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Thread: god vs evolution question

  1. #1 god vs evolution question 
    Forum Freshman coolaak's Avatar
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    i am a biology major and currently an atheist so for all those believers out there, i hear the statement " If god created us who created god" just wanted to know the religious answer to that question.


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  3. #2  
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    Well, the most usual answer is:

    "God has always been"
    "God doesn't exist the way we do so it is not proper to speak like that"
    "Because there has to be a begin"

    As said I am atheist too but what about the idea
    God created the basis and the creation caused evolution?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman coolaak's Avatar
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    that definitly could be... i dont know that god doesn't exist, just being a science major i see all the evidence that points otherwise. maybe aliens created "god" who knows lol.
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  5. #4 Re: god vs evolution question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolaak
    i am a biology major and currently an atheist so for all those believers out there, i hear the statement " If god created us who created god" just wanted to know the religious answer to that question.
    Hi,coolaak,

    Given the scriptoral description and definitions of God, and knowing that to be the literal source of descriptions and definitions, why do you ask the question?

    Jan.

    Jan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolaak
    i am a biology major and currently an atheist so for all those believers out there, i hear the statement " If god created us who created god" just wanted to know the religious answer to that question.
    Man created God.
    Man has created Hundreds of Gods, Sun Gods, Mountain Gods, Fire Gods ,Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Reptile Gods, Animal Gods, Ancestral Gods.
    Yep there are Millions of them, One of them, the Sun Is actually a credible God, Millions prostrate themselves before Sol every year in silent Vigil, hours at a time.

    From Sun Worship to 1824 & Ol Jo Smith and his set of Gold plates depicting Ancient North American inhabitants. Like all Good people who start a religion he was crucified, well that is set upon by a mob and killed while in prison trying to become president [future presidents found it easier to do things the other way round as it gave them immunity]
    Anyway The Mormon Religion, or the Church Of latter day Saints and its book (they all have a book) 'The Book Of Nephi' are holed up somewhere in Utah. I have a lot of Respect for them. They are ordinary decent people who genuinly help others. There's a lot of crap spread around about these folks like Polygamy and stealing peoples souls after death but it ain't true. We had a Mormon family living near us, I have to say they were the nicest most inoffensive, well-behaved people I have Ever met. They truly cared about people, Never did they try and convert me nor did they shun my atheist views. I have never met a Muslim, Christian or Jew who comes anywhere near them.

    They get my vote for the 'Religion most likely to' Especially since their book is only about 180 years old and having read the Bible, The Qu'ran
    The Book Of Nephi is a refreshing change from 'Kill all the unbelievers!
    I really believe if there's a God, God is a Mormon!.
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    ive always respected native americans religion/way of life and like the whole "take what you need and nothing more mentality" and them seeing the earth and animals as something sacred
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    Yeah, there are so many other peaceful religions in the world and because they are placid the agressive ones eat them up.
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  9. #8 Re: god vs evolution question 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolaak
    i am a biology major and currently an atheist so for all those believers out there, i hear the statement " If god created us who created god" just wanted to know the religious answer to that question.
    Aristotle in his book called "Metaphysics" because it was the book just before the one entitled "Physics" argued that everything cannot have a cause but there must be something which is the first cause from which everthing else arises, He called this the the "unmoved mover". The argument relies on the intuition that a progression of causality reaching backward without end is nonsensical. However this is not an intuition shared by everyone and so Aristotles idea and proof is not universally accepted. Needless to say when Christianity got its hands on the works of Aristotle they identified their God with this "unmoved mover" of Aristotle's.

    There is a modern addition to this idea of Aristotle's deriving from the conclusion of General Relativity and the Big Bang theory which suggests that space and time, being a part of the particular structure of the physical universe, did not always exist but came into existence at a point of time in the past. This has led to the idea that God exists outside of this space and time as their creator. This has suggested the idea that the question of "what came before God" or "what is the cause of God" may have no meaning at least in the usual time-ordered sense of causality that is used in science.

    If this idea is accepted then the only questions that remains are "Why God?" and "Why not Nothing?" Why is nothing presumed to be a more reasonable or likely state than something? Well the advantage of "nothing" seems to be that there is nothing about it that needs any explanation. This suggests that if God is as likely as nothing then God also must have a similar nature that there is nothing about Him that requires explanation. This gives rise to the idea of the the infinite God - a God without any limit or peculiar characteristic that would suggest a need for some explanation or cause. Granted that such a God is no easy conception and involves numerous paradoxes, but if such a concept is possible then the answer to the question of "Why God?" can simply be "Why not?"

    But can this infinite God be identified with the Christian God? Well their are a few attributes of God that suggest some difficulties, such as God being good and loving. However, these are not insoluable for it all depends on how you look at these attributes. It can be argued that these attributes are relational - that is they only have meaning in relationship to other beings and that they are neccessary characteristics of an infinite God in relation to finite beings which God has created. Far more troublesome is the Christian idea of the Trinity: that God is three persons. However, this does have a controversial solution that has not yet been declared a heresy - not yet. And that is that God is actually an infinity of persons and that it is only three which we are acquainted with and have knowledge of.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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  10. #9 Re: god vs evolution question 
    Moderator Moderator John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    And that is that God is actually an infinity of persons and that it is only three which we are acquainted with and have knowledge of.
    This is getting dangerously close to my own preferred world view (courtesy of Heinlein) of pantheistic multiperson solipsism. 8)
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    Quote Originally Posted by billco
    Man created God.
    Man has created Hundreds of Gods, Sun Gods, Mountain Gods, Fire Gods ,Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Reptile Gods, Animal Gods, Ancestral Gods.
    Yep there are Millions of them, One of them, the Sun Is actually a credible God, Millions prostrate themselves before Sol every year in silent Vigil, hours at a time.
    Man created God and God created Man so Man created Man. sounds right.

    seriously though, though Im catholic I dont think God is how most people think he is, in my humble opinion God is just the universe and all the laws that guide it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Quote Originally Posted by billco
    Man created God.
    Man has created Hundreds of Gods, Sun Gods, Mountain Gods, Fire Gods ,Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Reptile Gods, Animal Gods, Ancestral Gods.
    Yep there are Millions of them, One of them, the Sun Is actually a credible God, Millions prostrate themselves before Sol every year in silent Vigil, hours at a time.
    Man created God and God created Man so Man created Man. sounds right.

    seriously though, though Im catholic I dont think God is how most people think he is, in my humble opinion God is just the universe and all the laws that guide it.
    Can I take it that you are in complete agreement with me that 'GOD' is nothing more or less than all Space, Time, Matter, Energy and History?

    If so, then it's 2 down and 6,385,219,707...8...9 to go!
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  13. #12  
    Forum Sophomore kingjacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billco
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Quote Originally Posted by billco
    Man created God.
    Man has created Hundreds of Gods, Sun Gods, Mountain Gods, Fire Gods ,Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Reptile Gods, Animal Gods, Ancestral Gods.
    Yep there are Millions of them, One of them, the Sun Is actually a credible God, Millions prostrate themselves before Sol every year in silent Vigil, hours at a time.
    Man created God and God created Man so Man created Man. sounds right.

    seriously though, though Im catholic I dont think God is how most people think he is, in my humble opinion God is just the universe and all the laws that guide it.
    Can I take it that you are in complete agreement with me that 'GOD' is nothing more or less than all Space, Time, Matter, Energy and History?

    If so, then it's 2 down and 6,385,219,707...8...9 to go!
    Yes and if pretty much any person of the judeo-christian realized exactly what is meant by God is omni-everything they'd be in agreement as well. Because to be truly omnipotent the only possible conclusion, is that GOD is "everything".
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  14. #13 Re: god vs evolution question 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    And that is that God is actually an infinity of persons and that it is only three which we are acquainted with and have knowledge of.
    This is getting dangerously close to my own preferred world view (courtesy of Heinlein) of pantheistic multiperson solipsism. )
    Based on Stranger in a strange land?

    But come come now, in the hair splitting world of theology which uses such terms as pantheism, the two points of view under discussion are worlds apart.

    I would never go for pantheism because God's desire to create something other than himself is the reason for creating life and the universe. I consider solipsism to be a philosophy which is compatable with neither pragmatism nor existentialism - to be a philosophy which is entertainment for the idle intellect but of no use in neccessities of human existence.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    First, its important to note that there is no inherent battle, or adversity between "god" and evolution. As much as Jerry Fallwell on once side, and Richard Dawkins on the other, would like you to believe.

    There is no reason that a religious person cannot recognize evolution and also believe in a god. Who's to say that God didn't create the means for evolution? This is still creation no? Even the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church is that there is no opposition between evolution and god. The problem is that fundamentalist christians in the US never seemed to have gotten the memo.

    So as it turns out, Evolution Vs. God is an extremist viewpoint really. And unfortunately is is becomming a mainstream misconception due to the whole Creationism debate. The people who truly back creationism and argue for it, and argue against evolution are a small percent of the US population in reality. Unfortunately they have convinced many people that you must take a side. They make people think you must be pro-god, or pro-evolution.

    Talk to any reputable protestant, or anglican minister and they will further explain this to you, as most of them see no problem between the 2. This is war brewed by literalist fundamentalists who believe Noah's flood happened and the world was created in 7 days.
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  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBigBobby
    Talk to any reputable protestant, or anglican minister and they will further explain this to you, as most of them see no problem between the 2. This is war brewed by literalist fundamentalists who believe Noah's flood happened and the world was created in 7 days.
    Although I am a theistic evolutionist, evolutionary creationist, or whatever you want to call it, I am not in favor of trivializing the issues involved in this by demoting everyone with an opposing point of view to the status of lacking the attribute of "reputable". The pastor of my church happens to disagree with my point view regarding evolution and He has my respect as well as the respect of all the members of one of the largest Christian congregations in Utah.

    Is it possible that you live in Great Britain?
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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