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Thread: Shiva, shiva and daeva

  1. #1 Shiva, shiva and daeva 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    Shi·va --the creator and destroyer of the world illusion

    shiv·a ---also shivah and shibah-------seven

    deava ---a being of shining light and one of the wrong gods as/re Zoroastrianism

    "the gift of the Magi" --the magi were Zoroastrian sorcerer priest

    is there a connection to 7
    why 7
    the magnificent 7.......

    sitting seven

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?????

    I've often referred to my sitting and watching for a deer to enter the kill zone (kz)
    as sitting shiva----me beloved spouse mentioned that shiva was normally observed after
    the planting(not her word)----I said "I don't miss--- one day to kill dress and "quarter" the beasty
    one day to process and package the meat, and 5 days to try and catch up on the work not done during
    the first 2 days"
    ...................
    SO
    is there a real connection between the varied "religious" texts, or am i erring on the misunderstanding of similar words?

    ...............
    (I ain't completely confused yet----------------but I am working on it)


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    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Numerology may give you some more info into perceived significance of specific numbers. I know in some cultures 7 is considered lucky while in others I've been told it is the number of evil. 13 is often seen as unlucky while others see it as sacred based on 12 disciples plus Christ equals 13.

    But numerology is the one ... religion or belief system I know of that pays the most attention to the significance of the meanings of particular numbers.


    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Perhaps simply because it was a prime number. That's pretty interesting in its own right :-)

    (remember the looks the first time I gave out homework to a math class "pg....(what ever it was). Do all the all the prime numbers....ow ya and perfect squares." I ignored the whispered interrogatives as students asked others around)
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  5. #4  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    It is interesting how 7 comes up a lot in various belief systems. In the bible there are the seven signs of the second coming.

    And there are 7 dwarves, 7 continents and 7 seas.... Prince wrote a song called 7, Duran Duran had an album called 7 and the Ragged Tiger.

    Surely there is a perceived significance to the number seven that permeates many cultures and eras.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    It is interesting how 7 comes up a lot in various belief systems. In the bible there are the seven signs of the second coming.

    And there are 7 dwarves, 7 continents and 7 seas.... Prince wrote a song called 7, Duran Duran had an album called 7 and the Ragged Tiger.

    Surely there is a perceived significance to the number seven that permeates many cultures and eras.
    You could say the same thing about several different numbers, though. (No pun intended.)
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    It is interesting how 7 comes up a lot in various belief systems. In the bible there are the seven signs of the second coming.

    And there are 7 dwarves, 7 continents and 7 seas.... Prince wrote a song called 7, Duran Duran had an album called 7 and the Ragged Tiger.

    Surely there is a perceived significance to the number seven that permeates many cultures and eras.
    You could say the same thing about several different numbers, though. (No pun intended.)


    I have a sneaky suspicion that I am missing something here.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    seven is interesting number in math from there on it goes for everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    It is interesting how 7 comes up a lot in various belief systems. In the bible there are the seven signs of the second coming.

    And there are 7 dwarves, 7 continents and 7 seas.... Prince wrote a song called 7, Duran Duran had an album called 7 and the Ragged Tiger.

    Surely there is a perceived significance to the number seven that permeates many cultures and eras.
    Also:
    S-Club 7
    The Secret Seven
    The 7 Samurai

    I think 5 is better though:
    The Famous 5
    Five (pop group)
    The Jackson 5
    Channel 5
    5 arms on a star fish.
    Category 5 (most destructive hurricane rating)
    5 is also the 5th Fibonacci number (a double whammy!)

    Or may 3 is better......or maybe 9....



    I Like numerology.
    It is a fantastic example of cherry picking and confirmation bias.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Shi·va --the creator and destroyer of the world illusion
    From Sanskrit Sivah, literally "propitious, gracious," from a proto-Indo-European (PIE) root meaning "beloved, dear". So nothing to do with 7.

    deava ---a being of shining light and one of the wrong gods as/re Zoroastrianism
    Cognate with Diva, Desu, Zeus, etc. From PIE dewos "god" from a root dyeu- "to gleam, to shine" (which is also the root of words for "sky" and "day"). Nothing to do with 7.

    "the gift of the Magi" --the magi were Zoroastrian sorcerer priest
    Weren't there three of them, not seven?

    is there a connection to 7
    No.

    The seven days of the week are associated with the seven most visible "planets" (i.e. objects which move in the sky, which includes the sun and moon) and often 7 major ancient gods.

    Isaac Newton wanted there to be 7 colours in the rainbow so he split the bluest end into indigo and violet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I Like numerology.
    It is a fantastic example of cherry picking and confirmation bias.

    It reminds me of a thread by member nootelepat, who tried to prove Intelligent Design via numerology.
    Quite amusing to see (s)he had to make up and round a lot of numbers.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    so,
    sitting shiva has nothing to do with Shiva the creator and destroyer of the world illusion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    so,
    sitting shiva has nothing to do with Shiva the creator and destroyer of the world illusion?
    No, that is from a completely different language family (Semitic rather than Indo-European). Just a chance similarity of sounds.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  14. #13  
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    Magical power or healing skill associated since 16c. with the seventh son ["The seuenth Male Chyld by iust order (neuer a Gyrle or Wench being borne betweene)," Thomas Lupton, "A Thousand Notable Things," 1579].
    http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=seven
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  15. #14  
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    7 Deadly Sins:

    Lust
    Gluttony/Greed
    Sloth
    Wrath
    Envy
    Pride
    ...A belief in numerology.
    sculptor, RedPanda and seagypsy like this.
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  16. #15  
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    hahaha
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  17. #16  
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    the later babalonians were semites, who preceeded them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    the later babalonians were semites, who preceeded them?
    probably Egyptians... or Indians
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    It reminds me of a thread by member nootelepat, who tried to prove Intelligent Design via numerology.
    Quite amusing to see (s)he had to make up and round a lot of numbers.
    Yes*. That is a crazy thread.

    * This place needs an 'acknowledged' button!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    the later babalonians were semites, who preceeded them?
    Before Akkadian (a Semitic language) there was Sumerian (not related to any other known language). Cuneiform writing was originally developed for Sumerian and then adapted for Akkadian.

    Eventually, Akkadian replaced Sumerian as the main spoken language. Although Sumerian continued to be used for at least 1000 years as a ceremonial and religious language (a bit like Latin in the West). There may be some words which can trace their origin back to Sumerian; possibly "ass" (as in donkey, stop giggling at the back). And, of course, the remnants of their base-60 counting system in minutes and seconds.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    the later babalonians were semites, who preceeded them?
    Before Akkadian (a Semitic language) there was Sumerian (not related to any other known language). Cuneiform writing was originally developed for Sumerian and then adapted for Akkadian.

    Eventually, Akkadian replaced Sumerian as the main spoken language. Although Sumerian continued to be used for at least 1000 years as a ceremonial and religious language (a bit like Latin in the West). There may be some words which can trace their origin back to Sumerian; possibly "ass" (as in donkey, stop giggling at the back). And, of course, the remnants of their base-60 counting system in minutes and seconds.
    and what is summerian?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    and what is summerian?
    The language spoken by Sumerians. In Sumer. (Mesopotamia). And one of the earliest known written languages.
    Sumerian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    and what is summerian?
    The language spoken by Sumerians. In Sumer. (Mesopotamia). And one of the earliest known written languages.
    Sumerian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    well I know that... but whats difference with semitic? where it comes from how could akkadian take over??? isn't akkadian just developed summerian?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    well I know that... but whats difference with semitic? where it comes from how could akkadian take over??? isn't akkadian just developed summerian?
    They are completely separate, unrelated languages. I don't know very much about the history of the peoples of the area or why Akkadian took over as the dominant language. But this happened in many places (perhaps many times). There are traces of the ancient languages that existed in Europe before the Celts Germans and Romans arrived. The best known (and only surviving?) is Basque but there were several others.

    I think the Sumerians might have arrived in the area from further north and established cities, etc. They formed a strong cultural bond with the Akkadians who were already there. After some time the Akkadian kings started taking over more and more territory and displaced the Sumerian rulers (but carried on using both languages).

    That's about all I know of the history of the area (most of my study of the period has been focused on language and science).
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    to the best of my knowledge, the sumerian language is an isolate of unknown origin.
    if we knew the spoken language, perhaps it would fit within a language/ethnic/etc... family
    remember that Ur was said to be the birthplace of abraham
    which likely means that the latterday civilizations shared much of the original language

    a common concept is that as a new peoples move into an area, the language of the past populations remains as place names


    we also do not have a key to deciphering linear a from crete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    to the best of my knowledge, the sumerian language is an isolate of unknown origin.
    if we knew the spoken language, perhaps it would fit within a language/ethnic/etc... family
    We have large amounts of the written language, know something of how it was pronounced, etc. So I'm not sure what you mean or why it would make any difference. There is a lot that is not known, but enough is known to be sure it is not related to any known languages.

    Now, if other surrounding cultures had also developed writing then we might have been able to trace its origins and relationships among them.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    to the best of my knowledge, the sumerian language is an isolate of unknown origin.
    if we knew the spoken language, perhaps it would fit within a language/ethnic/etc... family
    We have large amounts of the ... language, know something of how it was pronounced, .
    for example?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    to the best of my knowledge, the sumerian language is an isolate of unknown origin.
    if we knew the spoken language, perhaps it would fit within a language/ethnic/etc... family
    remember that Ur was said to be the birthplace of abraham
    which likely means that the latterday civilizations shared much of the original language

    a common concept is that as a new peoples move into an area, the language of the past populations remains as place names


    we also do not have a key to deciphering linear a from crete.
    I know for example in Balkans... they systematically changed names... of villages streets etc regions etc...
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    We have large amounts of the ... language, know something of how it was pronounced, .
    for example?
    The Wikipedia page has a long description of the grammar and phonology: Sumerian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A database of 95,000 administrative tablets: BDTNS
    And of literature: ETCSL:ETCSLcorpus
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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