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Thread: Why there can never be a new world religion.

  1. #1 Why there can never be a new world religion. 
    ox
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    Could we replace the tired old world religions with another? I think there is enough evidence to suggest that a new one could never have the same features as the old ones. For a start, vastly improved education would prevent any repeat of a religion being based on signs and symbols, which was the language of the illiterate. Law and order would prevent the type of start up by the sword which was found in Islam. The global clampdown on harmful drugs would prevent religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity taking off. A need to see proof, as well as credibility would preclude another Mormon type religion.
    The drugs and alcohol religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity) were based upon heightened states of consciousness achieved with these substances. Can we identify these stimulants? We can take a good guess at some. For Buddha, whose enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree was accompanied by a feeling of timelessness, the plant may have been the Soma or Haoma. Drinking it led to immortality. Its use was also described in the Vedas and in Zoroastrianism.
    The mushroom Psilocybe Cubensis was the hallucinogenic mushroom which grew in cow dung and was probably the reason why cows were elevated to sacred status in Hinduism. Surely that could never happen again?
    The Fly Agaric (Amanita Muscaria) was the likely magic mushroom used by the early Christians. This was eventually replaced by a reverence for wine and beer. Many medieval monasteries were little more than breweries. Buddhism did at least ban the drinking of wine in its 5 precepts, but it has not banned the use of hallucinatory drugs.
    With Aleister Crowley who attempted a start up religion, heroin was used to attain a state of consciousness called Dhyana. Unfortunately for Crowley the Dangerous Drugs Act was then passed.
    There couldn't really be another like Joseph Smith either. The public would demand proof of the existence of the Golden Tablets. Any religion with an element of the supernatural, which includes most of the above, would fail the credibility test.
    In that case, could science be one day elevated to replace religion? I think its only a matter of time. The post human has already been glimpsed. A sort of part man / part machine which would have no need of the old beliefs.


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    I'm starting to believe in Aliens. Probably I wouldn't get far trying to formalize it into a religion, though, because I'm not dishonest enough to say they're talking to me and communicating their will. There's no holy book (those only work if they're so old nobody can subject their origins to scrutiny). All we have are a few self proclaimed psychics who've written books about it, but those are fairy/hippy stories that are just too difficult to take seriously. Yes... I have attempted to read a few of them.

    When I gave up religion, intelligent aliens were simply the next most logical choice. What could I do?


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    Scientology...
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  5. #4 V don't need religon, V need God! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    I'm starting to believe in Aliens. Probably I wouldn't get far trying to formalize it into a religion, though, because I'm not dishonest enough to say they're talking to me and communicating their will. There's no holy book (those only work if they're so old nobody can subject their origins to scrutiny). All we have are a few self proclaimed psychics who've written books about it, but those are fairy/hippy stories that are just too difficult to take seriously. Yes... I have attempted to read a few of them.

    When I gave up religion, intelligent aliens were simply the next most logical choice. What could I do?
    trust God, not religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    In that case, could science be one day elevated to replace religion? I think its only a matter of time.
    Fully explains your mindset. Do you understand what dogma means?

    Even the stuff you proselytise i agree with, you have a way of making it sound like the dogmatic ramblings of a pseudo priest.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

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    Few believed in aliens until the 20th Century. Then along came ufology and scientology to part fill the vacuum created by dying world religions. But there is no evidence of aliens, just like there is no evidence of gods. At least I'm hearing that SETI is opening again for business. Now supposing that SETI does detect intelligent alien life. That would almost certainly be the death rattle for existing world religions because out of nothing there would be competition.
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    I think there is an abundance of new religions already replacing the tired old world religions,
    such as TV, shopping, Facebook, Art, Sailing, Rock Climbing, Darts, Football, Dining out, Work, Engineering.....

    These examples are how people spend their time. Religion may once have been the centre of life of a people of any given culture, but it no longer is, it has been replaced. We just don't call the replacement religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    At least I'm hearing that SETI is opening again for business. Now supposing that SETI does detect intelligent alien life. That would almost certainly be the death rattle for existing world religions because out of nothing there would be competition.
    Why? None of the religious text of the largest religions state God only created one intelligent species of all the heavens and the Abrahamic ones tell us he created a few anyhow including angels, demons etc. I think it would have almost no impact at all on modern faiths to discover we're not alone.

    Sorry Pedronaut, watching TV is not a religion anymore than sleeping which takes up even more time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Sorry Pedronaut, watching TV is not a religion anymore than sleeping which takes up even more time.
    Well then i'd like to start 2 new religions. Most of you are already members and owe me a lifetime of dues. (smiley Face)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Could we replace the tired old world religions with another? I think there is enough evidence to suggest that a new one could never have the same features as the old ones. For a start, vastly improved education would prevent any repeat of a religion being based on signs and symbols, which was the language of the illiterate. Law and order would prevent the type of start up by the sword which was found in Islam. The global clampdown on harmful drugs would prevent religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity taking off. A need to see proof, as well as credibility would preclude another Mormon type religion.
    The drugs and alcohol religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity) were based upon heightened states of consciousness achieved with these substances. Can we identify these stimulants? We can take a good guess at some. For Buddha, whose enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree was accompanied by a feeling of timelessness, the plant may have been the Soma or Haoma. Drinking it led to immortality. Its use was also described in the Vedas and in Zoroastrianism.
    The mushroom Psilocybe Cubensis was the hallucinogenic mushroom which grew in cow dung and was probably the reason why cows were elevated to sacred status in Hinduism. Surely that could never happen again?
    The Fly Agaric (Amanita Muscaria) was the likely magic mushroom used by the early Christians. This was eventually replaced by a reverence for wine and beer. Many medieval monasteries were little more than breweries. Buddhism did at least ban the drinking of wine in its 5 precepts, but it has not banned the use of hallucinatory drugs.
    With Aleister Crowley who attempted a start up religion, heroin was used to attain a state of consciousness called Dhyana. Unfortunately for Crowley the Dangerous Drugs Act was then passed.
    There couldn't really be another like Joseph Smith either. The public would demand proof of the existence of the Golden Tablets. Any religion with an element of the supernatural, which includes most of the above, would fail the credibility test.
    In that case, could science be one day elevated to replace religion? I think its only a matter of time. The post human has already been glimpsed. A sort of part man / part machine which would have no need of the old beliefs.
    You don't even mastered those religion you have mentioned above.
    How can one drugs addict person,who live in halucination can master the theory of science even thousand years ago?
    As in taoism, Yin Yang is a concept of positive and negative in science.
    theory of creation in budism,taoism,christiany,islam,hinduism all is in the right order as in science.
    12 chinese zodiac is a count of 12 year of sun cycle.
    baktun in mayan calender also count of galaxy cycle.
    Chinese Feng Shui is more a concept of energy,air flow,magnetic field,5 elements of live.
    And buddhism is a thought obout eternal of energy/dark matter/god particle(higgs bosson).
    and a lot more.

    Almost all that thought achieved at the meditative state, which is you call halucinating/using drugs/etc.
    Last edited by capceng; August 17th, 2011 at 01:37 PM.
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    Buddhism and the Higgs Boson?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KalapasSo Buddha knew nothing about it. It was a later invention, and disputed by Jainism which had its own system.Anyone can play the number's game. 1 (God) could be reference to 1 Universe; 3 (the Trinity) to number of families of sub-atomic particles; 4 (the Gospels) to number of sub-atomic particles per family; 12 (the Apostles) to the total number of particles. These numbers are repeated many times in the Bible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Could we replace the tired old world religions with another? ...
    As I indicated earlier, RELIGION = THEISM + MANY OTHER THINGS.

    Yes, all components of a religion can be changed, but not suddenly. I believe in needs for such changes.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Could we replace the tired old world religions with another? ...
    As I indicated earlier, RELIGION = THEISM + MANY OTHER THINGS.

    Yes, all components of a religion can be changed, but not suddenly. I believe in needs for such changes.
    .
    I believe in it too. Actually, I started a little sociological experiment related to this idea. I am trying to compile a number of readings from impressive scientific texts (by e.g. Richard Feynman or Lederman & Teresi) into a kind of modern Gospel and attract people to contemplate them on a regular basis. I assume it should give us the blessings of traditional religions (sense of community, sense of some insight into the mysterious and breathtaking truth, without making us too dogmatic and without linking us to evidently outdated philosophical models). I do it as a blog, unfortunately not in English, but if you feel you might suggest some short reading (approx. 2 pages) of impressive popular scientific text from the area of astronomy, physics, biology or other natural science, I'd be really grateful.
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    A rather interesting project, even if it doesn't go further than serve as a personal exploration of your own beliefs and feelings.

    I read The Sacred Depths of Nature by Ursula Goodenough, many years ago who's thoughts resonated with me as I tried to reconcile my objective rejection of faith with my lingering spirituality and emotional constructiveness and awe I felt day-to-day as I learned science.The expressed her feels like this:The realization that I needn't have answers to the Big Questions, needn’t seek answers to the Big Questions has served as an epiphany. I lie on my back under the stars and the unseen galaxies and I let their enormity wash over me. I assimilate the vastness of the distances, the impermanence, the fact of it all. I go all the way out and then I go all the way down, to the fact of photons without mass and gauge bosons that become massless at high temperatures. I take in the abstractions about forces and symmetries and they caress me like Gregorian chants, the meaning of the words not mattering because the words are so haunting. (pulled from Spirituality without Faith). (I still have the book)


    If I settle my mind I easily get that feeling when watching an approaching storm, marvelling at the night sky or even my manx cat, an incredibly well honed 11 pound predator, carefully stalking a young bunny on the other side of the yard. Like the cat is hardwired to learn hunting, I think most humans are hard-wired for spiritual feeling, something I've seen take many forms in my travels about the world including children whiping themselves with chains while marching down the street of Basra Iraq, to monks tending flowers in painstaking care in Thialand. Even in secular societies we need to acknowledge our inherent spirituality--trying to ignore it would be like punishing left handed children.

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    Thanks for the kind word and for the suggestion! I only cannot quite agree with a part of what I found under your link: After all, there is no place to get to, no goal toward which Being is moving.
    Why then, haven't they heard of biogeochemical cycles? Don't they see any progress in history?
    One of the "prophets" in my play/blog - Marcus Tullius Cicero - has the following to say - (if you don't mind my most likely grossly imperfect translation): "Why should then Kamillus feel sorry had he forethought that the present events were to take place after over three hundred and fifty years? and why should I feel sorry if I knew that in ten thousand years some other nation were to occupy our city? Because love towards your motherland is so great that we do not measure it with the duration of our senses, but with the luck of that motherland itself. So death, that due to constant uncertainty threatens us every day, and as a result of limited duration of human life can never be very distant, the prospect of this death will not discourage a wise man from caring about his state and his fellows. It will not sway him from caring about the future, even though he is not going to sense it. Hence, a man who believes that the soul is mortal puts great effort into creating eternal things, not for the desire of fame, which he is not going to enjoy, but for need of perfection, which is followed by fame, even if one does not seek it. "

    From the declaration of my - as for now- single adherent 'sect' :
    Philomaths – Missionaries of the Enlightenment. The essence of the idea
    .................................................. ........................................
    The churches, it seems, must indeed satisfy some genuine needs that are quite commonly felt by their adherents. Maybe therefore, it is worth to look at religious methodology and to use it to spread ideas that would be more rational, reasonable and verifiable? Could it be possible to gather some young persons, that would exercise the vigour and devotion of (e.g.) Jehowa’s witnesses, to spread the knowledge of - for example - modern physics, chemistry or biology? Maybe such volunteers would even be able to invoke contemplation, profound emotion and delight, and even to suggest the ways of decent bahaviour, referring to verifiable scientific facts and logical reasoning only?

    For now all the answers are "no", but maybe one day?
    Last edited by Post_nacz; September 18th, 2011 at 04:35 AM. Reason: spelling
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