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Thread: What is the point of religion is it coming to an end ?

  1. #1 What is the point of religion is it coming to an end ? 
    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    Does anybody know any religious follower that is true to their faith, as I do not know of one person who I can say, is True to their beliefs

    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.

    The point I am trying to make is Is religion a waste of time, Or am I wrong ?


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    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
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    I'd say the Monks of Mount Athos are true to their faith. They spend the bulk of their time worshiping.

    Mount Athos — National Geographic Magazine


    Mt. Athos, Part 1 - 60 Minutes - CBS News


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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits ...
    Is that any better or worse than anyone else?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Religion doesn't now mean what it once did, most people who are actually religious are even capable of seeing many of the contradictions and absurdities existing within their own religions, we understand more about the way the world works and even when we don't understand we may still often be aware that the things we may are not the work of God.
    For these reasons religion doesn't and can't have the same hold over people, indeed in the modern world for many, with some notable exceptions, religion should be considered more of an engrossing hobby.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.
    The answer to that one is that we all may be sinners but only christians are saved. I don't know what, if any, concept serves a similar purpose in other religions.

    Though I must say I was seriously taken aback when I found out that some of these saved people believe it's a once and for always thing. Go through the saved process and you're off the hook for the rest of your life. Now that is weird.

    It certainly doesn't work that way for catholics, or especially for hindus working their way up the slippery reincarnation pole - any contact or contamination from the wrong kind of person or thing, and your efforts up to that point seem to be wasted (from what I can gather. I'm no expert on religious stuff). At least catholics can repent and gain forgiveness/reconciliation. No second chances for hindus in this life as far as I can tell. They have to wait until their next incarnation - but I'm probably mistaking one sector's beliefs for the whole lot if my record for accuracy on religious matters is anything to go by.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Does anybody know any religious follower that is true to their faith, as I do not know of one person who I can say, is True to their beliefs
    Not one personally, then again religion is just an excuse to people to give their lives meaning, if they really believed it and that they might burn in hell the world would be full of saints; it isn't.

    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.
    A lot of people can be hypocrites it is a tool for learning about yourself and contradicting beliefs you may have. However if they unchange and you believe you are absolutley right (religion for instance) then yes they are walking hypocrites.

    The point I am trying to make is Is religion a waste of time, Or am I wrong ?
    Yes it is a waste of time, a complete waste of time. You are absolutley right!
    Genesis likes this.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    SEEKER Genesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits ...
    Is that any better or worse than anyone else?
    No I Guess not , So what is the point of following a religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits ...
    Is that any better or worse than anyone else?
    No I Guess not , So what is the point of following a religion.
    I don't think people decide to join a religion because they have weighed the advantages and disadvantages. They either believe or they don't.

    What is the point of this thread, might be a better question.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    No I Guess not , So what is the point of following a religion.
    What's the point of football?
    Last edited by Strange; November 27th, 2012 at 01:28 PM. Reason: spelling
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Does anybody know any religious follower that is true to their faith, as I do not know of one person who I can say, is True to their beliefs

    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.

    The point I am trying to make is Is religion a waste of time, Or am I wrong ?
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things. They used their own minds to devise a plan that made up their religious point of views with loopholes made into them. It says that everyone is born a sinner so you already owe religion the time to get that done away with, clever people who wrote the bible putting people into a troubled situation before they leave the womb. Then, if you adhere to their religious views, you'll be exonerated one day , if they think you have at least, then be able to reach the kingdom of heaven. They even have ways of getting you there even if you have done some very bad things, it is called absolution, whereby you get forgiven of everything you did just before you die. Nice touch with that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    Apparently, people believe all sorts of odd things...
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    You see I used the word "believe" so that you would understand why religions exist at all today, because people believe in them. So if they can believe in that, I surely can believe otherwise for I have free will to think anything I wish.
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; November 27th, 2012 at 09:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    You see I used the word "believe" so that you would understand why religions exist at all today, because people believe in them. Soi if they can believe in that, I surely can believe otherwise for I have free will to think anything I wish.
    This is not a forum for believing. It is a science forum. Discuss the topic scientifically, or not at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    You see I used the word "believe" so that you would understand why religions exist at all today, because people believe in them. Soi if they can believe in that, I surely can believe otherwise for I have free will to think anything I wish.
    This is not a forum for believing. It is a science forum. Discuss the topic scientifically, or not at all.
    Harold cannot properly discuss on your statement cosmic, because he is bound by his Admin tag and must remain polite...but I will help him with this particular issue. Cosmictraveler, the following statement you made:

    "Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things."

    is [expletive deleted]are you 5 year old, [expletive deleted]...naive or something or did you wake up this morning with a [expletive deleted] instead of a brain? The problem is not expressing beliefs that are not scientifically supportable, the problem is that what you said is [expletive deleted] stupid.

    glad to help
    Last edited by Harold14370; November 27th, 2012 at 05:19 PM. Reason: We are trying to clean up the languange on the forum.
    Neverfly likes this.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Oxycodone;370775]
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post

    is [expletive deleted]are you 5 year old, [expletive deleted]...naive or something or did you wake up this morning with a [expletive deleted] instead of a brain? The problem is not expressing beliefs that are not scientifically supportable, the problem is that what you said is [expletive deleted] stupid.

    glad to help
    Well I'm glad that Harold has someone who can tell it like it is. Do you get your scientific facts about religions from the book or books that men and women have written or do you have other scientific proof that religions were not made up by humans to control others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    This is not a forum for believing. It is a science forum. Discuss the topic scientifically, or not at all.
    Maybe there's some history I'm not aware of; But that whole exchange looked out of line, to me.

    Nor did that post strike me as naive, five years old or stupid. It' pretty accurate, actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    This is not a forum for believing. It is a science forum. Discuss the topic scientifically, or not at all.
    Maybe there's some history I'm not aware of; But that whole exchange looked out of line, to me.

    Nor did that post strike me as naive, five years old or stupid. It' pretty accurate, actually.
    The history is a more or less uphill battle on my part to turn this subforum into a science discussion forum. As it is, it is mostly used as an echo chamber for atheist and anti-theist opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    The history is a more or less uphill battle on my part to turn this subforum into a science discussion forum. As it is, it is mostly used as an echo chamber for atheist and anti-theist opinion.
    I see your point...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    I'll explain why the statement is bad:

    - first, you don't know that religions were "started" as there is a non zero probability for them to be true as long as they are not proven untrue.
    - the use of words like "others" and "things" reduces your credibility of aproximatly 98.7%.

    Now, to explain to you why religions were "started" IN CASE it is true, that they were started. Imagine this:

    I am a robber, I steal people's money cars and so on. I am a big robber, I have the police in my pocket, you cannot stop me. No one can. I challenge you to give A SINGLE REASON why i should stop robbing. ONLY ONE! Just one!

    People say: "You should stop robbing because people suffer because of it."

    So I tell them, they suffer, great! I am a sexual sadist, I get off on their suffering, it turns me on, so why should I stop robbing? I like it! It's fun stuff! THen people say:

    "You should stop robbing because robbing is bad."

    So I say, it's bad for the person being robbed! Not for me! Me it's good, I get money, women, cars etc...why should I stop? So they say:

    "You should stop robbing because you will lose your dignity, and moral values"

    So I'm like, I got no moral values! Moral is for the weak! YOU go ahead and have moral! So they say:

    "You should stop robbing because Police will catch you or the people you rob may seek revenge and kill you"

    So I say, not true, I am a big robber, I got 120 bodyguards with AK-47, I will kill them first! No worries!


    Brother, so far, nobody has been able to answer my question and say why such a person should stop robbing! Nobody! If you have the answer, provide it in this topic! You give us the answer! You see now why religion was "started"? I was very polite to stick to robbing, but in the ages of Aristotes, many rulers were pedophiles who raped and murdered a child per day, and if you asked them to stop they said "why? I like it, it turns me on...the ejaculation is intense. Good stuff!" So how do you persuade such a person to stop doing that and hurting others? How? He is powerful, he has army at his feet, no one can touch him. That's why! To stop the murder, the abomination from spreading around the world.

    2000 years ago they didn't have 911. People needed at least an inch of moral guiding. So they said, this life...it is a test for the year after. It's a test. Just like the forum registration asks you the question to prevent spammers, Earth is a test for the heavens. It's the only way to stop idiots from doing idiotic things...unfortunatly.
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    Oxycodone, I see your point, as well.

    Ignorance was abundant, back in the day and not always because of a lack of trying. So, you had a field where the soil only contains a limited amount of nutrients for a certain amount of time and you need farmers to rotate their crops. If you try explaining soil depletion to them, they won't understand. "My family has been farming on this plot 30 years!"
    But if it's an edict from a higher power, that they understand.

    Once superstition was established, it was all too easy to manipulate it for control- and profit.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    2000 years ago they didn't have 911. People needed at least an inch of moral guiding. So they said, this life...it is a test for the year after. It's a test. Just like the forum registration asks you the question to prevent spammers, Earth is a test for the heavens. It's the only way to stop idiots from doing idiotic things...unfortunatly.
    Making laws that penalized those who did the wrong thing was a age old way to stop people from commiting criminal offences. Laws are somerthing that don't need superstition to understand and if you know that you will be caught one day you will have second thoughts about doing anything criminal. Even those superstitions have their loopholes like when a Catholic dies they can be given a free pass to thier "heaven" no matter what crimninal things they did when they were alive. So by making human made laws we now can punish others in this world of reality and not wait for their punishment for the hereafter as many say will happen.
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    Genesis,

    Does anybody know any religious follower that is true to their faith, as I do not know of one person who I can say, is True to their beliefs

    Are "religion" and "theism" the same thing?
    I think most people who follow a religion, religiously, are true to their faith, of that particular religion, but not necessarily faithful in God.

    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.
    What makes you think that a religious person cannot commit sin? Isn't that the whole point of being religious? To learn how to control the senses, the gateway
    to sinful activity?

    The point I am trying to make is Is religion a waste of time, Or am I wrong ?
    For some, maybe, because they don't want to control their lusty desires, or, they already have control over such desires.

    jan.
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    Forum Sophomore Phlogistician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    Let's try this one, guy leading a group of nomads is peeved there's a schism worshipping this old deity, so goes up a hill for a while, and comes down with a list of rules supposedly given to him by the new god, one of which tells the schism to stop worshipping the old god. Or haven't you read and understood the Old Testament?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Does anybody know any religious follower that is true to their faith, as I do not know of one person who I can say, is True to their beliefs

    In fact I can say they are all Hypocrits as they commit as many sins and have as many faults as everybody else.

    The point I am trying to make is Is religion a waste of time, Or am I wrong ?
    Your comment confirms the Bible truth that all humans are sinful (make mistakes do wrong things) and have many faults, thus the Bible was provided to bring them to our attention so that the faithful can try to put them right!

    big
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogistician View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Religions were started , I believe, to control others with their views about things.
    You believe that, do you? Do you have any evidence to support it?
    Let's try this one, guy leading a group of nomads is peeved there's a schism worshipping this old deity, so goes up a hill for a while, and comes down with a list of rules supposedly given to him by the new god, one of which tells the schism to stop worshipping the old god. Or haven't you read and understood the Old Testament?
    So, you are using the biblical text as a historical fact?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, you are using the biblical text as a historical fact?
    Irrelevant.
    The believers of the religion treat it as though it is which has exactly the same effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BELIEVERINGOD View Post
    Your comment confirms the Bible truth that all humans are sinful (make mistakes do wrong things) and have many faults
    I don't believe in mistakes. I believe in choices. Some are harder to live with than others, but every choice you survive makes you stronger and smarter, better prepared to face challenges. To fear making a poor choice is to encourage inaction. You can pray to have your poor choices washed away, but I will hold onto mine. They have led me down paths that have tested and tempered me and made me all the better for it.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, you are using the biblical text as a historical fact?
    Irrelevant.
    The believers of the religion treat it as though it is which has exactly the same effect.
    How? It does not prove why religions were started. The believers do not necessarily know how the religion was started, and usually have wildly inaccurate stories about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, you are using the biblical text as a historical fact?
    Irrelevant.
    The believers of the religion treat it as though it is which has exactly the same effect.
    How? It does not prove why religions were started. The believers do not necessarily know how the religion was started, and usually have wildly inaccurate stories about it.
    Hmmm...
    I agree. It's not conclusion worthy.
    But I also think you still missed the point.

    "Religion" is established. Beliefs- not so established.
    So we can debate the origin of beliefs and get nowhere. But "Religion" was opportunistic. Just as Marketing is. When certain people saw the power of belief in a gathering of beliefs, they knew they could exploit it. It the believers believed in the history as told by that religion, the effect is still the same, since they are the ones being influenced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Hmmm...
    I agree. It's not conclusion worthy.
    But I also think you still missed the point.

    "Religion" is established. Beliefs- not so established.
    So we can debate the origin of beliefs and get nowhere. But "Religion" was opportunistic. Just as Marketing is. When certain people saw the power of belief in a gathering of beliefs, they knew they could exploit it. It the believers believed in the history as told by that religion, the effect is still the same, since they are the ones being influenced.
    Maybe I missed the point. I don't care. An unsupported statement of fact was made, and I challenged it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Maybe I missed the point. I don't care. An unsupported statement of fact was made, and I challenged it.
    Fair enough. Tell me, what is the support requirement?
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    Well, if we want to study how religions get started, it would probably be a hard thing to do, especially for the older religions where it is lost in antiquity. Maybe you could look at more recently founded religions and study their history. Were they founded with the purpose of controlling people? No doubt, you would find that some people used religion to control people. This wouldn't necessarily prove it was the purpose. If we found the purpose for one religion, that wouldn't necessarily mean all religions had the same purpose, but at least we would be discussing something factual.

    Also when we talk about purpose, we need to make a distinction. When discussing evolution, we might say something like "the purpose of fur is to keep the animal warm." This isn't strictly true. The fur had the effect of keeping the animal warm, which allowed it to survive and propagate. We could discuss the "purpose" of religion in the same way by examining how the practice of religion helped its adherents to propagate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Well, if we want to study how religions get started, it would probably be a hard thing to do, especially for the older religions where it is lost in antiquity.
    This is true, as well as questionable records that do exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Maybe you could look at more recently founded religions and study their history. Were they founded with the purpose of controlling people?
    Mormonism and Scientology. Hmmmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    No doubt, you would find that some people used religion to control people. This wouldn't necessarily prove it was the purpose. If we found the purpose for one religion, that wouldn't necessarily mean all religions had the same purpose, but at least we would be discussing something factual.
    Ok, agreed.
    I went off on a wrong tangent there. I retract some earlier statements.
    Saying it was created specifically for the purpose of control is not accurate.
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