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Thread: How this creation has taken place?

  1. #1 How this creation has taken place? 
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    Can creation take place from nothing. How can nothing be something, this is why I feel there is a creator ? Should we consider matter to be conscious otherwise there has to be an external force which retains.
    Creation is only possible only when there is a balance between evolution and dissolution.
    kindly ellaborate with evey detaling and links.


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  3. #2  
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    Nothing is something and antisomething. Nothing is god and antigod.
    Nothing is good and evil.


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  4. #3 Re: How this creation has taken place? 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    Can creation take place from nothing.
    I do not believe that it can take place from absolutely nothing, no. Now something which partakes of some aspect of nothingness is a different matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    How can nothing be something,
    If nothing were something then that nothing would not be absolutely nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    this is why I feel there is a creator ?
    I hope this is not the only reason. Otherwise the atheists here will rip you to shreds.

    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    Should we consider matter to be conscious otherwise there has to be an external force which retains.
    Well this is hard to comment on. There are a few people who have suggested that particles act like they are conscious or something, but I don't believe it. I really cannot make sense of the rest of your statement

    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    Creation is only possible only when there is a balance between evolution and dissolution.
    Are you talking about spontaneous creation without a creator? Are you saying that creation without a creator is only possible in a steady state universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by vvedantist
    kindly ellaborate with evey detaling and links.
    I will respond how I choose to respond. If this for an assignment be sure you properly attribute everything you use.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  5. #4  
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    I don't know if I really understand what the original question is?

    vved asked (perhaps):

    Can creation take place from nothing.
    Without the question mark, one must consider whether this is a real question or a rhetorical question.

    He then adds:

    How can nothing be something, this is why I feel there is a creator ?
    And here we have what appears to be a question followed by a statement with a question mark.

    At this point I am wondering if vved is questioning the validity of his conclusion that because nothing cannot be somthing, therefore God exists.

    While I might agree with the conclusion, I do not agree with the logic.

    I could agree that because God exists, the invisible can become visible and I would find support for that in the Bible in Hebrews where 11:3 says, in part, ". . .so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

    This would not support the idea that nothing became something, but rather that what we are able to perceive came from something which was, at some point, imperceptable.

    This does not explain what the imperceptable things were nor how God turned them into that which is perceptable.

    That is not much of an explanation but it is, at least, as comprehensive as anything science has proposed.

    As to the rest of vved's post, I have no idea what he is talking about. I am especially interested in the relationship between evolution and dissolution. Is evolution precendent to dissolution? And, if so, how come I have experienced dissolution (the legal term for divorce) but never evolution?
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  6. #5  
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    I would like to say that God is not the creator of this world if it had been so.. than why should we suffer from hardships.. .For e.g : The lawyer is at much more fault than the normal person doing the same mistake... as he knows all the rules and regulations...

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  7. #6  
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    I'm not necessarily and Atheist, but how can anyone say that they don't believe that it's possible that something came from nothing then say there must be a creator? Where the hell did this creator come from??? This seems to be what people fall back on for religious beliefs, but yet no one stops to say that the creator had to come from nothing.

    Now let me ask you this. What's more likely, a random series of events happening to create a universe over billions of years OR the most complex power ever just pops out of nowhere and decides to create the universe. I'm not denying a greater power, but doesn't it seem more likely there was the universe then a greater power? It's a lot easier for me to believe that a Big Bang came from nothing then the greatest power ever known just popping up.
    WHAT?!
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  8. #7  
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    God created the earth and all things we see.


    We in our hearts all know that we were created. Why not try to finmd out what gods reason for making us is.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    God created the earth and all things we see.


    We in our hearts all know that we were created. Why not try to finmd out what gods reason for making us is.

    http://www.watchtower.org/
    No, we don't. The "in our hearts" thing is something that creationists say when they've been raised in the religion. And most other times it's when they have some psychological disorder (dependancy!).

    Sufficed to say, there is no yearning in my heart, nor numerous others, to the knowledge we were created. Furthermore, you offer absolutely NO evidence for that claim that god created everything we see.
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    Are you seriously saying youve never asked how we got here? What is life about?

    Im sure even a cynic like you has asked himself questions.

    Evolution claims we have no meaning or purpose other than passing on genes. Well many people want more than that. This is proof thatw e were indeed created.
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  11. #10  
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    Well, Jeremy, your writings provide ample evidence that there is no yearning for God in your heart which is why you do not recognize as evidence those things which, to some of us, are convincing. You, in turn, offer no evidence that we are not the product of a Godly creative endeavor. Your saying so, is no more proof than is a believer's belief. And before you try to prove your position, realize that nothing you provide would be sufficient to disuade believers.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  12. #11  
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    As long as most people continue to pass their genes, they can think of other purposes in their lives. Passing genes is the first priority.

    By the way, having children is not the only way to pass on genes. Sacrificing one's life to let his brothers and sisters live is also another way. And there are numerous strategies to pass on genes. They shape the lives' behavior.

    Man trying to find a purpose in life is not the proof that he is a result of divine creation. There is no logic in that.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Are you seriously saying youve never asked how we got here? What is life about?

    Im sure even a cynic like you has asked himself questions.

    Evolution claims we have no meaning or purpose other than passing on genes. Well many people want more than that. This is proof thatw e were indeed created.
    Good god...evolution does not give us a purpose. If it was a purpose, nobody could escape it. A purpose is something that genes cannot define, a purpose is something everyone decides for themselves using their mental capabilities.

    However, "how we got here" is pretty much answered by science already. Not religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    Well, Jeremy, your writings provide ample evidence that there is no yearning for God in your heart which is why you do not recognize as evidence those things which, to some of us, are convincing.
    All evidence I have seen "for" god can easily be viewed in a different light. Most of it isn't even true evidence, and the rest that is "true" tends to be very speculative at best. In most cases, counter evidence is as easily found as a simple google search.

    You, in turn, offer no evidence that we are not the product of a Godly creative endeavor. Your saying so, is no more proof than is a believer's belief. And before you try to prove your position, realize that nothing you provide would be sufficient to disuade believers.
    Actually...there are probably over a hundred of my posts in which I always offer sources, evidence, etc. It's getting old. I'm sick of typing the same things. You want evidence? Use the search feature.

    Also, I offer evidence against most claims anyway. Just very little. However, if I was trying to convert people, hell yes I'd provide assloads of information. But I'm not.
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  14. #13 Hmmmm.. 
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    If there indeed is a God then people need to give him more credit.

    It's wrong to put everything down to "natural causes" because if there is a God then what exactly is natural? If there is a God then whatever you call natural can only be natural to whatever live's in the universe and needn't apply to God.

    Stop saying "God created the earth". I don't think we are what God set out to create. In my opinion God made His own technology, which we know as science and then sat back to see it in action. Science is God's true creation, not us moron's. While we probably owe everything to God our real creator is science. God to us is probably more of a Grandfather figure..he he he.

    God created science, science created us! That's what I believe anyway's. We are almost a nothing in God's huge creation. If it was all about us then why is the universe so big? That's like me using a canvas the size of a 50 football field's to draw a picture of a coin. What a waste of space!

    There must be so much out there, and whatever God set out to do I'm sure He succeded and I'm sure he has better thing's to do then dwell on the thing's that us idiot's are doing on a planet, which to Him is probably the size of a grain of salt.

    If there is a God then what we know as natural would not be worth that title, only to us. Same way whatever kind of existance God has would be natural to Him and not us. So there's no telling how God would of come to be because you are not capable of understanding that. There may be a logical explanation as to how God came to exist but because of the difference in God's and our existance then it is not something you should even waste your time trying to figure out. Maybe God has always existed because that's how His nature work's? Anything and everything about God's way of life and nature would be different from our own.

    I just find it funny that people judge and make assumption's on the existance of God through what they know through science. If there is a God then He would of also created that science so why would science apply to, or explain weather or not there could be a God?
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  15. #14 Re: Hmmmm.. 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    If there indeed is a God then people need to give him more credit.
    I will say amen to that! People seem to enjoy poking holes in their own idiotic ideas of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Stop saying "God created the earth". I don't think we are what God set out to create. In my opinion God made His own technology, which we know as science and then sat back to see it in action. Science is God's true creation, not us moron's. While we probably owe everything to God our real creator is science. God to us is probably more of a Grandfather figure..he he he.
    Yes indeed and not quite. I believe that what God set out to create is life and that the physics of the universe is designed for this purpose. But I think that this fact, means that the universe itself is not designed at all. Much of it is the result of the spontaneous generation of complexity that is a necessary property of an environment that can give birth to life.

    But on the other hand, you must understand the nature of life is interaction with things outside of itself. Therefore I think the universe is only partially a closed system. It is also designed for limited interaction with that which is outside, including God. I do not think that God created life just to watch but to participate. In fact life is not something you can just watch. The relational character of life means that it is always a matter of participation. It is only question of how much participation and what kind. Even the creation of living things is not a process of design but of participation. Look at farmers and shepherds (or even a teacher or a parent). God is a shepherd not a clockmaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    God created science, science created us! That's what I believe anyway's. We are almost a nothing in God's huge creation. If it was all about us then why is the universe so big? That's like me using a canvas the size of a 50 football field's to draw a picture of a coin. What a waste of space!
    Now your terms are confused. Science is a human study of the objectively observable. Nor are we created by physical laws, for it is not a deterministic process. We are not gears in a clockwork. The womb is a big place to a single celled egg. It must attach to the uteran wall somewhere, but it is not so important just where it does attach.

    The universe is all about life, and since we are alive, it is all about us. It is not like using a canvas at all! A painted picture is not a living thing and creating is a matter of design, whereas the creation of living things could never be. It is not a waste of space if its purpose is fulfilled in us. There may be other life in the universe. I would even say probably. But I fear the answer to this is unknowable and even irrelevant. For if so the universe is also designed to keep us apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    If there is a God then what we know as natural would not be worth that title, only to us. Same way whatever kind of existance God has would be natural to Him and not us. So there's no telling how God would of come to be because you are not capable of understanding that. There may be a logical explanation as to how God came to exist but because of the difference in God's and our existance then it is not something you should even waste your time trying to figure out. Maybe God has always existed because that's how His nature work's? Anything and everything about God's way of life and nature would be different from our own.
    I disagree. We may be like bacteria trying to understand the human being whose gut we live in, but everything we experience still does relate to the nature of the whole, and there is no use saying not to use our powers of reason to attempt to understand because we do have those powers of reason and its use is part of the way we live and exist. Furthermore it is the nature of life to live and growing, increasing its interaction with the environment and becoming more and more aware of it. Infinite potential is the nature of life, and in human beings we see that awareness expanding to the limits of the universe and beyond. So even if we are insignificant compared to an infinite God, it is our nature to strive towards that infinity.

    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    I just find it funny that people judge and make assumption's on the existance of God through what they know through science. If there is a God then He would of also created that science so why would science apply to, or explain weather or not there could be a God?
    We are all just stumbling around in the dark clinging to the few different specks of light we are close enough to see. These specks may not illuminate very much but it is all that we can see, so it is our whole world. But you are right in the sense that if we want to understand and communicate with each other, we must realize that the light we live in is not the whole world.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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