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Thread: Why should it matter not to believe in God?

  1. #201  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    My claim to fame?

    Apart from you, I have empathy.
    Prove it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    My claim to fame?

    Apart from you, I have empathy.
    Prove it.
    In the immortal words of AlexG "Pervert gets banned, pervert shows up someplace to defend his perversion." From your intro thread.


    Well, when I called you a sexual predator... I never got suspended from sciforums for constantly PM'ing a female teenager (two pages back it starts.)

    PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> Life First Started On Planet Mercury?



    I''m also not the one who posted underage teenage eroticism on sciforums and telling ME you are getting sexually aroused.

    PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> Does Youtube Allow Pornography?
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  3. #203  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    My claim to fame?

    Apart from you, I have empathy.
    Prove it.
    In the immortal words of AlexG "Pervert gets banned, pervert shows up someplace to defend his perversion." From your intro thread.


    Well, when I called you a sexual predator... I never got suspended from sciforums for constantly PM'ing a female teenager (two pages back it starts.)

    PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> Life First Started On Planet Mercury?



    I''m also not the one who posted underage teenage eroticism on sciforums and telling ME you are getting sexually aroused.

    PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> Does Youtube Allow Pornography?
    I knew you had no empathy toward me, but I wanted proof that you have this supposed empathy toward others.
    That is what I want to see proof of. Not more of your hatred toward me.

    Has AlexG passed on?
    AlexG is not God is he? So why would you treat his words as Eternal Truth? My PMs to her - I have nothing to be ashamed of, and she openly admitted to you she is not a teenager. Why are you so locked into the view that she is a teenager? There was/is a photo on the forum of her with her daughter. Are you ill informed? On that Physforum page I gave AlexG the Levin Police number and offered him to ring them, for I have nothing to hide.

    I never posted underage teenage eroticism on sciforums. That is a slanderous lie. I only pointed out that they had underage teenage eroticism on sciforums and the mods were doing nothing about it, and I got a lifetime ban for doing that. They will be pleased you are bringing it up again.

    I admitted there was a YouTube video that came close, so what? Yet YouTube is supposed to have a no pornography policy. It had me a little baffled as to how they determine their cutoff point.

    Show me you have empathy for anyone else please.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; November 22nd, 2013 at 11:08 PM.
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  4. #204  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Well, when I called you a sexual predator... I never got suspended from sciforums for constantly PM'ing a female teenager (two pages back it starts.)
    Not my place to talk about other members. I do not know Robittybob nor do I care. However in a forum with a population of a small city, it wouldn't surprise me if the demographic is similar to that of any city on the planet. The odds are that this forum has at one time or another had its fair share of perverts and deviants running through it. Did I forget idiots? Silly me.

    I think some people get themselves into hot water because they desperately want to contribute to the forum. It's psychological. Hastily consulting Wiki and rephrasing information gathered to make it seem as if you are knowledgeable leaves the poster vulnerable when questioned on it. There is a ripple effect similar to one lie compounding another lie. Liars tend to forget past lies but posters who try and manipulate sources like Wiki to their own benefit tend to believe that they are growing more knowledgeable with every article they scan. I think this is a reason why posters end up being idiots. They get in too deep and eventually have to get personal to either change the subject or to deflect attention away from their own inadequacies.

    Edit: in an effort to stay on topic I will suggest that biblical text and its variety of interpretations are subject to the same rules.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; November 22nd, 2013 at 10:35 PM.
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    I think it's fine and normal to get just ever slightly off-topic in a discussion thread, but you folks are pushing it with all the unrelated casual chitchat and baggage from other forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    I think it's fine and normal to get just ever slightly off-topic in a discussion thread, but you folks are pushing it with all the unrelated casual chitchat and baggage from other forums.
    Empathy, truth, justice, honor and virtue, are all attributes of this matter that also believes in God.
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    What little details are fudged, the reason why you were permanently banned is public record on the Scirforum website:

    Continuously posting and commenting of child/underage pornographic content and that which sexualized underage kids despite repeated warnings to stop. Harassment of moderation staff despite repeated requests for cessation of activities.

    I told you not to talk to me, don't ever PM me. That was to give you a chance -that was empathy. I entertained the thought that maybe you were a total retard and couldn't help it. If you'd had listened, we wouldn't have had this delightful side topic.

    http://www.sciforums.com/banlist.php
    Last edited by Beer w/Straw; November 22nd, 2013 at 10:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    What little details are fudged, the reason why you were permanently banned is public record on the Scirforum website:

    Continuously posting and commenting of child/underage pornographic content and that which sexualized underage kids despite repeated warnings to stop. Harassment of moderation staff despite repeated requests for cessation of activities.

    I told you not to talk to me, don't ever PM me. That was to give you a chance -that was empathy. I entertained the thought that maybe you were a total retard and couldn't help it. If you'd had listened, we wouldn't have had this delightful side topic.
    Do you think that just because that was written there that it is truth? The same matter that believes in God believes in truth. I claim it was untrue what they wrote, well the way you read it at least, for it is rather ambiguous in fact.
    You only repeat the same untruth. Do you care about the truth or not?
    You searched for God in Pi, you'd do better by searching for the truth.
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  9. #209  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    I removed the pic here of my daughter and me, as I just posted it momentarily in the spirit of the photo thread.What happened on sci forums happened and it's over. Beer, I'm not friends with Robittybob, but neither is he my enemy. He pm'd me the other day a simple hello, I replied in kind. But beyond that, I have nothing else to say. What has gone on with others in pm, I don't know. To be honest, I don't even think about that whole thing until I read about it over and over in the forums.

    Robbitybob, you would most likely still be an active member at sci forums if you had just owned the porn posting and apologized for foolishly posting it. Instead of pulling out examples (of others' infractions to defend your porn posting) We are all adults. When you muck up, just own it and apologize. Who hasn't looked at porn? That wasn't the issue. The issue was, you posting it on the forum and defending it. And then it all went downhill in a hurry. Anyway, enough said. Think this horse is a skeleton now, that's how long everyone has been beating it. :/

    Robbitybob, I wish you good things and all I ask in return is to not bring my name up anymore. I have nothing to do with your banning and I'd kindly ask others to stop alluding to me, going forward. Thank you.
    Last edited by wegs; November 22nd, 2013 at 11:15 PM.
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    He never apologized to me, I can tell you that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    He never apologized to me, I can tell you that.
    Sorry to you, and thank you. But as far as Beer w/Straw goes, I have never said a bad word against her. Well not that I can recall, so I'd have no idea as to what I'd be apologising for.

    An apology for nothing is not an apology is it? God is truth, so I will only say things I believe are true. The matter that believes in God believes in truth.
    I had read the original question in this thread and sorry it did get a bit lost in the woodwork.
    "So did Russell misinterpret it when he read that the fool has said in his heart there is no God?

    I would not come to the same conclusion as Russell did.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; November 22nd, 2013 at 11:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    God is truth
    Supposition.

    The matter that believes in God believes in truth.
    Also supposition.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    God is truth
    Supposition.

    The matter that believes in God believes in truth.
    Also supposition.
    Am I forbidden from making suppositions?

    I believe in God and I believe in truth. You may believe that it is all supposition, but you are still only a ball of molecules like I am, so if I say it is true and you say it is untrue we are both none the wiser, and no one can determine who is right or wrong just from their own understanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Am I forbidden from making suppositions?
    You didn't state it as a supposition.

    so if I say it is true and you say it is untrue we are both none the wiser, and no one can determine who is right or wrong just from their own understanding.
    So you're saying it IS true, and NOT a supposition?
    If you're claiming it's true then you obviously have evidence.
    Please present it.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Am I forbidden from making suppositions?
    You didn't state it as a supposition.

    so if I say it is true and you say it is untrue we are both none the wiser, and no one can determine who is right or wrong just from their own understanding.
    So you're saying it IS true, and NOT a supposition?
    If you're claiming it's true then you obviously have evidence.
    Please present it.
    It is a bit of both. A bit of "evidence" and a bit of supposition. Well what powers of influence do you have? You get me reinstated on Sciforums and get them to replace my "Beautiful Christian Songs" thread in the Religion subforum and you will see the proof. Did you read it before it was deleted?
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    It is a bit of both. A bit of "evidence"
    Please present it.

    You get me reinstated on Sciforums and get them to replace my "Beautiful Christian Songs" thread in the Religion subforum and you will see the proof. Did you read it before it was deleted?
    I haven't been on Sciforums for over a year. I no longer post there, I no longer participate.
    And, as far as I'm concerned, the fewer forums you post on the better.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    It is a bit of both. A bit of "evidence"
    Please present it.

    You get me reinstated on Sciforums and get them to replace my "Beautiful Christian Songs" thread in the Religion subforum and you will see the proof. Did you read it before it was deleted?
    I haven't been on Sciforums for over a year. I no longer post there, I no longer participate.
    And, as far as I'm concerned, the fewer forums you post on the better.
    That is rather a bad attitude. We are both members abiding by the rules. You ask me for proof but you don't really want to read it.

    Did you read "Beautiful Christian Songs" thread in the Religion subforum? You can still read it without being on Sciforums. Have you been banned from there too?

    If you haven't you might be able to make the request for me, please.

    How do you feel about the question in the OP?
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  18. #218  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    That is rather a bad attitude. We are both members abiding by the rules.
    What does "abiding by the rules" have to do it?
    You post nonsense.

    You ask me for proof but you don't really want to read it.
    Have you presented it? Here?

    Did you read "Beautiful Christian Songs" thread in the Religion subforum?
    The one on this forum?
    No evidence provided.

    Have you been banned from there too?
    No. I asked to be, but they didn't ban me.

    If you haven't you might be able to make the request for me, please.
    One more time: even if I could I wouldn't.
    If you didn't post I suspect the average IQ of the world would rise slightly.
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    Why should it matter not to believe in God? Because you say, "I am rich and wealthy and in need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. Rev. 3:17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    Why should it matter not to believe in God? Because you say, "I am rich and wealthy and in need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. Rev. 3:17
    People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
    Winnie the Pooh.

    See? I can quote meaningless rubbish too.
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    I don't like defining myself. I just am.

    Britney Spears.
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    Hey, being naked isn't all that bad!! Book of Babe Chapter 3 Verse 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hey, being naked isn't all that bad!! Book of Babe Chapter 3 Verse 2
    Bonnie and Clyde performance tonight. The best ever,it was great.

    Naked is OK as long as it isn't humiliation. I think you can see what the story is Babe. It is just like I told you. You can see who is hovering around just off forum too. Why? Why? Why?

    I think I know why and it has nothing to do with my behaviour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hey, being naked isn't all that bad!! Book of Babe Chapter 3 Verse 2
    Bonnie and Clyde performance tonight. The best ever,it was great.

    Naked is OK as long as it isn't humiliation. I think you can see what the story is Babe. It is just like I told you. You can see who is hovering around just off forum too. Why? Why? Why?

    I think I know why and it has nothing to do with my behaviour.
    Well this is for you to sort out and me not to be in the middle of. I have had no problems with you in any way shape or form, other than we don't agree on some things. That is fine also. My naked comment had nothing to do with any of that!......It was just a response to someone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hey, being naked isn't all that bad!! Book of Babe Chapter 3 Verse 2
    Bonnie and Clyde performance tonight. The best ever,it was great.

    Naked is OK as long as it isn't humiliation. I think you can see what the story is Babe. It is just like I told you. You can see who is hovering around just off forum too. Why? Why? Why?

    I think I know why and it has nothing to do with my behaviour.
    Well this is for you to sort out and me not to be in the middle of. I have had no problems with you in any way shape or form, other than we don't agree on some things. That is fine also. My naked comment had nothing to do with any of that!......It was just a response to someone else.
    But it is still true, no one wants to be humiliated.
    We haven't discussed the things we don't agree on, we steer clear of it. I think all of us have made progress today, and I'm reasonably happy.

    Dydwyyder will never be happy. I don't think it is possible for a duck to smile as his lips are made from stiff keratin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Dydwyyder will never be happy. I don't think it is possible for a duck to smile as his lips are made from stiff keratin.
    I'll be happy if either:
    A) you actually support your claims, or
    B) you stop posting crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hey, being naked isn't all that bad!! Book of Babe Chapter 3 Verse 2
    Bonnie and Clyde performance tonight. The best ever,it was great.

    Naked is OK as long as it isn't humiliation. I think you can see what the story is Babe. It is just like I told you. You can see who is hovering around just off forum too. Why? Why? Why?

    I think I know why and it has nothing to do with my behaviour.
    Well this is for you to sort out and me not to be in the middle of. I have had no problems with you in any way shape or form, other than we don't agree on some things. That is fine also. My naked comment had nothing to do with any of that!......It was just a response to someone else.
    But it is still true, no one wants to be humiliated.
    We haven't discussed the things we don't agree on, we steer clear of it. I think all of us have made progress today, and I'm reasonably happy.

    Dydwyyder will never be happy. I don't think it is possible for a duck to smile as his lips are made from stiff keratin.
    Glad you think progress has been made.
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  28. #228  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So what is your claim to fame? I know 1 + 1 = 2
    Is that a good start?
    Err..how can you be so sure that 1 + 1 = 2?
    Russell, along with Whitehead tried to prove it in Principia Mathematica. Some would argue they didn't quite succeed, even in 300+ pages. Along with just about everyone else I've not read it either. Falls short of Godel's incompleteness theorem, Popper's philosophy or whatever. Please enlighten.
    Now if you can't prove that 1 + 1 = 2, then what hope has anyone got to prove or disprove the existence of God?
    My argument is that any discussion about theism vs atheism is bound to fail. The fool did not say in his head there is no God, he said it in his heart. The heart is not the seat of logic. It is a way of referring to the seat of emotion.
    Everything is open to interpretation or misinterpretation. The Neckar Cube. 'Atheists are revolting'. Should it matter not to believe in God (depending on the punctuation).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Err..how can you be so sure that 1 + 1 = 2?
    Russell, along with Whitehead tried to prove it in Principia Mathematica.
    I'm fairly sure that Russell had no problem with the formalization of basic arithmetic as it had already been done by Peano. It was trying to develop a complete formalization of all of mathematics that he had a problem with (c.f. Goedel).

    So the fact that 1 + 1 = 2 can be proved (based on the definition of 0 and the successor function).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    My argument is that any discussion about theism vs atheism is bound to fail.
    So, agnostic then?
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  31. #231  
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    I hold an agnostic view now. I think it's a good ''position,'' since I can't be certain one way or the other, if God exists. He/It may. He/It may not. (or they may not) To me, I no longer have a 'need' to know. GUess we all have to find our own comfort level with it.
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    Me, I'm having a conflict in my faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Err..how can you be so sure that 1 + 1 = 2?
    Russell, along with Whitehead tried to prove it in Principia Mathematica.
    I'm fairly sure that Russell had no problem with the formalization of basic arithmetic as it had already been done by Peano. It was trying to develop a complete formalization of all of mathematics that he had a problem with (c.f. Goedel).

    So the fact that 1 + 1 = 2 can be proved (based on the definition of 0 and the successor function).
    Thanks cause if 1+1 = 3.....Grade school children are SCREWED!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Edit: I see now you did in fact credit Dr. Mirus. My sincere apologies. -> Why should it matter not to believe in God?
    I am not apologising
    I don't think it is clear that the text is quoted from that source. Things like an explicit statement that it was someone else's words, quotation marks or quote tags, and a link would have been a good idea.
    While it was a block of text, he clearly did attribute the quote to Mirus.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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    Still didn't address Duck's question and is seemingly contrary to posters beliefs.

    But I took advantage of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Still didn't address Duck's question and is seemingly contrary to posters beliefs.

    But I took advantage of it.
    Dydwddyr doesn't pay me enough. We are all sinners at times.
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    The question, or the point of the thread.. What does it mater ?
    It maters to the scientific mind that such can be even contemplated as true of that which can not be.
    Authenticity of scientific revue is important to the point and method of being honest of revue and inquiry.
    I find it difficult to endure the religious concept as it is very unscientific. That in a science forum I demand a scientific view.
    That it goes to credibility.. It maters.
    Last edited by astromark; November 25th, 2013 at 03:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    We moderns don't like to admit there is anything we don't know. We experience a kind of dreadful insecurity in admitting ignorance. And the suggestion that somebody else might know more than we do is a terrible affront to our pride. .
    A simple Google search clearly shows you are pulling from another place.

    You should both indicate that it came from somewhere else and cite the source.

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    My post CLEARLY gave credit to Jeff Mirus-I sure hope some of you don't run your "scientific" experiments this way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    My post CLEARLY gave credit to Jeff Mirus-I sure hope some of you don't run your "scientific" experiments this way.
    Just make it clearer in the future, set off somehow such as quotes, an extra spaced line with a different font etc, to avoid confusion.
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    My post CLEARLY gave credit to Jeff Mirus-I sure hope some of you don't run your "scientific" experiments this way.
    Just make it clearer in the future, set off somehow such as quotes, an extra spaced line with a different font etc, to avoid confusion.
    Thank you.

    Thank YOU Lynx_Fox. I would love to comply as the website allows. Many of us are experiencing difficulties posting as there is a
    glitch that arranges things strangely after submission.
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    Pi is the human attempt to define a circle with a square. The two are not compatible. What does a circle look like defined in terms of a triangle I wonder?
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    We tolerate strangers less or more than strange opinions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    My post CLEARLY gave credit to Jeff Mirus-I sure hope some of you don't run your "scientific" experiments this way.
    Just make it clearer in the future, set off somehow such as quotes, an extra spaced line with a different font etc, to avoid confusion.
    Thank you.

    Thank YOU Lynx_Fox. I would love to comply as the website allows. Many of us are experiencing difficulties posting as there is a
    glitch that arranges things strangely after submission.
    It took people helping me to get the gist of it....this is much more complicated than most places I am in. But it works in the end!
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  45. #245  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Pi is the human attempt to define a circle with a square. The two are not compatible. What does a circle look like defined in terms of a triangle I wonder?

    Could you rephrase that?
    I am afraid I do not understand your input.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinky View Post
    My post CLEARLY gave credit to Jeff Mirus-I sure hope some of you don't run your "scientific" experiments this way.
    At the moment, I am reviewing research reports. If they were as sloppy in their citations, they would be rejected.
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  47. #247  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Pi is the human attempt to define a circle with a square.
    Pi has nothing to do with a square. It is simply the ratio of diameter (annoyingly) to circumference. Where does a square come into it?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Isn't there a saying about "squaring a circle" or something? Perhaps that's the source of the confusion?
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    Is anyone else hearing all that strange eristic noise? Make it stop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Isn't there a saying about "squaring a circle" or something? Perhaps that's the source of the confusion?
    Yes, and how to do so with only a straight edge and a compass a key geometry question for more than 2000 years, until proved to be impossible in the 19th century.
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    I'm not confused. Pi comes from a system of measurement that is based upon square coordinates. There is nothing special about a circle in circular coordinates, but imagine trying to define a square... it would be impossible to perfectly define a square with circular coordinates in the same manner. The best we've got is like limits and calculus, ever approaching but never reaching.
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    ~ It may be over fluoridated water that brings this to the foreground. Please tell me you understand that 'Pi' is just a term for the number of times the diameter fits around the circumference. I see a straight line and a circle.. "Huston, we have a problem"..

    and what has any of that got to do with the false doctrines of religious teaching. Does it mater. YES it does. As to teach or instruct with false doctrines is a manipulation of truths.. I am not a descendant of Adam and Eve. Nor is Noah's ark a true story. A God can not be proven to have fathered Mary's baby. Shall I challenge the stories of Moses.. shall I go on ? You must know, I want to...
    To teach things to children that you know to be wrong is a crime against humanity and I will not accept that you think some morality and standards are biblical based.. That's rubbish. I am a atheist and have been all of my adult life and I know whats right and wrong.. Could we get back onto subject please.
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  53. #253  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    I'm not confused. Pi comes from a system of measurement that is based upon square coordinates.
    Do you mean a 2-dimensional area which is often described using X/Y coordinates, displayed in the form of one line at right angles to the other line? Or perhaps you mean squared being "the power of 2" which has nothing to do with a 4-sided shape at all.

    I don't think "square coordinates" is really a thing.
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    What does PI have to do with believing in god?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post

    I don't think "square coordinates" is really a thing.
    I'm probably using the wrong words, but it can't be that hard to understand me.

    @babe, maybe I read to deeply into Beer w/Straw's post.
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    You probably mean Euclidean geometry.
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  57. #257  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    I'm not confused. Pi comes from a system of measurement that is based upon square coordinates.
    No it doesn't.

    There is nothing special about a circle in circular coordinates,
    The ratio of circumference to diameter is still pi. (How many radians in a circle?)

    but imagine trying to define a square... it would be impossible to perfectly define a square with circular coordinates
    No it wouldn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    I'm not confused. Pi comes from a system of measurement that is based upon square coordinates. There is nothing special about a circle in circular coordinates, but imagine trying to define a square... it would be impossible to perfectly define a square with circular coordinates in the same manner. The best we've got is like limits and calculus, ever approaching but never reaching.
    More ignorance asserted as fact by this guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    What does PI have to do with believing in god?
    I had PIe for tea last night. Jesus it was tasty!
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    PIe Jesu Domine (thunk) Dona Eis Requiem (thunk)

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    Strange, if you understood what I meant to say, you wouldn't be dismissively disagreeing with me. It's my fault, I don't know how to properly express what I mean in a way that anyone but I can understand.

    What I am trying to say, if I can figure out a way to properly say this... is the value of Pi is an artifact of the way we define a circle/sphere. If we were using a system based on circles and spheres rather than straight lines and sharp edges, we would have trouble with squares rather than circles. That's the best I can do ::shrug:: Maybe someone who knows the proper fancy words can describe what I am trying to say better

    Anyway I guess it's kind of a moot point, just a curiosity really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Why does it matter? I don't know, but you seem to feel a need to start a new thread about it every few days.
    I agree and he is not the only member who appears to be obsessed with this topic.
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  63. #263  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    What I am trying to say, if I can figure out a way to properly say this... is the value of Pi is an artifact of the way we define a circle/sphere. If we were using a system based on circles and spheres rather than straight lines and sharp edges, we would have trouble with squares rather than circles. That's the best I can do ::shrug:: Maybe someone who knows the proper fancy words can describe what I am trying to say better
    If you are incapable of communicating, there seems little point you continuing to post here. When your posts are comprehensible, they appear to be either trivial or wrong (or trivially wrong).

    I have no idea what you are talking about (although, based on Harold's insight, maybe "polar coordinates"?).

    I can't see how changing to polar coordinates (if that is what you mean) would change the ratio of circumference to diameter. Pi is still pi, regardless of the number system or coordinates used.
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    No I didn't mean polar coordinates, but I can see why you might think that (except that it doesn't offer any insight into what I am saying, so I figured you'd dismiss that idea fairly readily). It's not that I am incapable of communicating in general. I am incapable of putting the proper words to this specific thing. I find what you said here to be in poor form and quite unsubstatianted and rude (no wonder the guy I put on ignore liked it). What I am saying though, about Pi should be rather obvious to someone with a working brain, even if the way I have attempted to describe my meaning has failed.

    Trying to represent a circle with straight lines, trying to fill a circle completely with squares, trying to fill a sphere completely with cubes, is bound to be imprecise.
    Similar to trying to represent a square with curved lines, trying to fill a square completely with circles, trying to fill a cube completely with spheres.

    My apologies for thinking this was a simple concept.

    I don't understand what makes you think it's acceptable to act like a jerk simply because you don't understand someone. Ergh! I dare say I should ignore you too, for being a meathead instead of thinking for a moment.
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  65. #265  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    No I didn't mean polar coordinates, but I can see why you might think that (except that it doesn't offer any insight into what I am saying, so I figured you'd dismiss that idea fairly readily). It's not that I am incapable of communicating in general. I am incapable of putting the proper words to this specific thing.
    Maybe that is because it isn't a thing.
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    Read the whole post you daft bastard.
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  67. #267  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes
    I dare say I should ignore you too, for being a meathead instead of thinking for a moment.
    Keep this up soon Ninja Pancakes will have all the sensible posters on ignore and will just converse with the morons and cranks who might take him seriously...
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    What the hell does Pi have to do with this topic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes
    Read the whole post you daft bastard.
    Cool it.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Maybe you can help me Kalster, by asking them to stop trolling me. I have no desire to have any quarrels with anyone. As for Pi, it was brought up in a post in the thread in relation to the topic and I amde a comment that I thought was in relation to the post and thread... and then I got heat from people who didn't understand me and thought it would be better to ridicule me, because they misunderstood what I was saying (my fault there), rather than be civil and intelligent. They're (PhDemon, SpeedFreek, GiantEvil) bringing this from the .999 and 1 thing as well, and basically just lamabsting me with hate for no good reason all over the forum now =(

    I can't even talk in the chat box without them saying off the cuff mean spirited remarks, since I can't place them on ignore there.

    I feel like the girl with the witch nose in the Monty Python skit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    No I didn't mean polar coordinates, but I can see why you might think that (except that it doesn't offer any insight into what I am saying, so I figured you'd dismiss that idea fairly readily). It's not that I am incapable of communicating in general. I am incapable of putting the proper words to this specific thing. I find what you said here to be in poor form and quite unsubstatianted and rude (no wonder the guy I put on ignore liked it). What I am saying though, about Pi should be rather obvious to someone with a working brain, even if the way I have attempted to describe my meaning has failed.

    Trying to represent a circle with straight lines, trying to fill a circle completely with squares, trying to fill a sphere completely with cubes, is bound to be imprecise.
    Similar to trying to represent a square with curved lines, trying to fill a square completely with circles, trying to fill a cube completely with spheres.

    My apologies for thinking this was a simple concept.

    I don't understand what makes you think it's acceptable to act like a jerk simply because you don't understand someone. Ergh! I dare say I should ignore you too, for being a meathead instead of thinking for a moment.
    Please explain how filling a circle with other circles would be any easier, or how you'd define those circles without the help of pi. Can you describe another way to define a circle? It looks like you are simply not getting how pi is derived in the first place.

    For the record, NOBODY seems to be getting what you are saying and we have some very intelligent people here. From what I can see, you are making very little sense and are lambasting the rest of us for not understanding you. People react to how you conduct yourself.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Well, just like with a square, you only need 4 straight lines, or one square, to define/fill a square. You only need appropriately curved lines, or a single circle to define/fill a circle. Granted, squares are very convenient in the ability to also use 4 squares to define a square and so on. I imagine there are many other unspoken qualities that make this from of geometry/math a more convenient basis for how we define everything else. I haven't written out a circular based geometry/math with which to provide perfect insight here. It's just a simple concept, easy to grasp. Pi is infinite because we are using straight lines to measure a curved line. People are not only reacting to how I am conducting myself, you only need to see the history of the posts in the thread to see that. They are being inappropriate and rude for no good reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Well, just like with a square, you only need 4 straight lines, or one square, to define a square. You only need appropriately curved lines, or a single circle to fill a circle. I haven't written out a circular based geometry/math with which to provide perfect insight here. It's just a simple concept, easy to grasp. Pi is infinite because we are using straight lines to measure a curved line. People are not only reacting to how I am conducting myself, you only need to see the history of the posts in the thread to see that. They are being inappropriate and rude for no good reason.
    Like I said, you are not getting what pi is. How would you define the circle you propose to fill the circle with?

    I can tell you what can get people very frustrated; it is when someone makes a wild claim and is unable to provide any good reasoning behind it and then pigheadedly sticks to that fallacious idea no matter what level of refutation is being offered. That is what happened with 0.9... = 1 and that is what is happening now. Just as frustrated as you are getting with us not getting it, just as frustrated are we getting with you stubborn intransigence, only we can back up what we are saying with mainstream mathematics. You are essentially waffling until you can provide some good reasons for your claim.

    Can you not look at it from our perspective? We are essentially fed up with this kind of thing on this forum already and now you come along and do the same kind of thing. I am not trying to attack you here, just trying to explain the origin of the exasperation you are encountering.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  73. #273  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Read the whole post you daft bastard.
    I read all that you had written at the time. However, now you have written more:

    Trying to represent a circle with straight lines, trying to fill a circle completely with squares, trying to fill a sphere completely with cubes, is bound to be imprecise.
    Perhaps you could explain why you think that has anything to do with the value of Pi. It has nothing to do with straight lines or squares. But feel free to use your extensive mathematical knowledge to explain what I am missing.
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  74. #274  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Pi is infinite because we are using straight lines to measure a curved line.
    a) Pi is not infinite.

    b) It has nothing to do with "using straight lines to measure a curved line".

    You clearly have very limited math knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that; it is an opportunity to learn. But you give the impression of thinking your (mistaken) opinions are more valuable that learning.
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    How do you define a square with a square? I do get what Pi is. To say I don't get what Pi is is baffling. How can you possibly assert this. I'm not making some wild claim, if you calm down for a moment and think about what I am saying it's elementary, it's obvious. It's not some wild thing that blows everything out of the water. I haven't disregarded anything. I made a very basic, obvious, simple statement. What the hell is the problem? I am not resorting to insults and trolling other members because they don't understand something. If I insulted anyone it's because they showed their lack of ability to conduct themselves like adults by their posts in the first place.

    It's like this: I say "0.999... is not equal to 1", they say "nope" I say "that's not a form of argument" they say "you're a crank, troll, idiot, twat, cunt, etc." I say "how is this acceptable behavior". If you doubt that, go look at the posts, that's pretty damned near exactly what happened. I provided plenty of sound arguments and reasoning, which they refuted by saying "no." Which again, is not a form of argument. They linked me to websites which had nothing to say on the subject that I wasn't already aware of, which is also not an argument.

    I have not made any wild claims, I am not waffling, and I have perfectly good, sound reasoning. Maybe you haven't read the posts, or maybe you haven't given it any thought, I don't know.

    I am constantly in the act of attempting to understand other people's perspectives, until they are being rude and boorish, and then I simply ignore them. What value is there to be gained from the perspective of a jerk? None. They are simple minded, and would rather lash out than think, there's nothing to be gained from that.

    All I am asking is that they stop being jerks. I am perfectly happy talking about anything and everything, I just expect people to act like adults. Is that really so much to ask?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    Pi is infinite because we are using straight lines to measure a curved line.
    a) Pi is not infinite.

    b) It has nothing to do with "using straight lines to measure a curved line".

    You clearly have very limited math knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that; it is an opportunity to learn. But you give the impression of thinking your (mistaken) opinions are more valuable that learning.
    Those are statements, I'd like to see proof please. If you can prove that Pi is not infinite I'd especially be interested in that. I'd also be interested in how that has anything to do with anything I have said besides perhaps saying that Pi is infinite, because from what I can see, it's nitpicking, and from what I know, not correct, please enlighten me =)
    Please tell me how Pi was nothing to do with measuring a circle with straight lines. Please, enlighten me as to how you would use geometry to define a circle. I suppose I should specify finding the length of the circumference, area of a circle or sphere, because without that you'd surely say "with a compass" or some other thing beside the point.
    I do have limited math knowledge, I stopped being interested in math when calculus and trigonometry mixed, because it is impossible for me to do it without a calculator, and the joy I had with math previous was the ability to do all calculations in my head. Nothing I've said here, or about .99... and 1 has anything to do with any of that though, they are both elementary, simple things.

    And sorry for calling you a daft bastard I thought I had written the whole post as one, oi, sorry sorry
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  77. #277  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    I do get what Pi is.
    Everything you say here appears to contradict this. We can only go by the evidence.

    I am not resorting to insults
    Hmmm, really?
    jerk ... meathead ... daft bastard.
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  78. #278  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    [If you can prove that Pi is not infinite I'd especially be interested in that.
    It is a number between 3 and 4. Perhaps you mean that its decimal expansion has an infinite number of digits? That is true. But utterly irrelevant.

    Please tell me how Pi was nothing to do with measuring a circle with straight lines.
    Well, you are the one making the claim so, strictly speaking, the burden is on you to provide some support. However ...

    Obviously the diameter of a circle is a straight line. Maybe that is all you are referring to? But the circumference is not a straight line. Pi is the ratio of the circumference to diameter. Fair enough, one of those is a straight line. I still fail to see where your rambling about squares and straight lines comes into it.
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  79. #279  
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    *** WHAT SHOULD IT MATTER ' NOT BELIEVING IN GOD." That was a subject some place near here.. Oh yes there it is under this circle.. Idiots. sigh...
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    Strange, you are intentionally misquoting me.
    I am not resorting to insults and trolling other members because they don't understand something.
    You are also clearly stupid, and not worth my time. You cannot assume Pi when trying to show why Pi exists in the form that it does.
    Welcome to ignore.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled thread... Why should it matter to not believe in God?
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    Double Post.
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  82. #282  
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    I wouldn't ignore Strange. He's one of the most valuable contributors on this site. I specifically enter threads in which he last posted knowing that there will be something worth reading. Maybe you should try to talk through the issue the two of you are having rather than ignore him. Just a suggestion.
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  83. #283  
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    He puts on ignore anyone who points out he's talking rubbish. He posts nonsense and will not back down when this is pointed out. He's put me on ignore and I can't say I'm bothered, the odds of him making a sensible (or correct) contribution are slim.
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    He has proven himself to be valueless with his bullshit posts in my regard, I don't have time for someone who is petty, unthinking, and intentionally warping anything I say. It's enough to drive someone mad. I appreciate your input, but I'll have no more of people trolling me.
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  85. #285  
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    That's a shame. Blocking out some of the more educated and experienced members of the science forum would seem to defeat the purpose of being here (learning, I assume).
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    If he is one of the more educated in this forum, this forum is in bad shape. He also tried to say that Pi was not infinite, either fully aware that I meant an infinite amount of digits, or so stupid that he thought I meant equal to infinity. Or just plain trolling, and considering his intentional misquotes and bullshit nitpicking to distract from thread topic, and even the topic of that discussion, I'm going to assume he's just a trolling ass and not a complete idiot.

    He even had the audacity to claim that the entire point of mentioning that Pi is infinite was irrelevant, clearly illustrating either a lack of desire to understand anything being said, or a lack of ability to understand anything being said.

    Utterly worthless drivel. If he has anything intelligent to say, he probably just got it from Wikipedia.

    I'm sorry that I've lost my patience with a few members on this forum, but it's hard for me to be patient with people who are not only thick, but also clearly intentionally inflammatory. It won't be an issue from here out, because they are ignored.

    If they want to have meaningful input, I suggest they read this: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/01/
    Last edited by Ninja Pancakes; December 10th, 2013 at 02:20 PM.
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  87. #287  
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    People putting someone on ignore just shows the child they are. The moment they do it, what little respect they may have had goes right out the window. Infantile!
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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  88. #288  
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    I get that you disagree with the posts he made in this thread, but when you view his contributions in a wider scope, he really does offer a lot of really good material to the site. He's said a heck of a lot more valuable stuff than I have.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  89. #289  
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    Yeah, what we need are more people who post incorrect nonsense confidently asserted as fact like NP
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  90. #290  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    OK. Let me try and be positive about Ninja's idea. (Perhaps someone will quote this so he will see it... Or maybe it isn't worth it)

    You can evaluate Pi in various ways. One of these is to evaluate a function, such as the area of a unit circle. This can be approximated by the sum of a number of rectangles (a Riemann sum). So, in that sense, there is a relationship between "squares" (rectangles) and Pi. But if you take this to the limit and integrate the function then those rectangles disappear. And then Pi is not defined by squares or straight lines.

    Trying to approximate it by circles within circles would be more complicated (and it is not obvious to me that a limit exists in that case). So I don't really see how circles provide a better definition of Pi.

    I assume Ninja has some intuitive idea about this, but I suspect it doesn't work in practice. The whole point about math, science and engineering is to get away from these unreliable intuitions and assumptions, and towards something more rigorous.
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  91. #291  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    OK. Let me try and be positive about Ninja's idea. (Perhaps someone will quote this so he will see it... Or maybe it isn't worth it)

    You can evaluate Pi in various ways. One of these is to evaluate a function, such as the area of a unit circle. This can be approximated by the sum of a number of rectangles (a Riemann sum). So, in that sense, there is a relationship between "squares" (rectangles) and Pi. But if you take this to the limit and integrate the function then those rectangles disappear. And then Pi is not defined by squares or straight lines.

    Trying to approximate it by circles within circles would be more complicated (and it is not obvious to me that a limit exists in that case). So I don't really see how circles provide a better definition of Pi.

    I assume Ninja has some intuitive idea about this, but I suspect it doesn't work in practice. The whole point about math, science and engineering is to get away from these unreliable intuitions and assumptions, and towards something more rigorous.
    Out of respect for you and so that the ninja pancakes child can actually read it.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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  92. #292  
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    I would have granted you the honor of quoting your post, but you missed an Oxford comma so I put you on ignore instead.
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  93. #293  
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    I only use them when necessary for disambiguation.

    From: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3438
    Last edited by Strange; December 10th, 2013 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Link to source
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  94. #294  
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    Can a circle have a line measuring the distance from the exact middle of the circle, to the edge of that circle? Let's call this line a Radius. The actual length of the line is unimportant, all that matters is what the line represents.

    If you doubled this line, would you then have a line stretching from one edge of the circle to the opposite edge of the circle, where this line passes through the exact middle of that circle? Lets call this line a Diameter. Whatever the length of this line, it will always be exactly double the length we've called the Radius.

    Can you have a line around the edge of the circle, the very line that defines the circle as being a circle itself? Lets call this the Circumference.

    There is a definite and well-recognized ratio between the lines we've decided to call "Diameter" and "Circumference". This ratio has nothing to do with circles, squares, triangles or any other shape. It's just a relationship between the line that goes around the edge of a circle (the "circle" part of the circle) and the line that goes across (through the middle) of the circle.

    This ratio is 1 : 3.14159265... Because this number is a fact of nature, we've decided to give this number a nickname, "Pi".
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  95. #295  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    If he is one of the more educated in this forum, this forum is in bad shape. He also tried to say that Pi was not infinite, either fully aware that I meant an infinite amount of digits, or so stupid that he thought I meant equal to infinity. Or just plain trolling, and considering his intentional misquotes and bullshit nitpicking to distract from thread topic, and even the topic of that discussion, I'm going to assume he's just a trolling ass and not a complete idiot.

    He even had the audacity to claim that the entire point of mentioning that Pi is infinite was irrelevant, clearly illustrating either a lack of desire to understand anything being said, or a lack of ability to understand anything being said.

    Utterly worthless drivel. If he has anything intelligent to say, he probably just got it from Wikipedia.

    I'm sorry that I've lost my patience with a few members on this forum, but it's hard for me to be patient with people who are not only thick, but also clearly intentionally inflammatory. It won't be an issue from here out, because they are ignored.

    If they want to have meaningful input, I suggest they read this: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/01/

    Dunnning and Kruger called, can you ring them back. Wow, what a tirade from someone who claims to understand maths and be above the rest of us as he does not have to resort to insults, I'm guessing you're overestimating your competence on both counts by quite a way judging by your input to the forum so far...
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  96. #296  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pancakes View Post
    If he is one of the more educated in this forum, this forum is in bad shape. He also tried to say that Pi was not infinite, either fully aware that I meant an infinite amount of digits, or so stupid that he thought I meant equal to infinity. Or just plain trolling, and considering his intentional misquotes and bullshit nitpicking to distract from thread topic, and even the topic of that discussion, I'm going to assume he's just a trolling ass and not a complete idiot.

    He even had the audacity to claim that the entire point of mentioning that Pi is infinite was irrelevant, clearly illustrating either a lack of desire to understand anything being said, or a lack of ability to understand anything being said.

    Utterly worthless drivel. If he has anything intelligent to say, he probably just got it from Wikipedia.

    I'm sorry that I've lost my patience with a few members on this forum, but it's hard for me to be patient with people who are not only thick, but also clearly intentionally inflammatory. It won't be an issue from here out, because they are ignored.

    If they want to have meaningful input, I suggest they read this: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/01/
    You should probably be careful before you insult the entire forum.

    And it does seem the point of Pi is entire irrelevant unless you want to go down some odd numerology angle, or get into an actual discussion of how many ancient belief systems (and a couple modern ones that keep hanging on) did hold special significance in some numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    People putting someone on ignore just shows the child they are. The moment they do it, what little respect they may have had goes right out the window. Infantile!
    It's more like self restraint. Reading their posts only upsets me, and by removing myself from seeing their inflammatory posts, I can more easily conduct myself in a more proper manner on the forum, and have some actual interesting conversation. Not sure why you feel the need to jump on some sort of bandwagon, but whatever.

    Out of respect for you and so that the ninja pancakes child can actually read it.
    And now you are ignored as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I would have granted you the honor of quoting your post, but you missed an Oxford comma so I put you on ignore instead.
    Hur hur. Aren't you funny. Let's all bash on Ninja Pancakes because everyone is doing it, so it must be the thing to do. Pathetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And it does seem the point of Pi is entire irrelevant unless you want to go down some odd numerology angle, or get into an actual discussion of how many ancient belief systems (and a couple modern ones that keep hanging on) did hold special significance in some numbers.
    I'm not sure why something so simple is lost on literally everyone, but no, it's not about numerology. It's not even that big of a deal, so if everyone would kindly just leave it be, and leave me be, that'd be really nice.

    Not sure why the moderators don't care that this has become a stone throwing party.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Can a circle have a line measuring the distance from the exact middle of the circle, to the edge of that circle? Let's call this line a Radius. The actual length of the line is unimportant, all that matters is what the line represents.

    If you doubled this line, would you then have a line stretching from one edge of the circle to the opposite edge of the circle, where this line passes through the exact middle of that circle? Lets call this line a Diameter. Whatever the length of this line, it will always be exactly double the length we've called the Radius.

    Can you have a line around the edge of the circle, the very line that defines the circle as being a circle itself? Lets call this the Circumference.

    There is a definite and well-recognized ratio between the lines we've decided to call "Diameter" and "Circumference". This ratio has nothing to do with circles, squares, triangles or any other shape. It's just a relationship between the line that goes around the edge of a circle (the "circle" part of the circle) and the line that goes across (through the middle) of the circle.

    This ratio is 1 : 3.14159265... Because this number is a fact of nature, we've decided to give this number a nickname, "Pi".
    You must be a little dense. So let me help you. How did you get the length of the circumference in the first place? Maybe if you weren't so condescending in this ridiculous post where you illustrate how easily you can miss a point, I wouldn't condescend you.
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