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Thread: Misconceptions made by (some, and not necessarily most) Atheists

  1. #301  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Alright, here's the thing. I didn't come to this forum to discuss religion to begin with. I certainly didn't come here to be talked down to.

    I don't know why you've chosen to be so combative and childish, but I'm done putting up with you. I have a very long fuse and even temper, but you're testing it and I don't want to get banned for blowing up on you. Bottom line is that we don't agree, be it on the subject at hand or the definition of simple words. You can split hairs and gripe about religion all you want. I'm not going to be dragged down to your level.

    I know you're not interested in suggestions from me, but here is one anyways; if you have a personal issue, find a way to work it out with yourself. You're clearly very angry about this topic and you're making yourself look like the people you claim to dislike.

    I'm going to bow out of this one. I have no desire to make enemies of other forum-goers and this is where it's going. Best of luck to you.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  2. #302  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I certainly didn't come here to be talked down to.
    It's not talking down to a person to tell them about the behavior they've engaged in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    You're clearly very angry about this topic
    No, I got angry at you for repeatedly putting words in my mouth. You also appear very angry about this.
     

  3. #303  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    No excuse, at all for your deceptive tactics.
    I don't think Flick is deliberately being deceptive here. I have never seen him using that tactic and I think he has more than demonstrated his integrity on this forum. I think you guys are simply talking past each other. Just be a bit more patient, both of you please.
    Sidenote: Flick is one of the members I respect most on the board. His own demeanor defused quite a bit of my frustration, already, but part of the cause of that frustration is in seeing him not engage in this kind of behavior elsewhere before.

    Although it may raise some questions about how I talk to people I don't like...

    At least I'm not one for favoritism.
    Then please consider that you might be mistaken in your assessment of his behaviour here now and are reacting disproportionately to the situation. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He clearly deserves as much by your own admission.

    Edit: Oh, he has decided to bow out. That is a crying shame.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  4. #304  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Then please consider that you might be mistaken in your assessment of his behaviour here now and are reacting disproportionately to the situation. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He clearly deserves as much by your own admission.
    My admission was only that he has respect from other topics.

    I also have pointed out clearly times he's added words and meanings and intentions I've not said and also pointed out that since it is all there in writing, it makes it difficult to excuse. Posters he's done this to are myself, Dywyddyr, Pavlos and Seagyspy.

    The only question would be was it deliberate; I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was not consciously done.
     

  5. #305  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Fine, if he misinterpreted posts, see him straight. My feeling is that you were being too combative about it and he didn't deserve that. It is too late now anyway, but hopefully this might inform how you react in the future.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boing3000 View Post
    This post is so funny, that you'd deserves a like. But the truth is it is more sad then funny. To see someone so awkward at making sense.
    Ah, quit lying. I made perfect sense. You... on the other hand... Oh- and I see you "liked" flick's post, even though he's totally in disagreement with much of what you say!
    What lie again ?
    I may like Flick post even if he disagree with some of my statement. I like some of his post because they are correct and insightful.
    Can you work out what mysterious magic is at play ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boing3000 View Post
    So it is ok to call an atheist a deluded person, not because he is atheist, but when he show signs of delusion (and is proud of it, as it should be)
    The double standard here is clear: You say it's ok for you to call others deluded because you perceive them to be. Wow, really? You didn't really think this one all the way through.
    Come again ?
    Really ? you think I am the one who gets to decide ? or you ? Again ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boing3000 View Post
    You deserve everyone here an apology.
    You can all Kiss my backside. I'll apologize to you the day Jesus rises from the dead and commands it.
    But it is me, Jesus ! You haven't recognized me yet ? They've just installed the Internet here in heaven, Dady has ask me again to give infinite love and understanding, and an IPhoneXI to the human-apes. I thought that thescienceforum would be a good start.
    I love you Neverfly, I forget all your misbehaving, especially the noise you have made on this thread. Just don't do it again, and you'll have a nice reward.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Fine, if he misinterpreted posts, see him straight. My feeling is that you being too combative about it and he didn't deserve that. It is too late now anyway, but hopefully this might inform how you react in the future.
    And I'm about to be combative with you, now.
    Your post was post number 305, Kalster.
    How long has this been going on?
    How many times must I tolerate patiently explaining, over and over and over again, misunderstandings of clear words? Just a few posts ago, Dywyddyr effectively nailed where Flick ignored clear wording in post 282 and went about suggesting that post 282 said something entirely and utterly different than what it said.
    How long does it go on before you realize that kindly, patiently coddling another poster is going to not only get you no where, but increase the confusion if that behavior is not nipped?

    Too combative? I don't know. I'm not a sweetheart, I'll agree with that. Maybe I'm a bulldog. But even so, it's not wise to keep keep poking a bulldog. Given what's been said in this thread about not forcing other peoples nature, etc- I could make a case that it's my nature to hammer a problem, not lick it.

    Hey Boing: whatever you say.
     

  8. #308  
    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
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    Would I be out of line if I asked you fellas to please knock it off and remain calm? The style of posting and replies here appears to be getting emotionally charged and they need not be that way.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Would I be out of line if I asked you fellas to please knock it off and remain calm? The style of posting and replies here appears to be getting emotionally charged and they need not be that way.
    In hindsight, it's possible that Flick got a heavier reaction from me- as he took the brunt if frustration built up from several members engaging in 'misunderstanding' posts. The list is at five people... Knee jerk reactions that cause the reader to not see what was said shouldn't be tolerated any more than being combative about it.

    Well, I'll get out of the thread and you guys can have at it.
     

  10. #310  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Dwywhatever, I don't know why you're so aggressive
    You take the statement "Missed post #282 then?" as aggressive?
     

  11. #311  
    Forum Masters Degree pavlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I'm clearly not on the same page with you guys. I quote the things you say and you declare me guilty of putting words in your mouth.
    Well it does seem like that, given that neverfly clarified his position numerous times, and I too in post #222

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I never try to manipulate what someone is saying for my personal gain. If I make you feel that way during the course of trying to understand what you're saying, then I apologize.
    Maybe not! But it does seem to be the case, else the clarification we had posted up, has just not gotten through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I'm going to do a quick summary so I can try to clear this up.

    Neverfly, I thought you were suggesting faith was a mental illness because you mentioned schizophrenia and people 'hearing voices', then you mentioned ADHD. My understanding of 'delusion' is that of a medical condition.
    Yes delusion is a clinical condition.
    However all that has been said, is that religious belief is delusional. (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Therefore, I thought you were suggesting faith was a mental disorder that somehow needs to be cured.
    Then you thought wrong, all anybody here has suggested, is as said above.
    We all know that teaching a person to use his critical mind, may lead him to see this belief for what it is a delusional belief. The same as you may see belief in the Tooth fairy, Santa, etc, as such. The more knowledge one requires usually results in less delusional beliefs.

    When one thinks about a thing one must reach a conclusion, however sometimes conclusions are not always pleasant, especially for the religious.

    (1) Likened to delusion, the similarities are astounding.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
     

  12. #312  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Would I be out of line if I asked you fellas to please knock it off and remain calm? The style of posting and replies here appears to be getting emotionally charged and they need not be that way.
    In hindsight, it's possible that Flick got a heavier reaction from me- as he took the brunt if frustration built up from several members engaging in 'misunderstanding' posts. The list is at five people... Knee jerk reactions that cause the reader to not see what was said shouldn't be tolerated any more than being combative about it.

    Well, I'll get out of the thread and you guys can have at it.
    Flick has only made a few posts in this thread and very few after post 282 by seagypsy. I can see how he might have got the wrong impression from that post, which he certainly did, but I don't see the "I tolerate patiently explaining, over and over and over again" bit. You accused him of "making stuff up" in your very first post in response to him after post 282. I would have been pissed off by that if I had been him.

    Too combative? I don't know. I'm not a sweetheart, I'll agree with that. Maybe I'm a bulldog. But even so, it's not wise to keep keep poking a bulldog. Given what's been said in this thread about not forcing other peoples nature, etc- I could make a case that it's my nature to hammer a problem, not lick it.
    Well, that does not convince me. You are being too aggressive and you appear to be scaring away perfectly reasonable people from threads like these. I am asking you to make an attempt to be more civil and not jump to insults like that. Is that really too much to ask? I am making a reasonable request here. I value your contributions when you are being civil, not so much when your overreactions chase people with well earned good reputations out of threads.
    Flick Montana likes this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    I am asking you to make an attempt to be more civil and not jump to insults like that. Is that really too much to ask? I am making a reasonable request here.
    Have you run out of green bold font ? Or do you keep them for snarky well educated people, instead of "knee jerk" self proclaimed aggressive people ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    1)Yes delusion is a clinical condition.
    2)However all that has been said, is that religious belief is delusional. (1)
    For anyone with few amount of logic: (A => B and C = > A) => (C => B)
    So once again you state that 80% of people needs to be in a clinic.

    I know that fanatic zealot afraid the most kind people of this thread, but I have no kindness at all. I suggest that you explain this assertion again, using correct phrasing. You yourself, and not your like'y internet boy friend.
    Don't hesitate to use critical thinking in the process... don't restrain it.
     

  14. #314  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    Another Question/opinion/reasoning of mine that ties into this point:
    If God were Proven to exist,we would loose our freedom of choice.
    not by Gods will,but our own,we would give up our freedom to choose on our own.
    Oh Squirrel, I only just noticed this.
    If god is, in fact, god, with all the attributes claimed for him, what "choice" would we lose?
    If god qua god exists then we have no choice whether we know about him or not.
    The only thing we'd lose would be the illusion that we had a choice.
     

  15. #315  
    Nut Hunter.. NMSquirrel's Avatar
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    four pages and all that was accomplished is:

    iow everone is going in circles..
    Quantime likes this.
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
    http://squirrels-nest.proboards.com/
     

  16. #316  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Boing this isn't fair at all I know we are all capable of being arrogant and fixated with our own beliefs at many times as we are all debating our own perspectives which are true to us, but we can't keep throwing insults at people that's getting nobody anywhere fast. I have noticed in your arguments a lot of mathematical logic and in pavlos argument at lot of psychological logic but I think personally, there isn't mathematical logic being taken in the mind of the different perspectives here. I'm understanding this from another thread I am currently in, perhaps its best that we use the word 'illusion' instead of delusion and we are all guilty here of using different meanings for the same word when actually we are arguing a different argument yet using the same context of what 'we understand', perhaps our personal misconceptions of each other.

    I hope my thoughts and insights here help, I don't think we are all delusional as the word keeps going back and forth just saying things the are logical and do make sense but not in the same language or the same logic, this leads to us not understanding other clearly.

    Cheers.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    four pages and all that was accomplished is:

    iow everone is going in circles..
    Which could have been prevented. Accepting clarifications to posts without stubbornly insisting on a warped perception would be a start. I won't pretend that everything I say is agreeable, but I will say that disgreement does not need to lead to insisting people said things they've not in order to refute their arguments.
     

  18. #318  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Missed post #282 then?
    If you were talking to me, then no.

    I believe in educating people in the sciences. What I do not support is educating people away from faith. If, during the natural course of scientific education, a person should decide their faith no longer holds water, so be it. But it is unfairly aggressive to take an anti-faith stance when educating in the sciences. It's just supporting the notion that faith and science are enemies. To me, they're more like...salmon and cheddar. Both have their place, but no matter how you try to combine them, you're going to have a hard time getting anyone to eat it.
    If you didn't miss it, then perhaps you didn't clearly convey your understanding of it. because my post # 282 says exactly what you just stated in the above quote. Specifically the bolded part. I never suggested taking an anti-faith stance. And i even stated that doing so would be "rude and smacks of proselytizing".

    but your posts seems to suggest that you think I said just the opposite. Either you didn't understand my post or I am not understanding your post. Maybe a little of both?
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
     

  19. #319  
    Nut Hunter.. NMSquirrel's Avatar
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    now we are playing 'I said,You said,she said,he,said,they said..'

    shut up and start over.
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
    http://squirrels-nest.proboards.com/
     

  20. #320  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    now we are playing 'I said,You said,she said,he,said,they said..'

    shut up and start over.
    Diplomatically trying to clear a misunderstanding sometimes diffuses antagonistic perceptions. (don't know if antagonistic is the right word to use but couldn't think of the one i wanted)
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    now we are playing 'I said,You said,she said,he,said,they said..'

    shut up and start over.
    Diplomatically trying to clear a misunderstanding sometimes diffuses antagonistic perceptions. (don't know if antagonistic is the right word to use but couldn't think of the one i wanted)
    At over post 300 posts, diplomacy should be over.
     

  22. #322  
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    This thread has long outlived its purpose.
    Locked.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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