They constantly contradict each other and disagree on most pooints of the evolution theory.

    Jehovahs witnesses have been around since abel. The "first witness of god." Long before evolutionism, the religion of darwin.
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    Truth1010 wrote:

    Evolution has been proven scientificly impossible. Biology has clearly shown that all creatures are programmed to reproduce only their own species.


    Actually, current biology supports evolution. Quit believing in lies, and go to those websites I gave you in a previous post. I wont bother saying what I said again, since the same things I said applies here.

    Quote:

    If catholics or protestants or muslims or jews are gods people why do the kill one another?


    The bible states to kill blasphemers. The quran states to kill infidels (basically blasphemers). They are basically fulfilling what the bible says to do.

    Quote:

    Jesus said " if you love me youll obey my commandments. I command you that you shall not kill."


    contradiction to the above.
    Jeremy please read what youve just written. If you dont understand how stupid and contradictory what youve said is then i feel im going to struggle with you.

    As im guessing you will make me struggle with you. Here ill help.

    Can you show me the scripture that says blastphemers should be killed by humans?
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Megabrain youre name is clearly light humour.

    Yes calling us saddos is an insult or threatening to hit us with baseball bats is. It doent help the youre case.

    As for the half cocked points you made. Well jw do have fun and enjoy ourselves. Evolutionists havent agreed on one theory for over a hundred years. They constantly contradict each other and disagree on most pooints of the evolution theory.

    Jehovahs witnesses have been around since abel. The "first witness of god." Long before evolutionism, the religion of darwin.
    Actually, the one link I gave, which is HERE:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...%27s_Witnesses

    says they began in the 1870's or so.

    Truth vs. faith: truth wins. Stop having FAITH in what you are saying and start RESEARCHING them.

    Also, the "evolutionists haven't agreed on one theory" is from that evolution book I mentioned. Funny thing is...biologists agree that it happened, but as with EVERY OTHER SCIENTIFIC THEORY - they don't agree on HOW it happened.

    There is so much WRONG with what you are saying I'm having trouble continuing...

    to the above post of yours:
    Kill Blasphemers



    For four days Maccabeus and his men eagerly besieged the fortress. Those inside, relying on the strength of the place, kept repeating outrageous blasphemies and uttering abominable words. When the fifth day dawned, twenty young men in the army of Maccabeus, angered over such blasphemies, bravely stormed the wall and with savage fury cut down everyone they encountered. Others who climbed up the same way swung around on the defenders, taking the besieged in the rear; they put the towers to the torch, spread the fire and burned the blasphemers alive. Still others broke down the gates and let in the rest of the troops, who took possession of the city. Timothy had hidden in a cistern, but they killed him, along with his brother Chaereas, and Apollophanes. On completing these exploits, they blessed, with hymns of grateful praise, the Lord who shows great kindness to Israel and grants them victory. (2 Maccabees 10:33-38 NAB)
    Yay. I can also find a few others which state humans should kill blasphemers.

    such as:
    BIBLICAL DEATH PENALTY: (part 23) KILL BLASPHEMERS - Leviticus 24:16
    "Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death."
    You have just made a fool of yourself. Woo. Especially since, as shown in context there, it's specifically speaking of human entities.
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    Funny thing is...biologists agree that it happened, but as with EVERY OTHER SCIENTIFIC THEORY - they don't agree on HOW it happened.
    So they agree it happened but have no idea how what they agreed happened happened. How exactly do they know it happened?

    Every scientific theory has not been correct has it?

    lol i really dont need to reply to that do i?

    Abel the bible states was the first witness of god. Jehovahs witnesses are following in the line of christians and truth seekers from the time of abel. Abel the son of adam and eve the first people.

    My posts have real truth and are always backed up. Maybe instead of insulting me you can prove what ive said to be wrong.

    Leviticus is from the old testament. Christianity was set up in the new testament. Matthew onwards.

    That wooo is slightly muffled right about now, im guessing.
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  38. #37  
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    Hi Truth,
    I'll chime in with one of my major criticisms (if not thee major criticism...) of the JWs;

    It is not moral to force your children to become JWs before they are capable of deciding this for themselves.

    When many of them get older, they may no longer want to be a JW and you all turn your backs on them (ostracize them that is...). Basically, you force something on them and then (and only when they are capable of making their own decisions) if they decide to leave they are punished. They are punished for something they had no choice in! Jesus would never do this....

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    So they agree it happened but have no idea how what they agreed happened happened. How exactly do they know it happened?
    ...I'm going to scream. They agree that it happened since the evidence for it (an example was the link to transitional fossils and evolution as well as talkorigins), but there are a few differing theories on HOW it happens. Few of the mainstream theories contradict eachother, most of them aim to complete eachother.

    And they know it happened due to the evidence. Woo. Go evidence. evidence which creationists that refuse evolution ignore. (usually anyway. Again, I can't make a complete generalization. :P)

    Abel the bible states was the first witness of god. Jehovahs witnesses are following in the line of christians and truth seekers from the time of abel. Abel the son of adam and eve the first people.
    Fact: The bible was written around 100 A.D. I could give you wiki sources and such regarding the dead sea scrolls, but you'll ignore them anyway so what's the use. Also, there is no evidence adam, abel, eve, or 90% of the other bible characters even existed.

    My posts have real truth and are always backed up. Maybe instead of insulting me you can prove what ive said to be wrong.
    ...umm...I have, and I've barely insulted you. Furthermore, nobody here is backing up your posts, since they're not truth.

    Jesus hell...
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Megabrain youre name is clearly light humour.

    Yes calling us saddos is an insult or threatening to hit us with baseball bats is. It doent help the youre case.

    As for the half cocked points you made. Well jw do have fun and enjoy ourselves. Evolutionists havent agreed on one theory for over a hundred years. They constantly contradict each other and disagree on most pooints of the evolution theory.

    Jehovahs witnesses have been around since abel. The "first witness of god." Long before evolutionism, the religion of darwin.
    Help my case?

    Hell I'm not trying to convert anyone, it's you guys who go banging on doors interrupting the private time of many families. I couldn't give a toss if every other person in the world was a Jedi Warrior.
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    William we dont baptise at birth. You have to choose yourself to be baptised.

    Only after being baptised can you be disfellowshipped.

    Only by commiting a crime can you be disfellowshipped. If you choose to leave you are no different from any other non jw. We would talk to you and as normal.

    We do not speak ill of people whove left. We hope they come back, but it is their choice.
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    William we dont baptise at birth. You have to choose yourself to be baptised.
    You have to be 16 to drive. 18 to vote. 21 to drink. (In the US anyway....)

    At what age will you let the child decide this? If 6 is OK, or 10, or 16, you might as well do it at birth. Would you let a 15 year old decide what's best for you? Do you get what I'm saying?

    Only after being baptised can you be disfellowshipped.

    Only by commiting a crime can you be disfellowshipped. If you choose to leave you are no different from any other non jw. We would talk to you and as normal.
    I knew two JW kids that left the hall. They both had severe problems with their very own parents! (These were two separate families by the way....)

    We do not speak ill of people whove left. We hope they come back, but it is their choice.
    Are you new to the religion? I'm not trying to be sarcastic - it's just that I believe this is not true what you say.

    Jeremy, is that true from what you know?

    cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    You have to be 16 to drive. 18 to vote. 21 to drink. (In the US anyway....)

    At what age will you let the child decide this? If 6 is OK, or 10, or 16, you might as well do it at birth. Would you let a 15 year old decide what's best for you? Do you get what I'm saying?
    William, normally it's over 20 when someone is baptised. >.>

    I knew two JW kids that left the hall. They both had severe problems with their very own parents! (These were two separate families by the way....)
    that's because their parents attempt to convert them back continually and ignore what they say. Similar to truth ignoring what we're saying. Also, parents can choose to impose problems on the children if they leave.

    Are you new to the religion? I'm not trying to be sarcastic - it's just that I believe this is not true what you say.

    Jeremy, is that true from what you know?

    cheers
    Well, what you say isn't very true. It sort of is in some aspects, but I think you should leave it up to people that WERE JW's. Since I understand their philosophies and actions better.

    However, as usual, your assumptions make you look like an ass. ;P but yes what he said is true, it's fully their choice. Although their parents and friends from the congregation may act a leetle differently...or completely stop associating with them all together.

    It really depends on the type of congregation and what area. In some, you get the egotistical "holier than thou" ones, in others you have level-headed ones. It differs vastly.
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  44. #43  
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    OK.

    I stand corrected.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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    As a jw we have to choose for ourselves when WE want to be baptised. That may be 13 or 48. But individualy we make the choice.

    Now if we were to baptise at birth, a baby cannot choose to be baptised. A 13 year old can choose. Of course at 17 they may change their mind. Just as a 48 may change their mind at 50.


    But jesus was baptised at 30. Not at birth. Baptism in the bible is a choice not a tradition.
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    Another reason for so many Christian sects is that the Bible is so inconsistent. For some thirteen centuries, the Church managed that problem by keeping “The Good Book” out of the hands of the people and just preaching to them.

    In the 15th century, one Pope even tried to re-write the Bible to make it more consistent!

    Disillusioned with the Church because “God had failed to protect his people from the Plague,” meant, in the 15th century, that the Church could no longer control the situation and the Bible fell into the hands of the common man. With all the inconsistencies then exposed to everyone, everyone could and did come to see the Bible differently.

    It seems to me that a religion should be based upon teachings that are at least consistent. . . .

    Charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
    Brough,
    civilization-overview (dot) com

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    There are no accidents, just someone taking too much risk. . . (CB)
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    When the bible is read and studied properly. Then there are no contradictions and its never inconsistent.

    The bible states that the holy spirit is the spirit of the truth. You need to ask god for this spirit to fully understand the bible. As a person with poor sight is helped by wearing glasses.

    tudying the bible alone with gods spirit or with a jehovahs witness will help.
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  48. #47  
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    OTHER GUY: "Truth1010 says there are no inconsistencies in the Bible."

    MYSELF: "I wonder why he is so set on posting this simplistic stuff on real scientists!"

    OTHER GUY: "Perhaps he hasn't got the stomach to go around door to door and preach to people like he is supposed to. He can make his points easier this way."

    MYSELF: "OH, he probably does preach on street corner also, but you do make a good point. I would hate to have to go around ringing on door bells and bothering good people at home. I am always polite when they come and cut off disussion quickly and politely so I don't waste their time any more than I waste my own. I admire how they dig up the most formal clothes they have and put them on as best they can!

    OTHER GUY: "Do you ever read any of their stuff?"

    MYSELF: "Oh yes. A good friend of mine gave me a bunch of the stuff a month ago and I look at it now and then. Its fun to see how well they research issues and then see how they gradually subvert and twist around the actual evidence. I do things like this to keep my mind sharp. I have a fear of growing old and becoming simplistic like so many believers actually are and even want to be."

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
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