Notices
Results 1 to 32 of 32
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By scoobydoo1
  • 1 Post By John Galt
  • 1 Post By Hassnhadi
  • 1 Post By MrMojo1
  • 1 Post By Hassnhadi

Thread: So do Christians just competely deny the SCIENCE ..

  1. #1 So do Christians just competely deny the SCIENCE .. 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    57
    behind how old the earth is and are not labeled mentally ill or abnormal? So they say its how many thousands of years old? I can understand that they do this since they have evidence in the bible to prove the bible is true (nother story) but if u want to know where i stand of all places ... i dont believe the earth is even thousands of years old so i dont agree with either of u.


     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    How old do you think it is?


     

  4. #3  
    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    So do Christians just completely deny the SCIENCE behind how old the earth is and are not labeled mentally ill or abnormal?
    That isn't a properly formatted question. Can you rephrase it please? Such as "Why aren't christians who disagrees with what science has uncovered about the age of the planet Earth labelled mentally ill or abnormal?" or perhaps "Why aren't people (be they religious or otherwise) who disagrees with what science has uncovered about any particular subject considered mentally ill or abnormal?"

    To answer a question like that we will have to look into what "mentally ill" is in a psychiatry context, and also go into what is normal and abnormal; such as the mechanisms for belief and disbelief, and whether it is (ab)normal to believe in something that leads to a secondary effect of disbelieving in something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    So they say its how many thousands of years old?
    Some do, such as YECs but that isn't a symptom (perhaps not the most appropriate term, but you folks get the general idea) from the abrahamic religions alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    so i dont agree with either of u.
    Noted on your disagreement. Is there something else you wish to add?
    MrMojo1 likes this.
     

  5. #4  
    Genius Duck Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,992
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    i dont believe the earth is even thousands of years old so i dont agree with either of u.
    So, effectively, you're asking how someone can deny science with regard to the Earth's age while, at the same time, doing so yourself.
    Therefore would not a good start point be to examine your own beliefs and why you hold them?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    behind how old the earth is and are not labeled mentally ill or abnormal? So they say its how many thousands of years old? I can understand that they do this since they have evidence in the bible to prove the bible is true (nother story) but if u want to know where i stand of all places ... i dont believe the earth is even thousands of years old so i dont agree with either of u.
    Fortunately the universe very rarely pays heed to the views of sixteen year olds with solopsistic tendencies. The best you can hope for is to generate a few smiles and face palms on a science forum. Is that what you were aiming for?
    KALSTER likes this.
     

  7. #6  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Yes, probably ranting again as usual, you know it would be great to get fundementalists or verbal slanging match conventions so they can vent their frustration at each other construcitvely, and by that I mean with chairs.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
     

  8. #7  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMichael View Post
    but if u want to know where i stand of all places ...
    Sure, and I'll let you know where I stand on what color the sky is.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Some do, such as YECs but that isn't a symptom (perhaps not the most appropriate term, but you folks get the general idea) from the Abraham religions alone.
    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution and such but I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    618
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Some do, such as YECs but that isn't a symptom (perhaps not the most appropriate term, but you folks get the general idea) from the Abraham religions alone.
    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution and such but I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
    I was under the impression that in part of the Islamic creation stories there was a narrative of human beings being "magically" made from a clot of blood. Am I wrong about this?
     

  11. #10  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    5,894
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post

    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution
    Well....what are you waiting for?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Some do, such as YECs but that isn't a symptom (perhaps not the most appropriate term, but you folks get the general idea) from the Abraham religions alone.
    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution and such but I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
    I was under the impression that in part of the Islamic creation stories there was a narrative of human beings being "magically" made from a clot of blood. Am I wrong about this?
    Well not magically I can assure you, in Islam, God doesn't just make stuff randomly or just "sneezes them into existence".. The clot of blood represents the stage in which blood appears in the embryo or something like that..

    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post

    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution
    Well....what are you waiting for?
    Lol, it's 4:54AM right now and it's weekend for Muslims so it's my brain's day-off as well lol
    John Galt likes this.
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,240
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
    I have not mentioned anything regarding the evolutionary biology.
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
    I have not mentioned anything regarding the evolutionary biology.
    That's what happens when you stay up to 6AM on a scientific forum
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    618
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Some do, such as YECs but that isn't a symptom (perhaps not the most appropriate term, but you folks get the general idea) from the Abraham religions alone.
    Islam doesn't say much about evolution, some Muslims accept it, others accept some parts of it and most of them didn't accept it.. I, myself, can't really judge because I don't know that much about evolution and such but I don't think you should list Islam as an Abraham religion who disbelieve in "evolutionism"
    I was under the impression that in part of the Islamic creation stories there was a narrative of human beings being "magically" made from a clot of blood. Am I wrong about this?
    Well not magically I can assure you, in Islam, God doesn't just make stuff randomly or just "sneezes them into existence".. The clot of blood represents the stage in which blood appears in the embryo or something like that..
    Okay, what is the means or method by which humans came about as described in Islam that adheres to the Theory of Evolution?
     

  16. #15  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Islam shares the creation myths of the other Abrahamic religions including the creation of the world in 6 days, and Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise.
    Islamic mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In light of modern scientific knowledge about the origins of the earth and the universe, many modern interpretations particularly by apologists, prefer to view the word "day" (Arabic: يوم) as used in the Qur'an to mean an arbitrary period of time or epoch; They justify this view by explaining that the usage of the word "day" to mean an arbitrary period of time is not uncommon.
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Islam shares the creation myths of the other Abrahamic religions including the creation of the world in 6 days, and Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise.
    Islamic mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In light of modern scientific knowledge about the origins of the earth and the universe, many modern interpretations particularly by apologists, prefer to view the word "day" (Arabic: يوم) as used in the Qur'an to mean an arbitrary period of time or epoch; They justify this view by explaining that the usage of the word "day" to mean an arbitrary period of time is not uncommon.
    Yes, Islam states that God created the universe but creationists -as far as I know- disagree with the big bang and claim it false or it's against God somehow, while Islam shows in various amount of verses that God didn't just sneeze things into existence

    "Then did you think that We created you uselessly and that to Us you would not be returned?" (23:115)
    "And We did not create the heaven and earth and that between them in play. (21:16)
    "And We did not create the heavens and earth and that between them in play. We did not create them except in truth, but most of them do not know." (44:38-39)
    NOTE: The Arabic translation kind of effects the translation but the general translation is correct.
    On the creation of the universe, the Qur'an talks about what appears to be the Big Bang..

    “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (21:30)
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    618
    I failed to see how those verses relate to the Theory of Evolution or the Theory of the Big Bang. I guess it requires a tremendous leap of faith to have those verses follow into either Theory.
     

  19. #18  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    It's not so hard to look at the thread title and stick to the topic before it even reaches its 2nd page.....just saying.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    I failed to see how those verses relate to the Theory of Evolution or the Theory of the Big Bang. I guess it requires a tremendous leap of faith to have those verses follow into either Theory.
    We were talking about Islamic mythology not evolution.. The second verse somewhat talks about the Big Bang..
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    618
    The term "we" in those verses defy known scientific explanation. There is no demonstrable evidence at this time that any grouping of a "we" existing, nor having any causal effect on cosmology or human evolution.
    Neverfly likes this.
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    I'm going to assume you're an Atheist, correct me if I'm wrong. But you just made an obvious point somehow. No one can prove God exists or doesn't exist scientifically.. I can't prove God exists absolutely and you can't prove he doesn't..
    Nehushtan likes this.
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    618
    You are correct in your assumptions, but they are irrelevant to topic at hand.

    You implied (with the verses you selected) that Islam talks about the Big Bang Theory(BBT). There is nothing in the BBT which notes causality started from agents ("we"), therefore this makes your implication false. Evolution Theory destroys the claims of creation myth stories of a single human couple originating from non-natural means. Since Christians have many doctrines which are hinge on the "fall of man" theme within the creation stories, that worldview has more vested interest to deny the sciences.

    But now some conservative scholars are saying publicly that they can no longer believe the Genesis account. Asked how likely it is that we all descended from Adam and Eve, Dennis Venema, a biologist at Trinity Western University, replies: "That would be against all the genomic evidence that we've assembled over the last 20 years, so not likely at all...
    ...Venema says there is no way we can be traced back to a single couple. He says with the mapping of the human genome, it's clear that modern humans emerged from other primates as a large population — long before the Genesis time frame of a few thousand years ago. And given the genetic variation of people today, he says scientists can't get that population size below 10,000 people at any time in our evolutionary history."
    (From an NPR discussion with Evangelicals)

    The NPR article highlights the work of J. Schneider while at Calvin College (he had to leave the institution after publishing this work) which challenged the historicity of the Adam and Eve stories, since the research in human genomics support Evolution Theory. Proponents of Adam/Eve stories accurately note that without that part of the creation stories, the role of Jesus Christ becomes unnecessary. There is no need for a savior if there is no "fall of man" which occurred in a magical garden by two original humans.

    Recent Genetic Science and the Christian Theology on Human Origins: An Aesthetic Supralapsarianism

    Evangelicals Question The Existence of Adam and Eve : NPR broadcast by B. Hagerty
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    You are correct in your assumptions, but they are irrelevant to topic at hand.

    You implied (with the verses you selected) that Islam talks about the Big Bang Theory(BBT). There is nothing in the BBT which notes causality started from agents ("we"), therefore this makes your implication false. Evolution Theory destroys the claims of creation myth stories of a single human couple originating from non-natural means. Since Christians have many doctrines which are hinge on the "fall of man" theme within the creation stories, that worldview has more vested interest to deny the sciences.

    But now some conservative scholars are saying publicly that they can no longer believe the Genesis account. Asked how likely it is that we all descended from Adam and Eve, Dennis Venema, a biologist at Trinity Western University, replies: "That would be against all the genomic evidence that we've assembled over the last 20 years, so not likely at all...
    ...Venema says there is no way we can be traced back to a single couple. He says with the mapping of the human genome, it's clear that modern humans emerged from other primates as a large population — long before the Genesis time frame of a few thousand years ago. And given the genetic variation of people today, he says scientists can't get that population size below 10,000 people at any time in our evolutionary history."
    (From an NPR discussion with Evangelicals)

    The NPR article highlights the work of J. Schneider while at Calvin College (he had to leave the institution after publishing this work) which challenged the historicity of the Adam and Eve stories, since the research in human genomics support Evolution Theory. Proponents of Adam/Eve stories accurately note that without that part of the creation stories, the role of Jesus Christ becomes unnecessary. There is no need for a savior if there is no "fall of man" which occurred in a magical garden by two original humans.

    Recent Genetic Science and the Christian Theology on Human Origins: An Aesthetic Supralapsarianism

    Evangelicals Question The Existence of Adam and Eve : NPR broadcast by B. Hagerty
    The "We" agent is actually relevant to what I was talking about, let me put this in an example, let's assume that God is like a kid with a ball.. He puts it on the edge of an end point.. And then the "wind" rolls the ball down, which gives it movement/velocity/momentum and such, this shows the following:

    The ball was affected by a certain force according to Newton's first law of Motion (Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.)
    The kid (God) is the one that put the ball in it's position and let it react naturally by it's
    environments elements without him getting or changing the anything.. Same goes for the big bang theory.. God created the universe (put the ball in it's place) and created the environment for that universe and let it react on its own.. Even if we assume that God is the one that made Big Bang happen by him entering the equation and changing the environment elements which caused the Big Bang (High temperature and density) we can't prove the interruption by God or if he didn't but we both know that the Big Bang happened..
     

  25. #24  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Nonscientific speculation that has little to nothing to do with the OP, which was what some Christians think and how they reconcile their beliefs against science. Ideally the discussion would have referenced the doctrines of Christians denomination perhaps backed by some self-identifying anecdotal. Instead it went into a metaphysical discussion about god and perhaps how Muslim's think. Last warning before closure.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
     

  26. #25  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    We were talking about Islamic mythology not evolution..
    Fascinating. A Muslim would never refer to his beliefs as 'mythology.'

    I Smell a Rat.
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    and it's weekend for Muslims so it's my brain's day-off as well lol
    While I'm using my nose... Might as well ask you to explain this one, as well.
     

  27. #26  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    As well as having stayed Fifteen years old for almost two years, now...:
    Viewing Profile of Hassnhadi :: Cheeseformice

    Location California and originally from Iraq... though you said the time earlier in this thread- showing as the proper time for Iraq...

    So who are you really and what is with the game you're playing at, here?
     

  28. #27  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    We were talking about Islamic mythology not evolution..
    Fascinating. A Muslim would never refer to his beliefs as 'mythology.'

    I Smell a Rat.
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    and it's weekend for Muslims so it's my brain's day-off as well lol
    While I'm using my nose... Might as well ask you to explain this one, as well.
    First of all, relax, I thought mythology meant the set of believes not the study of myths.. English isn't my mother-tongue language

    Second of all, Muslims, unlike Christians and possibly Jews have Thursday as their weekend not Friday, week begins at Sunday not Monday for Muslims..
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    As well as having stayed Fifteen years old for almost two years, now...:
    Viewing Profile of Hassnhadi :: Cheeseformice

    Location California and originally from Iraq... though you said the time earlier in this thread- showing as the proper time for Iraq...

    So who are you really and what is with the game you're playing at, here?
    When I registered to Cheeseformice I was living in California before I came back to Iraq and

    I'm me and there's no game, you should get a day off lol
     

  30. #29  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    you should get a day off lol
    Perhaps, but I still smell a rat.
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    you should get a day off lol
    Perhaps, but I still smell a rat.
    I can assure you I'm not a rat lol
     

  32. #31  
    Forum Masters Degree
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    548
    Not just Christians but every religion deny science as base of religion is completely opposite to science.
    Science: Only believes what is proved and for new reality all doors are always open
    Religion :Mostly believes that can never be proved and for new thing all doors are always closed
     

  33. #32  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Iraq~
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJ_K View Post
    Not just Christians but every religion deny science as base of religion is completely opposite to science. Science: Only believes what is proved and for new reality all doors are always open Religion :Mostly believes that can never be proved and for new thing all doors are always closed
    Base of religion is completely opposite of science? Do you know what you're talking about? "Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave." -Prophet Mohammed "Seeking knowledge is an obligation upon every Muslim." -Prophet Mohammed The scientist who theorized the Big Bang was a Christian priest, the first full blood cycle in a human was explained by a Muslim, Carl Sagan is a Jewish scientists As a matter of fact, if you go to Wikipedia and search of list for scientists with religions, the list is quite long.. Many famous people who changed the world had a religion.. I hope you're aware of what you say before you say it.
     

Similar Threads

  1. Did Christians keep slaves?
    By filix in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: March 17th, 2012, 11:10 AM
  2. How can Christians believe in hell?
    By cookiejr in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: January 12th, 2012, 02:33 PM
  3. Why do christians
    By Pikkhaud in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2008, 09:00 AM
  4. christians persecuted
    By marnixR in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: June 7th, 2007, 01:37 AM
  5. Christians are hypocrites
    By geezer in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 31st, 2005, 09:19 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •