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Thread: Noah's ark..

  1. #1 Noah's ark.. 
    Forum Sophomore laza's Avatar
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    I have a question for believers in this story, how did Noah get every specie of every animal on the boat, how did he get all the 5000 + species of mammals, more then a million insect species, 10 000 living species of birds and so on.
    Now, we all know that that is impossible, so eaither the story is incorrect or all those extra species evolved in the last 4000 years, that is some fast evolution right ?


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    As well as keep them from devouring eachother over the course of forty days and forty nights.


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    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    how did Noah
    He used god magic. Which also saved all of the fresh and saltwater fish from a massive change in water salinity...and kept all of the plants from dieing after being submerged for more than a month.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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    There's also the problem of volcanic ash flats- that would have been utterly obliterated by a flood- yet they remain...
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  6. #5  
    Forum Sophomore laza's Avatar
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    and in the bible it is written that the flood covered all the mountains in the world, well if that was true then noah and all otehr animals would freeze and suffocate on those heights ( above everest )
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    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Noah was a lvl 97 mage in possession of a Bottomless bag. He just shoved them all in there until the rain stopped. That way he could lay around drunk and naked with the goats, undisturbed.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Well obviously Noah didn't need to take all those species. All he had to do was to take various kinds. There is no problem with the kinds evolving into species thereafter, since that is just microevolution. Kinds don't change into other kinds.

    Problem solved. Laza, I don't know you; you probably don't know me. I'm not a believer, I'm just providing you with a typical fundamentalist Christian answer. A moderate Christian would simply see the whole story as a metaphor. (Which is quite smart, because that's exactly what it was, mixed in with a little real world history, borrowed from neighbours.)
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    Forum Sophomore laza's Avatar
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    well, i would tell him that kind is not a scientific term, so i dont care about kind, and it is a problem, how do 2 cats evolve into tigers, leporads and so on in only 4000 years, so they still have a problem even with that kind of answer
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  10. #9  
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    It's a Hebrew myth ripped off a Babylonian one. It was never considered a metaphor until very recently as an excuse to duke scientific scrutiny and complete failure by that modern standard.
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  11. #10  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I don't agree. The Hebrews had a long tradition of literary work in which metaphor plays a key role. I do not doubt that many may have thought the story to be literal, but such is the way of stories for the masses that convey an important message. The New Orleans flooding and death toll were real. The political points made out of the event were not always so. Same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Well obviously Noah didn't need to take all those species. All he had to do was to take various kinds. There is no problem with the kinds evolving into species thereafter, since that is just microevolution. Kinds don't change into other kinds.

    Problem solved. Laza, I don't know you; you probably don't know me. I'm not a believer, I'm just providing you with a typical fundamentalist Christian answer. A moderate Christian would simply see the whole story as a metaphor. (Which is quite smart, because that's exactly what it was, mixed in with a little real world history, borrowed from neighbours.)

    The metaphor idea is based off the biblical description of the Ark which seems to match a temple more closely than a ship.
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    It's not just "many" that thought it to be literal....it's all Muslims, Jews and Christians until about 200 years ago. All of them, without exception. The idea that any of the stories in the Old Testament are primarily metaphor is for the most part a recent invention and revision of the mythology by apologist for those three Abrahamic religions. A few hundred years ago, you would have literally believed not only the flood story, but also the stories of talking snakes, golems, fairy serpents, talking bushes on fire, people turned into pillars of salt, just for starters. It's all garbage. The best one can hope for it some of the stories perhaps had a tiniest "grain of salt," and were wildly exaggerated over time as many oral stories tend to do--a family that desperate clings to the roof of his grass hut during a flood becomes a global disaster etc. A dozen Jews that cross an Egyptian canal at low tide becomes the a half a million in Exodus.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; December 21st, 2012 at 11:31 PM.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Sophomore laza's Avatar
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    my favorite one is when god stops the solar system so that Joshua can finish his battle, that one cracks me up every time
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    question..

    alot of non-believers cite that yes there have been floods around the earth throughout history, but none a global event..

    so how many floods have there been throughout history?
    would there have been enough floods before moses time to be able to 'wipe out humanity' ? for my question they dont have to happen at the same time..
    If they were condensed to one time frame would that cover the earth?
    (or at least cover humanities locations)
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    Hardly...

    I'd heard the apologetic idea that the story was a parable for the Temple one can find refuge in during a great tempest. It really is about the only way one can accept the story and keep their sanity at the same time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laza View Post
    I have a question for believers in this story, how did Noah get every specie of every animal on the boat, how did he get all the 5000 + species of mammals, more then a million insect species, 10 000 living species of birds and so on.
    Where did you get these figures from? Only 5,000 species of mamals? I noticed the plus. Does that mean that the 5,000 is really 500,000?

    Quote Originally Posted by laza View Post
    Now, we all know that that is impossible, so eaither the story is incorrect or all those extra species evolved in the last 4000 years, that is some fast evolution right ?
    Let's face facts. It never happened. It's just a myth meant to tell a moral story.

    etc.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    how did Noah
    He used god magic.
    Then he shouldn't have done it the hard way. He should have just transported all the mamals etc. into the future when the Earth regained its stability
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    how did Noah
    He used god magic.
    Then he shouldn't have done it the hard way. He should have just transported all the mamals etc. into the future when the Earth regained its stability
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    question..

    alot of non-believers cite that yes there have been floods around the earth throughout history, but none a global event..

    so how many floods have there been throughout history?
    would there have been enough floods before moses time to be able to 'wipe out humanity' ? for my question they dont have to happen at the same time..
    If they were condensed to one time frame would that cover the earth?
    (or at least cover humanities locations)

    No.

    But most early civilization got established along rich and fertile river valleys prone to catastrophic flooding from time to time.

    --
    I challenge anyone coming up with something credible written before 1800 that suggest the story was anything but a real and factual event.
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  21. #20  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    From what I understand...there was a super-flood in that region sometime during that time. I have heard theories about a river valley getting damned up by a lava flow...which created a large lake behind it. Then the natural dam broke catastrophically, and caused the entire lake to empty.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    No.
    No?
    thats it?
    nothing to add to it?
    no links..no opinions..just No??
    I feel cheated..

    I challenge anyone coming up with something credible written before 1800 that suggest the story was anything but a real and factual event.
    you are pro-global flood?
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    question..

    alot of non-believers cite that yes there have been floods around the earth throughout history, but none a global event..

    so how many floods have there been throughout history?
    would there have been enough floods before moses time to be able to 'wipe out humanity' ? for my question they dont have to happen at the same time..
    If they were condensed to one time frame would that cover the earth?
    (or at least cover humanities locations)
    Thing is, catastrophic flood or not, they never wipe out everyone (well, usually). Fact is, there were people all over the world long before the flood was supposed to have taken place. Those people are still there.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Thing is, catastrophic flood or not, they never wipe out everyone (well, usually). Fact is, there were people all over the world long before the flood was supposed to have taken place. Those people are still there.
    I always wondered about that... because they talk about the Canaanites...
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  25. #24  
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    Not sure what you mean?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    Me either. I think I confused one part of the bible with another...
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  27. #26  
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    Well, both are instances of extreme genocide by the hand of god. With one an entire culture is wiped out, because god gave their land to the Jews (or so the church elders said) and the other god murders and condems to hell the entire world short of a few people who cowered well enough. That bible enthusiasts can read this stuff and not be completely aghast at the sheer horror of this invented being is a deeply disturbing thing to me.
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    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  28. #27  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    I'm wilth you Kal. While most of the world may have been wicked and need to be killed....surely there was a few good people. Grog...the guy who fed the old widow in his village. Nog...who adopted his dead friends kids. Surely there were more righteous people on the planet besides Noah. It just doesn't seem fair.
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    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  29. #28  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    I'm wilth you Kal. While most of the world may have been wicked and need to be killed....surely there was a few good people. Grog...the guy who fed the old widow in his village. Nog...who adopted his dead friends kids. Surely there were more righteous people on the planet besides Noah. It just doesn't seem fair.
    So God DID kill off the farengis.... that throws off the star trek canon entirely.
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    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    I'm wilth you Kal. While most of the world may have been wicked and need to be killed....surely there was a few good people. Grog...the guy who fed the old widow in his village. Nog...who adopted his dead friends kids. Surely there were more righteous people on the planet besides Noah. It just doesn't seem fair.
    So God DID kill off the farengis.... that throws off the star trek canon entirely.
    no he just killed Nog..Quark is still kicking..
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  31. #30  
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    Jeez guys
    It's just a plagiarized story borrowed from an oral tradition
    that has puzzled many an idle mind for generations of generations
    was it the flooding of
    the red sea?
    doggerland?
    the black sea?
    the persian gulf?
    or
    is it an old story from the melting of the last glaciation, and world wide rise in sea level
    inundating river estuaries all over the world

    really
    it's just a story
    a hint
    of an ancient flooding disaster
    and an explanation focusing on one supposed god
    in support of an earthly polity
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  32. #31  
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    I believe the most likely explanation for Noah's Ark was given by William Stirling in his book The Canon. Go to Chapter 4.

    http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/qbl/Stirling_The_Canon.pdf?bcsi_scan_1a0e2e7de62067f4= 0&bcsi_scan_filename=Stirling_The_Canon.pdf


    The ancients were always trying to unify the microcosm (the body) with the macrocosm (the cosmos).
    I've actually seen Mount Ararat close by from within Turkey. I got out of the bus and could hardly breathe with the altitude. I imagine that many animals would also have trouble breathing at that altitude. Shame on all theists who believe it literally. And what fools are they that go there and try and find a fragment of wood belonging to the ark. These fools included an american astronaut (James Irwin).
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