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Thread: Does entropy disprove religion?

  1. #1 Does entropy disprove religion? 
    ox
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    Any system left to its own devices has a tendency to disorder.
    Soaring cathedrals, mosques and temples are destined eventually to end in dust. And the worms get us all in the end, irrespective of our religious beliefs.
    But one version of monotheism works off the idea that a man can survive a biological death. Other non-monotheistic eastern religions work off the principle of karma, a sort of cosmic order of souls based on a spiritual profit and loss account of good and bad actions which are then carried forward into the balance sheet of endless reincarnation.

    It always surprises me to read that many of the great physicists were believers in eastern mysticism. These included greats such as Schrodinger and Heisenberg. The soul then becomes the wave function (no less) of a previous incarnation. I don't know if these insights were the result of drug experimentation, but certainly Fritjof Capra's book The Tao of Physics was the result of just that. And I don't believe there are souls.
    So does anybody believe in the connection between quantum physics and eastern religion? If you do then how can you discount the truth of entropy which appears to me to disprove that there is some sort of eternal order in the universe.


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    Karma can be described as non-supernatural. Rather, it's 'cause and effect.'

    Other than that, what's not real is not real. I don't find eastern religions to be any more grounded in reality than western religions.


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    I always find,Hindu religion much suitable for me than western or other religion,
    Its based on Karma, Karma itself is worship
    Without Karma, worship is false
    Ultimate God of Hindu religion is "Shivji " in other words Matter
    And "Shakti " is ultimate Goddess in Hindu religion , "Shakti " word means Energy

    Despcite religion is completly based on mercy, kindness and love &This religion completely based on vegitarian
    Another eastern religion is "Budh" religion which I also find very spiritual and different than western religions
    It also gives message of peace

    But overall its a subjective matter, if a religion is a perfect for one religion , for second person it may be second religion
    There is no comparison of religions, its a personal matter
    In reality, I can not believe in existence of God
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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    Religion cannot be disproved. But neither can it be proved. (I guess if there occurred today a bunch of old-testament-type miracles and destructions, witnessed by masses of people, then that would be some sort of proof.)
    Last edited by PumaMan; May 8th, 2013 at 11:43 AM.
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  6. #5  
    ox
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJ_K View Post
    Ultimate God of Hindu religion is "Shivji " in other words Matter
    And "Shakti " is ultimate Goddess in Hindu religion , "Shakti " word means Energy
    In that case do you see any connection between Hinduism and the western science of energy and matter?
    I remember reading John Woodroffe on the subject of Tantra (Shakti and Shakta) but he lost me on the technical details.
    Does Hinduism here imply some form of entropy or none at all?
    You are perhaps better placed to judge why some western scientists have embraced certain aspects of eastern religions. The further east the religion, it seems the closer the connection with quantum physics (ie. Christianity - no connection; Hinduism some connection; Taoism quite a lot).
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The further east the religion, it seems the closer the connection with quantum physics (ie. Christianity - no connection; Hinduism some connection; Taoism quite a lot).
    Only if you fudge it and make spurious and specious connections.
    Capra has been heavily slated for his book and positing that connection.

    Let me answer the thread's question - Does entropy disprove religion? - with one of my own - does Heaven suffer from entropy?
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    So does anybody believe in the connection between quantum physics and eastern religion? ox
    I am sure of it ....that is ...there are many that would believe that at a mere suggestion. Wouldn't that still be a belief? And some would be and probably are religious about it, which means they involve their imagined god into the recipe, and that will cook up another book or two on the subject........ but now, what does that really have to do with quantum physics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Any system left to its own devices has a tendency to disorder. {etc}
    One can never use science to disprove religion. Religion does not conform to the rules of science. One may always invoke the catch-all "god works in mysterious ways" to refute any scientific argument. So forget your entropy argument.

    But while we're on the subject of religion and thermodynamics, you may find this old calculation (and associated discussion) amusing: Heaven is Hotter than Hell
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    Religion gives you a framework or philosophy within which to form your thoughts. It may well have helped these great thinkers to come up with their ideas. However, their ideas are not direct conclusions one could logically draw by extending that religion's philosophies.

    Quantum Mechanics is a pretty advanced thing. It was clearly formed from the previous accomplishments of their contemporaries. One can draw a pretty straight line through the steps that it went through.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    what's not real is not real. I don't find eastern religions to be any more grounded in reality than western religions.
    They had some order along those lines..

    what's not real is not real:

    "La illaha" = there is no concept of duality, "Illah Allah" = only the senses are Real.
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Religion gives you a framework or philosophy within which to form your thoughts. It may well have helped these great thinkers to come up with their ideas.
    Religion is a having a belief in a supernatural that determine all aspects of your life. Religion dulls the thought process, and in too many cases completely destroys the ability to reason. It is a framework to inhibit your thoughts, and control your mind. Do you understand the word, "indoctrination"? ......As for drawing a line. We can draw a line back through our ancestry back to before religion. That alone should give you a hint as to whether man invented gods or gods invented man?
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    Religion is nothing just a social/psychological phenomena&nbsp; <br>It may be based on true information, false information<br>Practically it is practiced on highly strict way &amp; not flexible, <br>It does not accept new knowledge, and does not replace new information with wrong information <br>This makes most of its assumptions false<br>It is also illogical to high level<br>In religion we determine a person/entity a ultimate truth<br>We stop thinking logically<br>When doors of a house are completely closed, naturally fresh air can not go in rooms<br><br>Most of information delivered in religion is highly inaccurate, false and just supposed<br><br>No matter religion may be eastern or western<br><br>Remember religion is a psychological need&nbsp; &amp; not output of logical mind <br><br><br><br>
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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    Any framework, no matter how wacky, allows a person to focus on specifics while leaving the rest of their understanding in stasis. That's essential for science. You can't always be asking yourself "how does this specific phenomenon apply to the rest of my model of reality?" It's good to ask that from time to time, but not constantly. If your present observation were to contradict that model, you might try to explain it away instead of accepting it.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
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    I AGREE! Well Spoke!
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    One can never use science to disprove religion. Religion does not conform to the rules of science. One may always invoke the catch-all "god works in mysterious ways" to refute any scientific argument. So forget your entropy argument.
    The unity and continuity of Vedanta are reflected in the unity and continuity of wave mechanics (Schroedinger).

    If God (or Brahma or whatever is called the cosmic superpower) is the source of all things then God must be the origin of entropy. Entropy anticipated the Big Bang Theory. But why would God want to create disorder rather than order? Things can only get worse, not better. Why is God's creation doomed to destruction with the endgame of the universe leaving nothing left but radiation?

    If the universe is one big mass of interconnected shimmering waves (at times condensed into matter) rather than a myriad of separate entities then this could I suppose satisfy both religion and physics. Schroedinger embraced both entropy and the Vedanta, but was he wrong about the Vedanta?

    PS. Benjamin Franklin demolished the idea of an omnipotent God with the invention of the lightning rod. A truly omnipotent God would have found an alternative.
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    If you are going to use science to test the validity of a religion, why not just drop the religion and go with the science?
    This thread doesn't make sense. Ox, your obsession with religion makes for some really weird threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    Don't suppose you know if there a delete tab for wrong posts?
    Not on this forum. But you can kindly PM a mod and ask them to delete it when they have a chance. Of course... they may need to delete this post and your response I quoted, as well... Oh yeah, and the "I agree!" post.
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    Thanks NF, I'll give it a whirl!!
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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  20. #19  
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    You can also just edit the text to say "Self Deleted". That's a little less awkward than empty space.
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    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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