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Thread: Religion is not a scapegoat for violence

  1. #201  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Everything that Tranquille said in Post #197.

    Chero....you obviously don't know much about Nazi'ism, or it's effect on INNOCENTS in WWII. Maybe you should talk to my mother. She has enough knowledge LIVING THROUGH IT, to maybe clue you in.
    It's ok Babe.
    Chero believes that the 70 million Nazi's were all Individuals. They could not possibly have followed a common ideal. *
    As he does with the 170 million soviet communist, and the millions of Chinese, the fascist Spanish and Italians, No nobody does bad things for a common ideal it is all for personal "desire", he likes that word.
    He stated that it can't be words that influence. well unless we are all struck dumb, how do we communicate. With our eyes, or nose twitches. Or is it magically manifested in our minds. Oh yes that would be it.


    *(They all individually desired to kill jews.)
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    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Everything that Tranquille said in Post #197.

    Chero....you obviously don't know much about Nazi'ism, or it's effect on INNOCENTS in WWII. Maybe you should talk to my mother. She has enough knowledge LIVING THROUGH IT, to maybe clue you in.
    It's ok Babe.
    Chero believes that the 70 million Nazi's were all Individuals. They could not possibly have followed a common ideal. *
    As he does with the 170 million soviet communist, and the millions of Chinese, the fascist Spanish and Italians, No nobody does bad things for a common ideal it is all for personal "desire", he likes that word.
    He stated that it can't be words that influence. well unless we are all struck dumb, how do we communicate. With our eyes, or nose twitches. Or is it magically manifested in our minds. Oh yes that would be it.


    *(They all individually desired to kill jews.)
    Maybe I wouldn't be so passionate about this if my mother and her family, MY FAMILY, had not lived through all that horror......had people friends, family killed in front of them, hiding people in the woods....the entire horror of them....maybe I could be more passive.



    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.

    Sorry ......and this isn't science, but this type of stupidity and ignorance really really upsets me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe;493164 [/QUOTE
    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.
    Agreed it does me too!
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    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Maybe I wouldn't be so passionate about this if my mother and her family, MY FAMILY, had not lived through all that horror......had people friends, family killed in front of them, hiding people in the woods....the entire horror of them....maybe I could be more passive.



    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.



    Sorry ......and this isn't science, but this type of stupidity and ignorance really really upsets me!


    Maybe it is a dumb thread/question designed to antagonize?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Everything that Tranquille said in Post #197.

    Chero....you obviously don't know much about Nazi'ism, or it's effect on INNOCENTS in WWII. Maybe you should talk to my mother. She has enough knowledge LIVING THROUGH IT, to maybe clue you in.
    It's ok Babe.
    Chero believes that the 70 million Nazi's were all Individuals. They could not possibly have followed a common ideal. *
    As he does with the 170 million soviet communist, and the millions of Chinese, the fascist Spanish and Italians, No nobody does bad things for a common ideal it is all for personal "desire", he likes that word.
    He stated that it can't be words that influence. well unless we are all struck dumb, how do we communicate. With our eyes, or nose twitches. Or is it magically manifested in our minds. Oh yes that would be it.


    *(They all individually desired to kill jews.)
    do not misrepresent my posts.

    I never said that individuals could not follow a common ideal. I never said bad things could not happen because of a common goal or ideal.

    I said I, you, babe, or thousands of Germans who followed orders according to the nazi regime have our own reasons why. In order to follow anyone or thing, we must first make the decision, ourselves, to follow. I must accept and agree with what Hitler said in order to follow him. in order to even do that, I must have some reason to do so.



    the only way for any group to have a common ideal is for all of them to agree to that ideal. similar to the those who resisted nazi rule, and became martyrs for it, were not nazi's. Under the premise provided, you would consider them nazis only because they were German. what foolhardy!

    do you believe we do not make our own decisions?

    He stated that it can't be words that influence.
    I stated that there is a strict difference between influence and cause. these two things are not the same.

    for instance, how can one thing that is the cause of how I act, not be the cause of how you act? we are both humans. it must be the same. the only reason why you would not act as I do (under generalization) would be because you did not want to. your cause is different. the only difference is what factors/facts/thoughts/ideals/etc. we consider to apply to these causes before acting out. in other words, we justify what drives us.

    for instance, the law in Germany to gather and later kill jews. that would only be law, and could only be carried out because of desire. the law itself can not be self fulfilling. it can not bring itself into being simply because it is written. that's wrong. in order for any word to cause someone to act a certain way, it must be self fulfilling. one look at it, one read...and you'll do exactly what it says. except no word works that way. no human thinks that way. we must associate with it and have some desire to carry it out. no matter what that word or sentence says.
    Last edited by chero; November 26th, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Chero....you obviously don't know much about Nazi'ism, or it's effect on INNOCENTS in WWII. Maybe you should talk to my mother. She has enough knowledge LIVING THROUGH IT, to maybe clue you in.
    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.

    Sorry ......and this isn't science, but this type of stupidity and ignorance really really upsets me!
    I am a history buff. ww2 is one of my favorite subjects. I have watched and talked with and studied various accounts of what occurred during ww2. I am in no way an expert, so please. do include some instance on how or why I am ignorant?

    now ask yourself, why are there still nazi's? despite all that was done. we won the war after all. everything they claimed has been countered and argued for generations now. there seems to be no logical reason to slip that sleeve on. but why does it still happen?

    this is the question, unanswered, all along. why do people act or react to an ideal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Maybe I wouldn't be so passionate about this if my mother and her family, MY FAMILY, had not lived through all that horror......had people friends, family killed in front of them, hiding people in the woods....the entire horror of them....maybe I could be more passive.



    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.



    Sorry ......and this isn't science, but this type of stupidity and ignorance really really upsets me!


    Maybe it is a dumb thread/question designed to antagonize?
    I don't know. I just find it utterly ignorant and stupid. If someone opens a thread like that...they need a banning! IMHO!
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    [QUOTE=chero;493344]
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Chero....you obviously don't know much about Nazi'ism, or it's effect on INNOCENTS in WWII. Maybe you should talk to my mother. She has enough knowledge LIVING THROUGH IT, to maybe clue you in.

    This ignorance blows my mind! How someone cannot read HISTORY in itself.

    Sorry ......and this isn't science, but this type of stupidity and ignorance really really upsets me!
    I am a history buff. ww2 is one of my favorite subjects. I have watched and talked with and studied various accounts of what occurred during ww2. I am in no way an expert, so please. do include some instance on how or why I am ignorant?



    now ask yourself, why are there still nazi's? despite all that was done. we won the war after all. everything they claimed has been countered and argued for generations now. there seems to be no logical reason to slip that sleeve on. but why does it still happen?

    Because there are still people who believe this crap and always will, be it Jews, blacks, or whatever. They are looking for a reason for their own problems instead of looking at themselves.
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    This thread started off claiming that religion was not a scapegoat for violence. It has since been shown that if you claim one ideology isn't culpable, then you must also state that any ideology should not be deemed culpable.

    Chero has claimed throughout this thread that all individuals are driven by "Desire".

    OED Desire: a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

    From the OP "We know animals protect their territory. Humans may have no other desire but to do the same." "It is our immediate desire to protect that which is us."

    And from post 33 "the main causes of violence and all other actions possibly described as evil are human desires" This is where it got silly. Because we are all the sum of our experiences, if a child’s/persons experiences are only of Christianity/fascism then a Christian/fascist it will become. Desire is not involved!

    It was said that I was misrepresenting him. However if all individuals are following there only desires, their own wants and needs as he clearly thinks, then they're not following a common ideal. They are following a very personal individual ideal. The world then becomes a population of sociopaths.

    It was asked whether I believe we make our own decisions, well of course we do based on the sum of our knowledge and experiences. However there are those that are brainwashed who actually believe they are making their own decisions, but clearly they are not. Because they are so inculcated or indoctrinated in their beliefs they cannot do anything other than follow those beliefs.

    I act according to my knowledge and experiences, but another person could appear to be the same as me but his experiences are controlled by his indoctrination. And as such he will act according to those beliefs. We may all be human and have similar wants and need but not necessary the same wants and needs.

    It has also been said that why do people act or react to an ideal. Well that could be because they were persuaded/inculcated/indoctrinated/brainwashed too. Not necessarily because they desired too. The two are mutually exclusive.

    This image

    was taken from here The World At War: A New Germany (1933 - 1939)
    Was this child driven by desire, or was he simply persuaded.?

    I think we all know the answer! Just that some are unwilling to accept it due to their indoctrination, no wait that would be their desires!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    Because there are still people who believe this crap and always will, be it Jews, blacks, or whatever. They are looking for a reason for their own problems instead of looking at themselves.
    YES! that is what I have been saying this whole time! the choice is yours. there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do, it is only you. your character and human nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do
    "Yer money or yer life!"
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    [QUOTE=pavlos;493740]
    And from post 33 "the main causes of violence and all other actions possibly described as evil are human desires" This is where it got silly. Because we are all the sum of our experiences, if a child’s/persons experiences are only of Christianity/fascism then a Christian/fascist he/she will become. Desire is not involved!
    First, humans are not described as "it." that is improper English.

    second, my family escaped Germany during ww2, fled to Russia, and then escaped to USA because it was all the same stupidity. I know numerous people born one thing, to become something else. so your child example is not set in stone.

    third, there are many different characteristics and examples of both fascist and Christianity. the brave Germans who tried to assassinate Hitler were fascists. some leading generals still preferred fascism, but thought Hitler was ruining Germany (especially during the war). Similarly, between Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, and even non-denominational - there is so many differences that it is likely for a person to change who they are/what they believe and do so drastically within the grouping of "Christianity" that I find it unfair to give the impression that they would be all the same person/thing.

    Bugging Hitler

    okay, the above is just the transcript, but the program is a documentary about bugging p.o.w. in which gives example of fascist Germans unhappy with Hitler.

    so with points 1 to 3, I find it improbable to say where you are as a kid is where you will be as an adult. especially if we are the sum of our experiences.


    It was said that I was misrepresenting him. However if all individuals are following there only desires, their own wants and needs as he clearly thinks, then they're not following a common ideal. They are following a very personal individual ideal. The world then becomes a population of sociopaths.
    they follow a single ideal for their own personal reasons & causes. that does not create individual ideals among a group. however, it is possible to take that which is common and have a more personal view point to it.

    e.g.
    "eye for an eye"

    view point 1: what someone does to you, you do to them.
    view point 2: what someone does to you, you help them understand what happened from the other two shoes, and understand what is right vs wrong.

    It was asked whether I believe we make our own decisions, well of course we do based on the sum of our knowledge and experiences. However there are those that are brainwashed who actually believe they are making their own decisions, but clearly they are not. Because they are so inculcated or indoctrinated in their beliefs they cannot do anything other than follow those beliefs.

    I act according to my knowledge and experiences, but another person could appear to be the same as me but his experiences are controlled by his indoctrination. And as such he will act according to those beliefs. We may all be human and have similar wants and need but not necessary the same wants and needs.

    It has also been said that why do people act or react to an ideal. Well that could be because they were persuaded/inculcated/indoctrinated/brainwashed too. Not necessarily because they desired too. The two are mutually exclusive.


    was taken from here The World At War: A New Germany (1933 - 1939)
    Was this child driven by desire, or was he simply persuaded.?
    The picture of the kid saluting?
    I do not know the situation of the picture and I am not the kid. there is no logical process to say that kid is indoctrinated or is acting out because of x. we may examine the picture, consider the environment, consider psychology & sociology, and examine our own actions.

    As a kid, all I wanted to do is appease my parents, or do what ever the heck I wanted to do. My nickname was "NO" and not because of my time during the terrible 2's, but because it stuck with me until I was about 6. Hard to say exact year of age - I was in 1 st grade. My parents had teacher parent conferences because I would not listen. All while another kid, friends of the family (same beliefs, similar parenting practices, etc.) was the opposite. My brother was the opposite as well, until his teens. then I calmed down during after 6-ish, and was to my self for the most part, though a "perfect angel."

    There were plenty of things I did, however, to appease friends or family, because I saw everyone else doing it. I wanted to fit in. I wanted them to be proud of me. I wanted to be liked.

    the same instance could apply to the kid saluting. or the kid flipping the bird at a football match. or the kids in this video
    okay, I can't find the video. but little 3 maybe 4 year old kids deal out a skit and curse.

    of coarse they are influenced by their parents. however, the real reasons why a kid may do something is because of what they want. no kid is empty minded. not even babies.

    even if a kid's world is changed 180 compared to yours or mine. that kid is still acting on what he or she wants., thinks, desires, etc.
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    Concise please.

    Are you hiding emotions?
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    even if a kid's world is changed 180 compared to yours or mine. that kid is still acting on what he or she wants., thinks, desires, etc.
    Chero, I am not quite sure I agree with you here, and yes, I did have to think about it quite deeply before I decided to answer. I think first it depend on the age and maturity of that child. I was indoctrinated into religion against my own will as a child and later paid for it in terms of multiple operations because I developed a sort of spiritual jaundice. If you insist I wanted it I would have to say yes, because I had no choice and I wanted to do what my parents told me to do. However, to support you argument I do not care when, but at some point everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do, it is only you. your character and human nature.
    Your choices are partly determined by your character. Which depends partly on your genes, your environment and your upbringing (parents, friends, family, etc). So all of those things have an effect on the choices you make.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    First, humans are not described as "it." that is improper English.
    "It" is preferable to the ludicrous "he/she" circumlocution. Of course, the standard gender-neutral singular pronoun "they" would be better.

    And why would anyone pay any attention to English lessons from someone who apparently doesn't even know that sentences should start with a capital letter, and who can't spell?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    I know numerous people born one thing, to become something else.
    I wonder what made them change?
    It can't be their character: they had their character before they changed.
    It can't be their human nature: they had their human nature before they changed.

    The only other influences I can think of are external.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    First, humans are not described as "it." that is improper English.
    "It" is preferable to the ludicrous "he/she" circumlocution. Of course, the standard gender-neutral singular pronoun "they" would be better.

    And why would anyone pay any attention to English lessons from someone who apparently doesn't even know that sentences should start with a capital letter, and who can't spell?
    And the "it" in this instance is the reply Chero gave in the post 33. It had nothing to do with humans. Reading comprehension bears it's ugly head. Or does he think that the it in this sentence also refers to humans.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    First, humans are not described as "it." that is improper English.
    "It" is preferable to the ludicrous "he/she" circumlocution. Of course, the standard gender-neutral singular pronoun "they" would be better.

    And why would anyone pay any attention to English lessons from someone who apparently doesn't even know that sentences should start with a capital letter, and who can't spell?
    capitalization is proper (English) writing and does not confuse people when they read. "It" does not refer to humans. I only presumed the term's use from the simplicity of the sentence. otherwise at first glance, I did not know what was being referred to. the biggest problem was that the term could refer to something else earlier in the paragraph, not just earlier in the sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by chero
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos
    Because we are all the sum of our experiences, if a child’s/persons experiences are only of Christianity/fascism then a Christian/fascist he/she (previously "it")will become. Desire is not involved!
    First, humans are not described as "it." that is improper English.
    My single sentence meant no disrespect, pavlos.

    If anyone sees a mistake or is confused by what I type, please do point it out.

    things like capitalization and spelling will continue to suffer. However, feel free to message me about spelling, or post on my profile. no point in making a post on a thread about one word, only.

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos
    And the "it" in this instance is the reply Chero gave in the post 33. It had nothing to do with humans.
    apparently I am wrong on what the word was referring to. Now I am even more confused.
    Last edited by chero; November 27th, 2013 at 09:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    I know numerous people born one thing, to become something else.
    I wonder what made them change?
    It can't be their character: they had their character before they changed.
    It can't be their human nature: they had their human nature before they changed.

    The only other influences I can think of are external.
    They made themselves change.

    Character can change if a person wants it to. changing character is difficult however, because much of it is habit and resides in the subconscious.

    human nature is the same for everyone. it is our ancestral and survival instincts. Fight or flight is part of this, and may cause us to do one thing or another.

    "Yer money or yer life!"
    Simply because someone threatens you, does not mean you must comply. However, the desire to comply (hand over money in this case) would be human nature; the desire to live/self preservation. this desire has stayed with us since humans first walked the earth, as it is part of all living things. it (the desire) is constant (fight or flight).

    the influences that cause us to think upon our desire to live changes through out our life (and over human history). these things are not constant - and therefore can not be the cause of your actions.

    "Yer money or yer life!"
    lets say this guy has a knife.
    there are several possible outcomes. I'll mention 3.
    a. do nothing
    b. give money
    c. fight

    a. do nothing: I get hit over the head for taking too long. money and shoes are taken.
    cause? fear/my inability to face fear and react.

    b. give money: hey, fear didn't keep me from doing anything. good job. life is not worth a few dollars. remember, majority of stick ups do not turn violent if you just give the thieves what they want.
    cause? courage and desire to live.

    c. fight: hey, no body pulls a knife on me! how could I take that s*** from a no good motha f****?!?! I know self defense. oops not enough. stabbed, now rushing to the hospital.
    cause? courage, desire to live, and pride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do, it is only you. your character and human nature.
    Your choices are partly determined by your character. Which depends partly on your genes, your environment and your upbringing (parents, friends, family, etc). So all of those things have an effect on the choices you make.
    I agree. our character and many of the things you list has an effect on what we do. Sometimes influencing our decisions. However, effects are not causes.

    for example. one experience we all may have, is heart break. some do not, but some do.
    if I was in a long term, distant relationship (in which my girlfriend was 3 hours away) but "loved" that girlfriend - then I would struggle to stay with her/be with her. This could include working towards moving closer to her. Distant relationships are difficult, however. all things influence this relationship differently and how each person interacts with that relationship. money and communication being most prominent

    despite efforts, my girlfriend and I break up. and its ugly! worst than what any guy wants to admit (some dudes may understand that). the next 2 years go by unbearable and alone. total sob story. now, the next time I meet a girl - really like, totally into (sorry, but talking this way adds effect) - except, this girl lives 1.5 hours away. to me this is a red flag. not worth my time. I tell myself, "no way. so much wasted effort goes into it." which may be true. so I don't even try to court this delightful individual.

    what is the cause of my actions? is it my experience? or does my experience influence my decisions while the cause is actually something different? this is where psychology comes in. I don't want to be hurt like I was before. so some things I associate with being hurt is feared. it happens to us all the time and does so more than once.

    on a side note, this is why some people can't fly on planes. the outcome and experience is feared so much, it is unbearable. even though flight is supposedly the safest way to travel (statistically), our perception of what can happen is too much. fear is unbearable.

    so the cause of the girlfriend debacle? insecurity and fear is what pops out to me and those things are all on me. not my ex and not the experience. how could it be those things?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Concise please.

    Are you hiding emotions?
    I do not understand. Could you elaborate? you are referring to me right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Chero, I am not quite sure I agree with you here, and yes, I did have to think about it quite deeply before I decided to answer. I think first it depend on the age and maturity of that child. I was indoctrinated into religion against my own will as a child and later paid for it in terms of multiple operations because I developed a sort of spiritual jaundice. If you insist I wanted it I would have to say yes, because I had no choice and I wanted to do what my parents told me to do. However, to support you argument I do not care when, but at some point everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.
    Stargate. I do not know what jaundice is. I am not comprehending what you wrote. after looking different definitions, it looks like what you describe can be very personal. I do not wish to step over my bounds in asking for more info.

    From what I do understand, I would agree that maturity and age impacts how we think.

    for instance: ever ask a kid, "why did you do that?" all for them to say, "I don't know."
    from my child development class (and some other stuff too, but sadly I do not have all the info), some kids do not know. When growing up, we have impulses in which we just act. its completely subconscious, and the kids don't know why they just kicked a rock or what ever.

    interesting:
    Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality - CBS News
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    Because there are still people who believe this crap and always will, be it Jews, blacks, or whatever. They are looking for a reason for their own problems instead of looking at themselves.
    YES! that is what I have been saying this whole time! the choice is yours. there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do, it is only you. your character and human nature.
    Doesn't apply to war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    I know numerous people born one thing, to become something else.
    I wonder what made them change?
    It can't be their character: they had their character before they changed.
    It can't be their human nature: they had their human nature before they changed.

    The only other influences I can think of are external.
    They made themselves change.
    But why would they want to change?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Concise please.

    Are you hiding emotions?
    I do not understand. Could you elaborate? you are referring to me right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Chero, I am not quite sure I agree with you here, and yes, I did have to think about it quite deeply before I decided to answer. I think first it depend on the age and maturity of that child. I was indoctrinated into religion against my own will as a child and later paid for it in terms of multiple operations because I developed a sort of spiritual jaundice. If you insist I wanted it I would have to say yes, because I had no choice and I wanted to do what my parents told me to do. However, to support you argument I do not care when, but at some point everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.
    Stargate. I do not know what jaundice is. I am not comprehending what you wrote. after looking different definitions, it looks like what you describe can be very personal. I do not wish to step over my bounds in asking for more info.

    From what I do understand, I would agree that maturity and age impacts how we think.

    for instance: ever ask a kid, "why did you do that?" all for them to say, "I don't know."
    from my child development class (and some other stuff too, but sadly I do not have all the info), some kids do not know. When growing up, we have impulses in which we just act. its completely subconscious, and the kids don't know why they just kicked a rock or what ever.

    interesting:
    Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality - CBS News
    Jaundice is a disease of the liver, where the bile gets into your blood and your skin begin to turn yellow. babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.

    It is very important what a child copy on the subliminal unconscious level. Children store more information on the unconscious level that will have an impact later in life on the actions one takes as a grownup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    Nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    YES! that is what I have been saying this whole time! the choice is yours. there is no possible way for any outside instrument to be the cause of something you do, it is only you. your character and human nature.
    Doesn't apply to war.
    Please explain.

    It always applies to war. again, ww2 is perfect example. how do you think Hitler expanded into Poland? Controlling Austria was an act of war and against the previous treaty formed and signed at the end of the first world war. the U.K. & France were unwilling to go into war.


    World War II Timeline - Remembering Pearl Harbor @ nationalgeographic.com
    World War II Starts

    consider the Iraq war. The main players and some of the senate wanted war. same with Afghanistan. That route was not necessary. there were plenty of other actions to take. War was wanted.

    Even in situations of invasion, you will see outcomes similar to the mugging scenario previously suggested. you might even get sympathizers who will join the invaders.



    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    But why would they want to change?
    That is up to the person. I can not think of every example or situation in which may occur to explain why someone may change. I must only consider my own experience. One reason I wanted to change was to fit in. it was a load of crud, so I later desired not to fit in and rejected the "average norm."

    we may also look at drug use. why does anyone take drugs? tobacco, crack, pcp, etc. you name it - people are doing it to get high. why? they want to, or they want to fit in. most drug use occurs socially, we are introduced to it. But as parents may say, if your friends jump off the bridge would we jump with them? Must we? There is some thing to want in everything we do. sometimes there are more than one that contradict one another (e.g. fear & courage).

    Even when addicted, the only way for anyone to change is to want it. However, addiction is a disease.

    The addicted brain - Harvard Health Publications
    Brain and Addiction | NIDA for Teens

    After much stipulation, I have not said this before, some things may occur against our will that effect us and what we do. when our bodies are forced to do something, this is not our action. This may be an exception, but it would still not be our own actions.
    In terms of physical and mental change, this affects our ability to apply what we want or interfere with normal/balanced activities.

    More pondering may be required to smooth the above out.

    Quote Originally Posted by stargate
    It is very important what a child copy on the subliminal unconscious level. Children store more information on the unconscious level that will have an impact later in life on the actions one takes as a grownup.
    The rest seemed to be utter nonsense. our mind effects our body. however, no one is able to remember/understand their conscious during infancy. also, physical situation you described seems to be caused by disease and physical illness. not mental illness.
    also, you must mean subconscious, unconscious means your brain is not capable of obtaining information.
    Last edited by chero; November 28th, 2013 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    Nonsense.
    Do you know anything about what I am talking about?
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  31. #231  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?
    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
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  33. #233  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Do you know anything about what I am talking about?
    I know you're talking unsupported unscientific drivel.
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  34. #234  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    So your doctor told you jaundice is caused by negative vibrations? You might want to visit a medical doctor next time. Not one with no echo... (see what I did there?)
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  35. #235  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    A genuine doctor (i.e. a certified medical practitioner) didn't tell you that.
    Or, if he was at one stage such, then he'd strayed from science and resorted to total woo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    (see what I did there?)
    Propagated an urban myth? :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?
    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    I want to know what "negative vibrations" are and how they are related to jaundice. I don't need to know what Tymothee Waterfall Jr. thinks after he examined your aura.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
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  39. #239  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    Did your doctors at any time confirm that your perforated gall bladder was caused by "negative vibrations"?

    (If they said it while backing out of the room nervously and saying, "nurse ...?" then it doesn't count.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    He stated citation needed, not please give your opinion. So again CITATION NEEDED!

    These are the cause of Jaundice http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Jaundice/Pages/Causes.aspx nowhere does it say, "negative vibrations."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm
    There is one extra cause of Jaundice according to Chero and that would be "dESIRE".
    Last edited by pavlos; November 28th, 2013 at 11:26 AM. Reason: addendum
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  41. #241  
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    Judging by peoples quotes the sooner this clown (Stargate) is suspended the better, it's embarrassing for a science site to have this level of stupid around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?


    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    I want to know what "negative vibrations" are and how they are related to jaundice. I don't need to know what Tymothee Waterfall Jr. thinks after he examined your aura.
    Although I know you do not understand very much, let me try to explain.

    Because I swallowed the religions teachings of my parents and church and did not have an outlet, I kept in the resentment and it tightened up my stomach muscles. This happened over a long time period. I built up anxiety because I did not have an outlet, and it led to nervous problems, the nervous condition led to stomach problems that led to gall problems that led to liver problems, you got it? I hope I have opened a channel to your brain to understand that everything is connected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    He stated citation needed, not please give your opinion. So again CITATION NEEDED!
    I have no citation that was told to me by the doctors. I though we were trained to believe what the doctors tell us.
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  44. #244  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?


    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    I want to know what "negative vibrations" are and how they are related to jaundice. I don't need to know what Tymothee Waterfall Jr. thinks after he examined your aura.
    Although I know you do not understand very much, let me try to explain.

    Because I swallowed the religions teachings of my parents and church and did not have an outlet, I kept in the resentment and it tightened up my stomach muscles. This happened over a long time period. I built up anxiety because I did not have an outlet, and it led to nervous problems, the nervous condition led to stomach problems that led to gall problems that led to liver problems, you got it? I hope I have opened a channel to your brain to understand that everything is connected.
    I get that environmental stressors can lead to physiological manifestations of stress (slower healing rates, etc), but your chain of causality seems to be made up. How does a "stomach problem" lead to a "gall bladder problem"? Also, is there any chance you could be less vague. I know I'm a simpering buffoon who only briefly gets to bask in your magnificent radiance, but maybe you could give me a couple actual medical terms. I understand one or two.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  45. #245  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I have no citation that was told to me by the doctors. I though we were trained to believe what the doctors tell us.
    If my doctor tells me my problems are caused by "negative vibrations" due to religion, I'm not only leaving and never coming back, but I'm probably going to inform the local authorities as to a possible asylum escapee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?


    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    I want to know what "negative vibrations" are and how they are related to jaundice. I don't need to know what Tymothee Waterfall Jr. thinks after he examined your aura.
    Although I know you do not understand very much, let me try to explain.

    Because I swallowed the religions teachings of my parents and church and did not have an outlet, I kept in the resentment and it tightened up my stomach muscles. This happened over a long time period. I built up anxiety because I did not have an outlet, and it led to nervous problems, the nervous condition led to stomach problems that led to gall problems that led to liver problems, you got it? I hope I have opened a channel to your brain to understand that everything is connected.
    I get that environmental stressors can lead to physiological manifestations of stress (slower healing rates, etc), but your chain of causality seems to be made up. How does a "stomach problem" lead to a "gall bladder problem"? Also, is there any chance you could be less vague. I know I'm a simpering buffoon who only briefly gets to bask in your magnificent radiance, but maybe you could give me a couple actual medical terms. I understand one or two.
    I know I'm a simpering buffoon who only briefly gets to bask in your magnificent radiance,
    How will you ever understand this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    What?

    I mean....​what?


    Do you know what you ask? Or do you want to reject the doctors assessment of my illness? Sorry maybe you are a doctor.
    I want to know what "negative vibrations" are and how they are related to jaundice. I don't need to know what Tymothee Waterfall Jr. thinks after he examined your aura.
    Although I know you do not understand very much, let me try to explain.

    Because I swallowed the religions teachings of my parents and church and did not have an outlet, I kept in the resentment and it tightened up my stomach muscles. This happened over a long time period. I built up anxiety because I did not have an outlet, and it led to nervous problems, the nervous condition led to stomach problems that led to gall problems that led to liver problems, you got it? I hope I have opened a channel to your brain to understand that everything is connected.
    I get that environmental stressors can lead to physiological manifestations of stress (slower healing rates, etc), but your chain of causality seems to be made up. How does a "stomach problem" lead to a "gall bladder problem"? Also, is there any chance you could be less vague. I know I'm a simpering buffoon who only briefly gets to bask in your magnificent radiance, but maybe you could give me a couple actual medical terms. I understand one or two.
    How will you ever understand this?
    Well, first it will have to be based in reality.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    He stated citation needed, not please give your opinion. So again CITATION NEEDED!

    These are the cause of Jaundice Jaundice - Causes - NHS Choices nowhere does it say, "negative vibrations."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm
    There is one extra cause of Jaundice according to Chero and that would be "dESIRE".
    The jaundice was triggered in the final analysis because I kept swallowing the negative vibrations and had no outlet. What is wrong with you guys. What do you want me to tell you? I tell you what the doctors told me, and you tell me he did not, this is really getting crazy.
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  49. #249  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.
    Citation needed.

    if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    Are you saying that "negative vibrations" were the actual words the doctor used?
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  50. #250  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The jaundice was triggered in the final analysis because I kept swallowing the negative vibrations and had no outlet. What is wrong with you guys. What do you want me to tell you? I tell you what the doctors told me, and you tell me he did not, this is really getting crazy.
    What's wrong with us? Maybe we're swallowing negative vibrations.

    Either you're making this up or your doctor got his degree from a website. What you're saying is not actually a thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.
    Citation needed.

    if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    Are you saying that "negative vibrations" were the actual words the doctor used?
    You sound like an educated fool. The doctor told me that negative vibrations can cause any type of illness. You said you have 20, 000. books my goodness, and you don't have one that can help you with this? Maybe you should throw them away and get some new ones.
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  52. #252  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The doctor told me that negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.
    Were those the ACTUAL words he used?

    You said you have 20, 000. books my goodness, and you don't have one that can help you with this? Maybe you should throw them away and get some new ones.
    No I don't have one that can help, since my text books are factual.
    One more time: citation needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Judging by peoples quotes the sooner this clown (Stargate) is suspended the better, it's embarrassing for a science site to have this level of stupid around.
    Its embarrassing to have such a bully on the science site.
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  54. #254  
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    It's even more embarrassing to have someone so unscientific on a science site.
    Any "bullying" you get is thoroughly deserved.
    Can you support your claims?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    It's even more embarrassing to have someone so unscientific on a science site.
    Any "bullying" you get is thoroughly deserved.
    Can you support your claims?
    I would hate to become like you a scientific freak, that is why I am not scientific and will remain what I am comfortable out of reach from your type. I do not have 20,000 books telling me nothing that a few cold not do. So stick your head in your books and hope some wisdom will come out at least one of them.
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  56. #256  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I would hate to become like you a scientific freak
    Ah, an ad hom.
    And a ridiculous assumption.

    that is why I am not scientific
    Then why bother posting on a science site?

    I do not have 20,000 books telling me nothing that a few cold not do.
    And another stupid assumption.

    I'll ask again since you apparently missed the question: CAN YOU SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS?
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    Please.

    uninterested in medicine for the time being. if this has anything to do with how people choose their own fate or do not, then bring the conversation around to some point related to the o.p.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am not scientific
    Then get off this forum.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Why do these anti-science wing nuts come to a forum like this? I mean, seriously, do they think they are going to win converts from rationality to woo-filled idiocy? Are their lives so sad they want to troll a science forum with nonsense? Are they really so thick as to think the nonsensical wibble they come out with will make a contribution to a science based discussion? What is wrong with these people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Please.

    uninterested in medicine for the time being. if this has anything to do with how people choose their own fate or do not, then bring the conversation around to some point related to the o.p.
    I did not post my reply as a medical case, I was talking about what can happen in ones youth. However the pack is on the attack, and the thread is been thrashed into threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    if this has anything to do with how people choose their own fate or do not, then bring the conversation around to some point related to the o.p.
    I assume Stargate chose to be ridiculed by posting New Age crap.
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  62. #262  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    if this has anything to do with how people choose their own fate or do not, then bring the conversation around to some point related to the o.p.
    I assume Stargate chose to be ridiculed by posting New Age crap.
    No he desired it.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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  63. #263  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Concise please.

    Are you hiding emotions?
    I do not understand. Could you elaborate? you are referring to me right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    Chero, I am not quite sure I agree with you here, and yes, I did have to think about it quite deeply before I decided to answer. I think first it depend on the age and maturity of that child. I was indoctrinated into religion against my own will as a child and later paid for it in terms of multiple operations because I developed a sort of spiritual jaundice. If you insist I wanted it I would have to say yes, because I had no choice and I wanted to do what my parents told me to do. However, to support you argument I do not care when, but at some point everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.
    Stargate. I do not know what jaundice is. I am not comprehending what you wrote. after looking different definitions, it looks like what you describe can be very personal. I do not wish to step over my bounds in asking for more info.

    From what I do understand, I would agree that maturity and age impacts how we think.

    for instance: ever ask a kid, "why did you do that?" all for them to say, "I don't know."
    from my child development class (and some other stuff too, but sadly I do not have all the info), some kids do not know. When growing up, we have impulses in which we just act. its completely subconscious, and the kids don't know why they just kicked a rock or what ever.

    interesting:
    Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality - CBS News
    Jaundice is a disease of the liver, where the bile gets into your blood and your skin begin to turn yellow. babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.

    It is very important what a child copy on the subliminal unconscious level. Children store more information on the unconscious level that will have an impact later in life on the actions one takes as a grownup.
    Babies are BORN with Jaundice.

    What Is Jaundice?


    Jaundice is yellowing of the skin and eyes. This condition forms when there is too much bilirubin in your system. Bilirubin is a yellow pigment that is formed by the breakdown of dead red blood cells in the liver. Normally, the liver gets rid of bilirubin along with old red blood cells.

    Jaundice can indicate a serious problem with the function of your liver, gallbladder, or pancreas.
    Yellow Skin (Jaundice): Symptoms, Causes & Diagnosis
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  64. #264  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    He stated citation needed, not please give your opinion. So again CITATION NEEDED!
    I have no citation that was told to me by the doctors. I though we were trained to believe what the doctors tell us.
    YOU NEVER BELIEVE WHAT THE DOCTOR tells you. You seek at least another opinion, and you ask questions. That is what I term "common sense".

    And this is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!!! It is about learning to QUESTION and not just accept!
    Last edited by babe; November 29th, 2013 at 05:29 AM. Reason: clarification
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    babies can get this from foods they are forced to eat when they do not like it.
    Citation needed.

    My jaundice developed because I was trying to follow my parents in their religious belief, I could not digest the information and had no outlet. The negative vibrations created a problem in my nervous system and gave me jaundice.
    I suppose it is possible that stress could have reduced your immune response and allowed an opportunistic infection to cause liver problems. Although, would that have required surgery?

    Presumably your doctor told you what the cause was. I doubt it was "negative vibrations" or inability to "digest information"..
    I know the doctors were correct because negative vibrations can cause any type of illness.

    The surgery was started by a perforated gall bladder. It eventually led to multiply operations, because they could not find the cause at first. You seem to think you know more that the doctors that treated me, if you think it was not negative vibrations you must know something they did not.
    He stated citation needed, not please give your opinion. So again CITATION NEEDED!
    I have no citation that was told to me by the doctors. I though we were trained to believe what the doctors tell us.
    YOU NEVER BELIEVE WHAT THE DOCTOR tells you. You seek at least another opinion, and you ask questions. That is what I term "common sense".

    And this is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!!! It is about learning to QUESTION and not just accept!
    That is nonsense, you are not making sense, I had more than two doctors saying the same thing. You are following who knows what and not reading.
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    Stargate said:


    [QUOTEYOU NEVER BELIEVE WHAT THE DOCTOR tells you. You seek at least another opinion, and you ask questions. That is what I term "common sense".

    And this is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!!! It is about learning to QUESTION and not just accept!][/QUOTE] Then you find a third who doesn't know the first two....You always question a doctor....it is your RIGHT.....but come armed with the questions to ASK them!!

    You're doctors should be able to answer your questions, and make the information very clear.
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  67. #267  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post

    That is nonsense, you are not making sense, I had more than two doctors saying the same thing. You are following who knows what and not reading.
    If every other doctor, nurse, medical practitioner, in the world is saying your doctors are wrong, then surely you must have the good sense to see that they are wrong. However I would like to hear them actually say that it was negative vibrations. Hence why we have asked you numerous times to post up a citation, to verify your claim, if you can't it would be wise to cease pushing your belief.

    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."-- Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)
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    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Stargate said:


    [QUOTEYOU NEVER BELIEVE WHAT THE DOCTOR tells you. You seek at least another opinion, and you ask questions. That is what I term "common sense".

    And this is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!!! It is about learning to QUESTION and not just accept!]
    Then you find a third who doesn't know the first two....You always question a doctor....it is your RIGHT.....but come armed with the questions to ASK them!!

    You're doctors should be able to answer your questions, and make the information very clear.[/QUOTE]

    I do not think you are understanding. I have been in many university's because the doctors could not detect what was making me ill. There was not just one doctor but many, many. And let me inform you, I know quite a bit about my body, I get on very well with doctors explaining to them what I know about myself.
    I appreciate your reminder about arming yourself with questions for the doctors, but I can assure you after this type of illness I went through, I ask more questions than the doctors like me to ask.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post

    That is nonsense, you are not making sense, I had more than two doctors saying the same thing. You are following who knows what and not reading.
    If every other doctor, nurse, medical practitioner, in the world is saying your doctors are wrong, then surely you must have the good sense to see that they are wrong. However I would like to hear them actually say that it was negative vibrations. Hence why we have asked you numerous times to post up a citation, to verify your claim, if you can't it would be wise to cease pushing your belief.

    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."-- Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)
    Then you had better close yours, you are quite ignorant of what you are saying. You have no clue what the doctors told me and you have no clue what I was suffering from. What claim are you talking about, that I was ill? what citation should I give you to confirm that I had jaundice? Don't try to appear intelligent when you are clueless of what is been said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    if this has anything to do with how people choose their own fate or do not, then bring the conversation around to some point related to the o.p.
    I assume Stargate chose to be ridiculed by posting New Age crap.
    har har. Apparently Stargate was unaware of the reactions.

    everyone here chose their own comments. for a scientific community, there seems to be a lot of name calling and anger. these responses give perfect example to what I speak of. pavlos, most of all. just couldn't resist to poke fun of someone with different opinion (under one perspective). As one may presume; you tried as well?
    provided that Stargate isn't provoking, and your character is unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    I did not post my reply as a medical case, I was talking about what can happen in ones youth.
    For what ever did happen in your youth or any possible youth...I think what was tried to be explained was done so unsuccessfully. From my stand point, I did not understand your point.

    the sort of citation others are requesting is something from the internet that connects what you speak of to what ever "negative vibrations" you speak of (most likely stress). Still, what may happen to ones youth can effect decisions in the future. it has for everyone. As an example given suggests when someone experiences are harsh break up in their younger days, it plays a role in their later relationships.

    If you experienced large amounts of stress as a youth, you would want to limit that as you age.

    as said above, these posts have been example of how much of what we do is our own choice. stress is no different. Many stressors that we have occur because we allow them to get to us. Many stressors will continue to be present, but that does not mean one must react to it. as for the relationship that goes bad, one must learn to let go - possible only by one self wanting to let go. we, ourselves, are the ones who react.

    Until you accept responsibility for the role you play in creating or maintaining it, your stress level will remain outside your control.
    http://www.helpguide.org/mental/stre...ief_coping.htm


    so what shall you do?



    http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Gettin...96_Article.jsp
    Last edited by chero; November 29th, 2013 at 11:28 AM.
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    Stargate "negative vibration."

    ROFL.

    Now that's a steaming pile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Stargate "negative vibration."

    ROFL.

    Now that's a steaming pile.
    You do not know what negative vibrations are? What is your question? Don't Google it, go and ask a doctor if someone can become ill from negative vibrations. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Stargate "negative vibration."

    ROFL.

    Now that's a steaming pile.
    You do not know what negative vibrations are? What is your question? Don't Google it, go and ask a doctor if someone can become ill from negative vibrations. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
    I don't suppose you could just tell us what "negative vibrations" are (aside from the obvious; a lack of vibrations)? I'm afraid that if I ask my doctor, I'll end up in a sleeveless white jacket.
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  74. #274  
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    I have a new business opportunity, I'm sending the letters out tomorrow:

    Dear gullible fool health conscious individual,

    I have for sale a number of magic shiny things (your critical thinking friends may say they are nothing more than Beach Boys CDs, IGNORE THEM) which will cure all illnesses caused by bad or negative vibrations*. All I ask is a donation of $1000 towards shipping costs and the magic shiny thing can be yours! Simply insert it into the cup holder of your computer and stick the small bud shaped things in your ear and you'll never be ill again!

    Yours sincerely,

    etc.


    * None whatsoever, my lawyer made me put this in but you can ignore this too (please)
    .

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by PhDemon; November 29th, 2013 at 04:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Stargate "negative vibration."

    ROFL.

    Now that's a steaming pile.
    You do not know what negative vibrations are? What is your question? Don't Google it, go and ask a doctor if someone can become ill from negative vibrations. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
    I don't suppose you could just tell us what "negative vibrations" are (aside from the obvious; a lack of vibrations)? I'm afraid that if I ask my doctor, I'll end up in a sleeveless white jacket.
    Let me help you out, the opposite of positive vibrations is negative vibrations. Do you know if anyone continues to listen to the negative vibrations of you bullies, they can become ill? Did you know that everything is vibrations science genies?
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  76. #276  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Let me help you out, the opposite of positive vibrations is negative vibrations.
    Still meaningless drivel.
    Please provide a reference for these "vibrations".

    Did you know that everything is vibrations science genies?
    Citation required.
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  77. #277  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Stargate "negative vibration."

    ROFL.

    Now that's a steaming pile.
    You do not know what negative vibrations are? What is your question? Don't Google it, go and ask a doctor if someone can become ill from negative vibrations. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
    I don't suppose you could just tell us what "negative vibrations" are (aside from the obvious; a lack of vibrations)? I'm afraid that if I ask my doctor, I'll end up in a sleeveless white jacket.
    Let me help you out, the opposite of positive vibrations is negative vibrations. Do you know if anyone continues to listen to the negative vibrations of you bullies, they can become ill? Did you know that everything is vibrations science genies?
    I do understand molecular vibration. It's the "negative" part that really gets me. I'm not even to the part about this mysterious phenomenon causing liver distress.

    You're very quick to play the victim card, but that's the typical fallback for someone who is talking out of their backside. Instead of sobbing about it, why not just make an intelligent attempt to explain what you're talking about? Assuming, of course, that there is an intelligent way to explain "negative vibration"...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Because you are so polite, it will be my pleasure to explain, but you know me, no guarantees.

    I have to make sure we are on the same page, we do agree on the level that all matter in the universe is vibrating.

    If we can go from there, let me tell you what I know, aside from the constant uneducated babel that some members take pride in.
    I was very serious from a child, everything I partook of, I wanted to give my all, I guess that a part of growing up. The center of my being resided in my mother and father, however, slightly leaning to my mother. In my culture everything, or most things revolves around the mother. I was brought up in a home where religion was the only thing to save us. For this reason people foolishly gravitated to this ignorance of god, or at least what they perceived to be god.

    I, for some reason unknown to me, tried to swallow some of the crap that was being sold to me and found myself in a position where I was not allowed to question my so called, religious teachings, but also could not turn to my parents whom I loved very dearly. These restrictions were embedded in the religion itself. From my childhood days I began to dump my frustration in my stomach, it followed me up until I because very ill unto death.

    Just to shorten the story, I became ill slowly; I went to endless doctors each not knew what was wrong with me, and each giving me more test but not coming up with anything conclusive. It so turned out, that because I kept my stomach so tight from the fact that I kept my frustrations inside, the stomach muscles over tightened. The rate of vibration that penetrated the gall balder resulting from my holding in my problems caused the gall bladder to back up, thus causing problems in the liver. The doctors at first had no clue as to what was going on because my results were telling them I was alright, except for one or two liver values that seemed out of proportions.

    After removing my gall bladder, they discovered holes in my gall bladder that the doctors could at the time understand, this is why they came on the idea to ask me about my upbringing.
    The doctors said if I had a place to dump this load of negative vibration off, it would not have happened. So yes, negative emotions and negative thoughts, can make you ill, just as much as positive ones, it just depends on how much vibrations. My experiences are real, I have experienced what I know and call it knowledge, what I don't know is what I have heard, and not experienced, and therefore call it information.
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  79. #279  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I have to make sure we are on the same page, we do agree on the level that all matter in the universe is vibrating.
    Do we agree?
    CITATION NEEDED!

    The rate of vibration that penetrated the gall balder resulting from my holding in my problems caused the gall bladder to back up
    Utter crap.

    The doctors said if I had a place to dump this load of negative vibration off
    Once again: did the doctor actually use the words "negative vibrations"?

    So yes, negative emotions and negative thoughts, can make you ill, just as much as positive ones, it just depends on how much vibrations.
    Thoughts and emotions ARE NOT vibrations.

    Still no support for your ridiculous claims.
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  80. #280  
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    Yes, you can experience physical effects of psychological stress. Maybe your doctor had concerns about your stress level, but "negative vibrations" is not a diagnosis. It may have been a poor choice of words in passing conversation, but molecular vibrations had nothing to do with your gall bladder issues. I can pretty much promise you that.

    I don't know if you had gallstones (and I wonder if you even know) or if your gall bladder simply wasn't functioning properly, but removal is not all that uncommon. You make it sound as though you have some impossibly rare disorder. I know several people who have had their gall bladders removed.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  81. #281  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The doctors said if I had a place to dump this load of negative vibration off, it would not have happened. So yes, negative emotions and negative thoughts, can make you ill, just as much as positive ones, it just depends on how much vibrations. My experiences are real, I have experienced what I know and call it knowledge, what I don't know is what I have heard, and not experienced, and therefore call it information.
    Two issues.

    It seems more likely your doctor, might have used the term "negative vibs" which as odd as it sounds, has absolutely nothing to do with vibrations...it's simply a cliche for things that cause psychological stress. Such as the expression: "I've got negative vibs about this...." when you might feel uncomfortable about something but can't articulate the reasons for those feelings.

    --
    The second issue is your continuing failure to support your claims and continued posting of pseudo-scientific gibberish all over these boards--the topics ranging from mind control alien spacecraft, to fake diseases, to ancient knowledge, to this one. You further show open contempt for the methods of science. Giving you a week off to think about how and if you'd like to continue here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Yes, you can experience physical effects of psychological stress. Maybe your doctor had concerns about your stress level, but "negative vibrations" is not a diagnosis. It may have been a poor choice of words in passing conversation, but molecular vibrations had nothing to do with your gall bladder issues. I can pretty much promise you that.

    I don't know if you had gallstones (and I wonder if you even know) or if your gall bladder simply wasn't functioning properly, but removal is not all that uncommon. You make it sound as though you have some impossibly rare disorder. I know several people who have had their gall bladders removed.
    I suppose this is irrelevant now, but I do not think you understand what I was trying to tell you about my illness. I was in hospital for over two years and visited maybe 20 hospitals and maybe six university hospitals. I have been more or less a fore runner for the guinea pigs. I am sure the doctors were not children and did not know why they were trying to find out what was wrong with me. I am sorry you cannot understand that there are somethings you just do not know. I am also sure I could teach you a thing or two about the human body, unless you already know everything. However, I will not go any farther with this, I cannot see it bringing anything that you can understand to the forum.
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  83. #283  
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    There are plenty of things which I do not know, especially in regards to medicine. I have always been open about the fact that I know little outside my field of expertise.

    What I am speaking to are the odds that you are the first ever case of some metaphysical illness. If you are patient zero, I will be the first person to eat my own words. I don't debate that you have or had an illness which was hard to properly identify, but I do debate that your illness was a curse put on you by a troll when you crossed his bridge without paying (about as logical as "bad vibrations").
    Last edited by Flick Montana; December 7th, 2013 at 02:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    I often notice several attacks against religion as being reasons for war, rape, etc. etc. I'm sure the list is long. If only religion did not exist, these things would decrease or those who use religion for such evil acts would be lost amongst the world with no power beside them to influence the rest of us. I'm also sure you may continue what may occur if religion did not exist to your excitement.

    Despite these claims, study will result in a different conclusion. Considering human history and human nature as well as the "what if God does not exist" concept. We will be left with humans will be humans, and an individual's decision is based purely on their own despite reasons, factors, or circumstances.

    The main influences to mankind's actions towards that which many commonly refer to as "evil" is in itself based on "evil" - also known as sin. The most common practices being summed as Pride, Wrath, Lust, Greed, Envy, Gluttony, and Sloth. These things and their explanations may change a little from here to there, but it seems that every culture touches on the subject. Some, are against while others have made exceptions to them, perhaps even "idolizing" their existence. It should be no surprise that these are among the most violent communities.

    We know animals protect their territory. Humans may have no other desire but to do the same. Unique to the animal kingdom, our minds and our thoughts are the likeness to whom we are. It is clear that they must be included as territory. If attacked, if conflicted, if opposed - it is our immediate desire to protect that which is us. the thing that makes you, you. That is pride. There is a line however, when this encroachment is a violation to our safety and self defense must take place. This line sure seems thin from time to time, but it is there.

    History has shown a great example of religion having some influence during many conflicts. Although it - along with land, resources, people - has been used as reason for many unfavorable actions, religion itself is not the actual reason or purpose to such actions. This is incredibly evident during times that the participating peoples practice a religion that their actions are contrary to.

    In conclusion, the absence of religion is not, what some hope for, a fix or solution; but an improbable hole in society in which those who abuse religion will only move on to another fix. Another excuse. For religion is no excuse, nor scapegoat for violence.


    thoughts? wanted to see what others think of this.
    I would suggest that religions, almost everyone of them are nationalistic and patriotically inclined, as the state or government only allows religions that confirm and back up their wars and violences against other countries. State allows church and state relationships with those religions that give them control over the souls of men and women, so that they do not question the actions of the state. This the same for Jewish, Muslim and so called Christian countries alike.

    Believe it or not, western church countries develop doctrines and verse mistranslations which back up declaring holy wars against Muslim countries, and so excuse their attacks on new Muslim countries as if they are obeying God, when they are just obeying their nationalistic governments and the rich who want to plunder yet another country through war.
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  85. #285  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidjayjordan View Post
    I would suggest that religions, almost everyone of them are nationalistic and patriotically inclined
    Yeah, because Christianity is so obviously English. Or did I mean American? Er, Dutch...?

    as the state or government only allows religions that confirm and back up their wars and violences against other countries.
    Bollocks.
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    Christ had love in his heart and wanted his followers to show love and spread love, but church churianity is very very violent and war mongering, and yet they take verses out of context and mis-interpret others to supposedly confirm that Jesus wants their governments to make war on their enemies. Right now they want the Muslims countries wealth and so deem Muslims as the enemy and the Great Satan. How very sad but true

    I hate religionists as they have personnally literally attacked me about six times. I don;t mean word attacks, but punches, machetes etc..... stay away from the religious, they can be the worst of the worst because they truly need the self esteem that religious superiority supposedly gives them. Just like people that say they love ******* and it becomes their religion as well.
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