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View Poll Results: Should gay marriages be legal or no?

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Thread: Homosexuality and Gay Marriages - Religious View

  1. #1 Homosexuality and Gay Marriages - Religious View 
    Forum Freshman Bonzo's Avatar
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    What do people on here have to say about gay marriages from a religious perspective if you are part of any that is..? This is open to all faiths realizing that most do believe it to be a sinful act..

    Being Roman Catholic, it's a straight up NO. Gay marriages are wrong, and definition of marriage is a unity between man and a woman.. blah blah.. does anyone want to quote the Bible? I see it a bit differently, I try to balance equality and religion. I don't need to pick sides cause Christ's words are 'to love your neighbours as you love one another'.. not exact terms but somewhere close.. and if he/she happens to be homosexual, then it isn't my place to judge them :P And Christianity is about teaching the gospel, and not enforcing it.. if they choose to be gay, then really it's their choice :P

    Pretty neutral as you can see.. but yeah. My church had a petition going on when this bill was first introduced in the parliament :P People were asked to sign it claiming it's a sin.. should be condemned or something...


    Well what are thoughts? If this thread has been made before, someone can go ahead and lock it :P


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    I see no legitimate or logical reason to disallow same-sex marriages. If two people are in love, they deserve to share the same rights and privileges of any two opposing genders who agree to commit to each other a monogamous partnership. Marriage is an institution of man, not religion. Religions condone marriages and have their cult ceremonies surrounding them, but pair-bonding is a natural occurrence, even if homosexual.

    Furthermore, religion has no business involving itself in the laws and policies of developed and progressive nations (or *any* nation for that matter). If religious cults refuse to acknowledge homosexuality and same-sex marriage, that's their prerogative. If superstitious people don't like homosexuality or same-sex marriage, they should screw people of their opposing gender and decline any offers to marry within the same sex. Easy.


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  4. #3  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Marriage: legal relationship between spouses: a legally recognized relationship, established by a civil or religious ceremony, between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners
    Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    Well that explains it to me. Marriage can be religious or just for the legal purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Religions condone marriages and have their cult ceremonies surrounding them, but pair-bonding is a natural occurrence, even if homosexual.
    Ya, what he said.

    I don't really believe in the idea of marriage anyways.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    I didn't vote because the poll does not have enough options. There must be some sort of compromise on this issue.

    I don't think it is right for the homosexual community to change the definition of marriage to suit themselves. Marriage has always been a contract between a man and a woman, and has traditionally been for the purpose of bearing children. Anyway, I don't see why we have to fit everything into the same mold, marriage is obviously not working for a great many people. Maybe it is time to have a few more options available to better meet the more complex needs of a more diverse population.

    Maybe this "till death do us part" thing is a little excessive for some people and shorter term contracts are more appropriate. I mean it seems to me that a lot of people already go into marriage with the idea that it cannot last anyway, so why not stop living a lie like this and allow more options that better match peoples needs?

    So in the case of homosexual couples I think they need to start their own traditions and contracts that suit the kind of relationship they want and stop trying take a short cut by forcing the rest of society to change our traditions to suit their lifestyle.
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  6. #5  
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    I voted NO, In weddings years ago [and at my first] the words "Marriage is the union of one man and woman... etc" The marriage cereomony evolved from church law in England. I equally believe that those who wish to live in same sex relationships should have a ceremony of their own, perhaps with the same rights as marriage but called something else. Call it a 'union ceremony' if you like. If that makes me an old 'fart' so be it! There would be no harm if they said "we are unified", I feel quite sure most religious people are horrified [and if you are reading this ophie, No I haven't done a poll!]. :wink:
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  7. #6  
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    "Yes! Most definitely." was my answer.

    Love isn't sex. It's not what you have between your legs that counts..
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  8. #7  
    Forum Senior profahmfaw's Avatar
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    ALLAH created sex for Reproduction of human race in the most of all beings.....I , You and all of us came by this operation.

    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ..but we can amuse ourselves without leaving the main purpose with our wives.

    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..this mean that animals are smarter than you.
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids .

    Sorry moderators I mean one man maybe two and I will not say this again.

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...
    stop talking shit about your toilet paper and people will start taking you seriusly

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..
    yes we do, apes are contuniesly bieng gayish. girls plays with girls and boys with boys in their species and many other specieses aswell

    they have small brains talk ,talk and talk...
    its your brainsize we have to question, not everybody else

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    who cares? what happened before dont chance what happens or what should happen

    take your rpeacius toilet paper and pray to it and be quite about irrelevant thing
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  10. #9  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...
    stop talking shit about your toilet paper and people will start taking you seriusly

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..
    yes we do, apes are contuniesly bieng gayish. girls plays with girls and boys with boys in their species and many other specieses aswell

    they have small brains talk ,talk and talk...
    its your brainsize we have to question, not everybody else

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    who cares? what happened before dont chance what happens or what should happen

    take your rpeacius toilet paper and pray to it and be quite about irrelevant thing

    I agree zelos. There is actually a book on gay animals and goes across most familys of animals

    http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999...5featurea.html


    I see you put another personal dig in there prof
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    ALLAH created sex to give birth to babies and Reproduction in the most of all beings.....I , You and all of us came by this operation.

    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ..but we can amuse ourselves without leaving the main purpose with our wives.

    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..this mean that animals are smarter than you.
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids .

    Sorry moderators I mean one man maybe two and I will not say this again.

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    Prof,
    I tried to mediate but your level of intolerance to the views of others and your insults, even accepting your poor grasp of English, is unacceptable.

    I conclude you are nothing more than a mischief maker.

    Caveman, Zelos, I think you are both falling into a trap here, he'll cut and paste your replies and send them home to show how 'evil' we are.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    Caveman, Zelos, I think you are both falling into a trap here, he'll cut and paste your replies and send them home to show how 'evil' we are.
    who cares what a idiot does? if we did we would have to listen to alot of shit and never get anything done.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  13. #12  
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    profahmfaw, I am reluctant to post this, since several other posters may already be seen to be 'picking' on you. However, I feel some points are too relevant to ignore.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    ALLAH created sex to give birth to babies and Reproduction in the most of all beings.
    This is an opinion. Do you not feel you might encourage a more sympathetic response by prefacing your remarks with words such as "I believe", or "My faith tells me.."?
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ...
    Science tells us that the use of sex as a recreational device arose because it encouraged pair bonding, which in turn increased the probability that the father would remain to help raise the children. Since this is wholly compatible with the concept of marriage and the raising of children in a family setting I am surprised you discard it so easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...
    This is so foolish it is barely even an argument. If all people chose to be bus drivers there would be nobody to grow our food. Therefore driving buses will lead to the starvation of the human population. !!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals...
    Point 1: This is offensive and hurtful to those who are homosexual. Please cease such remarks.
    Point 2: Homosexuality is commonplace amongst animals. You really should do some research before making statements that can be shown to be false.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids ..
    I am sure they feel the same about you. :wink:
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    You objected to posters insulting your religion. Is it acceptable to insult the lifestyle of persons, when that lifestyle is not really open to choice?
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  14. #13  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    profahmfaw, I am reluctant to post this, since several other posters may already be seen to be 'picking' on you. However, I feel some points are too relevant to ignore.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    ALLAH created sex to give birth to babies and Reproduction in the most of all beings.
    This is an opinion. Do you not feel you might encourage a more sympathetic response by prefacing your remarks with words such as "I believe", or "My faith tells me.."?
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ...
    Science tells us that the use of sex as a recreational device arose because it encouraged pair bonding, which in turn increased the probability that the father would remain to help raise the children. Since this is wholly compatible with the concept of marriage and the raising of children in a family setting I am surprised you discard it so easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...
    This is so foolish it is barely even an argument. If all people chose to be bus drivers there would be nobody to grow our food. Therefore driving buses will lead to the starvation of the human population. !!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals...
    Point 1: This is offensive and hurtful to those who are homosexual. Please cease such remarks.
    Point 2: Homosexuality is commonplace amongst animals. You really should do some research before making statements that can be shown to be false.
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids ..
    I am sure they feel the same about you. :wink:
    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    You objected to posters insulting your religion. Is it acceptable to insult the lifestyle of persons, when that lifestyle is not really open to choice?

    Ophiolite, im not picking on him as a rule i just disagree with bogoted views of the world, if prof was to make no bigotted views on another science subject i would have no problem discussing it without spiraling it into a personal slanging match. I dont hold grudges, its not in my nature :-D

    Every comment he makes is aggressive with no respect for other members views or beliefs, he cant accept to agree to disagree

    I personally am not personally attacking the guy, i disagree with the politics of islam and my views on the subject with scifiguy are totally respectful and a joy to discuss with

    And all his comments to me and some other members are personal, just look at the post above this. How is this a constructive argument or discussion?
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  15. #14  
    Forum Senior profahmfaw's Avatar
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    I am sorry for my poor in english.I respect all members here but it is not acceptable to insult MY RELIGION OR QURAAN.
    Although I am tired ,I will never stop.

    Thanks Bilco for calling me mischief maker ..we have to respect any work this is what Islam told us.

    Islam says that any work is worship to ALLAH
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  16. #15  
    Forum Senior profahmfaw's Avatar
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    Ophiolite wrote:
    This is an opinion. Do you not feel you might encourage a more sympathetic response by prefacing your remarks with words such as "I believe", or "My faith tells me.."?

    I changed my introduction.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON.
    yeah, we have seen you, you came to the forum its the punishment

    .I respect all members here but it is not acceptable to insult MY RELIGION OR QURAAN
    dont come with stupid things from it that is pulled from your ass, and the insults will stop aswell. like the "YOU WILL SEE YOUR PUNISHMENT SOON. " makes your religion look worse and is more stupid and is so stupid it doesnt even deserv any respect, only insults

    Islam says that any work is worship to ALLAH
    why worship toilet paper?
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  18. #17  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    I am sorry for my poor in english.I respect all members here but it is not acceptable to insult MY RELIGION OR QURAAN.
    Although I am tired ,I will never stop.

    Thanks Bilco for calling me mischief maker ..we have to respect any work this is what Islam told us.

    Islam says that any work is worship to ALLAH

    With respect you brought Islam into this discussion and it is our right to disagree with your views on it, if it goes against our beliefs, as you can also :-D
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  19. #18  
    Forum Freshman Bonzo's Avatar
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    How about all of you keep your personal differences out of my thread!? You can carry this on private level or in some other Islam related thread since there are multiple of em..

    On that note,

    Quote:
    Islam says that any work is worship to ALLAH

    why worship toilet paper?
    Ouch! That's cold.. how about we watch what we say next time seeing this just doesn't affect him but others too..?



    Anyways, back to the ORIGINAL topic..

    So in the case of homosexual couples I think they need to start their own traditions and contracts that suit the kind of relationship they want and stop trying take a short cut by forcing the rest of society to change our traditions to suit their lifestyle.
    But isn't that discrimination then which can be agreed is wrong to do?
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  20. #19  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    I dont see anything wrong with the civil ceremonys, they get married and get the same rights then, when it comes to wills, mortgages, pensions etc of a married hetrosexual couple

    Then the church hasn't got to get involved and problem solved, civil ceremonys dont have to be/arn't ordained by god(if thats your thing :wink: ) and is merely the legal joining of two people
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzo
    So in the case of homosexual couples I think they need to start their own traditions and contracts that suit the kind of relationship they want and stop trying take a short cut by forcing the rest of society to change our traditions to suit their lifestyle.
    But isn't that discrimination then which can be agreed is wrong to do?
    In many countries, and certainly most western countries adult males may not enter toilet facilities set aside for females, and vice versa.Surely this is a form of discrimination?
    Members of the public may not walk in off the street to a lecture for second year students at a University. Surely this is a form of discrimination?
    I am sure you can think of a thousand further examples.
    Homosexual marriage would be discernibly different from heterosexual marriage. Therefore, if the analogy I am putting forward has any validity, proposing similar, but different contracts and traditions, need not be discriminatory.
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  22. #21  
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    I have to say that I have not found a good reason that homosexuals should not be able to get married. I believe that love is love, and if you love someone you should be able to get married to them. I don't think that they shouldn't for any religious reason, being that I am far from that, and I don't find the argument that the definition of marriage thus far has been "between man and woman" any good. Society changes, laws change. If there is anyone with a good argument (that is not religious based) on why they should not be able to get married I would like to hear it. This kind of lead into something else as well though. If they can get married, can they adopt and raise children? Instead of diverting attention from the original question of this poll, I will start another, so come and let us discuss it there.
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  23. #22  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Anyway, I don't see why we have to fit everything into the same mold, marriage is obviously not working for a great many people. Maybe it is time to have a few more options available to better meet the more complex needs of a more diverse population.

    So in the case of homosexual couples I think they need to start their own traditions and contracts that suit the kind of relationship they want and stop trying take a short cut by forcing the rest of society to change our traditions to suit their lifestyle.
    Oh and another thing has a occured to me as well. I am no great advocate of polygamy, but when you think about it, how is the prohibition against polygamy any different than the prohibition against homosexuality. I would, of course, be just as opposed to modifying the definition of marriage to suit polygamy as to suit homosexual couples, but perhaps new traditions and types of contracts can allow people, who actually consent to such unions, a way to pursue their chosen lifestyle without interference from the law. This can be done without actually legalizing polygamy. Now isn't that a cool idea?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Oh and another thing has a occured to me as well. I am no great advocate of polygamy, but when you think about it, how is the prohibition against polygamy any different than the prohibition against homosexuality. I would, of course, be just as opposed to modifying the definition of marriage to suit polygamy as to suit homosexual couples, but perhaps new traditions and types of contracts can allow people, who actually consent to such unions, a way to pursue their chosen lifestyle without interference from the law. This can be done without actually legalizing polygamy. Now isn't that a cool idea?
    That is a good point that you bring up mitchellmckain(that polygamy ties into this as well). The idea of homosexual marriage is a big issue, seeing that it leads to a number of other possibilities. One that just popped up in my head was that if someone loved their dog, cat, rat, ferret, or whatever, should they be able to get married to it? This may seem ridiculous, but I have heard this argument before. This idea of new contracts though is actually kind of appealing to me. But aren't there certain things granted by law to married couples that, if the law is not to interfere with these new contracts, would not be granted? It seems to me that the law would have to get involved.
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  25. #24  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist
    That is a good point that you bring up mitchellmckain(that polygamy ties into this as well). The idea of homosexual marriage is a big issue, seeing that it leads to a number of other possibilities. One that just popped up in my head was that if someone loved their dog, cat, rat, ferret, or whatever, should they be able to get married to it? This may seem ridiculous, but I have heard this argument before. This idea of new contracts though is actually kind of appealing to me. But aren't there certain things granted by law to married couples that, if the law is not to interfere with these new contracts, would not be granted? It seems to me that the law would have to get involved.
    Sorry but the pet thing is not the same at all, for that is not a matter of consenting adults.

    I never even hinted that the law would not be involved. Of course it would be. But there is a difference between involving the law and interference by law enforcement. But the point of these other traditions and contracts is that they must argue for and fight for whatever consideration/consession they will get from law and government on their own merits without the shortcut of hijacking the merit of marriage.
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  26. #25  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    I am sorry for my poor in english.I respect all members here but it is not acceptable to insult MY RELIGION OR QURAAN.
    Although I am tired ,I will never stop.

    Thanks Bilco for calling me mischief maker ..we have to respect any work this is what Islam told us.

    Islam says that any work is worship to ALLAH
    If you don't want your silly superstition criticized or "insulted," don't come here proselytizing and evangelizing it.
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  27. #26  
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    I suspect that if there was some sort of civil union available for gays that would give them the same spousal rights as married men and women with respect to things like health care, inheritance, being the legal next-of-kin, etc. something like 99% of gay men and women would stop complaining about the lack of "gay marriage". They don't care about being officially "married" per se, but rather about being able to give their relationships the same legal utility as a relationship between a married man and woman.
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  28. #27  
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    No objection, so long as the party afterwards does not disturb my sleep.
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  29. #28  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    I suspect that if there was some sort of civil union available for gays that would give them the same spousal rights as married men and women with respect to things like health care, inheritance, being the legal next-of-kin, etc. something like 99% of gay men and women would stop complaining about the lack of "gay marriage". They don't care about being officially "married" per se, but rather about being able to give their relationships the same legal utility as a relationship between a married man and woman.
    Well, I suspect there is still one major issue in this, and that is adoption. As long as the word marriage is not used for the civil union of homosexual couples, adoption agencies can discriminate against homosexual couples without direct reference to homosexuality. They can simply require a married couple. And if we continue to judge a homosexual couple to be unfit for parenthood then how can we ever say that we view homosexuality as anything other than some kind of disease. I mean what would you say about the mother who says she has no prejudice against black people, but that she just doesn't want them to touch her children? So by analogy, what do we say about a society that claims it is not prejudiced against homosexuals, but says they are not fit to raise children.

    So in the spirit of compromise, we would need legislation saying that there can be no distinction made between marriage and the union of a homosexual couple in regards to adoption. Now it is true that this only goes halfway, because it merely forces adoption agencies to specifically state that homosexual couples are not eligible. Ok so you may say, what is the difference then? The difference is that it is a concession that makes a compromise on the issue of marriage more possible. For the homosexual community, it means their battle for equal rights in adoption is at least half won. Furthermore it means that both state law and adoption agencies do have to make a clear decision on this issue and cannot hide their discrimination behind legal euphemisms. Frankly, I think that such things are more important and influential than some people might think, for I do think that some states and adoption agencies just might hesitate to openly discriminate.
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  30. #29 Gay Marriages - The Step-by-Step Decline of Western Civiliza 
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    When humans make laws, it is inevitable that there will be grave flaws and far reaching consequences. Everybody seems to want rights, no matter how diverse or perverse. In the Supreme Court's 2002-2003 term, Lawrence et al v Texas handed down a law that will change the course of America's future: "Gays are entitled respect for their private lives." Based on the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, gays have the right to privacy: "The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime."

    It is thought that in the last hundred years this ruling along with Roe v Wade will have the strongest impact on society. The moral effect of this ruling will probably not be felt for years. It is like opening a can of worms. First the right to privacy, then gay marriages, gay adoption, gays in the military and gays in the work place. It is "said" that six out of ten Americans believe that homosexual sex between consenting adults should be legal.

    Only one of the Justices openly showed disgust for the law. Justice Antonin Scalia read from his bench "taking sides in the culture war" and that the rest of the Justices have "largely signed on to the so called homosexual agenda." But if it is true that six out of ten American's and six out of nine Supreme Justices condone homosexual behavior, then God has forewarned us that we are truly in serious trouble.

    "The people of Lut (Lot) rejected (his) warning. We sent against them a violent Tornado with showers of stones (which destroyed them), except Lut's household: thus do We reward those who give thanks. And (Lut) did warn them of Our Punishment, but they disputed about the Warning." [The Holy Qur'an (Surat al-Qamar 54:33-36)]

    We have been warned that this will truly be the decline of any civilization. From both a Biblical and Jewish standpoint this is truly perversion. Prophet Lut was sent as a messenger to one of Abraham's neighboring communities. These people, as the Qur'an tells us, practiced a perversion unknown to the world until then.

    [MORE]-------->
    http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive...ang=E&id=51533
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  31. #30 The Evil Sin of Homosexuality 
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    We are thankful that Allah has shown us the path to virtue and good deeds, and cautioned us against all vice. The road to Paradise is paved with self-restraint and, the road to Hell with satisfaction of one’s drives and desires. “ The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, was once asked about the deeds which would surely lead one to Paradise. He replied, “Fear of Allah and upright behavior.’ On being asked about the deeds which would lead one to Hell, he said, “Their sayings and their sexual behavior.’” (Tirmithi) the Prophet, salallahu alayhe wa sallam, also said, “ I can guarantee Paradise to whoever can guard his mouth and what is between his legs.” (Bukhari) Allah has prohibited people from committing all sin, whether their behavior becomes exposed to others or not. He has prohibited the violation of the honor and dignity of others and has made these sine lead to great punishment. The way to happiness involves endurance of much patience, hardship, self-restraint and avoidance of sin and vice. On the other hand, it is easy to collapse before temptation and submit to one’s drives, but in the end, it ultimately leads to self –destruction. Indeed, there is no meaning to life without religion and one cannot gain satisfaction without committing to strong principles.

    [MORE]------->
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  32. #31 What Lies Behind the Liberal Laws of “Crazy Holland” 
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    Among the atrocious consequences of the excessive, uncontrolled freedom
    observed by the so-called "civilized" world is homosexuality. Not only clandestinely is it practiced, rather some countries like Holland went to the extreme of legalizing and recognizing it by law. A man, therefore, may marry another man; a woman may similarly marry another woman.

    The Islamic ruling on this affair is clear. It strictly refuses any sexual relationship outside the circle of marriage between man and woman, for it leads to nothing but the destruction of the family and, consequently, the whole society. The Noble Qur'an plainly states that Allah Almighty created the human beings in spouses so as to unite in legal bonds to proliferate and maintain the human race: "And among His Signs is that he created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for people who reflect" [Qur'an / 30:21]

    The following article published by the Newsweek magazine shows the extent of deviance experienced by those who claim civilization.
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  33. #32  
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    theres the neanderthal muslim again What would you prefer to beat and kill them to teach them all a lesson

    You are the most intolerent [deleted] i have ever met

    You find homosexuality discusting but sex with children or animals(as long as you kill them afterwards) is ok
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    In the west we have a saying that is "Don't knock it till you've tried it" I guess that's why I, CC and the others, don't knock the gay community, from your apparent venom, and constant knocking of this community, have you had some form of bad experience you would like to relate to us?.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    In the west we have a saying that is "Don't knock it till you've tried it" I guess that's why I, CC and the others, don't knock the gay community, from your apparent venom, and constant knocking of this community, have you had some form of bad experience you would like to relate to us?.

    i got a sort of mate who's gay, well hes someone who buys corn snake hatchlings from me(I breed snakes) and hes a nice bloke. Not something im into myself but i have nothing against him or anyone else who has that choice thrust upon them

    Theres probably gays at every mosque in the world(statisically there will be), but with fear of death they'll not be open about it


    Grow up prof and live in the modern world you [deleted]
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  36. #35  
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    Caveman I've taken out the insults. Maybe they were provoked, but I don't want to see that on this forum.
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  37. #36 Re: What Lies Behind the Liberal Laws of “Crazy Holland” 
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    Back to the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    Among the atrocious consequences of the excessive, uncontrolled freedom
    observed by the so-called "civilized" world is homosexuality. Not only clandestinely is it practiced, rather some countries like Holland went to the extreme of legalizing and recognizing it by law. A man, therefore, may marry another man; a woman may similarly marry another woman.
    I really don't understand what the problem of homosexuality and gay marriage is. I'm from the Netherlands myself and I often see gay couples, sometimes a gay marriage as well. They're normal people who just try to be happy, how are they harming society?
    Marriage started as a religious custom, but it has gone beyond that. The church doesn't have a monopoly on marriage anymore, which means religious laws can't dictate anymore who marries with whom. I think that's a very positive development. And I think you have to admit that beside religious arguments there's really no practical reason why gay couples can't marry.
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  38. #37 Re: What Lies Behind the Liberal Laws of “Crazy Holland” 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    Back to the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    Among the atrocious consequences of the excessive, uncontrolled freedom
    observed by the so-called "civilized" world is homosexuality. Not only clandestinely is it practiced, rather some countries like Holland went to the extreme of legalizing and recognizing it by law. A man, therefore, may marry another man; a woman may similarly marry another woman.
    I really don't understand what the problem of homosexuality and gay marriage is. I'm from the Netherlands myself and I often see gay couples, sometimes a gay marriage as well. They're normal people who just try to be happy, how are they harming society?
    Marriage started as a religious custom, but it has gone beyond that. The church doesn't have a monopoly on marriage anymore, which means religious laws can't dictate anymore who marries with whom. I think that's a very positive development. And I think you have to admit that beside religious arguments there's really no practical reason why gay couples can't marry.
    That's just it, they aren't. But see..it's different. *GASP!*
    People in society have proven themselves rather hostile to change. this preaching lunitic here is so wrong I decided not to waste my time.

    However the other people that compare homosexuality to child molestation or beastiality need their logic checked. Children and animals can't really choose on the same cognitive level, while bisexuals and homosexuals usually can. Although homosexuals (those 100% gay) tend to have trauma on their side, (and I mean 100% gay-as-all-gay-can-be-flamboyant-stereotype) there is still some cognitive choice. In fact I'm in the process of writing a rather lengthy article about it. I'll post it inevitably.
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  39. #38  
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    EDIt,

    I misread what Jeremy said replied, and realised my error I have deleted the text and apologise if offence was taken.
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  40. #39  
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    uh...reread what I said very carefully.
    One point is that I'm bisexual, another is that I'm an atheist. A third is that I was stating a few defensive points for both very briefly. How, exactly, was that perceived as an offensive post?

    Also, I hate books on homosexuality. Psychology is moronic, the gene hypothesis is utterly rediculas, and everything else tends to be insulting and biased. Hence why I'm writing about it instead.

    EDIT: none taken. Just felt weird to have my comments thought of as offensive. XD
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  41. #40  
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    proof that religion is nothing but bad:
    War
    Suffer
    Missery
    profahmfaw
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    Caveman I've taken out the insults. Maybe they were provoked, but I don't want to see that on this forum.
    ok sorry, just that word was more of a description rather than an insult. the dictionary discribes it as "A big*t is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from their own"

    which is a correct word for this situation, i refrained from common insults or swear words :wink:


    does prof think that homosexuality is greater in the west, there is probably the same amount in all countries, but the west has accepted this and is not barbaric about it

    Just wondered how he saw this as a decline in western civilisation?
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    I'd like to ask the prof why he thinks a book that's 1400 years old ought to tell us how to judge people born today? . I refer particularly to his references to the gay community. In any community evil people are more or less spread evenly throughout it's various groups, which brings me to the conclusion that if it is acceptable for him to brand all gay people as somehow totally evil, then by the same medieval logic one could class all muslims as terrorists. Clearly both statements are absurd.

    I'd also like to ask him if he has ever suffered at the hands of a gay person, whether he personally knows anybody who is gay. Are you really only going by your interpretation of what is written in the Koran?

    I have met and worked with gay people over the years, and found them generally to be less aggressive and far more polite than most. I think prof you should actually meet and talk to someone who is gay and begin to see people for what they really are and not what the Koran tells you to think about them. I'd also like to know why, if they are such evil people why god chose to create such a trait. If you are not happy to actually talk to such a person, perhaps I might recommend a video, a true story about a chap call Quinten Crisp, the name of the film is "The naked civil servant", there is NO nudity in the film despite it's title.
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  44. #43  
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    You wont get your wish, since it's a bot.
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  45. #44  
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    Moderator note: I merged the two topics. I didnt' see why we needed yet another thread on the religious perspective about same-sex marriage.
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  46. #45 Re: What Lies Behind the Liberal Laws of “Crazy Holland” 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    People in society have proven themselves rather hostile to change. this preaching lunitic here is so wrong I decided not to waste my time.
    As much as I would like to defend profahmafaw's right to his point of view, he does not really leave me much freedom to do so, for the same sentiments (freedom of religion and lifestyle) that causes me to respect his right to his way of life must be extended to the homosexual community as well. I frankly see no difference and if I were of a mind to prohibit one then I would prohibit them both. I find both Islam and the gay rights movement equally objectionable and I often compare the two. They both have little regard for religious freedom, advocating a theocracy which forces their beliefs on everyone. Both groups really ought to live and let live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Although homosexuals (those 100% gay) tend to have trauma on their side, (and I mean 100% gay-as-all-gay-can-be-flamboyant-stereotype) there is still some cognitive choice. In fact I'm in the process of writing a rather lengthy article about it. I'll post it inevitably.
    Although I recognize that trauma plays a role in some cases I believe that is personal and has no role in the public view, it is the choice that must be emphasized and respected, and this is in fact the primary source of my beef with the gay rights community. The so called "scientific" studies supporting prenatal determination of "sexual preference", which in my view is the same kind of rhetoric motivated pseudo-science as "Creation science", is largely based on correlations with "gender nonconformity" in childhood. The implications of this are atrocious and incomparably disgusting to me. I condemn the rigidity of traditional gender roles and likewise utterly repudiate any significance to "gender nonconformity" in children.

    Of course any homosexual who chooses to believe that he was born that way is free to believe as he chooses just as anyone is free to believe that he is God, but they have no right to demand that I share their belief. I even think that his religion/belief may even give him a kind of salvation/liberation experience that is quite beneficial to his health and well being, but that still does not mean that I have to share his beliefs. I only need to respect his right to his own beliefs and lifestyle. I should be able to live next door to both Islamic and homosexual families, respecting their right to live as they choose with being called a bigot or homophobe because I do not share their beliefs.

    As for gay marriage, I have made my view clear in other threads. I support the idea of a type of civil union for homosexual couples, which although would not be called marriage, would have the provision that it cannot be distinguished from marriage in regards to adoption.
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  47. #46 Re: What Lies Behind the Liberal Laws of “Crazy Holland” 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    Back to the topic.



    I really don't understand what the problem of homosexuality and gay marriage is. I'm from the Netherlands myself and I often see gay couples, sometimes a gay marriage as well. They're normal people who just try to be happy, how are they harming society?
    Marriage started as a religious custom, but it has gone beyond that. The church doesn't have a monopoly on marriage anymore, which means religious laws can't dictate anymore who marries with whom. I think that's a very positive development. And I think you have to admit that beside religious arguments there's really no practical reason why gay couples can't marry.
    That's just it, they aren't. But see..it's different. *GASP!*
    People in society have proven themselves rather hostile to change. this preaching lunitic here is so wrong I decided not to waste my time.

    However the other people that compare homosexuality to child molestation or beastiality need their logic checked. Children and animals can't really choose on the same cognitive level, while bisexuals and homosexuals usually can. Although homosexuals (those 100% gay) tend to have trauma on their side, (and I mean 100% gay-as-all-gay-can-be-flamboyant-stereotype) there is still some cognitive choice. In fact I'm in the process of writing a rather lengthy article about it. I'll post it inevitably.

    If the child molesting and beastiality comment is from reading my post, youve misread/mis-heard me

    I never compared them to homosexuality, it was just a point that a certain religious group has violent retrubution to homosexuality, but have no problem with under age sex or sex with animals(not including pigs and dogs if i remember rightly)


    it was pointing out the acceptance of one sexual act/acts and violence to a lesser one. There are many cases of beatings and hangings of homosexuals in afghanistan under the taliban, also in iraq.
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    Yes I know. However many people in christiany say it's the same thing as beastiality or child molestation. You reminded me of it, so I said it to add a little something. Although poorly, but whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    ALLAH created sex for Reproduction of human race in the most of all beings.....I , You and all of us came by this operation.

    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ..but we can amuse ourselves without leaving the main purpose with our wives.

    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..this mean that animals are smarter than you.
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids .

    Sorry moderators I mean one man maybe two and I will not say this again.

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    LOL Excuse me mister but I think you should do some research! For one I have read that alot of animals not only indulge in gay sex but actually PREFER it! There is even a species of monkey which has the ability to retract it's penis to make a cavity for another male to penetrate, so what are you talking about? Since you're a religious man, who do you think made these monkeys? LOL How ignorant can YOU be???
    Funny that you also mentioned the fact that God created sex for reproduction...Out of all the people that are actually having sex in the world today how many of these people do you really think are using sex as a means to reproduce??? Not many I assure you. It doesn't matter it's still fornication and comes under lust as do Gay people so there, we're all in the same boat. You say that 2 men having sex would cause the human race to vanish from the face of the earth. Well couldn't the same thing be said to people who use contraception? It's the same no matter how you look at it, so it's wrong to just blame Gay people when straight people are also contributing to what you're talking about.
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by profahmfaw
    ALLAH created sex for Reproduction of human race in the most of all beings.....I , You and all of us came by this operation.
    You don't have any physical evidence for that statement. All you have is a book which someone supposedly wrote and your own faith. The direct opposite of credibility

    Some people use sex just to amuse themselves but it was created for a graet purpose not amuse yourself ..but we can amuse ourselves without leaving the main purpose with our wives.
    It's not so much amusement as pleasure, but whatever.

    the mononsexuality do not give birth and if all people tried to make it this mean that all the human race will vanish from this earth...
    Actually, if the president and other political parties would STOP STICKING THEIR NOSES in certain areas of scientific research, we'd be developed enough as of now to start "making" children in labs (it would be highly costly, and granted I doubt they could "make" the "ingredients" such as sperm, but you get the jist). We can already clone organs and such with varying ability, raising a child in a womb like environment wouldn't have been that far off.

    While homosexuals do not reproduce, you miss the fact that the earth is overpopulated. "overpopulation" does not, contrary to the belief of certain stupid parties, mean the planet can't "fit" more people. It means the resources on this planet can't sustain that many people.

    In all actuality, homosexuals are pretty much doing society a favor by NOT breeding more children into this already heavily-stuffed planet. Whereas heterosexuals (specifically the dumber ones), are breeding like rabbits and slowly but surely destroying the planet with bad parenting, too many children, and not enough intelligence.
    Of course this is a highly summarized part of a very lengthy discussion, but you get the just.

    To the ignorers we do not see such awful thing like this in animals..this mean that animals are smarter than you.
    I feel that many people here ignore every word I write...they have small brains talk ,talk and talk ..I am really feeling tired from this stupids.
    ...Hee....I wonder if he means me, since I'm the one continually proving him incorrect with the massive amounts of time I can waste on writing these replies!

    Anyway, as the previous poster stated, many animals engage in homosexual behavior because it feels good. It doesn't generally have to be a hormone effect, but the pleasure aspects of it are still there. Many people use this to justify the "it's genetic" approach, but in reality it's more of a "psychological" factor. After all, if you're an animal without a society to tell you it's "wrong," and it feels good, you'd be doing it. Which animals do.

    WE MUST NOT FORGET THE PEOPLE WHO GOT A GREAT PINISHMENT FOR THIS AWFUL HABIT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.
    Thousands of years ago, you would have had your ears, nose, fingers, etc, cut off for blasphemy. Aren't you glad those laws aren't around anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Funny that you also mentioned the fact that God created sex for reproduction...Out of all the people that are actually having sex in the world today how many of these people do you really think are using sex as a means to reproduce??? Not many I assure you.
    Quick thing: The majority that are tend to be stupid. Hence why there are so many illiterate people out in the world now days. Specifically, those that over punctuate and use net speak.
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    Was that a dig at me?

    Hmmmm....Yes I'm using net lingo.....but perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I'm ON the net! What's ur point? Did it harm u in ne way? Did I not get my point across?

    I am not illiterate, even if I was who are you to judge me on the way I type? Are you crazy...Is that what makes a good/decent person? Is that what you base your judgement on, the way people type and speak? lol That say's a hell of a lot about you my friend.

    I just don't get it. So what you're trying to say is that if I use "?????" as opposed to "?" that makes me stupid? If that's how you think then I think you should reconsider your own level of intelligence.

    You're just as ignorant and arrogant as this muslim man on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Was that a dig at me?

    Hmmmm....Yes I'm using net lingo.....but perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I'm ON the net! What's ur point? Did it harm u in ne way? Did I not get my point across?

    I am not illiterate, even if I was who are you to judge me on the way I type? Are you crazy...Is that what makes a good/decent person? Is that what you base your judgement on, the way people type and speak? lol That say's a hell of a lot about you my friend.

    I just don't get it. So what you're trying to say is that if I use "?????" as opposed to "?" that makes me stupid? If that's how you think then I think you should reconsider your own level of intelligence.

    You're just as ignorant and arrogant as this muslim man on here.
    Now, see, it pains me when people go out of their way...just to prove my point.
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  53. #52  
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    I have followed this topic for some time and have refrained from posting because I just did not know what I wanted to say.

    Society changes such that practices which were at one time completely acceptable become inappropriate while other practices which were at one time unspeakable have become acceptable.

    The act of abortion comes to mind as one which has become acceptable in some circles while using pejorative terms to refer to another’s race, ethnicity, nationality or sexual orientation have become inappropriate.

    I tend to agree with those who have posted to the effect that some legal arrangement can be developed to extend the legal rights and responsibilities of bi-sexual marriage to same-sex marriage, but without calling it marriage. I mean why should bi-sexuals be the only people who have to go through divorce?

    Calling this union marriage, to me, would be tantamount to calling the sexual activity of homosexuals an act of mating.

    For the most part, it would appear to me that the aversion to homosexuality (including lesbianism) is a direct result of Biblical admonitions against such practices. (Other religions may also express a similar aversion to the practice, but probably have a different kind of standard.)

    Whether this Biblical aversion is purely a moral issue or if it is a practical issue, I do not know.

    Whatever.

    I am a child of the 40’s and 50’s when prejudice and bigotry were much the norm and those values have been difficult to overcome. The pejorative terms I learned as a youth continue to sometimes enter a conversation in some circles, though being prohibited in the conversations of others circles.

    At this point, I think I am willing to just allow God to sort this stuff out in the long run. If there is no God, these people have nothing to worry about. But if there is a God and it is the God Yahweh . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Was that a dig at me?

    Hmmmm....Yes I'm using net lingo.....but perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I'm ON the net! What's ur point? Did it harm u in ne way? Did I not get my point across?

    I am not illiterate, even if I was who are you to judge me on the way I type? Are you crazy...Is that what makes a good/decent person? Is that what you base your judgement on, the way people type and speak? lol That say's a hell of a lot about you my friend.

    I just don't get it. So what you're trying to say is that if I use "?????" as opposed to "?" that makes me stupid? If that's how you think then I think you should reconsider your own level of intelligence.

    You're just as ignorant and arrogant as this muslim man on here.
    Now, see, it pains me when people go out of their way...just to prove my point.
    LMAO Ur too funny...

    In reality, by thinking that I proved you right, you infact did the opposite and proved me right.

    Anyways I haven't the time nor the effort to start arguing over pathetic and petty thing's so you keep telling yourself that and I hope that your literary skill's get you far in this and any other forum that you are posting at.
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  55. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by gelanti1982
    Was that a dig at me?

    Hmmmm....Yes I'm using net lingo.....but perhaps that has something to do with the fact that I'm ON the net! What's ur point? Did it harm u in ne way? Did I not get my point across?

    I am not illiterate, even if I was who are you to judge me on the way I type? Are you crazy...Is that what makes a good/decent person? Is that what you base your judgement on, the way people type and speak? lol That say's a hell of a lot about you my friend.

    I just don't get it. So what you're trying to say is that if I use "?????" as opposed to "?" that makes me stupid? If that's how you think then I think you should reconsider your own level of intelligence.

    You're just as ignorant and arrogant as this muslim man on here.
    Now, see, it pains me when people go out of their way...just to prove my point.
    LMAO Ur too funny...

    In reality, by thinking that I proved you right, you infact did the opposite and proved me right.

    Anyways I haven't the time nor the effort to start arguing over pathetic and petty thing's so you keep telling yourself that and I hope that your literary skill's get you far in this and any other forum that you are posting at.
    ....oh...my...god...do continue, jester. For your comedic routine is entertaining.
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  56. #55  
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    What bothers me is that Jeremy Pfft gets away with those kinds of comments, but when people respond in kind, he goes and cries to Mr. U. who comes on and chastices the other person.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

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  57. #56  
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    Maybe they swing together...?
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  58. #57  
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    THe moderators are secretly trying to take over the forum, Mr U will not realise this until it's too late, that's a consequence of living in holland where it's legal to smoke things other than tobacco and herrings....
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  59. #58 Re: Homosexuality and Gay Marriages - Religious View 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzo
    What do people on here have to say about gay marriages from a religious perspective if you are part of any that is..? This is open to all faiths realizing that most do believe it to be a sinful act..

    Being Roman Catholic, it's a straight up NO.
    ....

    Well what are thoughts? If this thread has been made before, someone can go ahead and lock it :P
    Many people already know my point of view but since it has been brought up again I shall state my position once more for the record. I believe in religious freedom more strongly than I am confident of my own religous beliefs and therefore I take a moderate postion aimed both at compromise and at preserving religious freedom above all things. Therefore I advocate the protection of people from having forced upon them the religious belief that homosexuality is a sin. But likewise I advocate the protection of people from having forced upon them the religious-like belief that homosexuality is a condition of birth. We can live in a multi-cultural and multi-religious society if we respect the beliefs of others and ban "religious" discussion where it is disruptive to the purpose of the location, such as in the workplace.

    Marriage has always been a tradition involving the union of man and woman, largely for the purpose of giving birth to and raising children. This basic assumption permeates our customs, laws and literature. Therefore, I feel it is unfair to hijack this tradition and redefine the words "marry" and "marriage" to suit the purpose and lifestyle of a minority. However the freedom of religion should also guarantee the right to establish ones own traditions and receive the legal recognitions that are appropriate. Therefore there is no reason to oppose a civil union for homosexual couples. Does this legitimize them? You betcha! News flash! They have a right, the same as you, to their own beliefs and lifestyle as long as it does not infringe upon the same right of others.

    There is however a final issue of adoption which I believe is a seperate issue to be argued on its own merits and therefore I do not believe that states and adoption agencies can passively discriminate against the adoption by homosexual couples simply by requiring married couples. Therefore, I think the law should prohibit the distinction between marriage and this homosexual union in all laws and policies regarding adoption. In other words, states and adoption agencies must explicitly prohibit homosexual couples from adoption if they choose to do so. I personally have no problem with adoption by homosexual couples but I have heard reservations regarding this even from people who fanatically defend the cause of gay rights (calling me a homophobe).

    I am strongly in favor of compromise on this issue, for I think the refusal to compromise on this is tearing the United States apart. But it must be a true compromise which recognizes the rights of everone to their beliefs and way of life. I fear that the conflict has become like a war ruled by fear where many people will not accept even reasonable and just legislation for fear of giving the other side any political gains.

    As for the Catholic stance on homosexuality, what can you expect from a group that endeavors to keep many countries in the dark ages with their ecologically insane opposition to birth control.
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  60. #59  
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    My view

    Homosexuality is something that occurs in nature (animals) and individuals are born this way be it though genetic cause or hormonal/immune response reaction during the development of the fetus. Its likely that there's also a spectrum between total heterosexuality and total homosexuality where various individuals fit in various places with those being near the middle considering themselves bisexual.

    Either behavior can also be thought by society particularily in humans and emulated by individuals even if it goes against their inner preference. Typically societies have enforced heterosexual behavior.

    It is interesting to note that theoretically and ironically there could very well be more instances of homosexual individuals in societies that enforce heterosexuality and repress homosexuality like our good friend the Allah guy than in Nature and animals where homosexual individuals are not likely to procreate. So there's a definite chance that humans could have more chances of being homosexual on average than aminals because of anti-gay taboos.

    I've been puzzled as to why homosexuality even exist in animals, but when you consider that some animals take on their gender by external conditions such as temperature and that biochemicals can alter development of insects, and also factor in that diversity that includes chances for non-survival-in-current-environment is actually a winning trait when facing changing situation, homosexuality then makes sense.

    For practical purposes I do approve the archaic ritual of Marriage to apply to gays, Gay Marriage. But to me this makes no sense at all, it would be like making it legal to have your car drawn by a horse or cattle to emulate the old wagons, and to have people want to do this so much that they actively fight for that right is so very odd. If they can why shouldnt I? I guess is the rationale. And there's the re-defenition of a word, forcing eveyone else to redefine a word they use to fit your needs, not a big deal, the meaning of words change overtime but its seldom de-facto changed by legislation, again a bit odd (I guess a Gayriage with equal rights and benefits as Marriage is not good enough cause it sets them appart).

    So to sum it up, theres no point in enacting anti-gay rules like allah this and that, discrimination is bad, and although I have minor reservations about Gay Marriage for practical purposes I'm for it.

    Oh and Gay Pride parades are also quite odd to me, I'm not offended but find it bizare you would be 'proud' of a sexual preference to begin with since its inate trait not an acheivement, and to be so proud you have to make a parade out of it? I enjoy an hetero blow job as much as anyone but I would not participate in an hetero blow job parade except maybe once for the hell of it and would certainly not go through the trouble of actually organizing a parade. So you gay straight whatever, so what? And theres gay games or gay olympics now? Sheesh. Anyway to each his own, live and let live. :wink:

    Oh and a final unrealted thing I find interesting, consider the possibility that women may actually have breasts because men like it. (few other mamals have breasts so developped while not pregnant, it could be sexual dismorphism/distinctiveness through mate selection over the centuries :wink: )
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  61. #60  
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    However the other people that compare homosexuality to child molestation or beastiality need their logic checked.
    I'm not sure how this came about but I will compare it, although there is an important nuance between
    homosexual act, child molestation, beastial act which are the acts themselves which people actually choose to do or not to do

    ...and homosexual, pedofile, beastiofile(just invented this word) which are the inate attraction/thoughts/feelings which cannot be controled and is different from acting them out. The same way someone imagining stealing a car in his mind if he has criminal fantasies is one thing, but if crosses the line and commits a criminal act if by going out and stealing a car is something else.

    The legality or illegality of all three of these behaviors probably have a cultural aspect, although it makes sense to make child molesting and the act of beastiality illegal. (of course homosexuality between adults is concentual which is not the case with the other two behaviors)


    As for Adoption, my personal opinion is that an homosexual couple should have a few points less than an heterosexual couple in a selection grid for adoption but that it should not be a deciding or central criteria (unless everything else is the same).
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  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    I've been puzzled as to why homosexuality even exist in animals, but when you consider that some animals take on their gender by external conditions such as temperature and that biochemicals can alter development of insects, and also factor in that diversity that includes chances for non-survival-in-current-environment is actually a winning trait when facing changing situation, homosexuality then makes sense.
    Good point! In fact, isn't there some amphibians which can switch genders under the right conditions. For me this flexibility implies that in the case of human being, where so much of our behavior is purely learned, sexual preference is also probably learned (i.e. a matter of psychology, choice and habit).

    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    Oh and Gay Pride parades are also quite odd to me, I'm not offended but find it bizare you would be 'proud' of a sexual preference to begin with since its inate trait not an acheivement, and to be so proud you have to make a parade out of it? I enjoy an hetero blow job as much as anyone but I would not participate in an hetero blow job parade except maybe once for the hell of it and would certainly not go through the trouble of actually organizing a parade. So you gay straight whatever, so what? And theres gay games or gay olympics now? Sheesh. Anyway to each his own, live and let live. :wink:
    Amen to that! People are always saying, "why do people get so uptight about what consenting adults do behind closed doors." What a red herring that is! Since it is not the behavior behind closed doors that people are uptight about. As for me, let them have their blow job parades if they feel it neccessary to their own happiness, as long as religious people have the same right to flaunt their ideosyncracies as well, and as long as neither are able to dictate what the rest of us must believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    Oh and a final unrealted thing I find interesting, consider the possibility that women may actually have breasts because men like it. (few other mamals have breasts so developped while not pregnant, it could be sexual dismorphism/distinctiveness through mate selection over the centuries :wink: )
    Actually this is not a universal human characteristic! Despite the distorted view of humanity in the media, the majority of women in the world are in fact approximately flat chested until pregnacy when their breast do indeed inflate. There are many decided advantages including a more certain and easier early warning of the onset of pregnancy.

    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    The legality or illegality of all three of these behaviors probably have a cultural aspect, although it makes sense to make child molesting and the act of beastiality illegal. (of course homosexuality between adults is concentual which is not the case with the other two behaviors)
    I have often compared rape to cannabalism, since one person is satisfying his own needs/desires at the expense of another. But since we eat animals anyway......

    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    As for Adoption, my personal opinion is that an homosexual couple should have a few points less than an heterosexual couple in a selection grid for adoption but that it should not be a deciding or central criteria (unless everything else is the same).
    Yes indeed. It is the universal prohibition which I object to as well. Just about any aspect of a prospective parent's life including career can be a reason to consider a specific adoption inappropriate. This is a decision that needs to be made on a case by case basis by those people who are actually involved. The primary objection seems to be some concern about what other people think, possible persecution, or the normality of having both mother and father. But this same type of argument is used to justify every other sort of intolerance and prejudice so it just doesn't wash with me. It is the bonding between parent and child which trumps all other concerns in this question and is precious beyond words. With proper parental support a child can stand against incredible odds, but without this support they often crumble despite whatever advantages they might have.
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  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Good point! In fact, isn't there some amphibians which can switch genders under the right conditions. For me this flexibility implies that in the case of human being, where so much of our behavior is purely learned, sexual preference is also probably learned (i.e. a matter of psychology, choice and habit).
    Amphibiians can also regrow lost limbs and tails. Can you do that? This comparison is flawed because you are a) comparing behaviour with morphology, b) comparing amphibians with mammals.
    There is a wealth of information and research confirming that sexual oriaentation is not a choice. You persist in ignoring the data because they conflict with your world view. Tough. Why not use 2007 and to deal with that distorted perspective.
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    There is no where in the bible where it says christians can have sex or marry someone of the same sex.

    However we are given guidelines as to what gods wants from us.

    “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)

    "In reply he said: “Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh" [Matthew 19:4,5]

    “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”— Leviticus 18:22.

    So a man and women over the age of consent is the only correct take on marriage. Sadly there are reasons for homosexuality they are founded in childhood, and are personal.

    With gods holy spirit a homosexual can turn away and please god.
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  65. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    There is no where in the bible where it says christians can have sex or marry someone of the same sex.

    However we are given guidelines as to what gods wants from us.

    “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)

    "In reply he said: “Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh" [Matthew 19:4,5]

    “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”— Leviticus 18:22.

    So a man and women over the age of consent is the only correct take on marriage. Sadly there are reasons for homosexuality they are founded in childhood, and are personal.

    With gods holy spirit a homosexual can turn away and please god.
    There is a famous blunder the bible makes. It excludes lesbians (women lying down with women as they do men). Explain that away, please.
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  66. #65  
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    why is it that religious people are so backwards with these things? Homosexuality is not something learnt it is a inbuilt desire, the same as people who are said to be born into the wrong body, requiring a sex change.

    Have you never seen a homosexual battle between how he/she feels and what society tells them is right

    I could expect it from someone like jw's as they believes peoples emotions and personalities are flowing through their blood but some on here are quite shocking

    Weather im for or against it is not an issue, but to say its learnt is downright wrong
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  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    why is it that religious people are so backwards with these things? Homosexuality is not something learnt it is a inbuilt desire, the same as people who are said to be born into the wrong body, requiring a sex change.

    Have you never seen a homosexual battle between how he/she feels and what society tells them is right

    I could expect it from someone like truth as he believes peoples emotions and personalities are flowing through their blood but some one here are quite shocking

    Weather im for or against it is not an issue, but to say its learnt is downright just stupid
    You do know, caveman, that you are wrong. Sexually abused children tend to grow with a subconscious (or conscious) fear of the opposite sex, or few affection with the same sex (depending on which abused them and how). I thought i explained this in a different thread...
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  68. #67  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    why is it that religious people are so backwards with these things? Homosexuality is not something learnt it is a inbuilt desire, the same as people who are said to be born into the wrong body, requiring a sex change.

    Have you never seen a homosexual battle between how he/she feels and what society tells them is right

    I could expect it from someone like truth as he believes peoples emotions and personalities are flowing through their blood but some one here are quite shocking

    Weather im for or against it is not an issue, but to say its learnt is downright just stupid
    You do know, caveman, that you are wrong. Sexually abused children tend to grow with a subconscious (or conscious) fear of the opposite sex, or few affection with the same sex (depending on which abused them and how). I thought i explained this in a different thread...

    but the majority of homosexuals were not necesseraly abused as kids, neither did they all come from single parent familys and all the other stereotypical views


    does anyone on here actually know any homosexuals?
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    Caveman there, as ive mentioned, are reasons for homosexuality and other terrible forms of personal dissorders. They are from childhood and are usually the result of parental abuse.

    A sad but real truth that we are all aware of.

    Lesbians are the same as men that lie with men. Same sex couples.
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  70. #69  
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    Lesbians are the same as men that lie with men. Same sex couples

    thanks for that


    My question still remains, does anyone on here actually know any homosexuals as friends, work colleagues etc?
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    I used to work with 2 homosexual men. I was friends with a lesbian girl at college. She now has a boyfriend, but was a lesbian at college.

    Gays are the same as anyone who isnt a jehovahs witness. They are no worse and we wouldnt ignore them or insult them.
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  72. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I used to work with 2 homosexual men. I was friends with a lesbian girl at college. She now has a boyfriend, but was a lesbian at college.

    Gays are the same as anyone who isnt a jehovahs witness. They are no worse and we wouldnt ignore them or insult them.

    no my point is i know at least 20-30 from a mutual friend who i speak to regularly and as the only straight guy there i ask the questions. All that i have spoken to have never said the reason they were gay was abuse. but purely from an early age(pre-pubescent) they just felt attracted to the same sex. some even said they hated being gay and wish they weren't


    Gays are the same as anyone who isnt a jehovahs witness

    This is a very dangerous quote are you saying there are no gay jw's? do you know every hjw or are you summising?
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    I voted yes because it's none of my business. I don't know any gay people(and even if I did) if they got married it wouldn't change my life at all. What's wrong with them getting married, if you believe marriage is a union between man and woman who cares if they don't? You have one idea of marriage and they have another.

    And when marriage is considered as a religious ceremony I don't think the government should be able to say anything about that because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.
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    If you are gay then you are leading a double life. In reality you may outwardly be a jehovahs witness. But inside to god you would not be a jehovahs witness.

    Caeman wrote...
    All that i have spoken to have never said the reason they were gay was abuse.
    Im not going to comment on that. It is personal for all people and between each of us and god.
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  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    There is a wealth of information and research confirming that sexual oriaentation is not a choice. You persist in ignoring the data because they conflict with your world view. Tough. Why not use 2007 and to deal with that distorted perspective.
    I think it should be obvious by now that fresh insults are not going to succeed in forcing your opinion on me.

    So what about the adoption issue, huh? When are you going to give up your prejudices?

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    but the majority of homosexuals were not necesseraly abused as kids, neither did they all come from single parent familys and all the other stereotypical views
    Agreed, but that was not Jeremy's point. The point was that psychology does play a role. And let me add that as much as people like to beleive that their habits are set in stone and they have no choice in what they do, that does not neccessarily make it so. The point is that I think that we can make our own choices and I think it is perfectly abomnable to teach children displaying gender non-conformity that they have no choice OR visa versa for that matter, teaching children with no gender non-conformity that they have no choice either is abomnable as well.

    I would say, "when you grow up you will have an opportunity to participate in a relationship of love, and whether you participate will be entirely your choice and no one elses."

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    My question still remains, does anyone on here actually know any homosexuals as friends, work colleagues etc?

    i know at least 20-30 from a mutual friend who i speak to regularly and as the only straight guy there i ask the questions. All that i have spoken to have never said the reason they were gay was abuse.
    My father was a social worker and encountered those related to sexual abuse quite often. On my mother's side we had a member of the family who was a respected poet, who always visited at Christmas, but who has now passed away. Even if we know them that does not mean we have discussed what they think about all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    but purely from an early age(pre-pubescent) they just felt attracted to the same sex. some even said they hated being gay and wish they weren't
    So? Sometimes I wish I were not attracted to women, or coffee, or chocolate. There were times I wished that I had not chosen to study physics. I don't think that proves anything.
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  76. #75  
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    No but saying that homosexuality is a choice has never been proven to be correct.

    Sorry but i see that kinda comment on a level with racism and sexism. Just my opinion
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  77. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    No but saying that homosexuality is a choice has never been proven to be correct.

    Sorry but i see that kinda of comment on a level with racism and sexism. Just my opinion
    And I equate your attitude with bigotry in the form of an intolerance of people with differences of opinion, including religious bigotry.

    I agree that nothing is proven. So why not live and let live, with each to his own opinion.
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  78. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    No but saying that homosexuality is a choice has never been proven to be correct.

    Sorry but i see that kinda of comment on a level with racism and sexism. Just my opinion
    And I equate your attitude with bigotry in the form of an intolerance of people with differences of opinion, including religious bigotry.

    Thats a fair comment, i Haven't got an intolerance of peoples different opinions to a point. your statement could have been used by fascists or racists to defend their views. Im not arguing that people have to accept that homosexuality is right or wrong. Im arguing the point of using outdated stereotypes to say that homosexuals have a choice

    Religion is a choice where-as sexual choice, race and sex is not. Therefore i believe that theology is a subject to be argued along with politics.
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  79. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Lesbians are the same as men that lie with men. Same sex couples.
    Let me offer this highly suggestive and obvious question:

    Do you say that, or does the bible say that? Obviously the bible doesn't. or you would have cited a scripture that speaks out against lesbians. :?
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Thats a fair comment, i Haven't got an intolerance of peoples different opinions to a point. your statement could have been used by fascists or racists to defend their views. Im not arguing that people have to accept that homosexuality is right or wrong. Im arguing the point of using outdated stereotypes to say that homosexuals have a choice

    Religion is a choice where-as sexual choice, race and sex is not. Therefore i believe that theology is a subject to be argued along with politics.
    Your comparison of people with a different opinion to facism and racism is on par with the comparison of homosexuality to child molesting.

    I make no opposition to the rights of homosexuals to live their lives in peace. I even stand up for their rights to adoption. I simply stand up for my own right to my beliefs without gay rights fanatics trying to shove their doctrines down my throat. I can respect the right of people to make whatever choice of lifestyle they choose and even rejoice in the diversity of mankind as great and beautiful. But they can take their efforts to force their beliefs on me and shove it.

    Hey! Live and let live. Give it a try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Thats a fair comment, i Haven't got an intolerance of peoples different opinions to a point. your statement could have been used by fascists or racists to defend their views. Im not arguing that people have to accept that homosexuality is right or wrong. Im arguing the point of using outdated stereotypes to say that homosexuals have a choice

    Religion is a choice where-as sexual choice, race and sex is not. Therefore i believe that theology is a subject to be argued along with politics.
    Your comparison of people with a different opinion to facism and racism is on par with the comparison of homosexuality with child molesting.

    I make no opposition to the rights of homosexuals to live their lives in peace. I even stand up for their rights to adoption. I simply stand up for my own right to my beliefs without gay rights fanatics trying to shove their doctrines down my throat. I can respect the right of people to make whatever choice of lifestyle they choose and even rejoice in the diversity of mankind as great and beautiful. But they can take their efforts to force their beliefs on me and shove it.

    Hey! Live and let live. Give it a try.

    My point was that homosexuality has nothing to do with child molesting. whats wrong with that? I believe its beyond their choice

    Im a great believer in live and let live. I just dont like people making statements like "they choose to be gay" thats just not scientifically correct
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    Guys, I feel this may go off topic (although my suspicions may be wrong). I advise starting a thread regarding the debate of genetics vs. psychology, rather than duking it out in a thread centered more around the religious view of gay marriage.

    A moderator can only do so much when it comes to off topic content. :?
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    Jeremy are you wanting me to explain to you homosexuality?

    "Homosexuality refers to sexual and romantic attraction between individuals of the same sex. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

    The bible forbids same sex relationships. There fore same sex relationships are against the bible. Man to man or women to women.

    Its hard to be any clearer.
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    No, the bible never says "same sex," the bible and scriptures you mentioned are quite clear about MALES having sex, but not females. Yet you still provide no scriptures against my claim.

    Quit using straw man arguments. I never have questioned the definition of same-sex relationships. Only the bibles lack of opposition to lesbians.
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    So if the bible forbids man and man having sex would it acceopt that women and women having sex is fine?

    When the bible states no man should kill, it doesnt just mean men, it means women shouldnt kill either.

    Wo-man came from man. As in mankind. Mankind isnt just men its all of mankind , women too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    So if the bible forbids man and man having sex would it acceopt that women and women having sex is fine?

    When the bible states no man should kill, it doesnt just mean men, it means women shouldnt kill either.
    So when the bible condones rape, murder, invasions, plundering, etc, it's not contradicting itself?

    You have just basically admitted indirectly that lesbians are not mentioned in the bible. If I am wrong in that assumption, then by all means point out where they are.

    So far all I see is *YOU* saying that, not the bible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Your comparison of people with a different opinion to facism and racism is on par with the comparison of homosexuality with child molesting.

    I make no opposition to the rights of homosexuals to live their lives in peace. I even stand up for their rights to adoption. I simply stand up for my own right to my beliefs without gay rights fanatics trying to shove their doctrines down my throat. I can respect the right of people to make whatever choice of lifestyle they choose and even rejoice in the diversity of mankind as great and beautiful. But they can take their efforts to force their beliefs on me and shove it.

    Hey! Live and let live. Give it a try.

    My point was that homosexuality has nothing to do with child molesting. whats wrong with that? I believe its beyond their choice
    But how do you translate choice to an equivalence between homosexuality and child molesting??????

    Let us clear things up a bit ok.

    I don't believe that homosexuality it determined at birth or before and I am appalled at the child rearing implications of this doctrine when backed up by all these so called scientific studies based on gender non-conformity in children. I believe in teaching children that they have the freedom of self-determination, for whatever reasons, that are their own business and no one elses.

    The distinction between homosexuality and child molesting is based on two things. First is mature consent and the second is scientific evidence of harm. On the weight of these two considerations child molesting is a crime and homosexuality is a lifestyle, which should be protected under the freedom of religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Im a great believer in live and let live. I just dont like people making statements like "they choose to be gay" thats just not scientifically correct
    No matter how much you don't like it, this is a matter of opinion. And that is something you are just going to have to live with.
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    How come all abused children do not become homosexual?

    I believe that it is not a choice, the same with transexuals. It is from nature and birth, similarly with animals too


    But that brings us back full circle again :wink:

    Back to an agree to disagree situation :-D
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    Jeremy wrote...

    So when the bible condones rape, murder, invasions, plundering, etc, it's not contradicting itself?
    Id like to see these scriptures please. The bible does not condone these things. Very poor anti bible arguement. The barrel is being scraped.

    I have mentioned im not going into the abuse and homosexual link. We all know certain truths.
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    Truth, you ignored the rest of my post. I will post it again:


    You have just basically admitted indirectly that lesbians are not mentioned in the bible. If I am wrong in that assumption, then by all means point out where they are.

    So far all I see is *YOU* saying that, not the bible.

    If you do not reply to the whole thing, I will not provide scriptures.
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    Do you understand that when the bible says a man must not do something then a women must not do something.

    Mankind is one when it comes to gods laws. The bible doesnt say lesbianism is ok. If the bible states sex is between man and women of consenting age, then thats what the bible wants.

    If you think lesbianism is ok then show me a scripture to support this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Do you understand that when the bible says a man must not do something then a women must not do something.
    Where does it say that?

    If you think lesbianism is ok then show me a scripture to support this.
    Why should I?
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    1. Because it says we should all follow gods laws. Yet it doesnt say women are able to not obey gods laws.

    If women were dont you think hed have mentioned such an important part of law?

    2. Because its your opinion and its best to support your opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    1. Because it says we should all follow gods laws. Yet it doesnt say women are able to not obey gods laws.
    Gods laws rarely include women. They are included in generalized laws, and specfic laws, but not in specific laws that don't include their gender.

    Women do obey gods laws. Lesbians aren't against those laws apparently.

    as for my opinion, you have yet to support yours. Furthermore, my "opinion" is based on the LACK of evidence in the bible. Why the hell would I use the bible to prove the lack of evidence in it? That's a logical impossibility.
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    jeremy wrote...

    Women do obey gods laws. Lesbians aren't against those laws apparently.
    Why would women obey laws that are for mankind or men?

    They obey these laws because women are part of mankind as are men. Therefore lebians are included in that law.Men lieing with men is described as "disgusting." Therefore the act of homosexuality is being described as disgusting.

    Homosexuality is forbidden in the bible. As christians we should follow only the bible.
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  96. #95  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    They obey these laws because women are part of mankind as are men.
    You are one shrewed man. You basically added what isn't there. I'll show you what is, and isn't in that bible scripture:

    The bible quote does not say mankind.
    It does not say women
    it does not say "homosexuality"
    It does not say "lesbian"
    It DOES say "men should not lie with men as they do women"

    Not women.
    Not mankind.
    Men.
    Not female.
    Male.

    Therefore lebians are included in that law.Men lieing with men is described as "disgusting." Therefore the act of homosexuality is being described as disgusting.
    Therefore, lesbians are not included in the law, since it refers directly to men. You are doing exactly what you say satan worshipers do, they don't follow what the bible says, they follow what they THINK.

    Well, brother, you just did so.
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    Because there is no use of the word lesbianism you have got yourself stuck in some personal warfare. This shows the character of you.

    Ok so as the bible doesnt say suicide bombing is wrong does that according to your view mean suicide bombing is fine?

    Men lieing with men is homoseuality. When women lie with women it again is homosexality.

    The result is the same, as the result of a suicide bomber is to kill.
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  98. #97  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Because there is no use of the word lesbianism you have got yourself stuck in some personal warfare. This shows the character of you.
    Umm..what?

    Ok so as the bible doesnt say suicide bombing is wrong does that according to your view mean suicide bombing is fine?
    That is a bad comparison. As it's under the "thou shalt not kill" clause. However, I do not see a lesbian or "any type of same-sex" clause. Only "men shall not lie with men".

    Men lieing with men is homoseuality. When women lie with women it again is homosexality.
    ...and? the bible says man lying with man. Not women lying with women. Neither does it say homosexuality. You are ADDING to the bible. :?

    The result is the same, as the result of a suicide bomber is to kill.
    No it isn't. the bible is clear about killing (although it contradicts itself when god says "okay, kill this group", but that's off topic), but says nothing about women lying with women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Because there is no use of the word lesbianism you have got yourself stuck in some personal warfare. This shows the character of you.

    Ok so as the bible doesnt say suicide bombing is wrong does that according to your view mean suicide bombing is fine?

    Men lieing with men is homoseuality. When women lie with women it again is homosexality.

    The result is the same, as the result of a suicide bomber is to kill.
    You're taking the broad category of killing and then comparing it to the specific act of a man lying with a man. It tells you to not kill, kill is the overall topic that suicide bombing falls under.

    Homosexuality is the overall topic that man/man and woman/woman falls under, but the bible never says homosexuality, it lists specifically man and man.
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    Do you have evidence that a name or term for homosexuality was in common use during the bible times?

    Man sleeping with man is homosexuality, it can be nothing else.
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  101. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Do you have evidence that a name or term for homosexuality was in common use during the bible times?

    Man sleeping with man is homosexuality, it can be nothing else.
    The proper terminology for a guy sleeping with a guy is NOT homosexual: it's called GAY.
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