Thread: Scientific Debate on New World Order Conspiracies

At present there is mounting evidence that suggests our society is coming to what David Suzuki refers to as a collision with a brick wall. I've been reading a lot about the subject of humanity's struggle against itself, and suggestions as to why this is happening vary immensely. But I've also found that the vast majority of solutions have been presented by scientists!

The realisation of our demise as a culture manifests itself in different ways for different people. Many, particularly internet users, follow the ideology put forward in the "New World Order" conspiracy, that mega-corporations will dominate the world and microchip us all to follow our every move. It seems obvious to me that this theory is impossible due to the limitations of Earth's resources. However I am intrigued by the nature of the theory, as well as the more religious "God v Satan" theory, which ties into the NWO conspiracy and implies the Illuminati (it sounds like a science fiction novel doesn't it) are representatives of Satan.

There must be some sort of evolutionary trait, whether it be a meme or even a gene, that has developed within humans that have led us to propose such ideas. Why did this trait evolve? And will it be selected against? The notion of "good v evil" is a very human concept, maybe it is necessary for this concept to be selected against in order for our species to evolve socially.

As a side note, a lot of new age religions and spiritual ideas involve the year 2012 as a very important stage in human (and Earth's) history. If there are any cosmologists reading this that would like to provide evidence for or against these theories, it would be very interesting. I continue to wonder why 2012 is such a focus. Was the idea merely a chain-reaction, triggered by the Mayan calendar? Or is it something that people genuinely feel?

Of course, we should focus on finding solutions to humanity's current problem, however I feel it is important to understand the problem as well. This thread in this section of the forum intends to understand the nature of our thought in regards to the problem, particularly why so many of us find it hard to see the problem logically (which is why I've posted this in the religion section).

Originally Posted by marley

As a side note, a lot of new age religions and spiritual ideas involve the year 2012 as a very important stage in human (and Earth's) history. If there are any cosmologists reading this that would like to provide evidence for or against these theories, it would be very interesting. I continue to wonder why 2012 is such a focus. Was the idea merely a chain-reaction, triggered by the Mayan calendar? Or is it something that people genuinely feel?

I think they just want an apocalypse. The Y2K thing didn't happen, so they're looking for another. Apocalyptic predictions make life so very simple. You don't have to plan for the long term, worry about global warming, the national debt, or even finishing college.

The Illuminati were only created for the purpose of protecting science and knowledge from the Church during the Rennaisance and Reformation, and I don't see any need for it to exist now.
Also, 2012 was the selected year; as the Sumerians thought a planet, Nerbiru would crash into the Earth and this was also unknowingly related with the end of the long-count mayan calendar. Scientists have proved that 2012 will be as normal as any year and there are no predictions of any abnormal solar activity...Although, solar activity will reach its peak between the time frame 2012-2014 as it always does every 11 years or so.

Originally Posted by marley

Or is it something that people genuinely feel?

It's not just new age religions, Christianity and other religions do the same thing. In fact I'm surprise it hasn't come up in the other thread.

The Y2K thing didn't happen, so they're looking for another.

The Y2K thing was prevented, at considerable effort and expense.

Successful prevention of disaster via reacting competently to warnings of same does not argue for dismissal of similar warnings. Katrina and Fukushima come to mind, as small reminders.

Conspiracy theories that do not require omniscience and planetary scale control of all major events and outcomes by the perps strike me as more worth considering. And the notion that the small and mutually well-acquainted class of the wealthy and powerful in the US could harbor a faction that coordinates their common efforts in pursuit of a more or less hidden common agenda seems actually pretty reasonable. Why wouldn't they?

How odd to see people starting out ready and willing to believe "liberals", gays, feminists, animal rights activists, gun control promoters, blacks, illegal immigrants, labor union members, welfare recipients, and so forth and so on, harbor hidden agendas and concealed or unadmitted motives; and then reacting to the notion that the half dozen wealthy people who spent millions foisting the Tea Party on the US political scene had a hidden agenda as if it were some kind of nutty conspiracy theory.

New World Order conspiracy were mega corporations rule the world ?

Scientificly speaking you should not (fully) dis-miss that theory, let me present some evidence to support it.

There are (2) American billionaires named the Koch brothers. They control Americas present day "tea party." If the Koch brothers want 500 "tea party" members in front of (your) house with signs next week, all they have to do is make a phone call.

American billionaires who are conected to Fox news, can have Fox reporters say any thing they want them to, with one quick phone call.

An example of some of the things these billionaires tell Fox news/ Rush radio to say are,

(their) tax cuts increase government revenues
global warming is not happening
the rich made all the right choices

These same billionaires own all news stations and news papers. (in a way they control everything you see and hear, on radio and TV.)

These same billionaires give our presidential candidates $600 million dollars to run for president.
(what would you do for millions dollars ?)

And when these billionaires dont like a law in congress (they just tell Rush/Fox news to say bad things about it.)
(they implant these thoughts in your head via radio and news.)


I just presented evidence that the New World Order billionaires group can,

Have 500 "tea party" members on your pourch next week with a phone call.

These billionaires can make Fox news and Rush radio (implant any thought in your head they want, via TV and radio.)

And these billionaires gave our president $600 million dollars.
(if someone gave (you) millions of dollars, what would you do for them?)


No there is no brain implant involved in this , but these billionaires have huge power.


Why do they think it?

people hear the above (facts) and their brains, just add a little bit to the story, (maybe something they saw in a movie.) And before you know it, theres micro-chips in brains. Maybe the reason they believe billionaires and mind control theorys, is because these billionaires can already implant any thought in your head they want (it just via TV and radio.)

These billionaires cant control you with a micro chip, (but they have more control of Americas government than all regular Americans put together.)

Originally Posted by iceaura

The Y2K thing didn't happen, so they're looking for another.

The Y2K thing was prevented, at considerable effort and expense.

This is poppycock. I have some knowledge of my company's Y2K program. They found nothing. Zilch, nada, that would have happened in the year 2000. Considerable expense, yes. Prevented anything, definitely not.

Successful prevention of disaster via reacting competently to warnings of same does not argue for dismissal of similar warnings. Katrina and Fukushima come to mind, as small reminders.

Conspiracy theories that do not require omniscience and planetary scale control of all major events and outcomes by the perps strike me as more worth considering. And the notion that the small and mutually well-acquainted class of the wealthy and powerful in the US could harbor a faction that coordinates their common efforts in pursuit of a more or less hidden common agenda seems actually pretty reasonable. Why wouldn't they?

How odd to see people starting out ready and willing to believe "liberals", gays, feminists, animal rights activists, gun control promoters, blacks, illegal immigrants, labor union members, welfare recipients, and so forth and so on, harbor hidden agendas and concealed or unadmitted motives; and then reacting to the notion that the half dozen wealthy people who spent millions foisting the Tea Party on the US political scene had a hidden agenda as if it were some kind of nutty conspiracy theory.

Where is your evidence for a Tea Party conspiracy?

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by iceaura

The Y2K thing didn't happen, so they're looking for another.

The Y2K thing was prevented, at considerable effort and expense.

This is poppycock. I have some knowledge of my company's Y2K program. They found nothing. Zilch, nada, that would have happened in the year 2000. Considerable expense, yes. Prevented anything, definitely not.

So just because your company didn't have any significant issues means no one else did? Isn't that a classic example of the problem with anecdotal evidence?

There were plenty of companies that did have to fix things and, despite that, quite a few problems made news headlines in the years following.

Originally Posted by Strange

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by iceaura

The Y2K thing didn't happen, so they're looking for another.

The Y2K thing was prevented, at considerable effort and expense.

This is poppycock. I have some knowledge of my company's Y2K program. They found nothing. Zilch, nada, that would have happened in the year 2000. Considerable expense, yes. Prevented anything, definitely not.

So just because your company didn't have any significant issues means no one else did? Isn't that a classic example of the problem with anecdotal evidence?

There were plenty of companies that did have to fix things and, despite that, quite a few problems made news headlines in the years following.

Really? What problems?

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Really? What problems?

It seems a bit off topic, but here are a few I found instantly. If it was of any interest or relevance, I'm sure one could find more.

Millennium Bug claims more victims ? The Register
Millennium bug stalls Norwegian trains ? The Register
Down's Syndrome screening failures linked to Y2K bug ? The Register
Avaya settles Y2K case ? The Register
One hundred year old babies found in UK ? The Register
Y2K bug lurking in Microsoft VB, Access ? The Register
Transmeta screws up on Y2K ? Where's Man Friday when you need him? ? The Register

Of course, we can't know whether there would have been more or less problems if everyone had just ignored the whole issue (there were, of course, some problems introduced by people trying to fix potential Y2K problems).

Originally Posted by Strange

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Really? What problems?

It seems a bit off topic, but here are a few I found instantly. If it was of any interest or relevance, I'm sure one could find more.

Millennium Bug claims more victims ? The Register
Millennium bug stalls Norwegian trains ? The Register
Down's Syndrome screening failures linked to Y2K bug ? The Register
Avaya settles Y2K case ? The Register
One hundred year old babies found in UK ? The Register
Y2K bug lurking in Microsoft VB, Access ? The Register
Transmeta screws up on Y2K ? Where's Man Friday when you need him? ? The Register

Of course, we can't know whether there would have been more or less problems if everyone had just ignored the whole issue (there were, of course, some problems introduced by people trying to fix potential Y2K problems).

I am underwhelmed by these examples. There were 300 billion dollars spent on Y2K preparation worldwide. Survivalists were stocking up on supplies. Countries which did relatively little, such as Italy, Russia and China, had no major problems.
Year 2000 problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Harold14370

I am underwhelmed by these examples. There were 300 billion dollars spent on Y2K preparation worldwide. Survivalists were stocking up on supplies. Countries which did relatively little, such as Italy, Russia and China, had no major problems.
Year 2000 problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, as I say we don't know if there would have been more, and more serious, problems if that preventative action hadn't been taken. As that Wikipedia page says, we can never really know "whether the relative absence of computer failures was the result of the preparation undertaken or whether the significance of the problem had been overstated". Personally (based on people I know in IT who fixed some serious problems) I tend to favor the former view. You found no problems so subscribe to the latter.

On conspiracies.

The basic requirements of a conspiracy are that it is a group, maintaining secrecy, and operating towards a plan which requires that secrecy.

A very, very powerful principle is also very simple. No secret can be kept by more than a few people. Researchers in an article I read came up with the 'magic' number 7. If a conspiracy had 7 members, the odds of betrayal of the secret are 50:50. If there are more members, the probability of betrayal rises accordingly.

What this means is that the only successful conspiracies are those with very few members. Large conspiracies self destruct - every time!